Why do Third Tier and Fourth Tier Law Schools even exist?

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qualster
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Re: Why do Third Tier and Fourth Tier Law Schools even exist?

Postby qualster » Thu Feb 18, 2010 11:50 pm

BruceBarr wrote:
qualster wrote:
I feel kind of bad that my Us vs. Canada comparison caused a heated disagreement.

I'm thinking that the population density difference, while certainly a factor to consider, shouldn't be a good enough reason for there to be such a disparity.



Welcome to TLS when kids quote wiki sites.


Well, I think that the per capita comparison certainly should give the ABA pause. We probably don't need so many attorneys. I would hate do deny a 3.0, 150 candidate his/her dream, but we have a ton of lawyers, and far more per capita than our friendlier, better looking neighbors to the North. Maybe they amicably resolve problems more easily because they are better looking on average, and here, cases take longer due to the fact that we find each other to be unattractive. The lengthier process would require more attorneys. Solved. Somebody give me a Pulitzer or a Peabody or at the very least a high five.

scionb4
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Re: Why do Third Tier and Fourth Tier Law Schools even exist?

Postby scionb4 » Thu Feb 18, 2010 11:52 pm

Because contrary to what the overtly competitive people on this website say, you can in fact get a job if you don't get in the 160's on your LSAT, get into a top 30 law school, and finish in the top 10% of your class. A lot of tier 3 schools have strong regional ties, so people are able to get decent jobs in the area near their school. Northern Illinois has ties to the Illinois Prosecutor's office, Valparaiso has the Northwest Indiana market cornered, South Texas has phenominal job prospects in the city of Houston considering its rank, the list goes on. Its a myth that it's top of the food chain or nothing. It's just a lot harder, especially right now, to get a job at a school like that if you don't do really well. Also, a lot of tier 3 and 4 schools cater to working professionals who go parttime. The higher ranked you go, the less likely the school is to have a part-time program, the exception being GULC.

sibley
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Re: Why do Third Tier and Fourth Tier Law Schools even exist?

Postby sibley » Thu Feb 18, 2010 11:54 pm

scionb4 wrote:Because contrary to what the overtly competitive people on this website say, you can in fact get a job if you don't get in the 160's on your LSAT, get into a top 30 law school, and finish in the top 10% of your class. A lot of tier 3 schools have strong regional ties, so people are able to get decent jobs in the area near their school. Northern Illinois has ties to the Illinois Prosecutor's office, Valparaiso has the Northwest Indiana market cornered, South Texas has phenominal job prospects in the city of Houston considering its rank, the list goes on. Its a myth that it's top of the food chain or nothing. It's just a lot harder, especially right now, to get a job at a school like that if you don't do really well. Also, a lot of tier 3 and 4 schools cater to working professionals who go parttime. The higher ranked you go, the less likely the school is to have a part-time program, the exception being GULC.


you, my little toyota subpart, are being quite refreshing currently.

scionb4
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Re: Why do Third Tier and Fourth Tier Law Schools even exist?

Postby scionb4 » Thu Feb 18, 2010 11:56 pm

sibley wrote:
scionb4 wrote:Because contrary to what the overtly competitive people on this website say, you can in fact get a job if you don't get in the 160's on your LSAT, get into a top 30 law school, and finish in the top 10% of your class. A lot of tier 3 schools have strong regional ties, so people are able to get decent jobs in the area near their school. Northern Illinois has ties to the Illinois Prosecutor's office, Valparaiso has the Northwest Indiana market cornered, South Texas has phenominal job prospects in the city of Houston considering its rank, the list goes on. Its a myth that it's top of the food chain or nothing. It's just a lot harder, especially right now, to get a job at a school like that if you don't do really well. Also, a lot of tier 3 and 4 schools cater to working professionals who go parttime. The higher ranked you go, the less likely the school is to have a part-time program, the exception being GULC.


you, my little toyota subpart, are being quite refreshing currently.


Compliment or insult?

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BruceBarr
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Re: Why do Third Tier and Fourth Tier Law Schools even exist?

Postby BruceBarr » Thu Feb 18, 2010 11:57 pm




So you have 50 million extra people outside of the urban... and 220 million more people inside the urban areas. So back to the original point... we have MORE urban areas. That's why we have more attorneys. Where does this get difficult?

and make it quick cause this thread is getting shut down any minute

sibley
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Re: Why do Third Tier and Fourth Tier Law Schools even exist?

Postby sibley » Thu Feb 18, 2010 11:58 pm

scionb4 wrote:
sibley wrote:
scionb4 wrote:Because contrary to what the overtly competitive people on this website say, you can in fact get a job if you don't get in the 160's on your LSAT, get into a top 30 law school, and finish in the top 10% of your class. A lot of tier 3 schools have strong regional ties, so people are able to get decent jobs in the area near their school. Northern Illinois has ties to the Illinois Prosecutor's office, Valparaiso has the Northwest Indiana market cornered, South Texas has phenominal job prospects in the city of Houston considering its rank, the list goes on. Its a myth that it's top of the food chain or nothing. It's just a lot harder, especially right now, to get a job at a school like that if you don't do really well. Also, a lot of tier 3 and 4 schools cater to working professionals who go parttime. The higher ranked you go, the less likely the school is to have a part-time program, the exception being GULC.


you, my little toyota subpart, are being quite refreshing currently.


Compliment or insult?


=/ did you feel insulted? meant to just be a statement of fact. to me... refreshing = good.

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BruceBarr
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Re: Why do Third Tier and Fourth Tier Law Schools even exist?

Postby BruceBarr » Thu Feb 18, 2010 11:58 pm

How many major ubran areas in the U.S. vs. Canada.

I;m kind of getting over this... so wiki that and you'll have your answer.

AffirmativeOffense
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Re: Why do Third Tier and Fourth Tier Law Schools even exist?

Postby AffirmativeOffense » Fri Feb 19, 2010 12:00 am

BruceBarr wrote:



So you have 50 million extra people outside of the urban... and 220 million more people inside the urban areas. So back to the original point... we have MORE urban areas. That's why we have more attorneys. Where does this get difficult?

and make it quick cause this thread is getting shut down any minute


This is on a per capita basis and the urbanization rates are nearly identical. I cannot believe you are going to law school.

EDIT: This has got to be the single dumbest exchange I've ever had with someone who is supposedly intelligent. For the sake of this thread, I'm not responding anymore.
Last edited by AffirmativeOffense on Fri Feb 19, 2010 12:04 am, edited 1 time in total.

scionb4
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Re: Why do Third Tier and Fourth Tier Law Schools even exist?

Postby scionb4 » Fri Feb 19, 2010 12:01 am

sibley wrote:
scionb4 wrote:
sibley wrote:
scionb4 wrote:Because contrary to what the overtly competitive people on this website say, you can in fact get a job if you don't get in the 160's on your LSAT, get into a top 30 law school, and finish in the top 10% of your class. A lot of tier 3 schools have strong regional ties, so people are able to get decent jobs in the area near their school. Northern Illinois has ties to the Illinois Prosecutor's office, Valparaiso has the Northwest Indiana market cornered, South Texas has phenominal job prospects in the city of Houston considering its rank, the list goes on. Its a myth that it's top of the food chain or nothing. It's just a lot harder, especially right now, to get a job at a school like that if you don't do really well. Also, a lot of tier 3 and 4 schools cater to working professionals who go parttime. The higher ranked you go, the less likely the school is to have a part-time program, the exception being GULC.


you, my little toyota subpart, are being quite refreshing currently.


Compliment or insult?


=/ did you feel insulted? meant to just be a statement of fact. to me... refreshing = good.


I was just confused about the "Toyota Subpart" thing. I actually Googled that to see what you meant.

sibley
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Re: Why do Third Tier and Fourth Tier Law Schools even exist?

Postby sibley » Fri Feb 19, 2010 12:01 am

AffirmativeOffense wrote:
BruceBarr wrote:



So you have 50 million extra people outside of the urban... and 220 million more people inside the urban areas. So back to the original point... we have MORE urban areas. That's why we have more attorneys. Where does this get difficult?

and make it quick cause this thread is getting shut down any minute


This is on a per capita basis and the urbanization rates are nearly identical. I cannot believe you are going to law school.


please don't unleash your wrath/ clicking black smoke... but are you canadian? if said, I missed.

sibley
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Re: Why do Third Tier and Fourth Tier Law Schools even exist?

Postby sibley » Fri Feb 19, 2010 12:02 am

scionb4 wrote:
sibley wrote:
scionb4 wrote:
sibley wrote:you, my little toyota subpart, are being quite refreshing currently.


Compliment or insult?


=/ did you feel insulted? meant to just be a statement of fact. to me... refreshing = good.


I was just confused about the "Toyota Subpart" thing. I actually Googled that to see what you meant.


oh! I'm in a weird mood and am giving people slightly statistically-incorrect nicknames based on their sns.


...I heart you.
--ImageRemoved--
Last edited by sibley on Fri Feb 19, 2010 12:07 am, edited 1 time in total.

scionb4
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Re: Why do Third Tier and Fourth Tier Law Schools even exist?

Postby scionb4 » Fri Feb 19, 2010 12:07 am

oh! I'm in a weird mood and am giving people slightly statistically-incorrect nicknames based on their sns.


...I heart you.
[/quote]


Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh - now I get it. Now can you be really clever and figure out the second part of my profile name?

sibley
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Re: Why do Third Tier and Fourth Tier Law Schools even exist?

Postby sibley » Fri Feb 19, 2010 12:08 am

scionb4 wrote:Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh - now I get it. Now can you be really clever and figure out the second part of my profile name?



audi a6!
...I have wiki'd the history of scion and have given up.
Last edited by sibley on Fri Feb 19, 2010 12:10 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Doritos
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Re: Why do Third Tier and Fourth Tier Law Schools even exist?

Postby Doritos » Fri Feb 19, 2010 12:10 am

This thread has deteriorated greatly

sibley
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Re: Why do Third Tier and Fourth Tier Law Schools even exist?

Postby sibley » Fri Feb 19, 2010 12:11 am

Doritos wrote:This thread has deteriorated greatly


you've deteriorated greatly.


...kind of like when I was little and my friends and I used to take turns sitting on you because we liked to eat you in little bitty pieces.

scionb4
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Re: Why do Third Tier and Fourth Tier Law Schools even exist?

Postby scionb4 » Fri Feb 19, 2010 12:14 am

sibley wrote:
scionb4 wrote:Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh - now I get it. Now can you be really clever and figure out the second part of my profile name?



audi a6!
...I have wiki'd the history of scion and have given up.


I'm a huge nerd - when I was in high school, my dad let me drive his scion a lot. Then, I saw Star Trek Nemesis, and I liked the B4 character, I thought it was an amusingly cheesy joke. So, I made a lot of my online profiles and my email address ScionB4. Nerd alert, I know.

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Doritos
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Re: Why do Third Tier and Fourth Tier Law Schools even exist?

Postby Doritos » Fri Feb 19, 2010 12:14 am

sibley wrote:
Doritos wrote:This thread has deteriorated greatly


you've deteriorated greatly.


...kind of like when I was little and my friends and I used to take turns sitting on you because we liked to eat you in little bitty pieces.


i personally like to keep my ass as far away from my food as possible. its a personal preference though

sibley
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Re: Why do Third Tier and Fourth Tier Law Schools even exist?

Postby sibley » Fri Feb 19, 2010 12:16 am

Doritos wrote:
sibley wrote:
Doritos wrote:This thread has deteriorated greatly


you've deteriorated greatly.


...kind of like when I was little and my friends and I used to take turns sitting on you because we liked to eat you in little bitty pieces.


i personally like to keep my ass as far away from my food as possible. its a personal preference though


we used protection. a little non-traditional...mylar. but it worked, and our butts remained nacho-cheese free

afterglow99
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Re: Why do Third Tier and Fourth Tier Law Schools even exist?

Postby afterglow99 » Fri Feb 19, 2010 12:18 am

They exist because the LSAT is an imperfect test. This whole discussion is predicated on the assumption that the kid who scores 155 will never have what it takes to be a thoughtful and successful lawyer and that the school he goes to won't provide him with the skills to be a successful lawyer (or at least not as well as the kid with a 165 at a T30.). These are deeply flawed presumptions and assume that the LSAT actually tests the skills needed to be a successful lawyer.

Also, i don't think anyone can dispute the fact that cheap, state schools are a VERY smart option for many people. They are highly regarded within the state, charge a reasonable tuition, and offer local options for students who don't want to move too far away from home.

scionb4
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Re: Why do Third Tier and Fourth Tier Law Schools even exist?

Postby scionb4 » Fri Feb 19, 2010 12:21 am

afterglow99 wrote:They exist because the LSAT is an imperfect test. This whole discussion is predicated on the assumption that the kid who scores 155 will never have what it takes to be a thoughtful and successful lawyer and that the school he goes to won't provide him with the skills to be a successful lawyer (or at least not as well as the kid with a 165 at a T30.). These are deeply flawed presumptions and assume that the LSAT actually tests the skills needed to be a successful lawyer.

Also, i don't think anyone can dispute the fact that cheap, state schools are a VERY smart option for many people. They are highly regarded within the state, charge a reasonable tuition, and offer local options for students who don't want to move too far away from home.


You DEFINITELY aren't stuck in a tier 3 or 4 with a 155. I am living proof of that considering my acceptances. I do have a 3.8 and am part Mexican though, that probably helped.

sibley
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Re: Why do Third Tier and Fourth Tier Law Schools even exist?

Postby sibley » Fri Feb 19, 2010 12:22 am

scionb4 wrote:You DEFINITELY aren't stuck in a tier 3 or 4 with a 155. I am living proof of that considering my acceptances. I do have a 3.8 and am part Mexican though, that probably helped.



lucky. I'm part cherokee/somesortofiroqouis and no one gives a rat's ass.

scionb4
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Re: Why do Third Tier and Fourth Tier Law Schools even exist?

Postby scionb4 » Fri Feb 19, 2010 12:25 am

sibley wrote:
scionb4 wrote:You DEFINITELY aren't stuck in a tier 3 or 4 with a 155. I am living proof of that considering my acceptances. I do have a 3.8 and am part Mexican though, that probably helped.



lucky. I'm part cherokee/somesortofiroqouis and no one gives a rat's ass.


You'd think that Native Americans would be at the top of the Affirmative Action list considering the European's . . . um . . . genocide against them and mass exile of them.

sibley
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Re: Why do Third Tier and Fourth Tier Law Schools even exist?

Postby sibley » Fri Feb 19, 2010 12:26 am

scionb4 wrote:
sibley wrote:
scionb4 wrote:You DEFINITELY aren't stuck in a tier 3 or 4 with a 155. I am living proof of that considering my acceptances. I do have a 3.8 and am part Mexican though, that probably helped.



lucky. I'm part cherokee/somesortofiroqouis and no one gives a rat's ass.


You'd think that Native Americans would be at the top of the Affirmative Action list considering the European's . . . um . . . genocide against them and mass exile of them.


I know right! Same with non-Spaniard Mexicans though. The Cherokee may have been forced to move and may have died on the way, but at least they knew what was going on.... disease-infested blankets are not cool.

scionb4
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Re: Why do Third Tier and Fourth Tier Law Schools even exist?

Postby scionb4 » Fri Feb 19, 2010 12:31 am

sibley wrote:
scionb4 wrote:
sibley wrote:
scionb4 wrote:You DEFINITELY aren't stuck in a tier 3 or 4 with a 155. I am living proof of that considering my acceptances. I do have a 3.8 and am part Mexican though, that probably helped.



lucky. I'm part cherokee/somesortofiroqouis and no one gives a rat's ass.


You'd think that Native Americans would be at the top of the Affirmative Action list considering the European's . . . um . . . genocide against them and mass exile of them.


I know right! Same with non-Spaniard Mexicans though. The Cherokee may have been forced to move and may have died on the way, but at least they knew what was going on.... disease-infested blankets are not cool.


That's what my grandma is - a non-Spaniard Mexican.

afterglow99
Posts: 71
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Re: Why do Third Tier and Fourth Tier Law Schools even exist?

Postby afterglow99 » Fri Feb 19, 2010 12:32 am

scionb4 wrote:
afterglow99 wrote:They exist because the LSAT is an imperfect test. This whole discussion is predicated on the assumption that the kid who scores 155 will never have what it takes to be a thoughtful and successful lawyer and that the school he goes to won't provide him with the skills to be a successful lawyer (or at least not as well as the kid with a 165 at a T30.). These are deeply flawed presumptions and assume that the LSAT actually tests the skills needed to be a successful lawyer.

Also, i don't think anyone can dispute the fact that cheap, state schools are a VERY smart option for many people. They are highly regarded within the state, charge a reasonable tuition, and offer local options for students who don't want to move too far away from home.


You DEFINITELY aren't stuck in a tier 3 or 4 with a 155. I am living proof of that considering my acceptances. I do have a 3.8 and am part Mexican though, that probably helped.


I had a 3.8 from a top international undergrad, but couldn't break 160 on the LSAT so ended up at a cheap state school that is at risk of falling out of the top 100. After 3/4 of 1L I can tell you that the LSAT, especially logic games, is pretty much BS for predicting law school grades. Without TTTs I may not have been able to go to law school, but now I'm sitting pretty in the top 10% and looking at a good shot of a transfer acceptance to Georgetown.

What I DO think needs to change is the asymmetry of information regarding lower ranked schools. They should all be honest and transparent about the fact that most graduates will be starting out making 50k. I have far too many friends that definitely think law school=$$$, regardless of the school. If TTTs become more transparent, I see no reason why everyone shouldn't be given the chance to take the gamble, even if the odds may be against them. After all, the cream always rises to the top.
Last edited by afterglow99 on Fri Feb 19, 2010 12:37 am, edited 1 time in total.




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