2xWL= "Auto Admit" if you apply third time?

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2xWL= "Auto Admit" if you apply third time?

Poll ended at Sun Mar 07, 2010 4:44 am

Yes, but only if you ED (i.e. can't apply to other schools)
5
5%
Yes, run the cycle 3x = a charm
6
6%
Yes, w/$$$
2
2%
Yes, at sticker
2
2%
Maybe, at sticker
7
7%
No, too complicated
8
8%
Hell no! Tough luck!
68
69%
 
Total votes: 98

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Kohinoor
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Re: 2xWL= "Auto Admit" if you apply third time?

Postby Kohinoor » Sat Feb 06, 2010 2:33 am

vanwinkle wrote:
Kohinoor wrote:
ccs224 wrote:This whole thread is stupid.

Baffling is a much better word for it.

I'm snowed in, I've got nothing better to do.

I'm literally drinking and watching this thread unfold.

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vanwinkle
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Re: 2xWL= "Auto Admit" if you apply third time?

Postby vanwinkle » Sat Feb 06, 2010 2:34 am

Kohinoor wrote:I'm literally drinking and watching this thread unfold.

Well, since you're here anyway, why don't I drag you into it.

You're a URM. Would you classify me, in my time here, as "anti-URM"?

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stratocophic
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Re: 2xWL= "Auto Admit" if you apply third time?

Postby stratocophic » Sat Feb 06, 2010 2:36 am

Thread summary:

Image

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ccs224
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Re: 2xWL= "Auto Admit" if you apply third time?

Postby ccs224 » Sat Feb 06, 2010 2:37 am

Kohinoor wrote:
ccs224 wrote:This whole thread is stupid.

Baffling is a much better word for it.


I don't find it baffling. Much of what everyone is saying makers sense, given their positions. It's just that their positions are also stupid.

As for entitlement, it is clear from the original post that the OP does not feel entitled to admission given his URM status or lsat/gpa, but instead feels entitled given his history of being waitlisted. That too is kind of stupid.

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tomhobbes
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Re: 2xWL= "Auto Admit" if you apply third time?

Postby tomhobbes » Sat Feb 06, 2010 2:40 am

PDaddy wrote:ONE LAST THING. WHO IN HELL CARES IF SCHOOLS COULD FILL THEIR CLASSES WITH 170 TEST TAKERS. EVERYONE KNOWS OR SHOULD KNOW THAT THE LSAT DOESN'T MEASURE THE SKILLS TO PERFORM AS A LAWYER. IF A LAW SCHOOL'S MANTRA IS TO PRODUCE GOOD LAWYERS, HOW MUCH SENSE DOES IT MAKE TO USE A TEST THAT DOESN'T SERVE THAT END?

Also, lets remember something, there are people with lower numbers than mine getting into T14's. My GPA is more than solid and so is my LSAT, and everyone knows it. If schools filled their classes with nothing but 170 test takers they'd wind up with nothing but a bunch of stupid, spoiled white boys who only did exceptionally well because they took an exam that was tailor made by and for them.

UC Berkeley knows it, Yale knows it and so does Harvard. Using the LSAT in its present form to test students into law school is like sorting applicants for "music school" by testing their ability to write rap lyrics. What kind of sense would that make when you have different styles of music and different skills within music performance? There are many kinds of law, and they all require different types of skills. The LSAT is a highly flawed test, albeit one I happened to do well on.

But this thread isn't about the LSAT. I wrote this thread because a top-10 had the nerve to WL me for a 3rd time, which is idiotic on their part, not mine. I actually laughed about it. They're the ones that will miss out on getting me. I'm going to get my legal education and degree regardless. I thought the topic would generate some intelligent conversation; instead, you predictably sunk it into an URM/AA thread. Congrats on missing an opportunity to intelligently discuss the ethics law schools employ.


Believe it or not, not all 170+ LSAT scorers are white, and not all of the white ones are stupid, spoiled, and male. Some might say that you're overgeneralizing, but I won't accuse you of that, because I think you're just making shit up.
Last edited by tomhobbes on Sat Feb 06, 2010 2:47 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Kohinoor
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Re: 2xWL= "Auto Admit" if you apply third time?

Postby Kohinoor » Sat Feb 06, 2010 2:40 am

vanwinkle wrote:
Kohinoor wrote:I'm literally drinking and watching this thread unfold.

Well, since you're here anyway, why don't I drag you into it.

You're a URM. Would you classify me, in my time here, as "anti-URM"?

not at all. overall, a very baffling thread indeed.

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stratocophic
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Re: 2xWL= "Auto Admit" if you apply third time?

Postby stratocophic » Sat Feb 06, 2010 2:41 am

ccs224 wrote:
Kohinoor wrote:
ccs224 wrote:This whole thread is stupid.

Baffling is a much better word for it.


I don't find it baffling. Much of what everyone is saying makers sense, given their positions. It's just that their positions are also stupid.

As for entitlement, it is clear from the original post that the OP does not feel entitled to admission given his URM status or lsat/gpa, but instead feels entitled given his history of being waitlisted. That too is kind of stupid.


Beg to differ:

PDaddy wrote:Also, lets remember something, there are people with lower numbers than mine getting into T14's. My GPA is more than solid and so is my LSAT, and everyone knows it. If schools filled their classes with nothing but 170 test takers they'd wind up with nothing but a bunch of stupid, spoiled white boys who only did exceptionally well because they took an exam that was tailor made by and for them.

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ccs224
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Re: 2xWL= "Auto Admit" if you apply third time?

Postby ccs224 » Sat Feb 06, 2010 2:47 am

stratocophic wrote:Beg to differ:

PDaddy wrote:Also, lets remember something, there are people with lower numbers than mine getting into T14's. My GPA is more than solid and so is my LSAT, and everyone knows it. If schools filled their classes with nothing but 170 test takers they'd wind up with nothing but a bunch of stupid, spoiled white boys who only did exceptionally well because they took an exam that was tailor made by and for them.


That didn't come until later. The original post is all waitlist-based angst, and I stand by my assessment of it.
Edit: I don't know how quotes work.

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stratocophic
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Re: 2xWL= "Auto Admit" if you apply third time?

Postby stratocophic » Sat Feb 06, 2010 2:49 am

ccs224 wrote:
stratocophic wrote:Beg to differ:

PDaddy wrote:Also, lets remember something, there are people with lower numbers than mine getting into T14's. My GPA is more than solid and so is my LSAT, and everyone knows it. If schools filled their classes with nothing but 170 test takers they'd wind up with nothing but a bunch of stupid, spoiled white boys who only did exceptionally well because they took an exam that was tailor made by and for them.


That didn't come until later. The original post is all waitlist-based angst, and I stand by my assessment of it.
Edit: I don't know how quotes work.


Reading comprehension fail on my part. Mah bad
I only really figured out how to use them like two days ago, don't sweat it

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Zapatero
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Re: 2xWL= "Auto Admit" if you apply third time?

Postby Zapatero » Sat Feb 06, 2010 2:51 am

ccs224 wrote:
stratocophic wrote:Beg to differ:

PDaddy wrote:Also, lets remember something, there are people with lower numbers than mine getting into T14's. My GPA is more than solid and so is my LSAT, and everyone knows it. If schools filled their classes with nothing but 170 test takers they'd wind up with nothing but a bunch of stupid, spoiled white boys who only did exceptionally well because they took an exam that was tailor made by and for them.


That didn't come until later. The original post is all waitlist-based angst, and I stand by my assessment of it.
Edit: I don't know how quotes work.


Sweet name.

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ccs224
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Re: 2xWL= "Auto Admit" if you apply third time?

Postby ccs224 » Sat Feb 06, 2010 2:51 am

stratocophic wrote:
Reading comprehension fail on my part. Mah bad
I only really figured out how to use them like two days ago, don't sweat it


That's okay. We can still be friends.

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ccs224
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Re: 2xWL= "Auto Admit" if you apply third time?

Postby ccs224 » Sat Feb 06, 2010 2:52 am

ccs1702 wrote:Sweet name.


I really resent your use of my initials.

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Zapatero
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Re: 2xWL= "Auto Admit" if you apply third time?

Postby Zapatero » Sat Feb 06, 2010 3:17 am

ccs224 wrote:
ccs1702 wrote:Sweet name.


I really resent your use of my initials.


Likewise.


Also, this thread makes me hurt.

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worldtraveler
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Re: 2xWL= "Auto Admit" if you apply third time?

Postby worldtraveler » Sat Feb 06, 2010 6:09 am

Even if schools did adopt this ludicrous strategy, they could get around it by just not answering applicants at all or by answering them late. WUSTL would be awesome at this strategy considering they already did that last year.

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PDaddy
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Re: 2xWL= "Auto Admit" if you apply third time?

Postby PDaddy » Sun Feb 07, 2010 10:35 pm

I could not resist responding just one more time. First of all, it happened again! LOL
And no, my name is NOT “Calabria…” and my e-mail is not "msn".

From: Virginia Law Admissions <lawadmit@virginia.edu>
To: "pcalabria@msn.com" <pcalabria@msn.com>
Sent: Monday, February 1, 2010 3:16:37 PM

Subject: Your Virginia Law Application

Dear "Mr. Calabria",

Thank you for your interest in Virginia Law. We have carefully reviewed your application. While we cannot offer you admission to the entering class at this time, we have placed you on our waiting list. Waitlisted applicants are continually evaluated against applications that are still arriving. Frequently Asked Questions (FAQs) about our waiting list can be found at http://www.law.virginia.edu/waitlist. We encourage you to review these FAQs carefully.

Probably the most common question asked is one without an easy answer: "Why was I waitlisted?" The admissions process at any law school necessarily involves a comparative evaluation of credentials, and, in most cases, such a decision is not attributable to any particular deficiency in your file, but rather reflects the very competitive nature of our applicant pool and the limitations of selecting an entering class of a particular size.

While this news may understandably be disappointing, your candidacy is assuredly still under consideration. I encourage you to notify us of new LSAT scores and to submit updated transcripts to LSAC and to keep us apprised of any relevant changes to your application or interest in Virginia Law.

Sincerely,

Jason Wu Trujillo '01
Senior Assistant Dean for Admissions and Financial Aid

Secondly, YOU ALL ARE MISUNDERSTANDING WHAT I AM SAYING.

Look, if a school wants to waitlist someone through a complete cycle (i.e., until orientation day) once. Cool. If they do it again? Cool. I have no problem with this. If a twice-waitlisted applicant (through complete cycles) applies to a school a third time, schools should be forced to either admit that student or deny him. Waitlisting the student should not, as a matter of rule, be an option. It is a waste of everyone’s time.

Also, schools should be allowed to keep just one waitlisted student for every seat in a class until June. If the school has 250 seats, they can only waitlist 250 students total. And in June, that list should be cut to a maximum of about1/5 of that, about 50 students. If a school has 350, then 70 students get past June-1. They should be required to reduce those lists in half by July-1. This way, students who are waitlisted past June and especially July know what schools they have a realistic shot at. They know what they are dealing with. Summer waitlist would actually mean something. Any school that keeps you past June would have to be a school that is seriously thinking of admitting you.

In the alternative, the ABA may want to consider adopting a rule that allows an applicant to reserve at sticker, a seat at any school that has waitlisted him for two complete cycles. A June waitlist would be considered a complete cycle. The schools would be protected against too many students taking advantage of this option because the seat would be at sticker. Many of these students (like me) would, theoretically, have scholarship options at other schools, so a number of them would not want to wait and, thus, take seats at other schools anyways.

As it stands, schools are now using waitlists to protect their yields and their selectivity ratings, but the students who get waitisted are not given any advantage at all. This rule would preclude schools from waitlisting students to stockpile the numbers and keep their medians from falling below their target levels, in effect, using the waitlists to “game the system”.

Schools should only waitlist students they are truly interested in admitting if spots open up. For all I know, most schools are doing this now. But it seems as though the schools are protecting themselves at the expense of students, who only have so much time and money available to make decisions. We need to know in June where we stand and the summer lists are still too long at many schools.

I am not whining about not getting in, as I said before. Sure, it’s a bit irritating, but I know where it is coming from. I also know that, had I been applying in 2004 with my numbers, I could have been at Harvard. Even now, I can go to just about any top-30 school and fulfill my dreams. But I do have some preferences, and not all of them are in the T14. This is not about me; it is about the integrity of the system. I have applied late in the cycles, which hasn’t helped me, and probably caused some of the waitlisting. Nevertheless, it is still wrong for a school to waitlist a student more than twice in a lifetime.

In exchange, I would be in favor of a "three strikes" rule, where students would only be allowed to apply to any school three times in a five year period. I would also advocate three strikes and you're out rule, where a student is only allowed to apply to a school as a first-year student three times in a lifetime.

I am in favor of limiting the number of applications an applicant can submit, to 15-20. This would force students to do their research and apply only to schools where they believe they have realistic chances at admission.

Did you not hear me say that I would be willing to pay sticker at one of my top choices if it waitlisted me twice? Does that sound “entitled”? I am advocating for efficiency.

To the poster who says he “differs” about my numbers (3.62/162) being adequate for the elite schools. You are an idiot. There are URM’s with both lower LSAT’s and GPA’s getting into top-10 schools, and doing very well. There are splitters of all backgrounds with 3.9/158 or 3.2/170 getting into the top-10 schools, and kicking ass. You sound ridiculous.

BTW, my LSAT score is in the highest percentiles for URM’s and above 85% for all test takers. A 3.62 in Biology is strong no matter where you went, but I attended a consensus top-10 public university.

Think for a minute. I have repeatedly said that this isn't just about ME. I mean it.

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D. H2Oman
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Re: 2xWL= "Auto Admit" if you apply third time?

Postby D. H2Oman » Sun Feb 07, 2010 10:37 pm

PDaddy wrote:I[strike]could not resist responding just one more time. First of all, it happened again! LOL
And no, my name is NOT “Calabria…” and my e-mail is not "msn".

From: Virginia Law Admissions <lawadmit@virginia.edu>
To: "pcalabria@msn.com" <pcalabria@msn.com>
Sent: Monday, February 1, 2010 3:16:37 PM

Subject: Your Virginia Law Application

Dear "Mr. Calabria",

Thank you for your interest in Virginia Law. We have carefully reviewed your application. While we cannot offer you admission to the entering class at this time, we have placed you on our waiting list. Waitlisted applicants are continually evaluated against applications that are still arriving. Frequently Asked Questions (FAQs) about our waiting list can be found at http://www.law.virginia.edu/waitlist. We encourage you to review these FAQs carefully.

Probably the most common question asked is one without an easy answer: "Why was I waitlisted?" The admissions process at any law school necessarily involves a comparative evaluation of credentials, and, in most cases, such a decision is not attributable to any particular deficiency in your file, but rather reflects the very competitive nature of our applicant pool and the limitations of selecting an entering class of a particular size.

While this news may understandably be disappointing, your candidacy is assuredly still under consideration. I encourage you to notify us of new LSAT scores and to submit updated transcripts to LSAC and to keep us apprised of any relevant changes to your application or interest in Virginia Law.

Sincerely,

Jason Wu Trujillo '01
Senior Assistant Dean for Admissions and Financial Aid

Secondly, YOU ALL ARE MISUNDERSTANDING WHAT I AM SAYING.

Look, if a school wants to waitlist someone through a complete cycle (i.e., until orientation day) once. Cool. If they do it again? Cool. I have no problem with this. If a twice-waitlisted applicant (through complete cycles) applies to a school a third time, schools should be forced to either admit that student or deny him. Waitlisting the student should not, as a matter of rule, be an option. It is a waste of everyone’s time.

Also, schools should be allowed to keep just one waitlisted student for every seat in a class until June. If the school has 250 seats, they can only waitlist 250 students total. And in June, that list should be cut to a maximum of about1/5 of that, about 50 students. If a school has 350, then 70 students get past June-1. They should be required to reduce those lists in half by July-1. This way, students who are waitlisted past June and especially July know what schools they have a realistic shot at. They know what they are dealing with. Summer waitlist would actually mean something. Any school that keeps you past June would have to be a school that is seriously thinking of admitting you.

In the alternative, the ABA may want to consider adopting a rule that allows an applicant to reserve at sticker, a seat at any school that has waitlisted him for two complete cycles. A June waitlist would be considered a complete cycle. The schools would be protected against too many students taking advantage of this option because the seat would be at sticker. Many of these students (like me) would, theoretically, have scholarship options at other schools, so a number of them would not want to wait and, thus, take seats at other schools anyways.

As it stands, schools are now using waitlists to protect their yields and their selectivity ratings, but the students who get waitisted are not given any advantage at all. This rule would preclude schools from waitlisting students to stockpile the numbers and keep their medians from falling below their target levels, in effect, using the waitlists to “game the system”.

Schools should only waitlist students they are truly interested in admitting if spots open up. For all I know, most schools are doing this now. But it seems as though the schools are protecting themselves at the expense of students, who only have so much time and money available to make decisions. We need to know in June where we stand and the summer lists are still too long at many schools.

I am not whining about not getting in, as I said before. Sure, it’s a bit irritating, but I know where it is coming from. I also know that, had I been applying in 2004 with my numbers, I could have been at Harvard. Even now, I can go to just about any top-30 school and fulfill my dreams. But I do have some preferences, and not all of them are in the T14. This is not about me; it is about the integrity of the system. I have applied late in the cycles, which hasn’t helped me, and probably caused some of the waitlisting. Nevertheless, it is still wrong for a school to waitlist a student more than twice in a lifetime.

In exchange, I would be in favor of a "three strikes" rule, where students would only be allowed to apply to any school three times in a five year period. I would also advocate three strikes and you're out rule, where a student is only allowed to apply to a school as a first-year student three times in a lifetime.

I am in favor of limiting the number of applications an applicant can submit, to 15-20. This would force students to do their research and apply only to schools where they believe they have realistic chances at admission.

Did you not hear me say that I would be willing to pay sticker at one of my top choices if it waitlisted me twice? Does that sound “entitled”? I am advocating for efficiency.

To the poster who says he “differs” about my numbers (3.62/162) being adequate for the elite schools. You are an idiot. There are URM’s with both lower LSAT’s and GPA’s getting into top-10 schools, and doing very well. There are splitters of all backgrounds with 3.9/158 or 3.2/170 getting into the top-10 schools, and kicking ass. You sound ridiculous.

BTW, my LSAT score is in the highest percentiles for URM’s and above 85% for all test takers. A 3.62 in Biology is strong no matter where you went, but I attended a consensus top-10 public university.

Think for a minute. I have repeatedly said that this isn't just about ME. I mean it[/strike].


Try again.

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PDaddy
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Re: 2xWL= "Auto Admit" if you apply third time?

Postby PDaddy » Sun Feb 07, 2010 10:41 pm

vanwinkle wrote:
You demanded proof of where you were acting entitled; here, you have provided more proof. Congratulations. God, this is 10 times as entitled as your previous posts; a top-10 had the nerve to WL you? Seriously? They'll miss out on getting you?! You write like you're the second coming of Christ.

A thread geared around how entitled you are to be admitted to top-10 law schools was never going to foster intelligent debate here.


Every law student thinks he is privileged to go to law school, and every law student thinks he brings something special to the schools he applies to. All I have done is stated a redundant common belief.

And you are the one who has been picked apart. You can't even read. I have NEVER said that the schoolsowed me admission. I only said they shouldn't be able to inconvenience students, which includes ME. Get it through your think head...geez!

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PDaddy
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Re: 2xWL= "Auto Admit" if you apply third time?

Postby PDaddy » Sun Feb 07, 2010 10:42 pm

PDaddy wrote:
vanwinkle wrote:
You demanded proof of where you were acting entitled; here, you have provided more proof. Congratulations. God, this is 10 times as entitled as your previous posts; a top-10 had the nerve to WL you? Seriously? They'll miss out on getting you?! You write like you're the second coming of Christ.

A thread geared around how entitled you are to be admitted to top-10 law schools was never going to foster intelligent debate here.


I get it...you are some retarded dude. LOL.

Every law student thinks he is privileged to go to law school, and every law student thinks he brings something special to the schools he applies to. All I have done is stated a redundant common belief.

And you are the one who has been picked apart. You can't even read. I have NEVER said that the schoolsowed me admission. I only said they shouldn't be able to inconvenience students, which includes ME. Get it through your think head...geez!

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vanwinkle
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Re: 2xWL= "Auto Admit" if you apply third time?

Postby vanwinkle » Sun Feb 07, 2010 11:58 pm

PDaddy wrote:
PDaddy wrote:
vanwinkle wrote:
You demanded proof of where you were acting entitled; here, you have provided more proof. Congratulations. God, this is 10 times as entitled as your previous posts; a top-10 had the nerve to WL you? Seriously? They'll miss out on getting you?! You write like you're the second coming of Christ.

A thread geared around how entitled you are to be admitted to top-10 law schools was never going to foster intelligent debate here.


I get it...you are some retarded dude. LOL.

Every law student thinks he is privileged to go to law school, and every law student thinks he brings something special to the schools he applies to. All I have done is stated a redundant common belief.

And you are the one who has been picked apart. You can't even read. I have NEVER said that the schoolsowed me admission. I only said they shouldn't be able to inconvenience students, which includes ME. Get it through your think head...geez!

You're still HERE? Haven't you shamed yourself enough already?

By the way, I read your rambling response you left above. MORE entitlement. Congratulations, you're a douchetruck. You just keep delivering.

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Doritos
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Re: 2xWL= "Auto Admit" if you apply third time?

Postby Doritos » Mon Feb 08, 2010 12:04 am

I'm on team vanwinkle

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joshhoward
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Re: 2xWL= "Auto Admit" if you apply third time?

Postby joshhoward » Mon Feb 08, 2010 12:24 am

/\
||


your superbowl commercials were awesome! go doritos!

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Kohinoor
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Re: 2xWL= "Auto Admit" if you apply third time?

Postby Kohinoor » Mon Feb 08, 2010 12:46 am

thread has become full of tl;dr

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vanwinkle
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Re: 2xWL= "Auto Admit" if you apply third time?

Postby vanwinkle » Mon Feb 08, 2010 12:48 am

Kohinoor wrote:thread has become full of tl;dr

Yeah, even I've grown tired of giving long responses, and that's saying something.

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Mr. Matlock
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Re: 2xWL= "Auto Admit" if you apply third time?

Postby Mr. Matlock » Mon Feb 08, 2010 1:15 am

:lol:
Maybe I'm waaaaaayyy out in right field on this one, since it hasn't been already brought up, but just how many people each year do you think this "Third Time's a Charm Wait List Policy" of yours would affect? I'm going to go out on a limb and open up the over/under at 5.

These are missile baffles:

--ImageRemoved--

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clintonius
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Re: 2xWL= "Auto Admit" if you apply third time?

Postby clintonius » Mon Feb 08, 2010 4:45 am

What a truly fantastic read for an insomniac newbie. Not there are any lessons to be learned that I hadn't picked up from, y'know, existing in a world where human relations and logic play any part. But still, bravo.




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