LSAT AND GMAT?

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icydash
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Re: LSAT AND GMAT?

Postby icydash » Sat Feb 27, 2010 1:15 am

Ragged wrote:
Cestjustemoi wrote:I agree totally with the posting above this! Many people who down business school and the MBA have never taken a class in their life. An MBA is not a joke degree especially if you concentrate in finance or accounting. Lawyers are taught to be accountants plain and simple.


Yes, but what if you already have an undergrad in accounting/finanace? Is MBA worth it then?


That all depends on your end goal. If your end goal is finance or accounting, then probably not. Though, again, meeting 150+ other accounting/finance MBAs will open up a world of connections/jobs for your future career.

If you think you're going to want to lateral to a management position, or work on startups/do something entrepreneurial, then it's definitely worth it.

On the entrepreneurial side: Unless you have developed an idea, written out a full business plan for it (all the strategy, financials, marketing, etc), had it critiqued by five or six real venture capitalists while doing a live [[real]] pitch, had it critiqued by classmates and professors, tweaked it, gotten funded, dealt with real live investors, prototyped/built your idea, been put in a REAL drivers seat as CEO/COO, and made money for you and your investors.... then the MBA can do a lot for you. I suspect most people have not gone through this process. These classes also consist of case studies, where each case study revolves around a REAL company that actually exists. You have to analyze the corporation as a whole, its progress to date, its leadership, its strategy(s), write lengthy analysis papers and recommendations for the future of the company. Do roughly 24 of these in a semester (just for one class), and you get a much better sense of how to analyze/write business plans, what works, what doesn't, how to analyze and write up realistic financials, how to think so you create realistic & scalable ideas, etc... You also get a great network of other like minded entrepreneurs, connections to venture capitalists... and so on.

If you've got the money to go, I really can't think of a situation where learning more and making many high quality connections would NOT be a good idea.

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JustDude
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Re: LSAT AND GMAT?

Postby JustDude » Sat Feb 27, 2010 3:08 am

On the technical side: Unless you have developed a new rocket, written out a full technical documentation for it (all the engines, fuels, cargo compartment, etc), had it critiqued by five or six real rocket scientists while doing a live [[computer]] simulation, had it critiqued by classmates and professors, tweaked it, gotten funded, dealt with cosmonauts, prototyped/built your rocket, been put in a REAL drivers seat as an astronaut, and made money for you and your investors.... then the Masters in Rocket Sciences can do a lot for you. I suspect most people have not gone through this process. These classes also consist of physics, where each electron revolves around a REAL nucleus that actually exists. You have to analyze the universe as a whole, its progress to date, its leadership, its strategy(s), write lengthy pointless papers and recommendations for the future.

icydash
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Re: LSAT AND GMAT?

Postby icydash » Sat Feb 27, 2010 12:13 pm

JustDude wrote:On the technical side: Unless you have developed a new rocket, written out a full technical documentation for it (all the engines, fuels, cargo compartment, etc), had it critiqued by five or six real rocket scientists while doing a live [[computer]] simulation, had it critiqued by classmates and professors, tweaked it, gotten funded, dealt with cosmonauts, prototyped/built your rocket, been put in a REAL drivers seat as an astronaut, and made money for you and your investors.... then the Masters in Rocket Sciences can do a lot for you. I suspect most people have not gone through this process. These classes also consist of physics, where each electron revolves around a REAL nucleus that actually exists. You have to analyze the universe as a whole, its progress to date, its leadership, its strategy(s), write lengthy pointless papers and recommendations for the future.


While you where trying to make a joke (or possibly saying my description can be used with anything? I'm not entirely sure what the purpose of your post was), all you really did was prove my point. In the curriculum you described, a Masters in Rocket Sciences WOULD do a lot for you, and it WOULD be a good idea to get it if your interests lined up with the curriculum you mentioned. Thanks.

Just because you can apply a tweaked version of my description to anything does not mean it's not still good knowledge to learn. Hell I can write a similar paragraph about law school, but you seem to think that law school is worth going to....

The point was to show that MBA programs do teach real knowledge that 99% of the population does not already have / can't be learned through law school like so many people here seem to think. If you think you may want to go into the business side of things some day, or just want to make a lot of quality connections (in a relevant field of study to what you may use your JD for ie corporate/business law), then the MBA may be for you.

Again, JustDude, i'm not sure what you are trying to show with your previous post, but if you had an interest in Rocket Sciences or Rocket Law, I'd be making the same recommendation for your imaginary ScM program... you haven't really done much but prove my point.

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basicgrey7
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Re: LSAT AND GMAT?

Postby basicgrey7 » Sat Feb 27, 2010 9:00 pm

Underoath wrote:Some guy just told me AFTER I told him I'm studying for the LSAT that he is also studying for the LSAT and that he just took the GMAT.

He said he wants to do a dual degree and either go to Harvard, Stanford, or UCLA.

Is he being honest? I thought for law school you only needed the LSAT.

Thanks


Depends on which school you go to. Some will let you not take the GMAT, but you need the GMAT to qualify for scholarships. You also have the option of applying during 1L for the MBA program.

Cestjustemoi
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Re: LSAT AND GMAT?

Postby Cestjustemoi » Mon Mar 01, 2010 2:33 pm

Ragged wrote:
Cestjustemoi wrote:I agree totally with the posting above this! Many people who down business school and the MBA have never taken a class in their life. An MBA is not a joke degree especially if you concentrate in finance or accounting. Lawyers are taught to be accountants plain and simple.


Yes, but what if you already have an undergrad in accounting/finanace? Is MBA worth it then?


it depends on your end goal, and your preference to school. I wouldn't do it. The only reason I will get my Masters in accounting is because I need it for the CPA and it's less than thirty credits so why the hell not have that extra certification.

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basicgrey7
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Re: LSAT AND GMAT?

Postby basicgrey7 » Mon Mar 01, 2010 8:00 pm

Cestjustemoi wrote:
Ragged wrote:
Cestjustemoi wrote:I agree totally with the posting above this! Many people who down business school and the MBA have never taken a class in their life. An MBA is not a joke degree especially if you concentrate in finance or accounting. Lawyers are taught to be accountants plain and simple.


Yes, but what if you already have an undergrad in accounting/finanace? Is MBA worth it then?


it depends on your end goal, and your preference to school. I wouldn't do it. The only reason I will get my Masters in accounting is because I need it for the CPA and it's less than thirty credits so why the hell not have that extra certification.

The origin of the MBA was not really for business students but has transitioned this way. The MBA started out for professionals such as Doctors, lawyers, etc. who didn't have a business background and wanted to be able to learn how to manage employees.

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Ragged
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Re: LSAT AND GMAT?

Postby Ragged » Tue Mar 02, 2010 1:51 am

basicgrey7 wrote:
Cestjustemoi wrote:
Ragged wrote:
Cestjustemoi wrote:I agree totally with the posting above this! Many people who down business school and the MBA have never taken a class in their life. An MBA is not a joke degree especially if you concentrate in finance or accounting. Lawyers are taught to be accountants plain and simple.


Yes, but what if you already have an undergrad in accounting/finanace? Is MBA worth it then?


it depends on your end goal, and your preference to school. I wouldn't do it. The only reason I will get my Masters in accounting is because I need it for the CPA and it's less than thirty credits so why the hell not have that extra certification.

The origin of the MBA was not really for business students but has transitioned this way. The MBA started out for professionals such as Doctors, lawyers, etc. who didn't have a business background and wanted to be able to learn how to manage employees.



In accounting/finance we don't learn a single thing about managing employees.

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JustDude
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Re: LSAT AND GMAT?

Postby JustDude » Tue Mar 02, 2010 2:58 am

basicgrey7 wrote:
Cestjustemoi wrote:
Ragged wrote:
Cestjustemoi wrote:I agree totally with the posting above this! Many people who down business school and the MBA have never taken a class in their life. An MBA is not a joke degree especially if you concentrate in finance or accounting. Lawyers are taught to be accountants plain and simple.


Yes, but what if you already have an undergrad in accounting/finanace? Is MBA worth it then?


it depends on your end goal, and your preference to school. I wouldn't do it. The only reason I will get my Masters in accounting is because I need it for the CPA and it's less than thirty credits so why the hell not have that extra certification.

The origin of the MBA was not really for business students but has transitioned this way. The MBA started out for professionals such as Doctors, lawyers, etc. who didn't have a business background and wanted to be able to learn how to manage employees.




Sure, get your MBA. Preferable from non Top 10 school. Report how many employees you will manage

icydash
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Re: LSAT AND GMAT?

Postby icydash » Tue Mar 02, 2010 3:05 am

JustDude wrote:Sure, get your MBA. Preferable from non Top 10 school. Report how many employees you will manage


My friend just got her MBA from Montclair in New Jersey. She now manages 13 employees in a sales company. I have two more examples of non-top-10 MBAs doing good things after they get their degree (I only know 5 people who've gotten MBAs, the other two went to a top 10 school). If you want I can share them.

A lot of time people don't get an MBA -until- they are looking at managing a substantial group of people/looking at a promotion and it's mandatory for the position. Sometimes you can even get the company to pay for it for you. In these instances it's more of a career move and the school you go to really doesn't matter (shocking that you can succeed without a top 10 degree!). In fact, since you're working while doing your MBA in these instances typically, it's more preferable to go to a school near where you work, regardless of rank.

I've come to the conclusion after all of this that JustDude, while you may know a lot about law school, you literally have no idea what you're talking about when it comes to MBA programs, what they're like, why people pursue them, and how they can be useful.

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JustDude
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Re: LSAT AND GMAT?

Postby JustDude » Tue Mar 02, 2010 3:14 am

icydash wrote:
My friend just got her MBA from Montclair in New Jersey.


My friend got a girlfriend and he hates that bitch. Lalalalallalalala


icydash wrote:A lot of time people don't get an MBA -until- they are looking at managing a substantial group of people/looking at a promotion and it's mandatory for the position. Sometimes you can even get the company to pay for it for you. In these instances it's more of a career move and the school you go to really doesn't matter (shocking that you can succeed without a top 10 degree!). In fact, since you're working while doing your MBA in these instances typically, it's more preferable to go to a school near where you work, regardless of rank.



Yaha, If your company sponsors your MBA after 10 years of work and will promote you after getting it - Yeah, it happens, and You know, you can hit even DeFry in this situation. However, majority of people attending those schools, kinda screwed.

I know an example from my work - One director went to get a JD and was promoted to VP level and makes 300K. JD was from Golden Gate. But, I hope you are aware of your chances of getting any job after graduating that school if you dont have a prearranged gig.

icydash wrote: I've come to the conclusion after all of this that JustDude, while you may know a lot about law school,


Why do you think I know something about Law School??? Just because I make derisive comments????

icydash
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Re: LSAT AND GMAT?

Postby icydash » Tue Mar 02, 2010 3:21 am

JustDude wrote:
icydash wrote:
My friend just got her MBA from Montclair in New Jersey.


My friend got a girlfriend and he hates that bitch. Lalalalallalalala

This isn't even a derisive comment...in fact...it really has nothing to do with anything what-so-ever...


JustDude wrote:Why do you think I know something about Law School??? Just because I make derisive comments????


Well I was trying to give you the benefit of the doubt that you know something.... :lol: :lol:

Things aren't as top 10 or die as you think. After you get a first job, and work hard/prove yourself, usually your degree granting institution is minimally relevant.

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JustDude
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Re: LSAT AND GMAT?

Postby JustDude » Tue Mar 02, 2010 3:24 am

icydash wrote:
JustDude wrote:
icydash wrote:
My friend just got her MBA from Montclair in New Jersey.


My friend got a girlfriend and he hates that bitch. Lalalalallalalala

This isn't even a derisive comment...in fact...it really has nothing to do with anything what-so-ever...


JustDude wrote:Why do you think I know something about Law School??? Just because I make derisive comments????


Well I was trying to give you the benefit of the doubt that you know something.... :lol: :lol:


I hope it didnt make us friends with benefits.

icydash
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Re: LSAT AND GMAT?

Postby icydash » Tue Mar 02, 2010 3:28 am

JustDude wrote:I hope it didnt make us friends with benefits.


hah i loled at this. well played.

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englawyer
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Re: LSAT AND GMAT?

Postby englawyer » Tue Mar 02, 2010 9:17 am

icydash wrote:
JustDude wrote:Sure, get your MBA. Preferable from non Top 10 school. Report how many employees you will manage


My friend just got her MBA from Montclair in New Jersey. She now manages 13 employees in a sales company. I have two more examples of non-top-10 MBAs doing good things after they get their degree (I only know 5 people who've gotten MBAs, the other two went to a top 10 school). If you want I can share them.

A lot of time people don't get an MBA -until- they are looking at managing a substantial group of people/looking at a promotion and it's mandatory for the position. Sometimes you can even get the company to pay for it for you. In these instances it's more of a career move and the school you go to really doesn't matter (shocking that you can succeed without a top 10 degree!). In fact, since you're working while doing your MBA in these instances typically, it's more preferable to go to a school near where you work, regardless of rank.

I've come to the conclusion after all of this that JustDude, while you may know a lot about law school, you literally have no idea what you're talking about when it comes to MBA programs, what they're like, why people pursue them, and how they can be useful.


that is a viable career path/option. the problem is that you are generally still on the "slow" track if you are relying on an internal promotion. a top MBA will let you get into banking/consulting which will fast track you to higher levels of mgmt down the line.

icydash
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Re: LSAT AND GMAT?

Postby icydash » Tue Mar 02, 2010 12:59 pm

englawyer wrote:
icydash wrote:
JustDude wrote:Sure, get your MBA. Preferable from non Top 10 school. Report how many employees you will manage


My friend just got her MBA from Montclair in New Jersey. She now manages 13 employees in a sales company. I have two more examples of non-top-10 MBAs doing good things after they get their degree (I only know 5 people who've gotten MBAs, the other two went to a top 10 school). If you want I can share them.

A lot of time people don't get an MBA -until- they are looking at managing a substantial group of people/looking at a promotion and it's mandatory for the position. Sometimes you can even get the company to pay for it for you. In these instances it's more of a career move and the school you go to really doesn't matter (shocking that you can succeed without a top 10 degree!). In fact, since you're working while doing your MBA in these instances typically, it's more preferable to go to a school near where you work, regardless of rank.

I've come to the conclusion after all of this that JustDude, while you may know a lot about law school, you literally have no idea what you're talking about when it comes to MBA programs, what they're like, why people pursue them, and how they can be useful.


that is a viable career path/option. the problem is that you are generally still on the "slow" track if you are relying on an internal promotion. a top MBA will let you get into banking/consulting which will fast track you to higher levels of mgmt down the line.


I'm not saying a top MBA isn't better--I'm simply saying you can (and a lot of people do) succeed with lower ranked MBAs.

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englawyer
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Re: LSAT AND GMAT?

Postby englawyer » Tue Mar 02, 2010 1:07 pm

icydash wrote:
I'm not saying a top MBA isn't better--I'm simply saying you can (and a lot of people do) succeed with lower ranked MBAs.


agreed. it is surely a worthwhile investment to pursue, especially if the employer pays for it part-time.

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Kiersten1985
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Re: LSAT AND GMAT?

Postby Kiersten1985 » Tue Mar 02, 2010 1:07 pm

Just Dude returns!! :lol:

CordeliusX
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Re: LSAT AND GMAT?

Postby CordeliusX » Tue Mar 02, 2010 3:55 pm

JustDude wrote:
icydash wrote:
JustDude wrote:JD/MBA. Gotta be the useless degree ever


why is it useless? i've heard a lot of people say different things about it, i'm interested in your take on the joint degree.


No job needs both. If you get a job, you will be using either one or another.

However, it will make you overqualified for that job, and employers are mor likely to go with single degree holder.

If it is not a top school, you will be unemployed regardless wether it is just MBA or JD or JD/MBA combined



Interesting. Is this 100% true? Makes sense to me now actually, but I assumed it was like the "superman" degree combo - you get it and take on the world and kick some ass. I guess it's an all or nothing deal :twisted:

icydash
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Re: LSAT AND GMAT?

Postby icydash » Tue Mar 02, 2010 10:39 pm

CordeliusX wrote:
JustDude wrote:
icydash wrote:
JustDude wrote:JD/MBA. Gotta be the useless degree ever


why is it useless? i've heard a lot of people say different things about it, i'm interested in your take on the joint degree.


No job needs both. If you get a job, you will be using either one or another.

However, it will make you overqualified for that job, and employers are mor likely to go with single degree holder.

If it is not a top school, you will be unemployed regardless wether it is just MBA or JD or JD/MBA combined



Interesting. Is this 100% true? Makes sense to me now actually, but I assumed it was like the "superman" degree combo - you get it and take on the world and kick some ass. I guess it's an all or nothing deal :twisted:


Read the last 3 pages of posts. No, this is not 100%, or even really 70% true.

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englawyer
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Re: LSAT AND GMAT?

Postby englawyer » Tue Mar 02, 2010 11:00 pm

CordeliusX wrote:
JustDude wrote:
icydash wrote:
JustDude wrote:JD/MBA. Gotta be the useless degree ever


why is it useless? i've heard a lot of people say different things about it, i'm interested in your take on the joint degree.


No job needs both. If you get a job, you will be using either one or another.

However, it will make you overqualified for that job, and employers are mor likely to go with single degree holder.

If it is not a top school, you will be unemployed regardless wether it is just MBA or JD or JD/MBA combined



Interesting. Is this 100% true? Makes sense to me now actually, but I assumed it was like the "superman" degree combo - you get it and take on the world and kick some ass. I guess it's an all or nothing deal :twisted:


it is true in the sense that there is not a single job description that requires both the tangible black and white knowledge gained in both programs. however, if we wanted to go strictly by tangible knowledge, no firm would ever hire a YLS grad because the law school is so policy-focused. after all, the grads know hardly anything about "black letter law" so why hire them?

the combo degree is marketable, but the grads are usually hired for their smarts, ambition, brand/pedigree, and well-roundedness rather than their tangible knowledge. a law firm might hire a JD/MBA over a JD because they can convince their clients that the lawyer can understand their business needs from a deeper perspective, even if said lawyer never breaks out excel and does a financial projection. a hedge fund might hire a JD/MBA because they know they are hiring someone with both good business insight and the outstanding analytical perspective of a JD grad.

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JustDude
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Re: LSAT AND GMAT?

Postby JustDude » Wed Mar 03, 2010 2:26 am

englawyer wrote:
it is true in the sense that there is not a single job description that requires both the tangible black and white knowledge gained in both programs. however, if we wanted to go strictly by tangible knowledge, no firm would ever hire a YLS grad because the law school is so policy-focused. after all, the grads know hardly anything about "black letter law" so why hire them?

the combo degree is marketable, but the grads are usually hired for their smarts, ambition, brand/pedigree, and well-roundedness rather than their tangible knowledge. a law firm might hire a JD/MBA over a JD because they can convince their clients that the lawyer can understand their business needs from a deeper perspective, even if said lawyer never breaks out excel and does a financial projection. a hedge fund might hire a JD/MBA because they know they are hiring someone with both good business insight and the outstanding analytical perspective of a JD grad.




Thats stupid. Period. Prove bolded.

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JustDude
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Re: LSAT AND GMAT?

Postby JustDude » Wed Mar 03, 2010 2:30 am

icydash wrote:Read the last 3 pages of posts. No, this is not 100%, or even really 70% true.


You need to look deep inside yourself. You only defend this idiocy because you want to get this degree. This gives you the false sense of security and you enjoy it. But you will be facing consequenses 4 years later. You still will be decieving yourself doing doc review that MBA helped you, but not for long.

icydash
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Re: LSAT AND GMAT?

Postby icydash » Wed Mar 03, 2010 2:34 am

JustDude wrote:
icydash wrote:Read the last 3 pages of posts. No, this is not 100%, or even really 70% true.


You need to look deep inside yourself. You only defend this idiocy because you want to get this degree. This gives you the false sense of security and you enjoy it. But you will be facing consequenses 4 years later. You still will be decieving yourself doing doc review that MBA helped you, but not for long.


No. You simply don't understand that not everyone wants to use a JD for law and doc review. Some people will use their JD in new and exciting ways (omigosh!) and the MBA could really come in handy. You think way too narrowly as your previous posts have shown. You think JD = must do law = never anything else/no deviation from strictly practicing law = never any use for an MBA. In real life, there are a lot of kinks in that chain and people take different routes.

And you make it sound like people do doc review for ever. Eventually you move up, interact with clients, etc... maybe even move towards the business side of things...THAT's when the MBA could help you. Or maybe you skip doc review all together and begin your own firm (a business!). Again, lots of different paths to practicing law. It's not as black and white as you seem to think.

By the way, you have said time and time again that it's NOT useful without providing any evidence to back up anything you're saying. Literally 0 evidence has been shown to back up anything you've said on this entire thread, where again and again I've provided examples to the contrary. You clearly are speaking from no experience in this matter and no data...just an opinion. Spare us all it.
Last edited by icydash on Wed Mar 03, 2010 2:39 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PDaddy
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Re: LSAT AND GMAT?

Postby PDaddy » Wed Mar 03, 2010 2:38 am

r6_philly wrote:You need other tests for the dual degree. Second degree usually has its own admissions procedure which may require other grad admission tests.


Correct...except for Northwestern which allows you to enter its JD/MBA with just the GMAT. You must interview for both the law school and b-school though. But it's nice not to have to take the LSAT. And it's a 3-year JD/MBA.

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JustDude
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Re: LSAT AND GMAT?

Postby JustDude » Wed Mar 03, 2010 4:17 am

icydash wrote:
JustDude wrote:
icydash wrote:Read the last 3 pages of posts. No, this is not 100%, or even really 70% true.


You need to look deep inside yourself. You only defend this idiocy because you want to get this degree. This gives you the false sense of security and you enjoy it. But you will be facing consequenses 4 years later. You still will be decieving yourself doing doc review that MBA helped you, but not for long.


No. You simply don't understand that not everyone wants to use a JD for law and doc review. Some people will use their JD in new and exciting ways (omigosh!) and the MBA could really come in handy. You think way too narrowly as your previous posts have shown. You think JD = must do law = never anything else/no deviation from strictly practicing law = never any use for an MBA. In real life, there are a lot of kinks in that chain and people take different routes.

And you make it sound like people do doc review for ever. Eventually you move up, interact with clients, etc... maybe even move towards the business side of things...THAT's when the MBA could help you. Or maybe you skip doc review all together and begin your own firm (a business!). Again, lots of different paths to practicing law. It's not as black and white as you seem to think.

By the way, you have said time and time again that it's NOT useful without providing any evidence to back up anything you're saying. Literally 0 evidence has been shown to back up anything you've said on this entire thread, where again and again I've provided examples to the contrary. You clearly are speaking from no experience in this matter and no data...just an opinion. Spare us all it.




Dude, Can I post this on JDU???.. Man, that would be trollism in style.


Also, I didnt say you should not go into business law with JD. I just said you dont really need JD/MBA degree.




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