There is no point in visiting a law school

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soda mayor
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There is no point in visiting a law school

Postby soda mayor » Fri Feb 05, 2010 4:54 pm

So yesterday I visited school X, a school in which I am considering attending but might not b/c I would have to pay the full tuition. I went to visit to see if it might help me make up my mind but I am in no better position than i was before. I toured the facilities. The building wasn't particularly nice but so what? That won't be a factor in my decision. I sat in on a class and met with some faculty. The class was interesting and the faculty was super-nice but really what faculty would be outright mean to an admitted student? I ate in the cafeteria and spoke with some students who seemed laid back and they were convincing me to matriculate there but I imagine that would happen at any school.

Basically it comes down to price of tuition after scholarships and job placement statistics. But all that information is available online. I just dont see the point of visiting a school.

09042014
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Re: There is no point in visiting a law school

Postby 09042014 » Fri Feb 05, 2010 4:56 pm

If you are choosing between Michigan and Virginia with equal cost, and you want NYC big law, why not choose based on the campus, they are peer schools and you are living there for three years.

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SAE
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Re: There is no point in visiting a law school

Postby SAE » Fri Feb 05, 2010 4:58 pm

.
Last edited by SAE on Fri Mar 26, 2010 10:38 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Unitas
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Re: There is no point in visiting a law school

Postby Unitas » Fri Feb 05, 2010 4:58 pm

soda mayor wrote:So yesterday I visited school X, a school in which I am considering attending but might not b/c I would have to pay the full tuition. I went to visit to see if it might help me make up my mind but I am in no better position than i was before. I toured the facilities. The building wasn't particularly nice but so what? That won't be a factor in my decision. I sat in on a class and met with some faculty. The class was interesting and the faculty was super-nice but really what faculty would be outright mean to an admitted student? I ate in the cafeteria and spoke with some students who seemed laid back and they were convincing me to matriculate there but I imagine that would happen at any school.

Basically it comes down to price of tuition after scholarships and job placement statistics. But all that information is available online. I just dont see the point of visiting a school.



Buildings matter a lot to me. Some are old and musty, some are nice and crisp. The chairs matter in the classrooms to. Sit in them, see if you could sit there for 3 years. Check out library, the grass, and my favorite thing to do is... wait for it... talk to a janitor. Janitors tend to know the MOST about schools. They are there all the time and will be honest and upfront with you more than students or professors. They don't care if you go and are rather easy to befriend. So in future tours: check out comfort levels, breate in the air, and talk to a janitor.

Why flame? It is a valid comment.

soda mayor
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Re: There is no point in visiting a law school

Postby soda mayor » Fri Feb 05, 2010 5:03 pm

Come on this is not a flame- just a thought. But honestly, the way the building looks shouldn't be THAT important. If you were accepted to Harvard Law and they then decided to move their law school into a wooden shack, you wouldn't attend? For such a prestigous legal eduaction I wouldn't mind being in a musty room.

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General Tso
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Re: There is no point in visiting a law school

Postby General Tso » Fri Feb 05, 2010 5:04 pm

I mostly agree with OP. Would you really choose a school like USF or Santa Clara over Hastings just b/c the campus is nicer? If you are debating between Hastings and Davis, and it's a total toss up for you where you want to live for the next 3 years, then yeah a visit would be in order.

It's mostly about ego. People want to pretend that their cushy new building = prestige or something. People at my UG think that once the new building goes up, the school will skyrocket in the USNWR.

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UFMatt
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Re: There is no point in visiting a law school

Postby UFMatt » Fri Feb 05, 2010 5:06 pm

Kakarot wrote:Check out library, the grass, and my favorite thing to do is... wait for it... talk to a janitor. Janitors tend to know the MOST about schools. They are there all the time and will be honest and upfront with you more than students or professors. They don't care if you go and are rather easy to befriend. So in future tours: check out comfort levels, breate in the air, and talk to a janitor.


I hope you enjoyed The Breakfast Club. :)

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Unitas
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Re: There is no point in visiting a law school

Postby Unitas » Fri Feb 05, 2010 5:08 pm

swheat wrote:I mostly agree with OP. Would you really choose a school like USF or Santa Clara over Hastings just b/c the campus is nicer? If you are debating between Hastings and Davis, and it's a total toss up for you where you want to live for the next 3 years, then yeah a visit would be in order.

It's mostly about ego. People want to pretend that their cushy new building = prestige or something. People at my UG think that once the new building goes up, the school will skyrocket in the USNWR.


I was talking about peer schools. Like going to all of CCN and seeing which one you are happiest with. There isn't much difference between 15-50 in the US news rankings of the schools. If you have a choice, go to the one based on comfort level there. 1-14 ls's though you should choose among the peers taking into consideration money and COL. A visit gives you a chance to see where you could envision yourself.

UFMatt wrote:
Kakarot wrote:Check out library, the grass, and my favorite thing to do is... wait for it... talk to a janitor. Janitors tend to know the MOST about schools. They are there all the time and will be honest and upfront with you more than students or professors. They don't care if you go and are rather easy to befriend. So in future tours: check out comfort levels, breate in the air, and talk to a janitor.


I hope you enjoyed The Breakfast Club. :)


I guess I am not the only old one here today, but seriously it works.

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ontologyfail
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Re: There is no point in visiting a law school

Postby ontologyfail » Fri Feb 05, 2010 5:09 pm

Kakarot wrote:
soda mayor wrote:So yesterday I visited school X, a school in which I am considering attending but might not b/c I would have to pay the full tuition. I went to visit to see if it might help me make up my mind but I am in no better position than i was before. I toured the facilities. The building wasn't particularly nice but so what? That won't be a factor in my decision. I sat in on a class and met with some faculty. The class was interesting and the faculty was super-nice but really what faculty would be outright mean to an admitted student? I ate in the cafeteria and spoke with some students who seemed laid back and they were convincing me to matriculate there but I imagine that would happen at any school.

Basically it comes down to price of tuition after scholarships and job placement statistics. But all that information is available online. I just dont see the point of visiting a school.



Buildings matter a lot to me. Some are old and musty, some are nice and crisp. The chairs matter in the classrooms to. Sit in them, see if you could sit there for 3 years. Check out library, the grass, and my favorite thing to do is... wait for it... talk to a janitor. Janitors tend to know the MOST about schools. They are there all the time and will be honest and upfront with you more than students or professors. They don't care if you go and are rather easy to befriend. So in future tours: check out comfort levels, breate in the air, and talk to a janitor.

Why flame? It is a valid comment.


+1

I visited a couple of schools, and while it didn't occur to me to actually talk to the janitors at that time, I did notice a pretty wide range of how the student bodies interacted with the non-prof staff members. Sure, there was variation within each school, but there were also some clear trends.

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WrappedUpInBooks
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Re: There is no point in visiting a law school

Postby WrappedUpInBooks » Fri Feb 05, 2010 5:12 pm

swheat wrote:I mostly agree with OP. Would you really choose a school like USF or Santa Clara over Hastings just b/c the campus is nicer? If you are debating between Hastings and Davis, and it's a total toss up for you where you want to live for the next 3 years, then yeah a visit would be in order.

It's mostly about ego. People want to pretend that their cushy new building = prestige or something. People at my UG think that once the new building goes up, the school will skyrocket in the USNWR.


But come on, if you got into Hastings and Santa Clara, with equal money at both, would you even visit Santa Clara?

Visiting is about deciding between peer schools, or one great school and one where you got $$$. It's only when they are at least somewhat equal to you that you visit - I'm sure few people visit every school they get into.

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englawyer
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Re: There is no point in visiting a law school

Postby englawyer » Fri Feb 05, 2010 5:13 pm

swheat wrote:I mostly agree with OP. Would you really choose a school like USF or Santa Clara over Hastings just b/c the campus is nicer? If you are debating between Hastings and Davis, and it's a total toss up for you where you want to live for the next 3 years, then yeah a visit would be in order.

It's mostly about ego. People want to pretend that their cushy new building = prestige or something. People at my UG think that once the new building goes up, the school will skyrocket in the USNWR.


exactly. this is why educational costs are spiraling out of control. keep up with the joneses so to speak. why the f*ck does BU need to have a jacuzzi in the fitness center? (i am not a student or alum, just heard about that place).

JOThompson
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Re: There is no point in visiting a law school

Postby JOThompson » Fri Feb 05, 2010 5:14 pm

soda mayor wrote:So yesterday I visited school X, a school in which I am considering attending but might not b/c I would have to pay the full tuition. I went to visit to see if it might help me make up my mind but I am in no better position than i was before. I toured the facilities. The building wasn't particularly nice but so what? That won't be a factor in my decision. I sat in on a class and met with some faculty. The class was interesting and the faculty was super-nice but really what faculty would be outright mean to an admitted student? I ate in the cafeteria and spoke with some students who seemed laid back and they were convincing me to matriculate there but I imagine that would happen at any school.

Basically it comes down to price of tuition after scholarships and job placement statistics. But all that information is available online. I just dont see the point of visiting a school.

Facilities may not be an important consideration, but I imagine that learning environment, collegiality, professor accessibility, etc. can all have an effect on your happiness and performance. If you don't want to visit your schools before forking out the seat deposit, three years of your life, and many thousands of dollars, that's fine, but it's a little overly-broad to say "there is no point in visiting a law school" when we're discussing peer schools.

soda mayor
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Re: There is no point in visiting a law school

Postby soda mayor » Fri Feb 05, 2010 5:18 pm

englawyer wrote:but it's a little overly-broad to say "there is no point in visiting a law school" when we're discussing peer schools.


Yea but if I didn't make that the title of the post, do you think there would have been 13 comments in 10 minutes?

cubswin
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Re: There is no point in visiting a law school

Postby cubswin » Fri Feb 05, 2010 5:22 pm

I've enjoyed visiting law schools and respectfully disagree, though I can understand some of your points.

JOThompson
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Re: There is no point in visiting a law school

Postby JOThompson » Fri Feb 05, 2010 5:37 pm

soda mayor wrote:
englawyer wrote:but it's a little overly-broad to say "there is no point in visiting a law school" when we're discussing peer schools.


Yea but if I didn't make that the title of the post, do you think there would have been 13 comments in 10 minutes?

I see what you did there. I do understand your perspective, of course. Ultimately, the decision to visit or not is a personal one and we all have different priorities.

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traehekat
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Re: There is no point in visiting a law school

Postby traehekat » Fri Feb 05, 2010 5:38 pm

Facilities are relatively important to me, but no it is not a huge factor. I DO believe, however, you may gain a certain "feeling" about a school by visiting. It could be the buildings, campus, students, faculty, whatever. SOMETHING is just giving you a good feeling about the school. Is this scientific? Obviously not. But doing well in law school is so important, and for me I excel when I am comfortable with my environment and surroundings, so if I immediately feel comfortable or at home at a school for whatever reason, that is definitely something to consider.

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BioEBear2010
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Re: There is no point in visiting a law school

Postby BioEBear2010 » Fri Feb 05, 2010 5:43 pm

traehekat wrote:Facilities are relatively important to me, but no it is not a huge factor. I DO believe, however, you may gain a certain "feeling" about a school by visiting. It could be the buildings, campus, students, faculty, whatever. SOMETHING is just giving you a good feeling about the school. Is this scientific? Obviously not. But doing well in law school is so important, and for me I excel when I am comfortable with my environment and surroundings, so if I immediately feel comfortable or at home at a school for whatever reason, that is definitely something to consider.

+1. You are going to be spending three years at whatever school you choose -- you should take the time to make sure you are picking a school where you feel comfortable.

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Chicklets
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Re: There is no point in visiting a law school

Postby Chicklets » Fri Feb 05, 2010 5:56 pm

Given that we are talking about choosing between peer schools........Things that you can only really appreciate by visiting

1. Ease of getting around, feeling of safe/not safe (maybe more of an issue for women), distance to parking/public transit.

2. Physical comfort, chairs/desks, lounge, food and bathroom availability.

3. Emotional comfort, does the environment feel relaxing or anxiety provoking.

4. Attitude of the students - do they seem happy? (I'm really affected by the attitudes of those around me. Don't hang out with me if you're going to be a downer).

I don't want to spend 3 years sitting in a physically uncomfortable place, having the surroundings seem unwelcoming, amongst people who are bummed out all the time, and fear for my safety when leaving the library at midnight if the alternative is to be somewhere that contributes to me feeling on top of the world!
Last edited by Chicklets on Fri Feb 05, 2010 6:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

wired
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Re: There is no point in visiting a law school

Postby wired » Fri Feb 05, 2010 6:06 pm

soda mayor wrote:
englawyer wrote:but it's a little overly-broad to say "there is no point in visiting a law school" when we're discussing peer schools.


Yea but if I didn't make that the title of the post, do you think there would have been 13 comments in 10 minutes?


Great idea - sensationalism for the sake of posts.

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wadeny
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Re: There is no point in visiting a law school

Postby wadeny » Fri Feb 05, 2010 6:20 pm

Visiting can help some people make up their mind, but I tend to agree with the OP. When it comes down to it, the school's cost and job prospects basically trump everything else. I will say, though, that visiting a school while on the WL could make a difference. That's not to say a visit will instantly boost your odds of admission, but stopping by the admissions office to talk with someone and keep your file fresh in their minds (assuming you don't come across poorly in person) might be worth it.

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sundevil77
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Re: There is no point in visiting a law school

Postby sundevil77 » Fri Feb 05, 2010 6:32 pm

I haven't visited any schools yet, but I can seem some of OPs point. That being said, I tend to agree with the following:
Chicklets wrote:Things that you can only really appreciate by visiting

1. Ease of getting around, feeling of safe/not safe (maybe more of an issue for women), distance to parking/public transit.

2. Physical comfort, chairs/desks, lounge, food and bathroom availability.

3. Emotional comfort, does the environment feel relaxing or anxiety provoking.

4. Attitude of the students - do they seem happy? (I'm really affected by the attitudes of those around me. Don't hang out with me if you're going to be a downer).

I don't want to spend 3 years sitting in a physically uncomfortable place, having the surroundings seem unwelcoming, amongst people who are bummed out all the time, and fear for my safety when leaving the library at midnight if the alternative is to be somewhere that contributes to me feeling on top of the world!


I would also add that while visiting one school might not be helpful, comparing different schools could be extremely useful. Also, I would have a lot of anxiety committing to a school that I had never visited.

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aIvin adams
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Re: There is no point in visiting a law school

Postby aIvin adams » Fri Feb 05, 2010 6:36 pm

walking around the neighborhood of yer school is invaluable, as well.

i would definitely visit campuses if i were choosing betw two schools.

a friend of mine at uc davis was admitted to several more prestigious schools that she thought she would prefer over davis. but she visited the campus and chose it and is very happy there.

gotta find good fung shooey

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vanwinkle
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Re: There is no point in visiting a law school

Postby vanwinkle » Fri Feb 05, 2010 6:40 pm

Visiting Harvard Law did not have a point because I was not accepted there.

Visiting BC helped me realize that the COL would be even higher than I expected and that I would be frustrated by the length and difficulty of commute if I lived where I wanted, and that I would not be able to easily contain my costs there. (BC was IMO the worst of both worlds; the law school is separate from the main campus and hard to get to from the rail line, but it's also in a very expensive neighborhood that would make affording a car difficult.)

Visiting UVA helped convince me that I liked both the school and the town, which went a long way toward putting me at ease in committing $150k to attend for three years. I especially liked the fact that I could see there were places to live that were cheap enough that I could afford to keep my car if I budgeted right, something I couldn't do if I went to many more urban schools.

There are valid points in visiting a law school, though I think they have a lot more to do with external factors such as surveying the town and area you'll live in, evaluate costs and transportation options, and things like that.

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GATORTIM
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Re: There is no point in visiting a law school

Postby GATORTIM » Fri Feb 05, 2010 6:42 pm

I visited Yale (only b/c I was attending a wedding in CT) and ended up hooking up with an undergrad...it was kinda worth it

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DoubleChecks
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Re: There is no point in visiting a law school

Postby DoubleChecks » Fri Feb 05, 2010 6:44 pm

i was sure id attend ASW before, but now im not as certain

i am 99% deadset on my school for a lot of reasons, including personal ones involving my SO

i am pretty adaptable, i guess you could say...i dont really mind the weather, the campus outlook, the city, etc. i mean, some are better than others (imo), but i make due regardless

now im starting to wonder if i should bother spending the money going to the ASW if im going to pick the school anyways..?

are there other factors important/significant about a school's ASW besides the "choosing it" part?




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