UT vs. Cornell

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runn3rs
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Re: UT vs. Cornell

Postby runn3rs » Sat Feb 06, 2010 3:05 pm

SHARK WEEK! wrote:
runn3rs wrote:
Esc wrote:There's a cogent argument to be made for picking UVA over UT for Texas. I don't agree with it, but I recognize its potential validity. However, there is no cogent argument to be made for Cornell over UT for Texas.


I agree. I think you could make an argument for GULC or UVA (two similarly ranked schools) but its much harder to make the same argument for Cornell. FWIW, I agree with the argument that UVA is better than UT for someone hoping to practice in Texas.


lol, um no.


UVA is ranked just above Cornell (tied with Duke and NU) and GULC is ranked one less than Cornell, no?

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SHARK WEEK!
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Re: UT vs. Cornell

Postby SHARK WEEK! » Sat Feb 06, 2010 3:14 pm

catharsis wrote:for Texas, Berkeley or UT?


This is probably the rarest scenario you could ever conceive of, except perhaps "LSU for Maine". I mean, Berkeley is definitely the better school. However, OP wants to stay in Texas, so I wouldn't think that Berkeley could justify the extra cost. I'd go with Texas knowing that Berkeley was the better school, but who cares. UT places the hell out of Texas.

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SHARK WEEK!
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Re: UT vs. Cornell

Postby SHARK WEEK! » Sat Feb 06, 2010 3:20 pm

runn3rs wrote:
SHARK WEEK! wrote:
runn3rs wrote:
Esc wrote:There's a cogent argument to be made for picking UVA over UT for Texas. I don't agree with it, but I recognize its potential validity. However, there is no cogent argument to be made for Cornell over UT for Texas.


I agree. I think you could make an argument for GULC or UVA (two similarly ranked schools) but its much harder to make the same argument for Cornell. FWIW, I agree with the argument that UVA is better than UT for someone hoping to practice in Texas.


lol, um no.


UVA is ranked just above Cornell (tied with Duke and NU) and GULC is ranked one less than Cornell, no?


Oh, I see what you are arguing now. (I thought you were saying it would be a tougher choice between GULC/UVA and UT, than between Cornell and UT.) Ya, it's easier for people to trade up or down within the T14. It's harder for people to justify ever dipping below the T14, even if it's #15. I don't know why this is so for people who have a specific region in mind like Texas or California (I'm talking about UCLA here). It's pretty clear that UT OWNS Texas. If you want to live/work in Texas, and you are lucky enough to get into UT, then go to UT.

The only T14 schools that could persuade me away from Texas if I were the OP are: HYSNCC and possibly Duke/UVA, but that would take dollars.

Esc
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Re: UT vs. Cornell

Postby Esc » Sat Feb 06, 2010 3:40 pm

catharsis wrote:for Texas, Berkeley or UT?


My gut response is to say UT, but I don't know how Berkeley places in Texas. My guess is not that well compared to peer T14 schools. What fields are you interested in, where in Texas do you want to live/work, and what is the cost difference?

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kittenmittons
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Re: UT vs. Cornell

Postby kittenmittons » Sat Feb 06, 2010 5:14 pm

SHARK WEEK! wrote:Oh, I see what you are arguing now. (I thought you were saying it would be a tougher choice between GULC/UVA and UT, than between Cornell and UT.) Ya, it's easier for people to trade up or down within the T14. It's harder for people to justify ever dipping below the T14, even if it's #15. I don't know why this is so for people who have a specific region in mind like Texas or California (I'm talking about UCLA here). It's pretty clear that UT OWNS Texas. If you want to live/work in Texas, and you are lucky enough to get into UT, then go to UT.

The only T14 schools that could persuade me away from Texas if I were the OP are: HYSNCC and possibly Duke/UVA, but that would take dollars.


RANCID NYU trolling

lightbulb1986
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Re: UT vs. Cornell

Postby lightbulb1986 » Sat Feb 06, 2010 5:21 pm

.
Last edited by lightbulb1986 on Sun Apr 24, 2016 2:24 am, edited 1 time in total.

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SHARK WEEK!
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Re: UT vs. Cornell

Postby SHARK WEEK! » Sat Feb 06, 2010 5:26 pm

kittenmittons wrote:
SHARK WEEK! wrote:Oh, I see what you are arguing now. (I thought you were saying it would be a tougher choice between GULC/UVA and UT, than between Cornell and UT.) Ya, it's easier for people to trade up or down within the T14. It's harder for people to justify ever dipping below the T14, even if it's #15. I don't know why this is so for people who have a specific region in mind like Texas or California (I'm talking about UCLA here). It's pretty clear that UT OWNS Texas. If you want to live/work in Texas, and you are lucky enough to get into UT, then go to UT.

The only T14 schools that could persuade me away from Texas if I were the OP are: HYSNCC and possibly Duke/UVA, but that would take dollars.


RANCID NYU trolling


I love this. How so? I listed the T6 and the two top "southern" schools.

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DoubleChecks
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Re: UT vs. Cornell

Postby DoubleChecks » Sat Feb 06, 2010 5:44 pm

Esc wrote:
catharsis wrote:for Texas, Berkeley or UT?


My gut response is to say UT, but I don't know how Berkeley places in Texas. My guess is not that well compared to peer T14 schools. What fields are you interested in, where in Texas do you want to live/work, and what is the cost difference?


last yr, doing some research into this, there were a few threads started by ppl who worked or knew lawyers in TX law firms, the hiring dept., and apparently there are very few Berkeley alums in TX firms and TX firms dont tend to really hire out of there.

so based on that (or what i remember from that), id say UT over Berkeley in Texas, but it is a tougher call. stanford vs. UT in texas is crazy hard for me...palo alto seems like a nice place to spend 3 yrs too, even when compared to austin hm...

Esc
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Re: UT vs. Cornell

Postby Esc » Sat Feb 06, 2010 6:27 pm

lightbulb1986 wrote:For Texas, UT or Stanford?


Alot of people would say it would be foolish to turn down HYS for UT under any circumstances. I disagree with that assessment, but you will need strong reasons to take UT over Stanford. IE: Free tuition, avoiding a LDR with a partner you plan to be with forever, strong affinity for UT, etc. Most likely a combination of strong reasons.

helvidius2010
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Re: UT vs. Cornell

Postby helvidius2010 » Sat Feb 06, 2010 8:06 pm

I see this thread has become the UT versus the entire T14 thread...

As I mentioned earlier, there is a pro-UT bias among Texas attorneys, but it only reaches so far. Based on what I have seen splitting for 2 summers at various Texas firms, that bias probably catapults UT above CG and maybe DN. But I do not think the average Texas attorney sees UT as better than the T10. A student with Texas ties would likely have better BigLaw chances from a T10, including Berkeley.

Of course each individual may have their own reasons (money, SO, etc.) justifying drawing the line deeper into the T14. In retrospect, I am glad I chose UT because it enabled me to learn the reputations and personalities of the local firms before interviewing. This in turn helped me find a group that I really like, and I think that will make it much easier to put up with the drawbacks of BigLaw.
Last edited by helvidius2010 on Sat Feb 06, 2010 8:14 pm, edited 2 times in total.

lawimbecile
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Re: UT vs. Cornell

Postby lawimbecile » Sat Feb 06, 2010 8:12 pm

LOL at the Cornell trolling ITT

LeahNic
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Re: UT vs. Cornell

Postby LeahNic » Sun Feb 07, 2010 12:53 pm

helvidius2010 wrote:I see this thread has become the UT versus the entire T14 thread...

As I mentioned earlier, there is a pro-UT bias among Texas attorneys, but it only reaches so far. Based on what I have seen splitting for 2 summers at various Texas firms, that bias probably catapults UT above CG and maybe DN. But I do not think the average Texas attorney sees UT as better than the T10. A student with Texas ties would likely have better BigLaw chances from a T10, including Berkeley.

Of course each individual may have their own reasons (money, SO, etc.) justifying drawing the line deeper into the T14. In retrospect, I am glad I chose UT because it enabled me to learn the reputations and personalities of the local firms before interviewing. This in turn helped me find a group that I really like, and I think that will make it much easier to put up with the drawbacks of BigLaw.


I think you've hit on the real advantage to going to UT over a T-14. Learning the personalities of the firms is important, and from across the country with no contact-- clearly that's not a possibility.

I faced the Cornell/UT decision and I picked Cornell. Cornell gave me more financial aid than UT did, so money wise for me it was about $8K difference per year (considering UT's recent tuition hikes). My SO though is the primary reason that Cornell was a better fit for us-- full disclosure-- as just me I would have picked UT.

Going through the OCI process last fall the things I noted are...

1) There are not a lot of Cornell grads in Texas, so when you do meet with alum, and they think you are actually interested in living in Texas, they are VERY excited about it and will do whatever they can to get you the job. (I'm sure this isn't unique, but it was nice to have people seem so willing to help you out). I got really good responses from my mass mailings to Texas firms, and got multiple callbacks that way, so the limited TX representation at OCI wasn't an issue really.

2) You have to answer more questions on your motives for attending school so far away from Texas. I never got a "why Cornell over UT" but I got plenty of, why did you move so far away? I think this might hold true for more than just Cornell. Texans are just naturally suspicious of anyone EVER leaving the state. A partner I interviewed with told me he had partners ask him "Why did you leave Texas to go to Yale?" However, once I assured them I had every intention of coming back, it became a moot point.

3) My summer jobs at elite firms in TX are comprised of more than 50% T-14 students. There are a couple from almost T-14 schools such as Vandy and then the rest are from Texas schools (SMU and UH seem to make strong showings in their home cities). I actually was really shocked that not more were from UT. I figured I'd be in a class with about 2/3 UT students. I'm wondering if this is an ITE phenomenon though.

4) I felt like several firms were more interested in me because I would add to their "school diversity" of their summer class.

I guess I don't really have a point :-). But, I think if someone has Texas ties and wants for any reason to go to a T-14 over Texas it won't hurt them. If you don't have Texas ties and think you want to end up there for some reason--then yeah go to UT.

fsohn
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Re: UT vs. Cornell

Postby fsohn » Sun Feb 07, 2010 1:21 pm

LeahNic wrote:
helvidius2010 wrote:I see this thread has become the UT versus the entire T14 thread...

As I mentioned earlier, there is a pro-UT bias among Texas attorneys, but it only reaches so far. Based on what I have seen splitting for 2 summers at various Texas firms, that bias probably catapults UT above CG and maybe DN. But I do not think the average Texas attorney sees UT as better than the T10. A student with Texas ties would likely have better BigLaw chances from a T10, including Berkeley.

Of course each individual may have their own reasons (money, SO, etc.) justifying drawing the line deeper into the T14. In retrospect, I am glad I chose UT because it enabled me to learn the reputations and personalities of the local firms before interviewing. This in turn helped me find a group that I really like, and I think that will make it much easier to put up with the drawbacks of BigLaw.


I think you've hit on the real advantage to going to UT over a T-14. Learning the personalities of the firms is important, and from across the country with no contact-- clearly that's not a possibility.

I faced the Cornell/UT decision and I picked Cornell. Cornell gave me more financial aid than UT did, so money wise for me it was about $8K difference per year (considering UT's recent tuition hikes). My SO though is the primary reason that Cornell was a better fit for us-- full disclosure-- as just me I would have picked UT.

Going through the OCI process last fall the things I noted are...

1) There are not a lot of Cornell grads in Texas, so when you do meet with alum, and they think you are actually interested in living in Texas, they are VERY excited about it and will do whatever they can to get you the job. (I'm sure this isn't unique, but it was nice to have people seem so willing to help you out). I got really good responses from my mass mailings to Texas firms, and got multiple callbacks that way, so the limited TX representation at OCI wasn't an issue really.

2) You have to answer more questions on your motives for attending school so far away from Texas. I never got a "why Cornell over UT" but I got plenty of, why did you move so far away? I think this might hold true for more than just Cornell. Texans are just naturally suspicious of anyone EVER leaving the state. A partner I interviewed with told me he had partners ask him "Why did you leave Texas to go to Yale?" However, once I assured them I had every intention of coming back, it became a moot point.

3) My summer jobs at elite firms in TX are comprised of more than 50% T-14 students. There are a couple from almost T-14 schools such as Vandy and then the rest are from Texas schools (SMU and UH seem to make strong showings in their home cities). I actually was really shocked that not more were from UT. I figured I'd be in a class with about 2/3 UT students. I'm wondering if this is an ITE phenomenon though.

4) I felt like several firms were more interested in me because I would add to their "school diversity" of their summer class.

I guess I don't really have a point :-). But, I think if someone has Texas ties and wants for any reason to go to a T-14 over Texas it won't hurt them. If you don't have Texas ties and think you want to end up there for some reason--then yeah go to UT.


I didn't apply to UT during my cycle, and it didn't so much as cross my mind. After doing an internship in Texas over 1L summer, I thought I might want to go back for 2L summer. My TX (Houston only) interviews at OCI were skeptical at best (Jones Day), outright incredulous at worst (V&E). I had two callbacks through independent outreach. One was cancelled when the firm cancelled their entire summer program (Morgan Lewis) and another was good, but resulted in no offer (mid-sized firm with a maximum 5 person summer class). My personal ties were not entirely lacking--maternal grandparents used to live there, and aunt still does.

What's the lesson? If you know you want to work in TX, the Cornell name probably won't carry enough water to make it worth your while over the all powerful UT brand.

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DoubleChecks
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Re: UT vs. Cornell

Postby DoubleChecks » Sun Feb 07, 2010 2:36 pm

fsohn wrote:
LeahNic wrote:
helvidius2010 wrote:I see this thread has become the UT versus the entire T14 thread...

As I mentioned earlier, there is a pro-UT bias among Texas attorneys, but it only reaches so far. Based on what I have seen splitting for 2 summers at various Texas firms, that bias probably catapults UT above CG and maybe DN. But I do not think the average Texas attorney sees UT as better than the T10. A student with Texas ties would likely have better BigLaw chances from a T10, including Berkeley.

Of course each individual may have their own reasons (money, SO, etc.) justifying drawing the line deeper into the T14. In retrospect, I am glad I chose UT because it enabled me to learn the reputations and personalities of the local firms before interviewing. This in turn helped me find a group that I really like, and I think that will make it much easier to put up with the drawbacks of BigLaw.


I think you've hit on the real advantage to going to UT over a T-14. Learning the personalities of the firms is important, and from across the country with no contact-- clearly that's not a possibility.

I faced the Cornell/UT decision and I picked Cornell. Cornell gave me more financial aid than UT did, so money wise for me it was about $8K difference per year (considering UT's recent tuition hikes). My SO though is the primary reason that Cornell was a better fit for us-- full disclosure-- as just me I would have picked UT.

Going through the OCI process last fall the things I noted are...

1) There are not a lot of Cornell grads in Texas, so when you do meet with alum, and they think you are actually interested in living in Texas, they are VERY excited about it and will do whatever they can to get you the job. (I'm sure this isn't unique, but it was nice to have people seem so willing to help you out). I got really good responses from my mass mailings to Texas firms, and got multiple callbacks that way, so the limited TX representation at OCI wasn't an issue really.

2) You have to answer more questions on your motives for attending school so far away from Texas. I never got a "why Cornell over UT" but I got plenty of, why did you move so far away? I think this might hold true for more than just Cornell. Texans are just naturally suspicious of anyone EVER leaving the state. A partner I interviewed with told me he had partners ask him "Why did you leave Texas to go to Yale?" However, once I assured them I had every intention of coming back, it became a moot point.

3) My summer jobs at elite firms in TX are comprised of more than 50% T-14 students. There are a couple from almost T-14 schools such as Vandy and then the rest are from Texas schools (SMU and UH seem to make strong showings in their home cities). I actually was really shocked that not more were from UT. I figured I'd be in a class with about 2/3 UT students. I'm wondering if this is an ITE phenomenon though.

4) I felt like several firms were more interested in me because I would add to their "school diversity" of their summer class.

I guess I don't really have a point :-). But, I think if someone has Texas ties and wants for any reason to go to a T-14 over Texas it won't hurt them. If you don't have Texas ties and think you want to end up there for some reason--then yeah go to UT.


I didn't apply to UT during my cycle, and it didn't so much as cross my mind. After doing an internship in Texas over 1L summer, I thought I might want to go back for 2L summer. My TX (Houston only) interviews at OCI were skeptical at best (Jones Day), outright incredulous at worst (V&E). I had two callbacks through independent outreach. One was cancelled when the firm cancelled their entire summer program (Morgan Lewis) and another was good, but resulted in no offer (mid-sized firm with a maximum 5 person summer class). My personal ties were not entirely lacking--maternal grandparents used to live there, and aunt still does.

What's the lesson? If you know you want to work in TX, the Cornell name probably won't carry enough water to make it worth your while over the all powerful UT brand.


i get the feeling your personal ties and leahnic's are different, i.e. leahnic maybe went to UT undergrad? lived there for many yrs?

CMDantes
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Re: UT vs. Cornell

Postby CMDantes » Sun Feb 07, 2010 3:14 pm

If you want to practice law in Texas, you need to choose UT. You can't begin to imagine how many doors will open up for you as a UT Law grad practicing in Texas.

Plus, Austin is one of the coolest cities on the planet in my opinion. I've lived here for 3 years and it's got that liberal college city feel with the flavor of Texas. The venues, restaurants, Barton Springs creek, the surrounding central Texas hill country, makes this truly an amazing place to live. There is always something to do, which can be a bad thing for the undisciplined, but I imagine you've got the whole discipline thing down.

Seriously, go to UT, you won't regret it.

helvidius2010
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Re: UT vs. Cornell

Postby helvidius2010 » Sun Feb 07, 2010 4:16 pm

On a side note, getting BigLaw in Austin is a different animal than for Dallas or Houston. To have a decent shot you need to be (1) T6, (2) top of class at UT and lucky, (3) patent person from T14+UT.

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los blancos
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Re: UT vs. Cornell

Postby los blancos » Sun Feb 07, 2010 4:27 pm

Esc wrote:There's a cogent argument to be made for picking UVA over UT for Texas. I don't agree with it, but I recognize its potential validity. However, there is no cogent argument to be made for Cornell over UT for Texas.


Duke?

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DallasCowboy
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Re: UT vs. Cornell

Postby DallasCowboy » Mon Feb 08, 2010 4:15 am

UT (100k COA) vs Duke (Assuming within 30k COA)? Or vs. UVA (if I get in w/$)

My order of favorite markets: Austin, Tampa, Orlando, Dallas, Houston, Atlanta, LA.

I have ties to Texas and Florida.
Thanks.

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los blancos
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Re: UT vs. Cornell

Postby los blancos » Mon Feb 08, 2010 4:26 am

DallasCowboy wrote:UT (100k COA) vs Duke (Assuming within 30k COA)? Or vs. UVA (if I get in w/$)

My order of favorite markets: Austin, Tampa, Orlando, Dallas, Houston, Atlanta, LA.

I have ties to Texas and Florida.
Thanks.


I'm really interested in the answer to this question as well. FL, GA, and TX are my choices after CA (in that order).

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Unemployed
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Re: UT vs. Cornell

Postby Unemployed » Mon Feb 08, 2010 4:28 am

In Texas, UT = #1 (Harvard is a close second)

Mosca
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Re: UT vs. Cornell

Postby Mosca » Mon Feb 08, 2010 4:41 am

helvidius2010 wrote: the only thing from which I am suffering is Yeagermeister.

Yeagermeister:

Image

Esc
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Re: UT vs. Cornell

Postby Esc » Mon Feb 08, 2010 2:36 pm

DallasCowboy wrote:UT (100k COA) vs Duke (Assuming within 30k COA)? Or vs. UVA (if I get in w/$)

My order of favorite markets: Austin, Tampa, Orlando, Dallas, Houston, Atlanta, LA.

I have ties to Texas and Florida.
Thanks.


With Duke being 70k cheaper, Duke is a no-brainer except for the Austin market. The Austin market is very, very difficult for any non-UT. In example, the Baker Botts Austin office, if I'm remembering correctly, has about 55 attorneys, of whom 35ish are UT Law grads and only 6 are T14 grads. Of those T14 grads, 4 were UT undergrads.

Do you have Austin ties, or just Texas ties? If you don't have Austin ties, Duke will likely do you well for the rest of Texas, but Austin will be a struggle.

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McNabb
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Re: UT vs. Cornell

Postby McNabb » Mon Feb 08, 2010 2:47 pm

Picking Cornell over UT for someone who wants to work in Texas is just insane. Cornell is a top 14 that has some pretty mediocre non NYC placement. The best schools for Texas besides UT are HYS CC and UVA.

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DallasCowboy
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Re: UT vs. Cornell

Postby DallasCowboy » Mon Feb 08, 2010 3:13 pm

Dallas ties. Sorry, I meant Duke costing 100-130 (expected scholarship)

Thanks. I know Austin is hard to get into so I'm most likely looking at Florida. Do you know of anybody trying to find work there from UT?

Esc
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Re: UT vs. Cornell

Postby Esc » Mon Feb 08, 2010 3:21 pm

DallasCowboy wrote:Dallas ties. Sorry, I meant Duke costing 100-130 (expected scholarship)

Thanks. I know Austin is hard to get into so I'm most likely looking at Florida. Do you know of anybody trying to find work there from UT?


Florida is a pretty small market for UT. Most UT grads that go out of state end up in CA, NYC, or DC. Duke would do you better for Florida.




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