Rarely talked about schools on TLS...

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TTTennis
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Re: Rarely talked about schools on TLS...

Postby TTTennis » Fri Feb 12, 2010 5:59 pm

Desert Fox wrote:
cdd_04 wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:ITT People don't understand expected value.


Not quite sure what you are trying to say with this. I think you are saying Yale has a much higher expected value over somewhere like ND. However, I'm not sure you can really look at unreliable data (such as reported average median starting salaries) and use that as expected. Especially considering schools in the top 20-30 often only report median starting salaries 20-40K below place like HYS. If you are going to said 20-30 ranked school for free and HYS for sticker, I'm not sure the ROI is that much greater (way too lazy to do the math) considering your salary after your first 2-3 legal jobs is widely dependent on factors that have little to do with where you went to law school.


But it is based off your first legal job, which is based off where you went to school.

Top20% of ND grads can get big law jobs ITE, and 100% of Yale grads can.


Not necessarily true at all. I know a number of lawyers (not pulling from the extremes here, because I am talking about a large number) that went to schools reporting low median starting salaries as well as high median starting salaries, and they have ended up roughly in the same financial state-with way too much f'ing money. Just like in any career, what you do in your first 10 years of a career does not determine, or necessarily have an impact on, where you will end up 20-30 years down the road. So, really, your earnings later on in your career could have absolutely nothing to do with your first legal job or the school you went to.

Mr. Pablo
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Re: Rarely talked about schools on TLS...

Postby Mr. Pablo » Fri Feb 12, 2010 6:03 pm

Why is it that when someone wants to have a discussion about law schools that are outside of the elite numbers bracket (t3/6/10/14/20/30 or whathaveyou), people insist on dumping all over it? Yes, this is TLS and inherently there will be bias towards the elite schools. What I don't understand is that if you think lower-ranked or un-ranked schools are not worth considering or talking about, why are you wasting your time posting in this thread? Who cares? If the guy/gal wants an honest discussion with people who are interested in these schools, just leave it be and let people who want to talk about it do so. If no one is interested then the thread dies a quiet, natural death.
That being said, it is absurd to go comparing Yale to Valparaiso and this is where the thread went awry. There are people who really want to be lawyers, but lack the numbers/credentials to gain entry into elite schools. Schools like Valparaiso offer the opportunity for these people to do so. Will a graduate of a 2nd, 3rd, or 4th tier school have to work much, much harder for entry into the large, high paying markets and firms (if that is what they want)? Yes, of course they will, if they get access at all; there is nothing wrong with pointing this out.
It may be that people have other aspirations than the super-prestigious clerkship or 'biglaw' salary, and a non 'top law school' might be enough for them. Just let them have their discussion. The constant, semi-humorous belittling is not providing anyone with any service. It may be kind of funny, but not helpful.

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Stringer Bell
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Re: Rarely talked about schools on TLS...

Postby Stringer Bell » Fri Feb 12, 2010 6:04 pm

cdd_04 wrote:Not necessarily true at all. I know a number of lawyers (not pulling from the extremes here, because I am talking about a large number) that went to schools reporting low median starting salaries as well as high median starting salaries, and they have ended up roughly in the same financial state-with way too much f'ing money. Just like in any career, what you do in your first 10 years of a career does not determine, or necessarily have an impact on, where you will end up 20-30 years down the road. So, really, your earnings later on in your career could have absolutely nothing to do with your first legal job or the school you went to.


If several years have gone by, they became lawyers in a completely different climate. If you can't find a job as an attorney starting out period, you are not likely to be banking as an attorney ten years from now. This argument likely would have been completely different in the 90's.

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TTTennis
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Re: Rarely talked about schools on TLS...

Postby TTTennis » Fri Feb 12, 2010 6:09 pm

Mr. Pablo wrote:Why is it that when someone wants to have a discussion about law schools that are outside of the elite numbers bracket (t3/6/10/14/20/30 or whathaveyou), people insist on dumping all over it? Yes, this is TLS and inherently there will be bias towards the elite schools. What I don't understand is that if you think lower-ranked or un-ranked schools are not worth considering or talking about, why are you wasting your time posting in this thread? Who cares? If the guy/gal wants an honest discussion with people who are interested in these schools, just leave it be and let people who want to talk about it do so. If no one is interested then the thread dies a quiet, natural death.
That being said, it is absurd to go comparing Yale to Valparaiso and this is where the thread went awry. There are people who really want to be lawyers, but lack the numbers/credentials to gain entry into elite schools. Schools like Valparaiso offer the opportunity for these people to do so. Will a graduate of a 2nd, 3rd, or 4th tier school have to work much, much harder for entry into the large, high paying markets and firms (if that is what they want)? Yes, of course they will, if they get access at all; there is nothing wrong with pointing this out.
It may be that people have other aspirations than the super-prestigious clerkship or 'biglaw' salary, and a non 'top law school' might be enough for them. Just let them have their discussion. The constant, semi-humorous belittling is not providing anyone with any service. It may be kind of funny, but not helpful.


First bolded sentence, you answered your own question with the highlighted red bolded sentence. Second (black) bolded sentence-because this is a pre-law website and regardless of if being a lawyer is about arguing or not, we all love to do it. Plus, we all love to think we are right and want to convince others/others to see just how awesome we are. This shouldn't come as a shock. Besides, how much entertainment does this provide? Plenty :D And everyone on here is an elitist snob (yes, even you). Some of us just don't have the numbers to reinforce our values (read: this guy). Cognitive dissonance? I think so.

HTH

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Re: Rarely talked about schools on TLS...

Postby Mr. Pablo » Fri Feb 12, 2010 6:55 pm

cdd_04 wrote:
First bolded sentence, you answered your own question with the highlighted red bolded sentence. Second (black) bolded sentence-because this is a pre-law website and regardless of if being a lawyer is about arguing or not, we all love to do it. Plus, we all love to think we are right and want to convince others/others to see just how awesome we are. This shouldn't come as a shock. Besides, how much entertainment does this provide? Plenty :D And everyone on here is an elitist snob (yes, even you). Some of us just don't have the numbers to reinforce our values (read: this guy). Cognitive dissonance? I think so.

HTH


I know I answered my own question, and I apparently failed in my attempt to move past this argument. I was trying to get to the point that people who are unable to gain admission to the elite schools, and are determined to be lawyers, are beyond the consideration of 't14 at sticker or $$$ at at t30'. They want to talk about they schools that they have access to, and the interjection of unhelpful disparaging remarks (amusing though they may be) is discourteous.
I am not going to contend that I am not an elitist, I am. It just strikes me as odd that people would try to get their kicks by bashing schools on an internet forum.
I am not shocked that people on this forum would want to debate any number of things that are related to law school. I do not, however, see calling Valparaiso a 'Third Tier Toilet's Toilet' an argument or debate; it is a mildly amusing remark.
I am not going to argue that this thread is a great example, but when someone is trying to have a reasonable discussion about their options it seems to me that the amusement seeking elitist crowd should just let it be, and let people have a space to talk.

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Mr. Matlock
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Re: Rarely talked about schools on TLS...

Postby Mr. Matlock » Fri Feb 12, 2010 7:29 pm

Mr. Pablo wrote:
cdd_04 wrote:
First bolded sentence, you answered your own question with the highlighted red bolded sentence. Second (black) bolded sentence-because this is a pre-law website and regardless of if being a lawyer is about arguing or not, we all love to do it. Plus, we all love to think we are right and want to convince others/others to see just how awesome we are. This shouldn't come as a shock. Besides, how much entertainment does this provide? Plenty :D And everyone on here is an elitist snob (yes, even you). Some of us just don't have the numbers to reinforce our values (read: this guy). Cognitive dissonance? I think so.

HTH


I know I answered my own question, and I apparently failed in my attempt to move past this argument. I was trying to get to the point that people who are unable to gain admission to the elite schools, and are determined to be lawyers, are beyond the consideration of 't14 at sticker or $$$ at at t30'. They want to talk about they schools that they have access to, and the interjection of unhelpful disparaging remarks (amusing though they may be) is discourteous.
I am not going to contend that I am not an elitist, I am. It just strikes me as odd that people would try to get their kicks by bashing schools on an internet forum.
I am not shocked that people on this forum would want to debate any number of things that are related to law school. I do not, however, see calling Valparaiso a 'Third Tier Toilet's Toilet' an argument or debate; it is a mildly amusing remark.
I am not going to argue that this thread is a great example, but when someone is trying to have a reasonable discussion about their options it seems to me that the amusement seeking elitist crowd should just let it be, and let people have a space to talk.

Subtle Penn trolling?

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reasonabledoubt
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Re: Rarely talked about schools on TLS...

Postby reasonabledoubt » Fri Feb 12, 2010 7:36 pm

Mr. Pablo wrote:
cdd_04 wrote:
First bolded sentence, you answered your own question with the highlighted red bolded sentence. Second (black) bolded sentence-because this is a pre-law website and regardless of if being a lawyer is about arguing or not, we all love to do it. Plus, we all love to think we are right and want to convince others/others to see just how awesome we are. This shouldn't come as a shock. Besides, how much entertainment does this provide? Plenty :D And everyone on here is an elitist snob (yes, even you). Some of us just don't have the numbers to reinforce our values (read: this guy). Cognitive dissonance? I think so.

HTH


I know I answered my own question, and I apparently failed in my attempt to move past this argument. I was trying to get to the point that people who are unable to gain admission to the elite schools, and are determined to be lawyers, are beyond the consideration of 't14 at sticker or $$$ at at t30'. They want to talk about they schools that they have access to, and the interjection of unhelpful disparaging remarks (amusing though they may be) is discourteous.
I am not going to contend that I am not an elitist, I am. It just strikes me as odd that people would try to get their kicks by bashing schools on an internet forum.
I am not shocked that people on this forum would want to debate any number of things that are related to law school. I do not, however, see calling Valparaiso a 'Third Tier Toilet's Toilet' an argument or debate; it is a mildly amusing remark.
I am not going to argue that this thread is a great example, but when someone is trying to have a reasonable discussion about their options it seems to me that the amusement seeking elitist crowd should just let it be, and let people have a space to talk.


LOL at the way you proudly embrace the idea of being an "elitist" - very similar to the way some girls pretend to be offended when they're called "princesses or spoiled" when, underneath the laughable facade, they actually love the attention of being defined as such. You were making some sense until that.... but the cliched attempt at identifying with "elitism" was rather lame.

But before I make any judgements, would you care to ellaborate on how you (and poster above) thinks they are so elite? Is this a socioeconomic thing or just a state of mind? Also, what if I were to convince you something was "fancy" with clever marketing or rankings? Would I then be able to control you into liking whatever I chose for you to like?

I hope you're not being classist with your comments above Mr. elitester; I have a handful of super wealthy friends who would laugh as well as throw up at the idea of someone coming on law school board and proclaiming how elite they are. All of those afformentioned friends are down to earth, recognize they're lucky but really have a "giving back" type spirit, etc.

But you are ELITE, so maybe we're all missing something - care to share?

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D. H2Oman
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Re: Rarely talked about schools on TLS...

Postby D. H2Oman » Fri Feb 12, 2010 7:40 pm

reasonabledoubt wrote:
Mr. Pablo wrote:
[strike]I know I answered my own question, and I apparently failed in my attempt to move past this argument. I was trying to get to the point that people who are unable to gain admission to the elite schools, and are determined to be lawyers, are beyond the consideration of 't14 at sticker or $$$ at at t30'. They want to talk about they schools that they have access to, and the interjection of unhelpful disparaging remarks (amusing though they may be) is discourteous.
I am not going to contend that I am not an elitist, I am. It just strikes me as odd that people would try to get their kicks by bashing schools on an internet forum.
I am not shocked that people on this forum would want to debate any number of things that are related to law school. I do not, however, see calling Valparaiso a 'Third Tier Toilet's Toilet' an argument or debate; it is a mildly amusing remark.
I am not going to argue that this thread is a great example, but when someone is trying to have a reasonable discussion about their options it seems to me that the amusement seeking elitist crowd should just let it be, and let people have a space to talk[/strike].


[strike]LOL at the way you proudly embrace the idea of being an "elitist" - very similar to the way some girls pretend to be offended when they're called "princesses or spoiled" when, underneath the laughable facade, they actually love the attention of being defined as such. You were making some sense until that.... but the cliched attempt at identifying with "elitism" was rather lame.

But before I make any judgements, would you care to ellaborate on how you (and poster above) thinks they are so elite? Is this a socioeconomic thing or just a state of mind? Also, what if I were to convince you something was "fancy" with clever marketing or rankings? Would I then be able to control you into liking whatever I chose for you to like?

I hope you're not being classist with your comments above Mr. elitester; I have a handful of super wealthy friends who would laugh as well as throw up at the idea of someone coming on law school board and proclaiming how elite they are. All of those afformentioned friends are down to earth, recognize they're lucky but really have a "giving back" type spirit, etc.

But you are ELITE, so maybe we're all missing something - care to share[/strike]?


The douche-off is a tie!

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reasonabledoubt
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Re: Rarely talked about schools on TLS...

Postby reasonabledoubt » Fri Feb 12, 2010 7:42 pm

D. H2Oman wrote:
reasonabledoubt wrote:
Mr. Pablo wrote:
[strike]I know I answered my own question, and I apparently failed in my attempt to move past this argument. I was trying to get to the point that people who are unable to gain admission to the elite schools, and are determined to be lawyers, are beyond the consideration of 't14 at sticker or $$$ at at t30'. They want to talk about they schools that they have access to, and the interjection of unhelpful disparaging remarks (amusing though they may be) is discourteous.
I am not going to contend that I am not an elitist, I am. It just strikes me as odd that people would try to get their kicks by bashing schools on an internet forum.
I am not shocked that people on this forum would want to debate any number of things that are related to law school. I do not, however, see calling Valparaiso a 'Third Tier Toilet's Toilet' an argument or debate; it is a mildly amusing remark.
I am not going to argue that this thread is a great example, but when someone is trying to have a reasonable discussion about their options it seems to me that the amusement seeking elitist crowd should just let it be, and let people have a space to talk[/strike].


LOL at the way you proudly embrace the idea of being an "elitist" - very similar to the way some girls pretend to be offended when they're called "princesses or spoiled" when, underneath the laughable facade, they actually love the attention of being defined as such. You were making some sense until that.... but the cliched attempt at identifying with "elitism" was rather lame.

But before I make any judgements, would you care to ellaborate on how you (and poster above) thinks they are so elite? Is this a socioeconomic thing or just a state of mind? Also, what if I were to convince you something was "fancy" with clever marketing or rankings? Would I then be able to control you into liking whatever I chose for you to like?

I hope you're not being classist with your comments above Mr. elitester; I have a handful of super wealthy friends who would laugh as well as throw up at the idea of someone coming on law school board and proclaiming how elite they are. All of those afformentioned friends are down to earth, recognize they're lucky but really have a "giving back" type spirit, etc.

But you are ELITE, so maybe we're all missing something - care to share?


[strike]The douche-off is a tie![/strike]

rundoxierun
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Re: Rarely talked about schools on TLS...

Postby rundoxierun » Fri Feb 12, 2010 7:43 pm

FWIW, I would turn down Yale for Harvard or Stanford without even a second thought... and if you/your family have so much money that you are getting zero dollars from Yale w/ need-based aid I doubt you are really all that worried about making the student loan payments..

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Mickey Quicknumbers
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Re: Rarely talked about schools on TLS...

Postby Mickey Quicknumbers » Fri Feb 12, 2010 8:06 pm

Time for some math!
Let's assume Yale at sticker vs. ND at full scholly

Yale total cost of living for 3 years = 200,000
ND total cost of living - tuition for 3 years = 45,000
lets say that the value of money discounts at 6% a year

Given that you graduated from Yale, there's a good amount of certainty that you will get a job in biglaw
so with an initial cash outflow of 200,000 and then 10 periods 160,000 (ignoring growth for simplicity's sake). Plug it all into the financial calculator and we get
EV(Yale) = 977,613.93

Given that you graduated from Notre Dame, lets say that you have a 25% chance of biglaw from here on out (not unrealistic for the future), and the other 75% are making about 55,000 (again, ignoring income growth for simplicity's sake)
so the total value of Notre Dame given big law is: EV(N1) = 1,132,613.93
the total value of Notre Dame given you don't make big law EV(N2) = 359,804.79
given these variable cash flows we can combine them given their probability
EV(N1)x.25 + EV(N2)x.75 = 553,007.07

EV(Yale) = 977,613.93
EV(ND) = 553,007.07

Granted these aren't perfect simulations of real life, but it's still a pretty good idea of why Yale is such a better idea than a full ride at Notre Dame

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whuts4lunch
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Re: Rarely talked about schools on TLS...

Postby whuts4lunch » Fri Feb 12, 2010 8:15 pm

While I agree that Yale > ND full $$$, I disagree with your calculations. A Yale level student is more than 25% likely (a rational expectation I think) to be in the top 25% of the class. How much more likely than 25% is debatable. I figure a Yale level student will more often than not be able to crack top 25% at ND, but its all speculation. I'd say your calculations pose a worst case expectation for the ND full $$$ Yale acceptee.

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Mickey Quicknumbers
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Re: Rarely talked about schools on TLS...

Postby Mickey Quicknumbers » Fri Feb 12, 2010 8:23 pm

whuts4lunch wrote:While I agree that Yale > ND full $$$, I disagree with your calculations. A Yale level student is more than 25% likely (a rational expectation I think) to be in the top 25% of the class. How much more likely than 25% is debatable. I figure a Yale level student will more often than not be able to crack top 25% at ND, but its all speculation. I'd say your calculations pose a worst case expectation for the ND full $$$ Yale acceptee.


While I wasn't taking the perspective of a single person deciding between the two, just showing the relative values of the two scenarios, that's a fair argument. So lets try this again assuming that the average yale grade has a 60% chance of making the top 25% of ND, and a 40% chance of being out of luck.

EV(ND) rises to 823,490.26, you're still 150,000 dollars behind taking Yale at sticker.

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SamSeaborn2016
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Re: Rarely talked about schools on TLS...

Postby SamSeaborn2016 » Fri Feb 12, 2010 8:33 pm

By definition TLS is going to be biased towards the higher ranked schools and I don't think anyone should expect otherwise or feel too disrespected by that existing bias towards t14/t20/whatever.

That said, I feel that more information regarding the full spectrum of schools is only a good thing, as long as the information provided is factual. For example, the primary reason Cooley draws such ire on here is that they continually throw around their own rankings based on goofy nonsense such as floor space.

I actually think TLS does a good job of this. Currently, there are profiles on most of the schools listed in the US NEWS top 100. It might actually be all of them, I didn't count. Additionally, there are profiles for Canadian law schools and others.

Additionally, anyone can start a thread regarding any school in the forums. Lewis and Clark, a strong regional school but not necessarily a top law school, has a nice thread going. I see plenty of threads like that floating around. You might get some trolls or elitism leaking in to those threads but I think the mods do a good job of limiting the offensive or downright incorrect information that gets spread.

Really, at the end of the day, potential law students need to weigh the specific cost/benefit ratio for each school based on their own needs and desires. If your heart is set on $160k/yr working for a NYC firm, going to Gonzaga might not be the safest plan. If you want to be an ADA in a smaller market, going to a local/in-state school could be the most financially responsible plan regardless of your LSAT/GPA.

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Ragged
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Re: Rarely talked about schools on TLS...

Postby Ragged » Fri Feb 12, 2010 8:34 pm

adh07d wrote:Time for some math!
Let's assume Yale at sticker vs. ND at full scholly

Yale total cost of living for 3 years = 200,000
ND total cost of living - tuition for 3 years = 45,000
lets say that the value of money discounts at 6% a year

Given that you graduated from Yale, there's a good amount of certainty that you will get a job in biglaw
so with an initial cash outflow of 200,000 and then 10 periods 160,000 (ignoring growth for simplicity's sake). Plug it all into the financial calculator and we get
EV(Yale) = 977,613.93

Given that you graduated from Notre Dame, lets say that you have a 25% chance of biglaw from here on out (not unrealistic for the future), and the other 75% are making about 55,000 (again, ignoring income growth for simplicity's sake)
so the total value of Notre Dame given big law is: EV(N1) = 1,132,613.93
the total value of Notre Dame given you don't make big law EV(N2) = 359,804.79
given these variable cash flows we can combine them given their probability
EV(N1)x.25 + EV(N2)x.75 = 553,007.07

EV(Yale) = 977,613.93
EV(ND) = 553,007.07

Granted these aren't perfect simulations of real life, but it's still a pretty good idea of why Yale is such a better idea than a full ride at Notre Dame


As a fellow finance major I aplaud your discounted cashflow analysis. :D

awesomepossum
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Re: Rarely talked about schools on TLS...

Postby awesomepossum » Fri Feb 12, 2010 8:39 pm

this thread sure is long.

oneforship
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Re: Rarely talked about schools on TLS...

Postby oneforship » Fri Feb 12, 2010 8:44 pm

awesomepossum wrote:this thread sure is long.

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Stringer Bell
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Re: Rarely talked about schools on TLS...

Postby Stringer Bell » Fri Feb 12, 2010 8:46 pm

whuts4lunch wrote:While I agree that Yale > ND full $$$, I disagree with your calculations. A Yale level student is more than 25% likely (a rational expectation I think) to be in the top 25% of the class. How much more likely than 25% is debatable. I figure a Yale level student will more often than not be able to crack top 25% at ND, but its all speculation. I'd say your calculations pose a worst case expectation for the ND full $$$ Yale acceptee.


Conversely, the other problem is that top 25% for a 160k job from ND seems generous given the posts in the employment threads. It seems to be more like top 5%-10% is necessary. Now things could (and likely will) be somewhat better for c/o 2013, but 25% still seems ambitious.

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Re: Rarely talked about schools on TLS...

Postby summerstar » Fri Feb 12, 2010 8:59 pm

reasonabledoubt wrote:
Ragged wrote:That would be any school outside of T14. And there is a good reason for that. Think about it.



You think about this: There are (even friends of people on these threads) Berkeley 3L's and grads without a job offer in sight while TTTT 3L's and grads in less saturated markets (I have several friend examples) are all set with secure jobs and offers.

I think it's worth talking about.... T-14 does not = instajob nor does it necessarily mean (a) better education (b) better long-term income potential (c) better lawyer (d) better anything, really.

In a recession, people, firms, etc, are looking for bargains.... "undervalued assets," so to speak. Lower tier grads might be considered undervalued assets. They also might consider the fact that a lower tier grad might be more likely to stick around for the long term as opposed to the prestige-obsessed top-tier grad who might skip out on the firm as soon as the economy recovers and he/she can sneak into biglaw.


or maybe they're just looking for normal human beings without a stick up their a--

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brigun
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Re: Rarely talked about schools on TLS...

Postby brigun » Fri Feb 12, 2010 9:09 pm

tkgrrett wrote:FWIW, I would turn down Yale for Harvard or Stanford without even a second thought... and if you/your family have so much money that you are getting zero dollars from Yale w/ need-based aid I doubt you are really all that worried about making the student loan payments..


TITCR

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Lawl Shcool
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Re: Rarely talked about schools on TLS...

Postby Lawl Shcool » Fri Feb 12, 2010 9:20 pm

.
Last edited by Lawl Shcool on Sat Feb 13, 2010 8:04 am, edited 1 time in total.

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brigun
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Re: Rarely talked about schools on TLS...

Postby brigun » Fri Feb 12, 2010 9:21 pm

On a more disturbing note, I got some spam from a Touro Law Center. I've never even heard of this place, so I'm pretty sure it fits the topic of this post. What is this all about?

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Mr. Matlock
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Re: Rarely talked about schools on TLS...

Postby Mr. Matlock » Fri Feb 12, 2010 10:00 pm

summerstar wrote:
reasonabledoubt wrote:
Ragged wrote:That would be any school outside of T14. And there is a good reason for that. Think about it.



You think about this: There are (even friends of people on these threads) Berkeley 3L's and grads without a job offer in sight while TTTT 3L's and grads in less saturated markets (I have several friend examples) are all set with secure jobs and offers.

I think it's worth talking about.... T-14 does not = instajob nor does it necessarily mean (a) better education (b) better long-term income potential (c) better lawyer (d) better anything, really.

In a recession, people, firms, etc, are looking for bargains.... "undervalued assets," so to speak. Lower tier grads might be considered undervalued assets. They also might consider the fact that a lower tier grad might be more likely to stick around for the long term as opposed to the prestige-obsessed top-tier grad who might skip out on the firm as soon as the economy recovers and he/she can sneak into biglaw.


or maybe they're just looking for normal human beings without a stick up their a--

Well, in reasonabledoubt's defense, he has listened to dozens of Yale educators on his ipod. (He has an ipod)

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reasonabledoubt
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Re: Rarely talked about schools on TLS...

Postby reasonabledoubt » Fri Feb 12, 2010 10:34 pm

Mr. Matlock wrote:
summerstar wrote:
reasonabledoubt wrote:
Ragged wrote:That would be any school outside of T14. And there is a good reason for that. Think about it.



You think about this: There are (even friends of people on these threads) Berkeley 3L's and grads without a job offer in sight while TTTT 3L's and grads in less saturated markets (I have several friend examples) are all set with secure jobs and offers.

I think it's worth talking about.... T-14 does not = instajob nor does it necessarily mean (a) better education (b) better long-term income potential (c) better lawyer (d) better anything, really.

In a recession, people, firms, etc, are looking for bargains.... "undervalued assets," so to speak. Lower tier grads might be considered undervalued assets. They also might consider the fact that a lower tier grad might be more likely to stick around for the long term as opposed to the prestige-obsessed top-tier grad who might skip out on the firm as soon as the economy recovers and he/she can sneak into biglaw.


or maybe they're just looking for normal human beings without a stick up their a--

Well, in reasonabledoubt's defense, he has listened to dozens of Yale educators on his ipod. (He has an ipod)



Itunes, Itunes Podcasts Matlock... yet another RC Fail ribbon for you. Itunes is that thing you download that you can listen to all sorts of interesting podcasts and alternative news and stuff on. This message was brought to you by Apple. ;)

Also, lol at the guy attempting to convince us through math while using a 160k "biglaw" salary for his calculations as though it's a thing called a "constant variable." Yeah, good luck with that in 2013.

I can envision it now... "Hello Partner sir, I have many things I would bring to this firm. For example, I got a high GPA on my easy undergrad major and then got a high LSAT test score because I studied for over a year and took a course and did a multitude of PT's which led me to Yale where I wasn't graded and now I have a Yale JD and 200k debt and I would definitely love to make 160k at your big law firm Mr. Partner Sir - "160K! I read it sir, that's what I want, I read it on real internet pixels and magazine statistics..... twitch, twitch." Partner: "double-facepalm" /interview.

Here's what I'm saying - you better be bringing something else to the table beside the name on you degree. It's about YOU - how you interview, how you look, (just being realistic here) how smart/savvy you seem in front of the hiring partner, what you've done with your summers, etc, etc. W/E prior to LS will also help. You can get a legal education from the public library if you were dedicated enough.... so my suggestion that it might be worth chatting about some of the lesser discussed schools on TLS shouldn't have been this controversial. Some people have to choose a school near where they live due to family/owning a home/etc.... maybe there's a few T2's in their region. Why not discuss these schools ITT?

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Mickey Quicknumbers
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Re: Rarely talked about schools on TLS...

Postby Mickey Quicknumbers » Fri Feb 12, 2010 10:44 pm

reasonabledoubt wrote:Itunes, Itunes Podcasts Matlock... yet another RC Fail ribbon for you. Itunes is that thing you download that you can listen to all sorts of interesting podcasts and alternative news and stuff on. This message was brought to you by Apple. ;)

Also, lol at the guy attempting to convince us through math while using a 160k "biglaw" salary for his calculations as though it's a thing called a "constant variable." Yeah, good luck with that in 2013.

I can envision it now... "Hello Partner sir, I have many things I would bring to this firm. For example, I got a high GPA on my easy undergrad major and then got a high LSAT test score because I studied for over a year and took a course and did a multitude of PT's which led me to Yale where I wasn't graded and now I have a Yale JD and 200k debt and I would definitely love to make 160k at your big law firm Mr. Partner Sir - "160K! I read it sir, that's what I want, I read it on real internet pixels and magazine statistics..... twitch, twitch." Partner: "double-facepalm" /interview.


Thanks for confirming. You are in fact an idiot.




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