Why do Third Tier and Fourth Tier Law Schools even exist?

(Applications Advice, Letters of Recommendation . . . )
kilgore_trout
Posts: 27
Joined: Sun Dec 06, 2009 2:58 am

Re: Why do Third Tier and Fourth Tier Law Schools even exist?

Postby kilgore_trout » Fri Apr 30, 2010 10:59 am

rad law wrote:
rbgrocio wrote:The key is to set yourself apart (get a good GPA, beat that 2.4-2.6 curve, do law review, moot court, etc)


Too bad everyone wants that, but not everyone can achieve that result, thanks to a curve and limited lr and moot court spots. I still maintain that one should not go anywhere where he/she would not be happy at the median.


I have a firm policy to not take advice from people wearing pink shirts and/or douchey sunglasses.

User avatar
whuts4lunch
Posts: 391
Joined: Fri Feb 06, 2009 3:54 pm

Re: Why do Third Tier and Fourth Tier Law Schools even exist?

Postby whuts4lunch » Fri Apr 30, 2010 11:03 am

rad law wrote:
rbgrocio wrote:The key is to set yourself apart (get a good GPA, beat that 2.4-2.6 curve, do law review, moot court, etc)


Too bad everyone wants that, but not everyone can achieve that result, thanks to a curve and limited lr and moot court spots. I still maintain that one should not go anywhere where he/she would not be happy at the median.


Disagree. A student who receives a large scholarship at a school has a rational expectation to rank above the median. Scholarship students disproportionately place well.

User avatar
legalease9
Posts: 623
Joined: Tue Mar 23, 2010 8:41 pm

Re: Why do Third Tier and Fourth Tier Law Schools even exist?

Postby legalease9 » Fri Apr 30, 2010 11:05 am

shutterbug wrote:This may be tough for most on TLS to believe, perhaps it is because money is not the only reason people want to become lawyers?

User avatar
General Tso
Posts: 2289
Joined: Sun Dec 07, 2008 6:51 pm

Re: Why do Third Tier and Fourth Tier Law Schools even exist?

Postby General Tso » Fri Apr 30, 2010 11:08 am

legalease9 wrote:
shutterbug wrote:This may be tough for most on TLS to believe, perhaps it is because money is not the only reason people want to become lawyers?


Oh please. I'd be willing to bet the number of people interested in public interest at T3/T4 schools (at least at the time they enroll) is probably about the same as it is at a T1 school. Most of them see Cooley's 80k average salary claims and think that's what they are about to get.

User avatar
Grizz
Posts: 10583
Joined: Mon Jan 04, 2010 6:31 pm

Re: Why do Third Tier and Fourth Tier Law Schools even exist?

Postby Grizz » Fri Apr 30, 2010 11:12 am

whuts4lunch wrote:
rad law wrote:
rbgrocio wrote:The key is to set yourself apart (get a good GPA, beat that 2.4-2.6 curve, do law review, moot court, etc)


Too bad everyone wants that, but not everyone can achieve that result, thanks to a curve and limited lr and moot court spots. I still maintain that one should not go anywhere where he/she would not be happy at the median.


Disagree. A student who receives a large scholarship at a school has a rational expectation to rank above the median. Scholarship students disproportionately place well.


Tell that to the people who lose their scholarships because of GPA requirements. Law school exams are totally a different animal. I would actually break from the TLS wisdom and agree somewhat with you, that it matters in an incredibly general sense, but still nothing I'd make a decision by.

User avatar
Grizz
Posts: 10583
Joined: Mon Jan 04, 2010 6:31 pm

Re: Why do Third Tier and Fourth Tier Law Schools even exist?

Postby Grizz » Fri Apr 30, 2010 11:14 am

legalease9 wrote:
shutterbug wrote:This may be tough for most on TLS to believe, perhaps it is because money is not the only reason people want to become lawyers?


But I don't think anyone wants massive debt for mediocre or just plain bad job prospects, which is what you'll get from a lot of TTT schools.

Take that back - some people on TLS always think it's a decent idea.

acdisagod
Posts: 431
Joined: Fri Oct 16, 2009 12:46 pm

Re: Why do Third Tier and Fourth Tier Law Schools even exist?

Postby acdisagod » Fri Apr 30, 2010 11:15 am

rad law wrote:
elkapitan87 wrote:My Dad went to a third tier law school, but was able to build a very successful private practice over 15 years. he couldn't land a job at a firm, had to start from scratch, but it worked out pretty well. big law may be out of the question, but for those going to T3 schools and even T4 schools you are not precluded from making big money in the end. You'll just have to do it on your own terms. I'm from a big legal market city and the majority of the lawyers who have their own small firms, some who make seven figures, went to T3 and T4 schools. the school doesn't make the lawyer, it just opens up doors for them.


While your dad succeeded, how many of his TTT colleagues in the sames situation left the law altogether? The rate of failure for small businesses in 90%. Also keep in mind the market wasn't as crowded for new lawyers when you dad was making his bones.

TTT is not a good idea, generally, unless it truly dominates a region or is really cheap.


+1

In no way am I trying to be elitist because a third tier schol CAN be a good choice. However, given that there are 43,000 students graduating law school this year and that there are only 30,000 legal jobs availible, a large percentage of TTT graduates are going to be screwed. Twenty five percent of law school graduates will not get a job as a lawyer their first year out of law school.

User avatar
rbgrocio
Posts: 560
Joined: Wed Dec 10, 2008 7:58 pm

Re: Why do Third Tier and Fourth Tier Law Schools even exist?

Postby rbgrocio » Fri Apr 30, 2010 11:15 am

rad law wrote:
rbgrocio wrote:The key is to set yourself apart (get a good GPA, beat that 2.4-2.6 curve, do law review, moot court, etc)


Too bad everyone wants that, but not everyone can achieve that result, thanks to a curve and limited lr and moot court spots. I still maintain that one should not go anywhere where he/she would not be happy at the median.



Well... I was talking about my personal experience. I have worked hard to place myself among those at the top of the class, and really to stay and work in Miami FIU is a great option. I go to school for free, I get good grades and I am happy with not making as much money as most people here want to make. And while I agree the statistics are not extremely telling, the average would not be 75k if that many people worked in MCdonalds making 7.15 an hour, which is minimum wage around here.

There is quite a few people in my class who want to have money to purchase expensive cars (audi, mercedes, bmw), spend money in fancy purses and want to live a luxurious life. I'm happy with a honda, a house in the suburbs where to spend my life with my husband and future kids and a dog, make barbecues on Sundays and have a little bit left to travel every now and then and help my parents when they are older. I have never spent more than 30 dollars in a purse and to me all that junk really doesn't matter. 75 k would go a long way for me.

User avatar
Grizz
Posts: 10583
Joined: Mon Jan 04, 2010 6:31 pm

Re: Why do Third Tier and Fourth Tier Law Schools even exist?

Postby Grizz » Fri Apr 30, 2010 11:16 am

kilgore_trout wrote:
rad law wrote:
rbgrocio wrote:The key is to set yourself apart (get a good GPA, beat that 2.4-2.6 curve, do law review, moot court, etc)


Too bad everyone wants that, but not everyone can achieve that result, thanks to a curve and limited lr and moot court spots. I still maintain that one should not go anywhere where he/she would not be happy at the median.


I have a firm policy to not take advice from people wearing pink shirts and/or douchey sunglasses.


Then don't take it and enjoy your TTT I guess.

User avatar
rbgrocio
Posts: 560
Joined: Wed Dec 10, 2008 7:58 pm

Re: Why do Third Tier and Fourth Tier Law Schools even exist?

Postby rbgrocio » Fri Apr 30, 2010 11:19 am

whuts4lunch wrote:
rad law wrote:
rbgrocio wrote:The key is to set yourself apart (get a good GPA, beat that 2.4-2.6 curve, do law review, moot court, etc)


Too bad everyone wants that, but not everyone can achieve that result, thanks to a curve and limited lr and moot court spots. I still maintain that one should not go anywhere where he/she would not be happy at the median.


Disagree. A student who receives a large scholarship at a school has a rational expectation to rank above the median. Scholarship students disproportionately place well.



I know effort is not everything and that there is some talent that goes into getting good grades, but I do not see anyone at the bottom of my class at school every morning at 6 a.m. Most of them rely on supplements and do not brief their own cases. They do not do the readings and are too busy being on facebook to care about doing well... Really, if you put effort you can go a long way in law school. English is not even my first language. In fact, I learned how to speak English four years ago. I think that some people are just not willing to put the effort that takes to do well in a crappy school.

User avatar
Grizz
Posts: 10583
Joined: Mon Jan 04, 2010 6:31 pm

Re: Why do Third Tier and Fourth Tier Law Schools even exist?

Postby Grizz » Fri Apr 30, 2010 11:21 am

rbgrocio wrote:
rad law wrote:
rbgrocio wrote:The key is to set yourself apart (get a good GPA, beat that 2.4-2.6 curve, do law review, moot court, etc)


Too bad everyone wants that, but not everyone can achieve that result, thanks to a curve and limited lr and moot court spots. I still maintain that one should not go anywhere where he/she would not be happy at the median.



Well... I was talking about my personal experience. I have worked hard to place myself among those at the top of the class, and really to stay and work in Miami FIU is a great option. I go to school for free, I get good grades and I am happy with not making as much money as most people here want to make. And while I agree the statistics are not extremely telling, the average would not be 75k if that many people worked in MCdonalds making 7.15 an hour, which is minimum wage around here.

There is quite a few people in my class who want to have money to purchase expensive cars (audi, mercedes, bmw), spend money in fancy purses and want to live a luxurious life. I'm happy with a honda, a house in the suburbs where to spend my life with my husband and future kids and a dog, make barbecues on Sundays and have a little bit left to travel every now and then and help my parents when they are older. I have never spent more than 30 dollars in a purse and to me all that junk really doesn't matter. 75 k would go a long way for me.


Actually your situation is one where a TTT could be a reasonable choice. No debt is a beautiful thing. It's the mountains of debt for lower job prospects is what people get all up in arms about.

User avatar
General Tso
Posts: 2289
Joined: Sun Dec 07, 2008 6:51 pm

Re: Why do Third Tier and Fourth Tier Law Schools even exist?

Postby General Tso » Fri Apr 30, 2010 11:24 am

rbgrocio wrote:
I know effort is not everything and that there is some talent that goes into getting good grades, but I do not see anyone at the bottom of my class at school every morning at 6 a.m. Most of them rely on supplements and do not brief their own cases. They do not do the readings and are too busy being on facebook to care about doing well... Really, if you put effort you can go a long way in law school. English is not even my first language. In fact, I learned how to speak English four years ago. I think that some people are just not willing to put the effort that takes to do well in a crappy school.


how do you know so much about the people at the bottom of your class? I rely on supplements, don't brief my own cases, and I've done pretty well so far, well above median to say the least. oh and just because you don't see effort out of people (at the library or whatever) doesn't mean it isn't there...I for one do all my studying at home

hell I don't even do my own outlines..just use old ones

User avatar
legalease9
Posts: 623
Joined: Tue Mar 23, 2010 8:41 pm

Re: Why do Third Tier and Fourth Tier Law Schools even exist?

Postby legalease9 » Fri Apr 30, 2010 11:32 am

General Tso wrote:
legalease9 wrote:
shutterbug wrote:This may be tough for most on TLS to believe, perhaps it is because money is not the only reason people want to become lawyers?


Oh please. I'd be willing to bet the number of people interested in public interest at T3/T4 schools (at least at the time they enroll) is probably about the same as it is at a T1 school. Most of them see Cooley's 80k average salary claims and think that's what they are about to get.


I, at least, wasn't referring just to PI. I'm thinking about people who want to practice law because thats what they want for a career. They go to the T3/T4 schools because they have no other choice (or the money's really good) and they actually want to practice law. Now there are also probably many T3/T4 individuals attending because the schools trick them into thinking they have prospects when they don't. For these people, they shouldn't go.

kilgore_trout
Posts: 27
Joined: Sun Dec 06, 2009 2:58 am

Re: Why do Third Tier and Fourth Tier Law Schools even exist?

Postby kilgore_trout » Fri Apr 30, 2010 11:44 am

rad law wrote:
kilgore_trout wrote:
rad law wrote:
rbgrocio wrote:The key is to set yourself apart (get a good GPA, beat that 2.4-2.6 curve, do law review, moot court, etc)


Too bad everyone wants that, but not everyone can achieve that result, thanks to a curve and limited lr and moot court spots. I still maintain that one should not go anywhere where he/she would not be happy at the median.


I have a firm policy to not take advice from people wearing pink shirts and/or douchey sunglasses.


Then don't take it and enjoy your TTT I guess.


Thank you.

I hope you enjoy your spray tan and popping your collar.

User avatar
Grizz
Posts: 10583
Joined: Mon Jan 04, 2010 6:31 pm

Re: Why do Third Tier and Fourth Tier Law Schools even exist?

Postby Grizz » Fri Apr 30, 2010 11:48 am

kilgore_trout wrote:Thank you.

I hope you enjoy your spray tan and popping your collar.


I'm not from Jersey, but nice try. Get your subcultures straight.

kilgore_trout
Posts: 27
Joined: Sun Dec 06, 2009 2:58 am

Re: Why do Third Tier and Fourth Tier Law Schools even exist?

Postby kilgore_trout » Fri Apr 30, 2010 11:59 am

rad law wrote:
kilgore_trout wrote:Thank you.

I hope you enjoy your spray tan and popping your collar.


I'm not from Jersey, but nice try. Get your subcultures straight.


Frat boys with low self-esteem also do this, so I think I've got my subcultures dead on.

User avatar
stintez
Posts: 307
Joined: Fri Apr 02, 2010 12:55 pm

Re: Why do Third Tier and Fourth Tier Law Schools even exist?

Postby stintez » Fri Apr 30, 2010 12:00 pm

Dear half tard

FYI a 155 wont get you into any top 14 school. Moreover, some people go to third and fourth tier schools because its a little something called a full ride. What's more my friend graduated from a fourth tier school and he has his own firm and his very own 350k house and his very own 2008 M3. Just thought I'd enlighten you. :mrgreen:

User avatar
Grizz
Posts: 10583
Joined: Mon Jan 04, 2010 6:31 pm

Re: Why do Third Tier and Fourth Tier Law Schools even exist?

Postby Grizz » Fri Apr 30, 2010 12:04 pm

kilgore_trout wrote:
rad law wrote:
kilgore_trout wrote:Thank you.

I hope you enjoy your spray tan and popping your collar.


I'm not from Jersey, but nice try. Get your subcultures straight.


Frat boys with low self-esteem also do this, so I think I've got my subcultures dead on.


I foresee lawl school going badly for you.

kilgore_trout
Posts: 27
Joined: Sun Dec 06, 2009 2:58 am

Re: Why do Third Tier and Fourth Tier Law Schools even exist?

Postby kilgore_trout » Fri Apr 30, 2010 12:05 pm

rad law wrote:
kilgore_trout wrote:
rad law wrote:
kilgore_trout wrote:Thank you.

I hope you enjoy your spray tan and popping your collar.


I'm not from Jersey, but nice try. Get your subcultures straight.


Frat boys with low self-esteem also do this, so I think I've got my subcultures dead on.


I foresee lawl school going badly for you.


I forsee life going badly for you - unless you count beer pong as a success. Then you probably win.

User avatar
shepdawg
Posts: 477
Joined: Thu Sep 10, 2009 8:00 pm

Re: Why do Third Tier and Fourth Tier Law Schools even exist?

Postby shepdawg » Fri Apr 30, 2010 12:11 pm

stintez wrote:Dear half tard

FYI a 155 wont get you into any top 14 school. Moreover, some people go to third and fourth tier schools because its a little something called a full ride. What's more my friend graduated from a fourth tier school and he has his own firm and his very own 350k house and his very own 2008 M3. Just thought I'd enlighten you. :mrgreen:

I had that stuff as a teacher. Why is that something to brag about.

User avatar
stintez
Posts: 307
Joined: Fri Apr 02, 2010 12:55 pm

Re: Why do Third Tier and Fourth Tier Law Schools even exist?

Postby stintez » Fri Apr 30, 2010 12:28 pm

shepdawg wrote:
stintez wrote:Dear half tard

FYI a 155 wont get you into any top 14 school. Moreover, some people go to third and fourth tier schools because its a little something called a full ride. What's more my friend graduated from a fourth tier school and he has his own firm and his very own 350k house and his very own 2008 M3. Just thought I'd enlighten you. :mrgreen:

I had that stuff as a teacher. Why is that something to brag about.


damn I guess you saved tooth and nail I was not aware high school teachers could afford all that considering when they were brand new they cost 56k+. Also he is only 32 and has two kids and a wife. In either case good job.

User avatar
1ferret!
Posts: 280
Joined: Thu Oct 22, 2009 4:59 am

Re: Why do Third Tier and Fourth Tier Law Schools even exist?

Postby 1ferret! » Fri Apr 30, 2010 12:30 pm

You can still buy a house for 350k?

User avatar
Shot007
Posts: 96
Joined: Fri Dec 05, 2008 1:46 pm

Re: Why do Third Tier and Fourth Tier Law Schools even exist?

Postby Shot007 » Fri Apr 30, 2010 12:35 pm

So then what would everyone say are the most useful 3/4th tier schools
Vermont
Howard?

jdhonest
Posts: 138
Joined: Sun Mar 07, 2010 11:31 pm

Re: Why do Third Tier and Fourth Tier Law Schools even exist?

Postby jdhonest » Fri Apr 30, 2010 12:38 pm

stintez wrote:Dear half tard

FYI a 155 wont get you into any top 14 school. Moreover, some people go to third and fourth tier schools because its a little something called a full ride. What's more my friend graduated from a fourth tier school and he has his own firm and his very own 350k house and his very own 2008 M3. Just thought I'd enlighten you. :mrgreen:


Is he hiring interns for the summer? I can pm you my resume.

User avatar
stintez
Posts: 307
Joined: Fri Apr 02, 2010 12:55 pm

Re: Why do Third Tier and Fourth Tier Law Schools even exist?

Postby stintez » Fri Apr 30, 2010 12:43 pm

1ferret! wrote:You can still buy a house for 350k?


live in the Midwest so yes and its a four bedroom two and half bath.




Return to “Law School Admissions Forum”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], Thewanderer and 1 guest