HYP undergrads vs. HYS 0Ls

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fortissimo
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Re: HYP undergrads vs. HYS 0Ls

Postby fortissimo » Fri Feb 12, 2010 1:34 pm

Desert Fox wrote:
fortissimo wrote:
rayiner wrote:
msoftceo wrote:H is pretty crappy in computer science, but it still wouldn't surprise since Zuckerberg came from H.


Harvard's EECS department is a rancid TTT. I haven't read a soaped out of there that wasn't based on some blatantly obvious idea. They're ranked too high even at 44 or whatever they are.


One of my closest friends from high school studied Computer Science and Physics at Harvard. He was nationally ranked in the American math competition, got a 1600 on the SAT, took linear algebra as a high school senior (he tested a 5 on Calc BC as a high school sophomore, so he started taking university math courses), but still struggled maintaining a decent GPA against his classmates at Harvard because he was lazy...the department may not be that high ranked but the students in the science fields at Harvard are still very competitive (and probably far more competitive than those in the liberal arts).

(He got into every single university he applied to (HYPS), including Cal-tech with a full-ride, except for MIT. Even though he got a hefty scholarship from Harvard, he was rejected at MIT. This is partly why I think MIT>>HYPS in terms of caliber of students. It's just a lot harder to get in.)


Picking Harvard over a full ride at CalTech for physics is ridiculous.

Also I don't care how brilliant you are, if you slack off in hard science or engineering you will get owned by the curve. Even at a TTT engineering school.


He got a scholarship to Harvard, but the main reason he turned Cal-tech down was because he visited and thought the students were too weird. (Cal-tech is a VERY small school too.) He also liked Cambridge and Harvard students just seemed a lot more normal.

He is very, very brilliant, but he's not the typical CS/Physics geek at all. He has a decent amount of friends and is very laid-back and decently social. He loved doing normal things. (We used to stay up on school nights watching movies until 5 am even though we had 7 am class, late-night bowling, etc.) He never really had to try that hard because he's very gifted in math and science and I think that Cal-tech has a lot of "work until you drop" really geeky types that come off as what he called "weird."

I also agree with you that taking tons of math in high school and doing well on easy AP tests doesn't necessarily mean you are a genius. However scoring in the top 5 nationally on the AMC probably means you are a genius...That test is very conceptual and not at all like math you learn in school. You can practice with certain problems, but I think the AMC mainly tests you on innate ability. (I also took the AMC in high school which is why I know about its problems.) My friend was ranked #1 in the state twice in high school on the AMC. (Some other kid a year below us who studied Physics at Stanford got #1 twice in the state.)
Last edited by fortissimo on Fri Feb 12, 2010 1:42 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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crackberry
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Re: HYP undergrads vs. HYS 0Ls

Postby crackberry » Fri Feb 12, 2010 1:41 pm

fortissimo wrote:He got a scholarship to Harvard, but the main reason he turned Cal-tech down was because he visited and thought the students were too weird. (Cal-tech is a VERY small school too.) He also liked Cambridge and Harvard students just seemed a lot more normal.

He is very, very brilliant, but he's not the typical CS/Physics geek at all. He has a decent amount of friends and is very laid-back and decently social. He loved doing normal things. (We used to stay up on school nights watching movies until 5 am even though we had 7 am class, late-night bowling, etc.) He never really had to try that hard because he's very gifted in math and science and I think that Cal-tech has a lot of "work until you drop" really geeky types that come off as what he called "weird."

I also agree with you that taking tons of math in high school and doing well on easy AP tests doesn't necessarily mean you are a genius. However scoring in the top 5 nationally on the AMC probably means you are a genius...That test is very conceptual and not at all like math you learn in school. You can practice with certain problems, but I think the AMC mainly tests you on innate ability. My friend was ranked #1 in the state twice in high school on the AMC. (Some other kid a year below us who studied Physics at Stanford got #1 twice in the state.)

Probably shoulda gone to Stanford. Though if he couldn't hack it at Harvard science/CS, he definitely wouldn't have been able to do it at Stanford.

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Stringer Bell
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Re: HYP undergrads vs. HYS 0Ls

Postby Stringer Bell » Fri Feb 12, 2010 1:43 pm

rayiner wrote:Anecdotally, I think MIT is the hardest school to get into. I know lots of HYP people that got rejected at MIT. You basically need an 800 SAT math + substantial research in HS.


UG admissions are funny sometimes though. I knew someone that got accepted to MIT and rejected by Rice.

fortissimo
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Re: HYP undergrads vs. HYS 0Ls

Postby fortissimo » Fri Feb 12, 2010 1:43 pm

crackberry wrote:
fortissimo wrote:He got a scholarship to Harvard, but the main reason he turned Cal-tech down was because he visited and thought the students were too weird. (Cal-tech is a VERY small school too.) He also liked Cambridge and Harvard students just seemed a lot more normal.

He is very, very brilliant, but he's not the typical CS/Physics geek at all. He has a decent amount of friends and is very laid-back and decently social. He loved doing normal things. (We used to stay up on school nights watching movies until 5 am even though we had 7 am class, late-night bowling, etc.) He never really had to try that hard because he's very gifted in math and science and I think that Cal-tech has a lot of "work until you drop" really geeky types that come off as what he called "weird."

I also agree with you that taking tons of math in high school and doing well on easy AP tests doesn't necessarily mean you are a genius. However scoring in the top 5 nationally on the AMC probably means you are a genius...That test is very conceptual and not at all like math you learn in school. You can practice with certain problems, but I think the AMC mainly tests you on innate ability. My friend was ranked #1 in the state twice in high school on the AMC. (Some other kid a year below us who studied Physics at Stanford got #1 twice in the state.)

Probably shoulda gone to Stanford. Though if he couldn't hack it at Harvard science/CS, he definitely wouldn't have been able to do it at Stanford.


... :roll: Do you ever stop trolling? He liked Harvard much more on his visit which is why he went there. He was a slacker, not that he couldn't "hack it" intellectually. It's not as if Stanford students are a lot smarter than Harvard students by any measure either. :roll: After all, how well you do on the curve depends not on the rank of your department (none of the top profs teach undergrads at pretty much any school except for LACs and probably MIT/Cal-tech and the latter is questionable), but your classmates' abilities. He probably would have fared the same (3.0+ GPA btw, not horrible btw, I'd like to see a liberal arts major even pass the 3.0 mark), given a similar curve.

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Re: HYP undergrads vs. HYS 0Ls

Postby rayiner » Fri Feb 12, 2010 1:49 pm

crackberry wrote:Why would any good CS high school student pick Harvard over CalTech or Stanford? That makes NO sense.


My brother picked Y over Caltech for physics. Have you seen the girls at Caltech?

He would've taken S though if he'd gotten in.

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Re: HYP undergrads vs. HYS 0Ls

Postby starstruck393 » Fri Feb 12, 2010 1:51 pm

rayiner wrote:
crackberry wrote:Why would any good CS high school student pick Harvard over CalTech or Stanford? That makes NO sense.


My brother picked Y over Caltech for physics. Have you seen the girls at Caltech?

He would've taken S though if he'd gotten in.


There are girls at Caltech?

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Re: HYP undergrads vs. HYS 0Ls

Postby fortissimo » Fri Feb 12, 2010 1:52 pm

starstruck393 wrote:
rayiner wrote:
crackberry wrote:Why would any good CS high school student pick Harvard over CalTech or Stanford? That makes NO sense.


My brother picked Y over Caltech for physics. Have you seen the girls at Caltech?

He would've taken S though if he'd gotten in.


There are girls at Caltech?


From the waist down, yes.

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crackberry
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Re: HYP undergrads vs. HYS 0Ls

Postby crackberry » Fri Feb 12, 2010 1:55 pm

Yes I am a Stanford troll, but you are a Harvard troll so that's a wash.

Also Stanford is better at CS/physics, etc. than Harvard. That's just a fact.

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Re: HYP undergrads vs. HYS 0Ls

Postby fortissimo » Fri Feb 12, 2010 2:11 pm

crackberry wrote:Yes I am a Stanford troll, but you are a Harvard troll so that's a wash.

Also Stanford is better at CS/physics, etc. than Harvard. That's just a fact.


Rankings only matter for graduate school. For undergrad at most schools you are frequently taught by TAs/GSIs, and non-tenured lecturers. For undergrad, rankings are pretty much irrelevant since you will largely be self-taught unless you go to a small LAC or "Tech" school. Your insinuation that my friend "definitely" couldn't cut it at Stanford doesn't even make sense because you are curved against your classmates, and Stanford students are not any more competitive than Harvard students.
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Re: HYP undergrads vs. HYS 0Ls

Postby Na_Swatch » Fri Feb 12, 2010 2:12 pm

Desert Fox wrote:
Na_Swatch wrote:
fortissimo wrote:
One of my closest friends from high school studied Computer Science and Physics at Harvard. He was nationally ranked in the American math competition, got a 1600 on the SAT, took linear algebra as a high school senior (he tested a 5 on Calc BC as a high school sophomore, so he started taking university math courses), but still struggled maintaining a decent GPA against his classmates at Harvard because he was lazy...the department may not be that high ranked but the students in the science fields at Harvard are still very competitive (and probably far more competitive than those in the liberal arts).

(He got into every single university he applied to (HYPS), including Cal-tech with a full-ride, except for MIT. Even though he got a hefty scholarship from Harvard, he was rejected at MIT. This is partly why I think MIT>>HYPS in terms of caliber of students. It's just a lot harder to get in.)


Ehh just anecdotally I think Harvard's top UG math students are probably best in the nation, at least on scale of MIT just because the name can attract huge talent. For example the guy above isn't that impressive.. at my school there were several others like me on the same track.. 5's on both BC Calc and AP Stat sophmore year... then Multivariable/Discrete/Linear Algebra and more at a T30 University for junior/senior years.

However, there was one guy who was truly a genius... he was a grade below me and 3 years ahead of me in terms of math level (finished calculus in middle school).. so given that I graduated with a minor in math.. he had completed basically a major in math by the time he was done with HS. In fact he was probably among top 5 math students in the entire nation given that he was on the AMC national team that went overseas to compete (basically the 5 winners of the entire nationwide AMC competition). He was accepted into every UG and chose Harvard over MIT... and Harvard has some extremely difficult math classes that cross admit MIT students. So yeah, I've heard the computer science is't too great there but the Math/Physics probably has some really intelligent students.


I wouldn't judge someone's genius based on them being ahead of you in school. IMO anyone who can do Calculus in college, could have learned it in middle school. Math education wastes numerous years going over the same old shit year after year.


lol, your just an rabid anti-math troll aren't you? I didn't say anything about my genius, it is pretty easy to take Calculus way early, even in middle school.

However, you missed the part about top 5 in the nation. Even now at 20+ I doubt I could do more than a handful of the questions they ask on the final round of the AMC exam. Getting into the national competition team for the US means you are the best among all math students in a nation of 300 million.

Of course they all get crushed by the China and India teams. 1 billion + and decent work ethic kind of holds the advantage :lol: .

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Re: HYP undergrads vs. HYS 0Ls

Postby fortissimo » Fri Feb 12, 2010 2:17 pm

Na_Swatch wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
Na_Swatch wrote:
fortissimo wrote:
One of my closest friends from high school studied Computer Science and Physics at Harvard. He was nationally ranked in the American math competition, got a 1600 on the SAT, took linear algebra as a high school senior (he tested a 5 on Calc BC as a high school sophomore, so he started taking university math courses), but still struggled maintaining a decent GPA against his classmates at Harvard because he was lazy...the department may not be that high ranked but the students in the science fields at Harvard are still very competitive (and probably far more competitive than those in the liberal arts).

(He got into every single university he applied to (HYPS), including Cal-tech with a full-ride, except for MIT. Even though he got a hefty scholarship from Harvard, he was rejected at MIT. This is partly why I think MIT>>HYPS in terms of caliber of students. It's just a lot harder to get in.)


Ehh just anecdotally I think Harvard's top UG math students are probably best in the nation, at least on scale of MIT just because the name can attract huge talent. For example the guy above isn't that impressive.. at my school there were several others like me on the same track.. 5's on both BC Calc and AP Stat sophmore year... then Multivariable/Discrete/Linear Algebra and more at a T30 University for junior/senior years.

However, there was one guy who was truly a genius... he was a grade below me and 3 years ahead of me in terms of math level (finished calculus in middle school).. so given that I graduated with a minor in math.. he had completed basically a major in math by the time he was done with HS. In fact he was probably among top 5 math students in the entire nation given that he was on the AMC national team that went overseas to compete (basically the 5 winners of the entire nationwide AMC competition). He was accepted into every UG and chose Harvard over MIT... and Harvard has some extremely difficult math classes that cross admit MIT students. So yeah, I've heard the computer science is't too great there but the Math/Physics probably has some really intelligent students.


I wouldn't judge someone's genius based on them being ahead of you in school. IMO anyone who can do Calculus in college, could have learned it in middle school. Math education wastes numerous years going over the same old shit year after year.


lol, your just an rabid anti-math troll aren't you? I didn't say anything about my genius, it is pretty easy to take Calculus way early, even in middle school.

However, you missed the part about top 5 in the nation. Even now at 20+ I doubt I could do more than a handful of the questions they ask on the final round of the AMC exam. Getting into the national competition team for the US means you are the best among all math students in a nation of 300 million.

Of course they all get crushed by the China and India teams. 1 billion + and decent work ethic kind of holds the advantage :lol: .


Maybe he hasn't seen the AMC problems. I took the AMC 12 in high school and I think I scored a 110, which is okay ( a score of 100+ equates to the top 5%), but I think my friend scored a 140 or something like that, which is absolutely insane since I think the max is 150. This means he was in the top .1% or whatever. The problems are not typical math problems at all. They are very, very different and much harder than pussy Calc BC. Getting top 5 in the nation is just ridiculously impressive (genius level).
Last edited by fortissimo on Fri Feb 12, 2010 7:07 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: HYP undergrads vs. HYS 0Ls

Postby Na_Swatch » Fri Feb 12, 2010 2:20 pm

fortissimo wrote:Maybe he hasn't seen the AMC problems. I took the AMC 12 in high school and I think I scored a 110, which is okay ( a score of 100+ equates to the top 5%), but I think my friend scored a 140 or something like that, which is absolutely insane since I think the max is 150. This means he was in the top .1% or whatever. The problems are not typical math problems at all. They are very, very different and much harder than pussy Calc BC.


Oh the AMC 10 and AMC 12 are pretty easy. Its the one that comes after that (right before the final one) that is absolutely insane. I passed the AMC 12 a couple times, but always laughed at the next one. Just sat there and napped for 3 hours because there was no way I was doing more than one question on it. Closest thing I can equate it to was like proof based graduate level stuff.

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Re: HYP undergrads vs. HYS 0Ls

Postby fortissimo » Fri Feb 12, 2010 2:22 pm

Na_Swatch wrote:
fortissimo wrote:Maybe he hasn't seen the AMC problems. I took the AMC 12 in high school and I think I scored a 110, which is okay ( a score of 100+ equates to the top 5%), but I think my friend scored a 140 or something like that, which is absolutely insane since I think the max is 150. This means he was in the top .1% or whatever. The problems are not typical math problems at all. They are very, very different and much harder than pussy Calc BC.


Oh the AMC 10 and AMC 12 are pretty easy. Its the one that comes after that (right before the final one) that is absolutely insane. I passed the AMC 12 a couple times, but always laughed at the next one. Just sat there and napped for 3 hours because there was no way I was doing more than one question on it. Closest thing I can equate it to was like proof based graduate level stuff.


What score did you need on the AMC 12 to take the next one? 130? Maybe I am confusing AMC 12 with something else...this test is for high school right?

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Re: HYP undergrads vs. HYS 0Ls

Postby Na_Swatch » Fri Feb 12, 2010 2:25 pm

fortissimo wrote:
Na_Swatch wrote:
fortissimo wrote:Maybe he hasn't seen the AMC problems. I took the AMC 12 in high school and I think I scored a 110, which is okay ( a score of 100+ equates to the top 5%), but I think my friend scored a 140 or something like that, which is absolutely insane since I think the max is 150. This means he was in the top .1% or whatever. The problems are not typical math problems at all. They are very, very different and much harder than pussy Calc BC.


Oh the AMC 10 and AMC 12 are pretty easy. Its the one that comes after that (right before the final one) that is absolutely insane. I passed the AMC 12 a couple times, but always laughed at the next one. Just sat there and napped for 3 hours because there was no way I was doing more than one question on it. Closest thing I can equate it to was like proof based graduate level stuff.


What score did you need on the AMC 12 to take the next one? 130?


Hmm I don't remember.. like 120? You can also get to the next level going from AMC 8 -> AMC 10 -> next level.

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Re: HYP undergrads vs. HYS 0Ls

Postby englawyer » Fri Feb 12, 2010 2:26 pm

Na_Swatch wrote:
fortissimo wrote:
Na_Swatch wrote:
fortissimo wrote:Maybe he hasn't seen the AMC problems. I took the AMC 12 in high school and I think I scored a 110, which is okay ( a score of 100+ equates to the top 5%), but I think my friend scored a 140 or something like that, which is absolutely insane since I think the max is 150. This means he was in the top .1% or whatever. The problems are not typical math problems at all. They are very, very different and much harder than pussy Calc BC.


Oh the AMC 10 and AMC 12 are pretty easy. Its the one that comes after that (right before the final one) that is absolutely insane. I passed the AMC 12 a couple times, but always laughed at the next one. Just sat there and napped for 3 hours because there was no way I was doing more than one question on it. Closest thing I can equate it to was like proof based graduate level stuff.


What score did you need on the AMC 12 to take the next one? 130?


Hmm I don't remember.. like 120? You can also get to the next level going from AMC 8 -> AMC 10 -> next level.


haha TLS math competition incoming??

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Re: HYP undergrads vs. HYS 0Ls

Postby fortissimo » Fri Feb 12, 2010 2:29 pm

Na_Swatch wrote:
fortissimo wrote:
Na_Swatch wrote:
fortissimo wrote:Maybe he hasn't seen the AMC problems. I took the AMC 12 in high school and I think I scored a 110, which is okay ( a score of 100+ equates to the top 5%), but I think my friend scored a 140 or something like that, which is absolutely insane since I think the max is 150. This means he was in the top .1% or whatever. The problems are not typical math problems at all. They are very, very different and much harder than pussy Calc BC.


Oh the AMC 10 and AMC 12 are pretty easy. Its the one that comes after that (right before the final one) that is absolutely insane. I passed the AMC 12 a couple times, but always laughed at the next one. Just sat there and napped for 3 hours because there was no way I was doing more than one question on it. Closest thing I can equate it to was like proof based graduate level stuff.


What score did you need on the AMC 12 to take the next one? 130?


Hmm I don't remember.. like 120? You can also get to the next level going from AMC 8 -> AMC 10 -> next level.


hmmm. I wonder how my friend fared on the next test. I just know he got a ~140 on the AMC 12(?), which was the highest in the state. Some other kid would always compete with him though. I think this kid (year below us) ended up with a score over 140 after we graduated. Considering the max is 150 (and how any score 100+ is top 5%), that's pretty impressive.

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Re: HYP undergrads vs. HYS 0Ls

Postby georgina » Fri Feb 12, 2010 4:49 pm

omg you guys are silly.

it's: AMC (formerly AHSME) -> AIME -> MOSP -> IMO
4-5 people are on the IMO team each year.

this has become a ridiculous thread. too many opinions, too little substantiation.
HYPSMC are all great schools in different ways. there are many reasons why one could choose any one of those over any of the others. from now on, when i post my school, i'm going to put HYPSM. and i'm sure someone's going to say, oh you so went to mit, who else would feel the ridiculous need to tack M onto the end (i left out C because i imagine very few caltech grads go to law school).

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Re: HYP undergrads vs. HYS 0Ls

Postby Na_Swatch » Fri Feb 12, 2010 4:51 pm

georgina wrote:omg you guys are silly.

it's: AMC (formerly AHSME) -> AIME -> MOSP -> IMO
4-5 people are on the IMO team each year.

this has become a ridiculous thread. too many opinions, too little substantiation.
HYPSMC are all great schools in different ways. there are many reasons why one could choose any one of those over any of the others. from now on, when i post my school, i'm going to put HYPSM. and i'm sure someone's going to say, oh you so went to mit, who else would feel the ridiculous need to tack M onto the end (i left out C because i imagine very few caltech grads go to law school).


ohh yeah those were the names, yep that guy at my school was one of those on the IMO team.


And I agree the thread is silly.

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Re: HYP undergrads vs. HYS 0Ls

Postby englawyer » Fri Feb 12, 2010 6:04 pm

Na_Swatch wrote:
georgina wrote:omg you guys are silly.

it's: AMC (formerly AHSME) -> AIME -> MOSP -> IMO
4-5 people are on the IMO team each year.

this has become a ridiculous thread. too many opinions, too little substantiation.
HYPSMC are all great schools in different ways. there are many reasons why one could choose any one of those over any of the others. from now on, when i post my school, i'm going to put HYPSM. and i'm sure someone's going to say, oh you so went to mit, who else would feel the ridiculous need to tack M onto the end (i left out C because i imagine very few caltech grads go to law school).


ohh yeah those were the names, yep that guy at my school was one of those on the IMO team.


And I agree the thread is silly.


impressive. what does he do now? wall st quant? math phd?

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Re: HYP undergrads vs. HYS 0Ls

Postby ConMan345 » Fri Feb 12, 2010 6:15 pm

fortissimo wrote:[

Maybe he hasn't seen the AMC problems. I took the AMC 12 in high school and I think I scored a 110, which is okay ( a score of 100+ equates to the top 5%), but I think my friend scored a 140 or something like that, which is absolutely insane since I think the max is 150. This means he was in the top .1% or whatever. The problems are not typical math problems at all. They are very, very different and much harder than pussy Calc BC. Getting top 5% in the nation is just ridiculously impressive (genius level).


lol

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Unemployed
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Re: HYP undergrads vs. HYS 0Ls

Postby Unemployed » Fri Feb 12, 2010 6:26 pm

LOL at trolls for schools that don't need trolling.
Last edited by Unemployed on Fri Feb 12, 2010 6:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: HYP undergrads vs. HYS 0Ls

Postby Ethan Edwards » Fri Feb 12, 2010 6:27 pm

jnorsky wrote:Thinking that people at HYPS undergrad are "the smartest people ever" is ridiculous, i know plenty of people smart enough to go to HYP but didnt care enough in high school, got ok grades, and went to schools like UCB, Michigan, Georgetown, Chicago, etc. In fact, my buddy is at Harvard law now, went to public school undergrad and he rocked his first semester at harvard. His buddy that went to public school...same thing, absolutely rocked it. Undergrad is bullshit, the people went to Harvard undergrad from my high school were annoying overachievers that only cared about school.



+1

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Re: HYP undergrads vs. HYS 0Ls

Postby fortissimo » Fri Feb 12, 2010 7:22 pm

ConMan345 wrote:
fortissimo wrote:[

Maybe he hasn't seen the AMC problems. I took the AMC 12 in high school and I think I scored a 110, which is okay ( a score of 100+ equates to the top 5%), but I think my friend scored a 140 or something like that, which is absolutely insane since I think the max is 150. This means he was in the top .1% or whatever. The problems are not typical math problems at all. They are very, very different and much harder than pussy Calc BC. Getting top 5% in the nation is just ridiculously impressive (genius level).


lol


:roll:
If you read the dialogue, it's obvious I meant top 5 (not percent, in the nation).

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Re: HYP undergrads vs. HYS 0Ls

Postby Haribo » Fri Feb 12, 2010 10:40 pm

georgina wrote:this has become a ridiculous thread. too many opinions, too little substantiation.
HYPSMC are all great schools in different ways. there are many reasons why one could choose any one of those over any of the others. from now on, when i post my school, i'm going to put HYPSM. and i'm sure someone's going to say, oh you so went to mit, who else would feel the ridiculous need to tack M onto the end (i left out C because i imagine very few caltech grads go to law school).


If you really went to MIT, you'd know to just say MIT because it's more impressive than HYPS :P

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Re: HYP undergrads vs. HYS 0Ls

Postby Unemployed » Fri Feb 12, 2010 10:45 pm

Haribo wrote:
georgina wrote:this has become a ridiculous thread. too many opinions, too little substantiation.
HYPSMC are all great schools in different ways. there are many reasons why one could choose any one of those over any of the others. from now on, when i post my school, i'm going to put HYPSM. and i'm sure someone's going to say, oh you so went to mit, who else would feel the ridiculous need to tack M onto the end (i left out C because i imagine very few caltech grads go to law school).


If you really went to MIT, you'd know to just say MIT because it's more impressive than HYPS :P


I'm not impressed that anyone got into MIT (unless the applicant is male and Asian). But when you graduate from MIT, that means something.




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