What is your own personal cutoff for a TTT?

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LSATfromNC
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Re: What is your own personal cutoff for a TTT?

Postby LSATfromNC » Mon Feb 08, 2010 8:06 pm

Any school whose average graduate will not have the opportunity to make more their first year as a lawyer than what the average debt a law student at that school graduates with is TTT.

hds2388
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Re: What is your own personal cutoff for a TTT?

Postby hds2388 » Mon Feb 08, 2010 8:07 pm

garfike wrote:Personally I view any school past 75th in the USNWR as TTT, but definitions vary. What say you?


Whatever law school you go to and below. Should you attend Yale, I will allow Yale to be considered a poorly regarded tier two, with Harvard then being the best TTT school.

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Kohinoor
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Re: What is your own personal cutoff for a TTT?

Postby Kohinoor » Mon Feb 08, 2010 8:09 pm

LSATfromNC wrote:Any school whose average graduate will not have the opportunity to make more their first year as a lawyer than what the average debt a law student at that school graduates with is TTT.

Most of the top 100 schools have a median starting income of 160k dood. That doesn't even include bonus!!!

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Stringer Bell
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Re: What is your own personal cutoff for a TTT?

Postby Stringer Bell » Mon Feb 08, 2010 8:10 pm

hds2388 wrote:
garfike wrote:Personally I view any school past 75th in the USNWR as TTT, but definitions vary. What say you?


Whatever law school you go to and below. Should you attend Yale, I will allow Yale to be considered a poorly regarded tier two, with Harvard then being the best TTT school.


Blatant Anti-Stanford trolling

09042014
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Re: What is your own personal cutoff for a TTT?

Postby 09042014 » Mon Feb 08, 2010 8:13 pm

T10.

starstruck393
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Re: What is your own personal cutoff for a TTT?

Postby starstruck393 » Mon Feb 08, 2010 8:13 pm

lsatbdog wrote:
McNabb wrote:
reasonable_man wrote:You don't have to call em TTTs, because its not nice. But for the most part, the lower T50, along with every other ABA approved law school, are basically the same thing. So we can call them Super Cool Schools or Almost Top Schools or some other inventive special snow flake-like definition, but the result is the same. The Top 6, then the Top 14, then the Top 30, then everything else..

To the poster above that recently came out of the closet to tend to his sick mother, send people free plane tickets and argue cases before the supreme Court while standing tall at over 6ft with an impressive stature of 245lbs... You ok leny?


LOL at this totally arbitrary and made up cutoff (I'm guessing a NYU or Boalt student)! I guess that is the whole point of this thread though....


That or a practicing attorney doing pretty well for himself who did not go to either...

But RM, while I do agree that after the T30 (at most) all law schools are pretty much the same, isn't there a pretty big difference in employment prospects (and debt, assuming residency) coming out of say, KU, Utah, or Florida, as opposed to schools like John Marshall, SIU, or South Texas? Namely, that schools in the first category may have a better chance at employment because they are top dog in the state. Or am I off-base here?

Edit: The example I always think of is how people on here sometimes say that after the top 50 ls becomes a bad bet. But personally, I'd think UF with in-state tuition (or KU, OU, etc.) would be a better investment than Cardozo at sticker, due to their relative strength in the region, and debt. I guess my thought is that after the top few schools, regional considerations and expected debt are much more important than rankings.


It's more like after T1 (or T30), ls at more than $25k/yr or so is a bad bet. While there are differences in employment prospects between T2 and T4, they're not as big as you might think. T2's are just as regional as T4's, maybe the T2 would win straight up over the T4 in their region, but I think grades would be much more important as a factor. Those instate schools are probably a better bet than dozo at sticker, at least if you don't want NYC, just as I think a T3/T4 with a full scholarship is a better bet than a lower T1 or T2 at sticker. With all around poor job prospects, slightly more prestige is not worth the debt you take on, especially when it becomes a multiple of what you could realistically expect to make in a year. $100k+ of debt when you make $50k/yr = bad idea, no matter how you slice it

hds2388
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Re: What is your own personal cutoff for a TTT?

Postby hds2388 » Mon Feb 08, 2010 8:17 pm

Stringer Bell wrote:
hds2388 wrote:
garfike wrote:Personally I view any school past 75th in the USNWR as TTT, but definitions vary. What say you?


Whatever law school you go to and below. Should you attend Yale, I will allow Yale to be considered a poorly regarded tier two, with Harvard then being the best TTT school.


Blatant Anti-Stanford trolling


Admitted. I just figured since this thread was so much grounded in all things arbitrary, that I would continue the tradition and crown Harvard king of TTT.

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D Brooks
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Re: What is your own personal cutoff for a TTT?

Postby D Brooks » Mon Feb 08, 2010 8:17 pm

.
Last edited by D Brooks on Tue Feb 09, 2010 7:49 am, edited 1 time in total.

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GATORTIM
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Re: What is your own personal cutoff for a TTT?

Postby GATORTIM » Mon Feb 08, 2010 8:19 pm

SandyC877 wrote:
garfike wrote:Personally I view any school past 75th in the USNWR as TTT, but definitions vary. What say you?


hey great thread op! before I get into my own TTT, are you aware that there are people in this world that have a severe medical condition which causes them to be that way? My mother for instance is one of those people. She is a truck driver that has bad knees and a bad back from driving the truck but you probably do not care about that case either. Oh well I am not one of those people I am 6'4" 245lbs and I exercise every day. I would love to see you say something like that to my mother in front of me. Probably never happen though you are probably just an internet tough guy. I doubt very seriously you would say that to someones face. Just my thought.What do you think. Oh I am sorry you probably do not have a brain. I on the other hand will be happy to buy you a plane ticket to come here and see if you have the nerve to say that to someone I know. "I'm proud to be gay. ... I love Jeff more than myself," Paul Katami, 37, of Burbank testified in a packed San Francisco courtroom. "Being gay doesn't make me any less of an American." But with voters' November 2008 passage of Proposition 8, which amended the state Constitution to define marriage as the union of a man and a woman, "being gay means I'm unequal," Katami said. "I've been in love with a woman for 10 years, and I don't have a word for it," said Kristin Perry, 45, who lives in Berkeley with her partner, Sandy Stier, 47, and their four children. "I do everything I can to be a contributing and valuable member of the state, and the state isn't letting us be happy." The two women - along with Katami and his partner of nearly nine years, 36-year-old Jeff Zarrillo - are suing to overturn Prop. 8, saying it violates the constitutional guarantee of equal protection by discriminating based on sexual orientation and gender. Their testimony took up most of the opening day of a nonjury trial before Chief U.S. District Judge Vaughn Walker. The trial is the first in any federal court over same-sex marriage, and is the first step in a case that could reach the U.S. Supreme Court.


Not only did you fail to provide a coherent response, but everyone ITT is now dumber for having read this...may god have mercy on your soul...

lsatbdog
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Re: What is your own personal cutoff for a TTT?

Postby lsatbdog » Mon Feb 08, 2010 8:20 pm

starstruck393 wrote:
lsatbdog wrote:
McNabb wrote:
reasonable_man wrote:You don't have to call em TTTs, because its not nice. But for the most part, the lower T50, along with every other ABA approved law school, are basically the same thing. So we can call them Super Cool Schools or Almost Top Schools or some other inventive special snow flake-like definition, but the result is the same. The Top 6, then the Top 14, then the Top 30, then everything else..

To the poster above that recently came out of the closet to tend to his sick mother, send people free plane tickets and argue cases before the supreme Court while standing tall at over 6ft with an impressive stature of 245lbs... You ok leny?


LOL at this totally arbitrary and made up cutoff (I'm guessing a NYU or Boalt student)! I guess that is the whole point of this thread though....


That or a practicing attorney doing pretty well for himself who did not go to either...

But RM, while I do agree that after the T30 (at most) all law schools are pretty much the same, isn't there a pretty big difference in employment prospects (and debt, assuming residency) coming out of say, KU, Utah, or Florida, as opposed to schools like John Marshall, SIU, or South Texas? Namely, that schools in the first category may have a better chance at employment because they are top dog in the state. Or am I off-base here?

Edit: The example I always think of is how people on here sometimes say that after the top 50 ls becomes a bad bet. But personally, I'd think UF with in-state tuition (or KU, OU, etc.) would be a better investment than Cardozo at sticker, due to their relative strength in the region, and debt. I guess my thought is that after the top few schools, regional considerations and expected debt are much more important than rankings.


It's more like after T1 (or T30), ls at more than $25k/yr or so is a bad bet. While there are differences in employment prospects between T2 and T4, they're not as big as you might think. T2's are just as regional as T4's, maybe the T2 would win straight up over the T4 in their region, but I think grades would be much more important as a factor. Those instate schools are probably a better bet than dozo at sticker, at least if you don't want NYC, just as I think a T3/T4 with a full scholarship is a better bet than a lower T1 or T2 at sticker. With all around poor job prospects, slightly more prestige is not worth the debt you take on, especially when it becomes a multiple of what you could realistically expect to make in a year. $100k+ of debt when you make $50k/yr = bad idea, no matter how you slice it


Can't disagree with this, its basically what I was getting at. However, I'm just noting that some T4s are in markets where there are tons of other law schools to compete against, while KU is one of 2 law schools in Kansas (though obviously as a less populous state, there are less people there). But I think your getting "prestige" confused with "region" as it pertains to what I'm talking about. All I'm saying is that KU and other such schools are the clear best in states where there are 1-3 law schools (and outsiders aren't really looking to get in), whereas many T4 schools are in saturated markets. IE, as in someone who finishes top 1/4 at LSU as a LA resident has a better chance of getting a job in LA than a person ranked in the top 1/4 from a private t4 in NYC/CHI does at getting a job in that region (as well as less debt).
Last edited by lsatbdog on Mon Feb 08, 2010 8:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

LSATfromNC
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Re: What is your own personal cutoff for a TTT?

Postby LSATfromNC » Mon Feb 08, 2010 8:22 pm

Kohinoor wrote:
LSATfromNC wrote:Any school whose average graduate will not have the opportunity to make more their first year as a lawyer than what the average debt a law student at that school graduates with is TTT.

Most of the top 100 schools have a median starting income of 160k dood. That doesn't even include bonus!!!


haha, I forgot about those recruiting brochures :) The one I toss out there, I would rather pay 4k a year in tuition at NCCU than pay full tuition at Wake regardless of rank. So what they may only make 40ish out of NCCU (granted they need to get a job) at least they only have 20k or so debt if they played it smart (after grants, summer work and so on), for a Wake student paying sticker will graduate with over 100k in debt and slim prospects of making that much (no offense Wake I still love you, and I may indeed wind up there next year).

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Stringer Bell
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Re: What is your own personal cutoff for a TTT?

Postby Stringer Bell » Mon Feb 08, 2010 8:23 pm

lsatbdog wrote:But RM, while I do agree that after the T30 (at most) all law schools are pretty much the same, isn't there a pretty big difference in employment prospects (and debt, assuming residency) coming out of say, KU, Utah, or Florida, as opposed to schools like John Marshall, SIU, or South Texas?


I think pre-ITE South Texas actually placed halfway decent all things considered (although I would imagine they are getting hammered now). You'd be surprised, but the school has some lay prestige in Houston.

lsatbdog
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Re: What is your own personal cutoff for a TTT?

Postby lsatbdog » Mon Feb 08, 2010 8:27 pm

Stringer Bell wrote:
lsatbdog wrote:
I think pre-ITE South Texas actually placed halfway decent all things considered (although I would imagine they are getting hammered now). You'd be surprised, but the school has some lay prestige in Houston.


Sorry if I misspoke on that.

I guess my point/thought/question is that outside of the t-14, your main (or only) considerations should be the strength of a school in its region, realistic expected salary/chance at work, and expected debt load.

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GATORTIM
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Re: What is your own personal cutoff for a TTT?

Postby GATORTIM » Mon Feb 08, 2010 8:31 pm

ITT: TLSers make wild speculations not far too dissimilar than the dozens of posts they have already made in countless threads during this cycle; each applying their own ranking system to accommodate their individual situation.

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OGR3
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Re: What is your own personal cutoff for a TTT?

Postby OGR3 » Mon Feb 08, 2010 8:33 pm

GATORTIM wrote:ITT: TLSers make wild speculations not far too dissimilar than the dozens of posts they have already made in countless threads during this cycle; each applying their own ranking system to accommodate their individual situation.


ITT: The real Mel Gibson would throw out a couple more profanities.

(I completely agree with you though)

LSATfromNC
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Re: What is your own personal cutoff for a TTT?

Postby LSATfromNC » Mon Feb 08, 2010 8:35 pm

lsatbdog wrote:
Stringer Bell wrote:
lsatbdog wrote:
I think pre-ITE South Texas actually placed halfway decent all things considered (although I would imagine they are getting hammered now). You'd be surprised, but the school has some lay prestige in Houston.


Sorry if I misspoke on that.

I guess my point/thought/question is that outside of the t-14, your main (or only) considerations should be the strength of a school in its region, realistic expected salary/chance at work, and expected debt load.


Right on. You appear to be someone with common sense!

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onthecusp
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Re: What is your own personal cutoff for a TTT?

Postby onthecusp » Mon Feb 08, 2010 8:35 pm

SandyC877 wrote:
garfike wrote:Personally I view any school past 75th in the USNWR as TTT, but definitions vary. What say you?


hey great thread op! before I get into my own TTT, are you aware that there are people in this world that have a severe medical condition which causes them to be that way? My mother for instance is one of those people. She is a truck driver that has bad knees and a bad back from driving the truck but you probably do not care about that case either. Oh well I am not one of those people I am 6'4" 245lbs and I exercise every day. I would love to see you say something like that to my mother in front of me. Probably never happen though you are probably just an internet tough guy. I doubt very seriously you would say that to someones face. Just my thought.What do you think. Oh I am sorry you probably do not have a brain. I on the other hand will be happy to buy you a plane ticket to come here and see if you have the nerve to say that to someone I know. "I'm proud to be gay. ... I love Jeff more than myself," Paul Katami, 37, of Burbank testified in a packed San Francisco courtroom. "Being gay doesn't make me any less of an American." But with voters' November 2008 passage of Proposition 8, which amended the state Constitution to define marriage as the union of a man and a woman, "being gay means I'm unequal," Katami said. "I've been in love with a woman for 10 years, and I don't have a word for it," said Kristin Perry, 45, who lives in Berkeley with her partner, Sandy Stier, 47, and their four children. "I do everything I can to be a contributing and valuable member of the state, and the state isn't letting us be happy." The two women - along with Katami and his partner of nearly nine years, 36-year-old Jeff Zarrillo - are suing to overturn Prop. 8, saying it violates the constitutional guarantee of equal protection by discriminating based on sexual orientation and gender. Their testimony took up most of the opening day of a nonjury trial before Chief U.S. District Judge Vaughn Walker. The trial is the first in any federal court over same-sex marriage, and is the first step in a case that could reach the U.S. Supreme Court.


wtf?

acdisagod
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Re: What is your own personal cutoff for a TTT?

Postby acdisagod » Mon Feb 08, 2010 8:46 pm

One spot above Cooley

solidsnake
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Re: What is your own personal cutoff for a TTT?

Postby solidsnake » Mon Feb 08, 2010 8:47 pm

T14 + UCLA/UT/Vandy. Everything else is a festering toilet, the further down the rankings the more sludge.

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usuaggie
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Re: What is your own personal cutoff for a TTT?

Postby usuaggie » Mon Feb 08, 2010 9:25 pm

onthecusp wrote:
SandyC877 wrote:
garfike wrote:Personally I view any school past 75th in the USNWR as TTT, but definitions vary. What say you?


hey great thread op! before I get into my own TTT, are you aware that there are people in this world that have a severe medical condition which causes them to be that way? My mother for instance is one of those people. She is a truck driver that has bad knees and a bad back from driving the truck but you probably do not care about that case either. Oh well I am not one of those people I am 6'4" 245lbs and I exercise every day. I would love to see you say something like that to my mother in front of me. Probably never happen though you are probably just an internet tough guy. I doubt very seriously you would say that to someones face. Just my thought.What do you think. Oh I am sorry you probably do not have a brain. I on the other hand will be happy to buy you a plane ticket to come here and see if you have the nerve to say that to someone I know. "I'm proud to be gay. ... I love Jeff more than myself," Paul Katami, 37, of Burbank testified in a packed San Francisco courtroom. "Being gay doesn't make me any less of an American." But with voters' November 2008 passage of Proposition 8, which amended the state Constitution to define marriage as the union of a man and a woman, "being gay means I'm unequal," Katami said. "I've been in love with a woman for 10 years, and I don't have a word for it," said Kristin Perry, 45, who lives in Berkeley with her partner, Sandy Stier, 47, and their four children. "I do everything I can to be a contributing and valuable member of the state, and the state isn't letting us be happy." The two women - along with Katami and his partner of nearly nine years, 36-year-old Jeff Zarrillo - are suing to overturn Prop. 8, saying it violates the constitutional guarantee of equal protection by discriminating based on sexual orientation and gender. Their testimony took up most of the opening day of a nonjury trial before Chief U.S. District Judge Vaughn Walker. The trial is the first in any federal court over same-sex marriage, and is the first step in a case that could reach the U.S. Supreme Court.


wtf?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hfYJsQAhl0

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JTX
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Re: What is your own personal cutoff for a TTT?

Postby JTX » Mon Feb 08, 2010 9:54 pm

x
Last edited by JTX on Wed Jun 02, 2010 1:02 pm, edited 2 times in total.

holborn
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Re: What is your own personal cutoff for a TTT?

Postby holborn » Mon Feb 08, 2010 10:08 pm



HAHAHA great response.

4910
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Re: What is your own personal cutoff for a TTT?

Postby 4910 » Mon Feb 08, 2010 10:11 pm

o'doyle rules!

pandacot
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Re: What is your own personal cutoff for a TTT?

Postby pandacot » Mon Feb 08, 2010 10:18 pm

SandyC877 wrote:
garfike wrote:Personally I view any school past 75th in the USNWR as TTT, but definitions vary. What say you?


hey great thread op! before I get into my own TTT, are you aware that there are people in this world that have a severe medical condition which causes them to be that way? My mother for instance is one of those people. She is a truck driver that has bad knees and a bad back from driving the truck but you probably do not care about that case either. Oh well I am not one of those people I am 6'4" 245lbs and I exercise every day. I would love to see you say something like that to my mother in front of me. Probably never happen though you are probably just an internet tough guy. I doubt very seriously you would say that to someones face. Just my thought.What do you think. Oh I am sorry you probably do not have a brain. I on the other hand will be happy to buy you a plane ticket to come here and see if you have the nerve to say that to someone I know. "I'm proud to be gay. ... I love Jeff more than myself," Paul Katami, 37, of Burbank testified in a packed San Francisco courtroom. "Being gay doesn't make me any less of an American." But with voters' November 2008 passage of Proposition 8, which amended the state Constitution to define marriage as the union of a man and a woman, "being gay means I'm unequal," Katami said. "I've been in love with a woman for 10 years, and I don't have a word for it," said Kristin Perry, 45, who lives in Berkeley with her partner, Sandy Stier, 47, and their four children. "I do everything I can to be a contributing and valuable member of the state, and the state isn't letting us be happy." The two women - along with Katami and his partner of nearly nine years, 36-year-old Jeff Zarrillo - are suing to overturn Prop. 8, saying it violates the constitutional guarantee of equal protection by discriminating based on sexual orientation and gender. Their testimony took up most of the opening day of a nonjury trial before Chief U.S. District Judge Vaughn Walker. The trial is the first in any federal court over same-sex marriage, and is the first step in a case that could reach the U.S. Supreme Court.


Holy bat shit. This is the single greatest post ever made. A trucker mom, threats of bodily injury and gay relationships. This shit cannot be topped... ever.

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reasonable_man
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Re: What is your own personal cutoff for a TTT?

Postby reasonable_man » Mon Feb 08, 2010 11:55 pm

GATORTIM wrote:ITT: TLSers make wild speculations not far too dissimilar than the dozens of posts they have already made in countless threads during this cycle; each applying their own ranking system to accommodate their individual situation.


I take exception to that. My ranking system places my own school in one of the lowest categories on my scale.. I just don't tie my self-worth to the USNWR rank to my LS, so I feel no need to try to rationalize the fact that I went to a festering TTT by coming up with some crazy metric like best access to parking for students or the fact that my school is looking to start an "international law program."
Last edited by reasonable_man on Mon Feb 08, 2010 11:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.




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