Why do Third Tier and Fourth Tier Law Schools even exist?

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farewelltoarms
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Why do Third Tier and Fourth Tier Law Schools even exist?

Postby farewelltoarms » Wed Feb 17, 2010 11:22 pm

Before someone retorts, why does any law school outside of the top 14 exist har har, lets be reasonable. A person graduating from the top law schools in his or her state will always have good job prospects in the future. As a Floridian, I would include UF FSU and even UM in this category. However, certain schools, like Nova, FIU, FAMU have no purpose. Even if you graduated from these schools who would hire you over a UF or FSU grad? It just seems like people are throwing 3 years of their life down the drain. These people need to realize that if you can't muster above a 155 or so on the LSAT maybe law just isn't their thing.

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jmaan
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Re: Why do Third Tier and Fourth Tier Law Schools even exist?

Postby jmaan » Wed Feb 17, 2010 11:25 pm

law schools need to make money too

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Gamecubesupreme
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Re: Why do Third Tier and Fourth Tier Law Schools even exist?

Postby Gamecubesupreme » Wed Feb 17, 2010 11:27 pm

With the exception of a few law schools like Vermont Law, most of 3rd and 4th Tier Law Schools are only there to swallow up the delusional students with money to waste.

shutterbug
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Re: Why do Third Tier and Fourth Tier Law Schools even exist?

Postby shutterbug » Wed Feb 17, 2010 11:29 pm

This may be tough for most on TLS to believe, perhaps it is because money is not the only reason people want to become lawyers?

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of Benito Cereno
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Re: Why do Third Tier and Fourth Tier Law Schools even exist?

Postby of Benito Cereno » Wed Feb 17, 2010 11:33 pm

no. the tuition may be absurd but thats not to say that there aren't tons of crappy, boring, unglamorous yet necessary and existent legal jobs and these jobs are filled with t3/4 graduates. somebody has to do the divorces of school bus drivers, the dui defenses, personal injury and estate planning law in central ohio. there is a case to be made perhaps for a wider variety of legal degrees but there certainly is a lot of legal work to be done outside of major city firms.

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bees
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Re: Why do Third Tier and Fourth Tier Law Schools even exist?

Postby bees » Wed Feb 17, 2010 11:38 pm

supply and demand

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im_blue
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Re: Why do Third Tier and Fourth Tier Law Schools even exist?

Postby im_blue » Wed Feb 17, 2010 11:49 pm

Gamecubesupreme wrote:With the exception of a few law schools like Vermont Law, most of 3rd and 4th Tier Law Schools are only there to swallow up the delusional students with money to waste.


TITCR. TTTs will continue to exist as long as students continue to throw their money at them.

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manbearwig
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Re: Why do Third Tier and Fourth Tier Law Schools even exist?

Postby manbearwig » Wed Feb 17, 2010 11:55 pm

Because people are willing to pay for them.

njskatchmo
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Re: Why do Third Tier and Fourth Tier Law Schools even exist?

Postby njskatchmo » Thu Feb 18, 2010 12:12 am

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Last edited by njskatchmo on Sun Oct 18, 2015 12:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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TTTennis
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Re: Why do Third Tier and Fourth Tier Law Schools even exist?

Postby TTTennis » Thu Feb 18, 2010 12:14 am

I was wondering the same thing myself :? It's obviously so that I have a school to attend, come on.

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sudoku
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Re: Why do Third Tier and Fourth Tier Law Schools even exist?

Postby sudoku » Thu Feb 18, 2010 12:27 am

Some schools are prevalent in their region.

Texas Tech = vast opportunities in West Texas

South Texas College of Law = one of the top ten USNWR trial advocacy programs

Hawaii = gold if you want to practice on the island


T3 and T4 schools have their niches. If you don't desire that niche, don't apply. If you do, it is a fabulous opportunity, often accompanied by $$$ if you have the numbers.

In my cycle, I've applied to all, including T14, T30, and TTT. I would attend a TTT (Texas Tech) over a T30 (Illinois) because I desire Texas employment. Illinois is an unbelievable school, no doubt--but carries little weight in my intended career state. I would take a T3 school over a T1 in this instance.

Many of you will disagree. That is fine. But I will receive in-state tuition and networking opportunities exceeding that available to me at a considerably higher ranking school.

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DoubleChecks
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Re: Why do Third Tier and Fourth Tier Law Schools even exist?

Postby DoubleChecks » Thu Feb 18, 2010 12:44 am

sudoku wrote:Some schools are prevalent in their region.

Texas Tech = vast opportunities in West Texas

South Texas College of Law = one of the top ten USNWR trial advocacy programs

Hawaii = gold if you want to practice on the island


T3 and T4 schools have their niches. If you don't desire that niche, don't apply. If you do, it is a fabulous opportunity, often accompanied by $$$ if you have the numbers.

In my cycle, I've applied to all, including T14, T30, and TTT. I would attend a TTT (Texas Tech) over a T30 (Illinois) because I desire Texas employment. Illinois is an unbelievable school, no doubt--but carries little weight in my intended career state. I would take a T3 school over a T1 in this instance.

Many of you will disagree. That is fine. But I will receive in-state tuition and networking opportunities exceeding that available to me at a considerably higher ranking school.


okay in your specific case, it completely makes sense to me lol

i find it hard to believe that someone else would recommend T30 Illinois over TTT Texas Tech for a TX resident who wants to practice in West TX, receiving the in-state tuition and such haha

Clever_User_Name
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Re: Why do Third Tier and Fourth Tier Law Schools even exist?

Postby Clever_User_Name » Thu Feb 18, 2010 2:12 am

Lets use the old frontal lobe here...$ of course.

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JustDude
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Re: Why do Third Tier and Fourth Tier Law Schools even exist?

Postby JustDude » Thu Feb 18, 2010 2:15 am

farewelltoarms wrote: why does any law school outside of the top 14 exist har har, lets be reasonable.


To separate fools and their money

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Doritos
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Re: Why do Third Tier and Fourth Tier Law Schools even exist?

Postby Doritos » Thu Feb 18, 2010 2:15 am

of Benito Cereno wrote:no. the tuition may be absurd but thats not to say that there aren't tons of crappy, boring, unglamorous yet necessary and existent legal jobs and these jobs are filled with t3/4 graduates. somebody has to do the divorces of school bus drivers, the dui defenses, personal injury and estate planning law in central ohio. there is a case to be made perhaps for a wider variety of legal degrees but there certainly is a lot of legal work to be done outside of major city firms.


--ImageRemoved--


Come on Columbus people...get the reference

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Grizz
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Re: Why do Third Tier and Fourth Tier Law Schools even exist?

Postby Grizz » Thu Feb 18, 2010 2:57 am

Sometimes it's to cater to a niche market, but more likely to make straight cash.

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flhealth
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Re: Why do Third Tier and Fourth Tier Law Schools even exist?

Postby flhealth » Thu Feb 18, 2010 3:15 am

FIU = 11K per year in one of the nations top 10 legal markets...for a Florida resident who wants to practice in South Florida it is an inexpensive option...is Miami a better option? probably, but not if you dont want to spend 40K per year in tuition

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PDaddy
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Re: Why do Third Tier and Fourth Tier Law Schools even exist?

Postby PDaddy » Thu Feb 18, 2010 3:19 am

bees wrote:supply and demand


TITCR. Clearly there are enough students hoping to become attorneys. Plus, the competition between students is good for the profession. Most TTT schools, and even some T4's are actually very good law schools that can provide legal education on par with T1 schools. Wayne State and Southwestern were T4's last year for cryin' outloud! And alternative rankings have already had their say on Syracuse, Howard, Vermont, Suffolk, NYLS and the like. Those schools are considered to be grossly underrated and underranked.

But, save for Howard, what they cannot provide with any semblance of reliability (say 15-20% of a class) is high-paying or prestigious jobs, and that diminishes their value. Legal education, in general, is overpriced, but no TTT should be charging more than 50% what T1 schools charge, if that.

Reduce their prices and they would become much more attractive. Many people are not so elitist and would consider attending one if the tuition was lower. But that's the problem. The demand would drive the price back up. Hence, there's no way to keep the TTT schools from charging like T1.

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Muckduck
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Re: Why do Third Tier and Fourth Tier Law Schools even exist?

Postby Muckduck » Thu Feb 18, 2010 3:23 am

Plenty of small seemingly insignificant firms for the small insignificant law schools?

It's true. Most TLSers are super ambitious and shooting for T-14 schools and biglaw some day. There are some people who are perfectly happy to stay local and just live comfortable lives as small scale lawyers. I have a friend who passed up some great schools to go to the University of Idaho because he and his wife want to end up in Idaho where they are from. Not what I'd do, but I get the impression it will make them happy.

itsfine
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Re: Why do Third Tier and Fourth Tier Law Schools even exist?

Postby itsfine » Thu Feb 18, 2010 3:25 am

I'm surprised you had the audacity to post something this bad

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PDaddy
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Re: Why do Third Tier and Fourth Tier Law Schools even exist?

Postby PDaddy » Thu Feb 18, 2010 3:33 am

Muckduck wrote:Plenty of small seemingly insignificant firms for the small insignificant law schools?

It's true. Most TLSers are super ambitious and shooting for T-14 schools and biglaw some day. There are some people who are perfectly happy to stay local and just live comfortable lives as small scale lawyers. I have a friend who passed up some great schools to go to the University of Idaho because he and his wife want to end up in Idaho where they are from. Not what I'd do, but I get the impression it will make them happy.


Yes, it is easy to always see the world in terms of what makes "us" happy, but we forget that what we consider to be the brass ring often means little or nothing to others. BigLaw isn't the be all to many people that it is to us. Big cities are nothing but noise to some people. Many of us will find that we are unimpressed after 3 years of chasing paper for those farts up there. And there are plenty of botiquers and solo practitioners who out-earn BigLawyers by a mile, with much less stress. In that same vein, there must be some brilliant lawyers in Nebraska doing farming contracting (or some other wierd specialties) for a living, and getting paid ridiculous $um$.

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Muckduck
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Re: Why do Third Tier and Fourth Tier Law Schools even exist?

Postby Muckduck » Thu Feb 18, 2010 3:36 am

PDaddy wrote:
Muckduck wrote:Plenty of small seemingly insignificant firms for the small insignificant law schools?

It's true. Most TLSers are super ambitious and shooting for T-14 schools and biglaw some day. There are some people who are perfectly happy to stay local and just live comfortable lives as small scale lawyers. I have a friend who passed up some great schools to go to the University of Idaho because he and his wife want to end up in Idaho where they are from. Not what I'd do, but I get the impression it will make them happy.


Yes, it is easy to always see the world in terms of what makes "us" happy, but we forget that what we consider to be the brass ring often means little or nothing to others. BigLaw isn't the be all to many people that it is to us. Big cities are nothing but noise to some people. Many of us will find that we are unimpressed after 3 years of chasing paper for those farts up there. And there are plenty of botiquers and solo practitioners who out-earn BigLawyers by a mile, with much less stress. In that same vein, there must be some brilliant lawyers in Nebraska doing farming contracting (or some other wierd specialties) for a living, and getting paid ridiculous $um$.


Bingo.

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gobucks101
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Re: Why do Third Tier and Fourth Tier Law Schools even exist?

Postby gobucks101 » Thu Feb 18, 2010 3:38 am

Doritos wrote:
of Benito Cereno wrote:no. the tuition may be absurd but thats not to say that there aren't tons of crappy, boring, unglamorous yet necessary and existent legal jobs and these jobs are filled with t3/4 graduates. somebody has to do the divorces of school bus drivers, the dui defenses, personal injury and estate planning law in central ohio. there is a case to be made perhaps for a wider variety of legal degrees but there certainly is a lot of legal work to be done outside of major city firms.


--ImageRemoved--


Come on Columbus people...get the reference



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q6iykFWF ... r_embedded

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Mickey Quicknumbers
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Re: Why do Third Tier and Fourth Tier Law Schools even exist?

Postby Mickey Quicknumbers » Thu Feb 18, 2010 3:41 am

flhealth wrote:FIU = 11K per year in one of the nations top 10 legal markets...for a Florida resident who wants to practice in South Florida it is an inexpensive option...is Miami a better option? probably, but not if you dont want to spend 40K per year in tuition


In 2005, when the market was rosy, FIU had a 24% attrition rate and placed about 30% of it's class in the private practice. That's not a good ratio no matter how much it costs.

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SilverE2
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Re: Why do Third Tier and Fourth Tier Law Schools even exist?

Postby SilverE2 » Thu Feb 18, 2010 3:57 am

flhealth wrote:FIU = 11K per year in one of the nations top 10 legal markets...for a Florida resident who wants to practice in South Florida it is an inexpensive option...is Miami a better option? probably, but not if you dont want to spend 40K per year in tuition


Yeah, you're going to need the money you saved when you graduate from the law school with the worst employment statistics in the nation. (I mean, 21% employed at grad...are you kidding me?)




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