UT vs. Cornell

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sudoku
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UT vs. Cornell

Postby sudoku » Fri Feb 05, 2010 9:43 pm

With intent to practice in Texas, would one be wiser to choose UT or Cornell? Similarly ranked, the former has all the more regional strength, and the latter, the Ivy name. No scholly for either, but I'm a Texas resident, so I'd have a leg up with in-state tuition. Does this outweigh the Cornell name, though? Thoughts??
Last edited by sudoku on Fri Feb 05, 2010 9:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

DukeHopeful
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Re: UT vs. Cornell

Postby DukeHopeful » Fri Feb 05, 2010 9:44 pm

In Texas? Texas, easily. Plus, instate tuition is like a built-in scholarship.

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DoubleChecks
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Re: UT vs. Cornell

Postby DoubleChecks » Fri Feb 05, 2010 9:45 pm

want to practice in TX? 100% UT, i see no reason to pick a more expensive school in this scenario, granted the more expensive school is Cornell

and come on, 3 yrs in Austin > 3 yrs in Ithaca easy :P

DukeHopeful
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Re: UT vs. Cornell

Postby DukeHopeful » Fri Feb 05, 2010 9:47 pm

I would think that in Texas, the UT name is more valuable than Cornell, at least in the legal realm. Who cares what everyone else thinks, they don't sign your paychecks. :wink:

Esc
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Re: UT vs. Cornell

Postby Esc » Fri Feb 05, 2010 9:52 pm

Texas without question.

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vanwinkle
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Re: UT vs. Cornell

Postby vanwinkle » Fri Feb 05, 2010 9:54 pm

I vote Texas also. Any slight advantage from attending a top-ranked Ivy is made up for by the fact that you get to spend 3 years in Austin instead of Ithaca.

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catharsis
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Re: UT vs. Cornell

Postby catharsis » Fri Feb 05, 2010 9:55 pm

i had the same concern and ^ Esc up there showed me the light. Texas (for work in Texas) > Cornell

helvidius2010
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Re: UT vs. Cornell

Postby helvidius2010 » Sat Feb 06, 2010 1:46 am

Employers in Texas will be suspicious of why you didn't go to UT. Most people down here consider UT to be the better school despite Cornell's slight ranking advantage. And Cornell's "Ivy name" is meaningless down here. It's not like you're comparing Texas to Harvard or Columbia.

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vanwinkle
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Re: UT vs. Cornell

Postby vanwinkle » Sat Feb 06, 2010 1:50 am

helvidius2010 wrote:Employers in Texas will be suspicious of why you didn't go to UT. Most people down here consider UT to be the better school despite Cornell's slight ranking advantage. And Cornell's "Ivy name" is meaningless down here. It's not like you're comparing Texas to Harvard or Columbia.

I don't think this is true. Most people in Texas do consider Texas to be one of the best degrees you can get, but lawyers aren't most people. They know what the top law schools and the rankings are, and they'll recognize the weight of a Cornell Law degree.

I think Texas is the right decision, but this is the wrong reason. Lawyers are not laypeople. Hiring lawyers especially are going to know the value of different programs, and you're not going to actually handicap yourself by going to Cornell.
Last edited by vanwinkle on Sat Feb 06, 2010 1:57 am, edited 1 time in total.

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JazzOne
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Re: UT vs. Cornell

Postby JazzOne » Sat Feb 06, 2010 1:55 am

vanwinkle wrote:I vote Texas also. Any slight advantage from attending a top-ranked Ivy is made up for by the fact that you get to spend 3 years in Austin instead of Ithaca.

+1

UT

helvidius2010
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Re: UT vs. Cornell

Postby helvidius2010 » Sat Feb 06, 2010 2:02 am

vanwinkle wrote:
helvidius2010 wrote:Employers in Texas will be suspicious of why you didn't go to UT. Most people down here consider UT to be the better school despite Cornell's slight ranking advantage. And Cornell's "Ivy name" is meaningless down here. It's not like you're comparing Texas to Harvard or Columbia.

I don't think this is true. Most people in Texas do consider Texas to be one of the best degrees you can get, but lawyers aren't most people. They know what the top law schools and the rankings are, and they'll recognize the weight of a Cornell Law degree.

I think Texas is the right decision, but this is the wrong people. Lawyers are not laypeople. Hiring lawyers especially are going to know the value of different programs, and you're not going to actually handicap yourself by going to Cornell.


Yeah, lawyers in Texas will see Cornell as a good school, but no better than UT. Like I said, it is not like comparing UT to Columbia or Harvard or such. Look up NALP, out of the Dallas offices of BB, F&J, and V&E, only V&E even does OCI at Cornell. All of these offices are full of people who went to UT, many of whom could have gone to Cornell. So yes, these lawyers (not laypeople) are going to wonder why someone chose Cornell.

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vanwinkle
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Re: UT vs. Cornell

Postby vanwinkle » Sat Feb 06, 2010 2:08 am

helvidius2010 wrote:Yeah, lawyers in Texas will see Cornell as a good school, but no better than UT. Like I said, it is not like comparing UT to Columbia or Harvard or such. Look up NALP, out of the Dallas offices of BB, F&J, and V&E, only V&E even does OCI at Cornell. All of these offices are full of people who went to UT, many of whom could have gone to Cornell. So yes, these lawyers (not laypeople) are going to wonder why someone chose Cornell.

You're suffering from a faulty assumption. You're seeing the low rate of Cornell grads going to Texas firms and assuming that it's an effect of Cornell having lower prestige. It's actually an effect of there being few people going to Cornell who want to live in TX; it's self-selection. Why would TX firms want to spend the money to go up to Cornell when most of the folks going to Cornell are people who don't want to work in TX?

Texas firms don't need to do OCI at T14s because most people who aren't from Texas don't want to go there to work when they graduate, and those that are will contact the firms in their hometowns outside of OCI. Going to Cornell for OCI is likely a waste of money since there are so few Texans choosing to go to Cornell. Those same firms are full of UT grads because most people who go to UT do want to stay in Texas.

It's not something where they'll be wondering why someone goes to Cornell, they know Cornell is a good school and worthy of being chosen by anyone capable of getting into Texas. In fact the Cornell degree could be a slight advantage because firms love to diversify their employment and they get a hell of a lot of UT grads, and being the one guy from Cornell who really wants to work at their firm will make you stand out.

However, that would be only a slight advantage, and like I said, it doesn't outweigh the fact that Austin is a far better place to live than Ithaca. So Texas is still the right decision.

helvidius2010
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Re: UT vs. Cornell

Postby helvidius2010 » Sat Feb 06, 2010 2:34 am

You're suffering from a faulty assumption.


You are suffering from a case of vomiting out the tired old laypeople/lawyer and self-selection distinctions. Everyone gets it. You are not breaking any new ground here. The fact is, there is still a small amount pro-Texas bias among Texas lawyers (not just laypeople). Texas lawyers do not think that UT is better than Harvard, Columbia, or even Virginia. But, despite Cornell's slight rankings advantage, they do consider UT to be every bit as good as and probably better than Cornell.

Texas firms don't need to do OCI at T14s because most people who aren't from Texas don't want to go there to work when they graduate, and those that are will contact the firms in their hometowns outside of OCI. Going to Cornell for OCI is likely a waste of money since there are so few Texans choosing to go to Cornell.


Funny how the Dallas offices of BB and F+J "waste money" going to OCI at every other T14 (plus Vandy) except for Cornell.

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vanwinkle
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Re: UT vs. Cornell

Postby vanwinkle » Sat Feb 06, 2010 2:36 am

helvidius2010 wrote:Funny how the Dallas offices of BB and F+J "waste money" going to OCI at every other T14 (plus Vandy) except for Cornell.

That probably says something about how few people at Cornell want to work in Dallas. Cornell is a school that is really targeted by people who wanna work in NYC, but can't get into CLS/NYU.

Also, you kinda concede that they see UT as about on the same level as Cornell. I think we're picking at nits here.

helvidius2010
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Re: UT vs. Cornell

Postby helvidius2010 » Sat Feb 06, 2010 2:46 am

Yes, we are picking nits here. But I assure you, the only thing from which I am suffering is Yeagermeister.

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vanwinkle
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Re: UT vs. Cornell

Postby vanwinkle » Sat Feb 06, 2010 2:49 am

helvidius2010 wrote:Yes, we are picking nits here. But I assure you, the only thing from which I am suffering is Yeagermeister.

That's not a bad thing to be suffering from. (And I assume you mean Jagermeister. :wink: )

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haole_20
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Re: UT vs. Cornell

Postby haole_20 » Sat Feb 06, 2010 2:53 am

Ok I think we're gradually getting off topic here. The point is that if you want to work in Texas then UT is the place to go. Period. It would definitely be debatable if you wanted to start comparing UT to Cornell for job prospects in NYC or most anywhere in the Northeast, but that's not the case here. Sudoku, UT is where you want to be.

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burtonrideclub
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Re: UT vs. Cornell

Postby burtonrideclub » Sat Feb 06, 2010 3:08 am

Pick Cornell, you will be one less person standing in my way for a UT acceptance.

Esc
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Re: UT vs. Cornell

Postby Esc » Sat Feb 06, 2010 11:57 am

There's a cogent argument to be made for picking UVA over UT for Texas. I don't agree with it, but I recognize its potential validity. However, there is no cogent argument to be made for Cornell over UT for Texas.

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SHARK WEEK!
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Re: UT vs. Cornell

Postby SHARK WEEK! » Sat Feb 06, 2010 1:18 pm

Esc wrote:There's a cogent argument to be made for picking UVA over UT for Texas. I don't agree with it, but I recognize its potential validity. However, there is no cogent argument to be made for Cornell over UT for Texas.


+1

Self-selection biases aside, in-state tuition aside, lay prestige and even employer prestige aside... the difference in the quality of education that you will receive at either school is essentially negligible. As long as you know you want to work in Texas, you should just pick the city you most want to live and study in for the next three years. I'll answer that for you: It's Austin.

Q.E.D.

/Thread

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kittenmittons
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Re: UT vs. Cornell

Postby kittenmittons » Sat Feb 06, 2010 1:25 pm

Esc wrote:There's a cogent argument to be made for picking UVA over UT for Texas. I don't agree with it, but I recognize its potential validity. However, there is no cogent argument to be made for Cornell over UT for Texas.


a) Texas all the way in this scenario
b) what about CC?

runn3rs
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Re: UT vs. Cornell

Postby runn3rs » Sat Feb 06, 2010 2:52 pm

Esc wrote:There's a cogent argument to be made for picking UVA over UT for Texas. I don't agree with it, but I recognize its potential validity. However, there is no cogent argument to be made for Cornell over UT for Texas.


I agree. I think you could make an argument for GULC or UVA (two similarly ranked schools) but its much harder to make the same argument for Cornell. FWIW, I agree with the argument that UVA is better than UT for someone hoping to practice in Texas.

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Veyron
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Re: UT vs. Cornell

Postby Veyron » Sat Feb 06, 2010 2:57 pm

I am the ultimate T-14 prestige whore. For anywhere else in America, Cornell easily. For Texas, Texas not a question in my mind. Texans are so damn proud of everything they have you realy think that they are going to give Cornell as much respect as their own precious UT. Hell, if I wanted to practice in Texas, I'd think fuckin' hard about turning down CCN for Texas - scholly or no. Damn state is like a whole other country.

Besides, why not follow in the footsteps of Joe Jamil?

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SHARK WEEK!
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Re: UT vs. Cornell

Postby SHARK WEEK! » Sat Feb 06, 2010 2:58 pm

runn3rs wrote:
Esc wrote:There's a cogent argument to be made for picking UVA over UT for Texas. I don't agree with it, but I recognize its potential validity. However, there is no cogent argument to be made for Cornell over UT for Texas.


I agree. I think you could make an argument for GULC or UVA (two similarly ranked schools) but its much harder to make the same argument for Cornell. FWIW, I agree with the argument that UVA is better than UT for someone hoping to practice in Texas.


lol, um no.

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catharsis
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Re: UT vs. Cornell

Postby catharsis » Sat Feb 06, 2010 3:01 pm

for Texas, Berkeley or UT?




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