Rarely talked about schools on TLS...

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09042014
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Re: Rarely talked about schools on TLS...

Postby 09042014 » Fri Feb 12, 2010 5:29 pm

reasonabledoubt wrote:
D. H2Oman wrote:
reasonabledoubt wrote:
This is as far as I'd go..... I'd have a HARD time picking sticker Yale over a full ride at IUB or Notre Dame, both of which are ranked on the dark side of the moon (20+) relative to T-14 whore standards. In fact, I'm sure I'd take ND free.



Good to know, now you have officially invalidated every opinion you will ever have


Enjoy your 200k debt then. Here's what people fail to consider.... I want to have an extremely fun 30's and 40's. I'm sure your Yale JD + whatever debt you had to incur to get it will EVENTUALLY pay off, but you might be struggling with student loan payments precisely at the time when someone who chose a debt-free route wouldn't be.

The Yale grad may retire and die with more money..... but the ND grad might have more fun with his wife and kids during his 30's and 40's which is the time that really matters, in my opinion. Student loan payments on a few hundred grand aren't going to be fun. You'll see. (this was all figurative example)



Median Yale grad salary - student loan payments > median ND grad salary

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D. H2Oman
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Re: Rarely talked about schools on TLS...

Postby D. H2Oman » Fri Feb 12, 2010 5:29 pm

reasonabledoubt wrote:
Stringer Bell wrote:
reasonabledoubt wrote:Enjoy your 200k debt then.


Dude, seriously, what industry do you work in? Do you even understand things like ROI?


Do you understand the value of TIME?



WHAT IS REALITY?

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kittenmittons
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Re: Rarely talked about schools on TLS...

Postby kittenmittons » Fri Feb 12, 2010 5:30 pm

D. H2Oman wrote:
reasonabledoubt wrote:
Stringer Bell wrote:
reasonabledoubt wrote:Enjoy your 200k debt then.


Dude, seriously, what industry do you work in? Do you even understand things like ROI?


Do you understand the value of TIME?



WHAT IS REALITY?


TIME CUBE

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reasonabledoubt
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Re: Rarely talked about schools on TLS...

Postby reasonabledoubt » Fri Feb 12, 2010 5:32 pm

Uh oh - I know where this is going - thread destruction in T-minus 5,4,3,2......

oneforship
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Re: Rarely talked about schools on TLS...

Postby oneforship » Fri Feb 12, 2010 5:32 pm

reasonabledoubt wrote:Uh oh - I know where this is going - thread destruction in T-minus 5,4,3,2......


Dude, the thread was destroyed when you posted this:

reasonabledoubt wrote:In a dual effort to establish a more complete library of info relating to schools as well as expose a few "sleepers" in the accredited LS mix, I introduce this thread.

This is for chatting about those schools which no one seems to chat about here.....

Surely there's some good ones out there that don't get the TLS press coverage they deserve.... maybe there's a few T3's (or, gasp, TTTT's) that someone had a friend or family member who had gone there and they have great information on. Maybe you grew up around XXX school that's a T3 but enjoys a remarkable level of prestige and placement in a 30 square mile radius of wherever, USA. Believe it or not, this kind of stuff appeals to some people.

I'll start: Valparaiso U. Yes, a T-4, but it's about an hour out of Chicago and has some pretty impressive faculty. As an aside, G-dubya Bush spoke at the school's anniversay a few years ago. They were once called, "the poor man's harvard," but not sure if that's a relatively good or bad thing. In any case, I've had a few friends go to this school (as well as some of their parents) and they're all doing remarkably well. It seems to place well in NWI region as well as Chicago. Who else has some hidden gems to speak of?

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reasonabledoubt
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Re: Rarely talked about schools on TLS...

Postby reasonabledoubt » Fri Feb 12, 2010 5:33 pm

Desert Fox wrote:
reasonabledoubt wrote:
D. H2Oman wrote:
reasonabledoubt wrote:
This is as far as I'd go..... I'd have a HARD time picking sticker Yale over a full ride at IUB or Notre Dame, both of which are ranked on the dark side of the moon (20+) relative to T-14 whore standards. In fact, I'm sure I'd take ND free.



Good to know, now you have officially invalidated every opinion you will ever have


Enjoy your 200k debt then. Here's what people fail to consider.... I want to have an extremely fun 30's and 40's. I'm sure your Yale JD + whatever debt you had to incur to get it will EVENTUALLY pay off, but you might be struggling with student loan payments precisely at the time when someone who chose a debt-free route wouldn't be.

The Yale grad may retire and die with more money..... but the ND grad might have more fun with his wife and kids during his 30's and 40's which is the time that really matters, in my opinion. Student loan payments on a few hundred grand aren't going to be fun. You'll see. (this was all figurative example)



Median Yale grad salary - student loan payments > median ND grad salary


There are lies, damned lies and statistics/median salary figures. I'm not one to base life decisions on sketchy stats.

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Stringer Bell
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Re: Rarely talked about schools on TLS...

Postby Stringer Bell » Fri Feb 12, 2010 5:33 pm

reasonabledoubt wrote:
Stringer Bell wrote:
reasonabledoubt wrote:Enjoy your 200k debt then.


Dude, seriously, what industry do you work in? Do you even understand things like ROI?


Do you understand the value of TIME?


Yes. And that's why if I spend 3 years of my life working my butt off and earning nothing, I'd like to feel as confident as possible that I will have a job afterwards. If you don't want biglaw from Yale there is LRAP.
Last edited by Stringer Bell on Fri Feb 12, 2010 5:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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TTTennis
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Re: Rarely talked about schools on TLS...

Postby TTTennis » Fri Feb 12, 2010 5:33 pm

Stringer Bell wrote:
reasonabledoubt wrote:Enjoy your 200k debt then.


Dude, seriously, what industry do you work in? Do you even understand things like ROI?


Hold up. Taking a school in the top 20-30 for free over somewhere like Yale for full-price can hardly warrant a "do you even understand things like return of investment." if you go to a T-20 to 30 school for free, your only opportunity cost is the three year's salary you gave up. Graduate high in your class and you can still come out with that high-paying job. That makes your ROI pretty darn good. Going to Yale? Giving up three years of salary plus $200K. Granted you have a way better chance of getting the high paying job, but it's not guaranteed and you have a lot more debt. You never know what the ROI would be.

With that being said, I would take Yale at full price over any school in the top 20-30 for free. :D

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kittenmittons
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Re: Rarely talked about schools on TLS...

Postby kittenmittons » Fri Feb 12, 2010 5:33 pm

reasonabledoubt wrote:There are lies, damned lies and statistics/median salary figures. I'm not one to base life decisions on sketchy stats.


Yeah, ND salary figures are inflated

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Mr. Matlock
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Re: Rarely talked about schools on TLS...

Postby Mr. Matlock » Fri Feb 12, 2010 5:35 pm

reasonabledoubt wrote:Uh oh - I know where this is going - thread destruction in T-minus 5,4,3,2......

Thread destruction was 1st post of the thread. Everything after that has just been a bunch of dudes yapping while pissing into a trough.

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bceagles182
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Re: Rarely talked about schools on TLS...

Postby bceagles182 » Fri Feb 12, 2010 5:35 pm

I don't see anything wrong with someone who is extremely debt/risk averse and/or someone who wants to work in PI going to the best school that they go to for free if it happens to be where they want to practice over HYLS at sticker. I'm not saying I would do it, or really even consider it unless I was going into PI, but I could see someone doing it.
Last edited by bceagles182 on Fri Feb 12, 2010 5:37 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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TTTennis
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Re: Rarely talked about schools on TLS...

Postby TTTennis » Fri Feb 12, 2010 5:36 pm

cdd_04 wrote:Hold up. Taking a school in the top 20-30 for free over somewhere like Yale for full-price can hardly warrant a "do you even understand things like return [strike]of[/strike] on investment." if you go to a T-20 to 30 school for free, your only opportunity cost is the three year's salary you gave up. Graduate high in your class and you can still come out with that high-paying job. That makes your ROI pretty darn good. Going to Yale? Giving up three years of salary plus $200K. Granted you have a way better chance of getting the high paying job, but it's not guaranteed and you have a lot more debt. You never know what the ROI would be.

With that being said, I would take Yale at full price over any school in the top 20-30 for free. :D


fixed

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Stringer Bell
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Re: Rarely talked about schools on TLS...

Postby Stringer Bell » Fri Feb 12, 2010 5:39 pm

cdd_04 wrote:Hold up. Taking a school in the top 20-30 for free over somewhere like Yale for full-price can hardly warrant a "do you even understand things like return of investment." if you go to a T-20 to 30 school for free, your only opportunity cost is the three year's salary you gave up. Graduate high in your class and you can still come out with that high-paying job. That makes your ROI pretty darn good. Going to Yale? Giving up three years of salary plus $200K. Granted you have a way better chance of getting the high paying job, but it's not guaranteed and you have a lot more debt. You never know what the ROI would be.


200k invested in Yale has a much better expected return than 40k spent at ND and a lifetime of high earnings easily can justify a 200k investment is what I am saying. And yes, I understand that the highest upside would be to take the free tuition at ND, pwn, then get a good job. For someone that enjoyed risk, this scenario would be the choice to take.

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gochrisgo
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Re: Rarely talked about schools on TLS...

Postby gochrisgo » Fri Feb 12, 2010 5:39 pm

_
Last edited by gochrisgo on Mon Feb 15, 2010 5:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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JusticeHarlan
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Re: Rarely talked about schools on TLS...

Postby JusticeHarlan » Fri Feb 12, 2010 5:40 pm

bceagles182 wrote:I don't see anything wrong with someone who is extremely debt/risk averse and/or someone who wants to work in PI going to the best school that they go to for free if it happens to be where they want to practice over HYLS at sticker. i'm not saying I would do it, or really even consider it unless I was going to PI, but I could see someone doing it.

If you wanted to do PI from Yale, you would (1) probably have better access to jobs then someone from somewhere lower ranked, and (2) would pay virtually nothing for law school: http://www.law.yale.edu/admissions/COAP.htm

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reasonabledoubt
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Re: Rarely talked about schools on TLS...

Postby reasonabledoubt » Fri Feb 12, 2010 5:41 pm

cdd_04 wrote:
Stringer Bell wrote:
reasonabledoubt wrote:Enjoy your 200k debt then.


Dude, seriously, what industry do you work in? Do you even understand things like ROI?


Hold up. Taking a school in the top 20-30 for free over somewhere like Yale for full-price can hardly warrant a "do you even understand things like return of investment." if you go to a T-20 to 30 school for free, your only opportunity cost is the three year's salary you gave up. Graduate high in your class and you can still come out with that high-paying job. That makes your ROI pretty darn good. Going to Yale? Giving up three years of salary plus $200K. Granted you have a way better chance of getting the high paying job, but it's not guaranteed and you have a lot more debt. You never know what the ROI would be.

With that being said, I would take Yale at full price over any school in the top 20-30 for free. :D


Thank you, that was a rational response. I would pick the top 20-30 for free over Y but I respect your decision and perspective as well.

See, this is how normal, non-trolls, do it.

09042014
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Re: Rarely talked about schools on TLS...

Postby 09042014 » Fri Feb 12, 2010 5:43 pm

ITT People don't understand expected value.

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bceagles182
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Re: Rarely talked about schools on TLS...

Postby bceagles182 » Fri Feb 12, 2010 5:44 pm

JusticeHarlan wrote:
bceagles182 wrote:I don't see anything wrong with someone who is extremely debt/risk averse and/or someone who wants to work in PI going to the best school that they go to for free if it happens to be where they want to practice over HYLS at sticker. i'm not saying I would do it, or really even consider it unless I was going to PI, but I could see someone doing it.

If you wanted to do PI from Yale, you would (1) probably have better access to jobs then someone from somewhere lower ranked, and (2) would pay virtually nothing for law school: http://www.law.yale.edu/admissions/COAP.htm


Fair enough. I didn't know about that since I've never been dellusional enought to think I could get into Yale. That said, I could still see someone who is extremely risk-averse and who doesn't have any desire for Big Law passing up Yale for a full ride. for instance, if someone had a family to support and a mortage.

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Stringer Bell
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Re: Rarely talked about schools on TLS...

Postby Stringer Bell » Fri Feb 12, 2010 5:46 pm

bceagles182 wrote:Fair enough. I didn't know about that since I've never been dellusional enought to think I could get into Yale. That said, I could still see someone who is extremely [strike]risk-averse[/strike] risky and felt there was no way they wouldn't make good grades passing up Yale for a full ride. for instance, if someone had a family to support and a mortage.


Fixed

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chadwick218
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Re: Rarely talked about schools on TLS...

Postby chadwick218 » Fri Feb 12, 2010 5:47 pm

UVA ... on a more serious note, the # of GW related threads certainly seems to be down over prior years.

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Stringer Bell
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Re: Rarely talked about schools on TLS...

Postby Stringer Bell » Fri Feb 12, 2010 5:49 pm

chadwick218 wrote:UVA ... on a more serious note, the # of GW related threads certainly seems to be down over prior years.


There is this school in Michigan called Cooley no one ever seems to talk about here.

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JusticeHarlan
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Re: Rarely talked about schools on TLS...

Postby JusticeHarlan » Fri Feb 12, 2010 5:50 pm

bceagles182 wrote:
JusticeHarlan wrote:
bceagles182 wrote:I don't see anything wrong with someone who is extremely debt/risk averse and/or someone who wants to work in PI going to the best school that they go to for free if it happens to be where they want to practice over HYLS at sticker. i'm not saying I would do it, or really even consider it unless I was going to PI, but I could see someone doing it.

If you wanted to do PI from Yale, you would (1) probably have better access to jobs then someone from somewhere lower ranked, and (2) would pay virtually nothing for law school: http://www.law.yale.edu/admissions/COAP.htm


Fair enough. I didn't know about that since I've never been dellusional enought to think I could get into Yale. That said, I could still see someone who is extremely risk-averse passing up Yale for a full ride. for instance, if someone had a family to support and a mortage.

Oh, I can see that too. Full ride is certain (except the possible GPA requirment), LARP could change. A very risk averse person might take money up front.

(Though, to be fair, the Yale program does "deduct retirement savings, childcare costs, etc" from your effective income, so you'd get a break for the kids, don't know about the mortgage.)

I still think that, for the majority of people, turning down Yale if you were gifted and fortunate enough to get in is a bad move.

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TTTennis
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Re: Rarely talked about schools on TLS...

Postby TTTennis » Fri Feb 12, 2010 5:51 pm

Desert Fox wrote:ITT People don't understand expected value.


Not quite sure what you are trying to say with this. I think you are saying Yale has a much higher expected value over somewhere like ND. However, I'm not sure you can really look at unreliable data (such as reported average median starting salaries) and use that as expected. Especially considering schools in the top 20-30 often only report median starting salaries 20-40K below place like HYS. If you are going to said 20-30 ranked school for free and HYS for sticker, I'm not sure the ROI is that much greater (way too lazy to do the math) considering your salary after your first 2-3 legal jobs is widely dependent on factors that have little to do with where you went to law school.

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Re: Rarely talked about schools on TLS...

Postby TTTennis » Fri Feb 12, 2010 5:53 pm

cdd_04 wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:ITT People don't understand expected value.


Not quite sure what you are trying to say with this. I think you are saying Yale has a much higher expected value over somewhere like ND. However, I'm not sure you can really look at unreliable data (such as reported average median starting salaries) and use that as expected. Especially considering schools in the top 20-30 often only report median starting salaries 20-40K below place like HYS. If you are going to said 20-30 ranked school for free and HYS for sticker, I'm not sure the ROI is that much greater (way too lazy to do the math) considering your salary after your first 2-3 legal jobs is widely dependent on factors that have little to do with where you went to law school.


Edit: Perhaps I meant years, or I assumed you would be at those 2-3 legal jobs for a relatively short amount of time, haha.

09042014
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Re: Rarely talked about schools on TLS...

Postby 09042014 » Fri Feb 12, 2010 5:55 pm

cdd_04 wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:ITT People don't understand expected value.


Not quite sure what you are trying to say with this. I think you are saying Yale has a much higher expected value over somewhere like ND. However, I'm not sure you can really look at unreliable data (such as reported average median starting salaries) and use that as expected. Especially considering schools in the top 20-30 often only report median starting salaries 20-40K below place like HYS. If you are going to said 20-30 ranked school for free and HYS for sticker, I'm not sure the ROI is that much greater (way too lazy to do the math) considering your salary after your first 2-3 legal jobs is widely dependent on factors that have little to do with where you went to law school.


But it is based off your first legal job, which is based off where you went to school.

Top20% of ND grads can get big law jobs ITE, and 100% of Yale grads can.




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