2xWL= "Auto Admit" if you apply third time?

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2xWL= "Auto Admit" if you apply third time?

Poll ended at Sun Mar 07, 2010 4:44 am

Yes, but only if you ED (i.e. can't apply to other schools)
5
5%
Yes, run the cycle 3x = a charm
6
6%
Yes, w/$$$
2
2%
Yes, at sticker
2
2%
Maybe, at sticker
7
7%
No, too complicated
8
8%
Hell no! Tough luck!
68
69%
 
Total votes: 98

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vanwinkle
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Re: 2xWL= "Auto Admit" if you apply third time?

Postby vanwinkle » Fri Feb 05, 2010 5:45 am

Kohinoor wrote:it appears the 0Ls are cracking under the strain. Just wait till classes start.

Dude, this guy can't even get into a law school.

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stratocophic
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Re: 2xWL= "Auto Admit" if you apply third time?

Postby stratocophic » Fri Feb 05, 2010 5:46 am

Kohinoor wrote:it appears the 0Ls are cracking under the strain. Just wait till classes start.


This is soooooo wors than law school will evar be dont mak fun of us 0ls kidding, of course

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PDaddy
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Re: 2xWL= "Auto Admit" if you apply third time?

Postby PDaddy » Fri Feb 05, 2010 5:52 am

vanwinkle wrote:Your argument is that you are fully aware of the low odds of the school admitting you off the WL, but that somehow the university is still lying to you about something. If you're aware of the risks and the low chances of success, what are they possibly lying about?


What does a WL say to a student? They would like to admit them, but cannot "find room" or make a definite decision at that point. Right? We all know this. What does a school say when it makes massive cuts but keeps you on their roster?

What does a school say when it then keeps you until August?

And, finally, what does a school say when it holds onto your app until orientation day? One school I spoke with over the summer said I was one of 35 applications on the dean's desk...35!!! That was all.

But, as you say, it sounds like I am "not qualified". This happened at nine Top-20 schools this past August...nine! And they had done it before. At this point, it should be shit or get off the pot. They either want me or they don't. But when you WL someone two times, you should be prohibited from doing it a third time. Either admit or deny. That's all I am saying. Let me know what is happening. Otherwise, I do think a rule should be in place, because it appears schools are using WL'ed students to protect their numbers. They are thinking more about themselves than the students.

To be fair, I think an applicant should be prohibited from applying to a school more than three times.

They know I want to go to their schools. They know I can do the work. They know I WILL do the work. My writing is very good, my letters are very good, my W.E. is very good. My apps are well put together.

I am not the only one going through this. Others are just afraid to say it.

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Kohinoor
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Re: 2xWL= "Auto Admit" if you apply third time?

Postby Kohinoor » Fri Feb 05, 2010 5:53 am

barrinmb wrote:
Kohinoor wrote:it appears the 0Ls are cracking under the strain. Just wait till classes start.


This is soooooo wors than law school will evar be dont mak fun of us 0ls kidding, of course

lol... oh just you wait till the day after your last exam. And the day before your first. and the hour after your first. and the lag between your first and second grade. and second and third... and...

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PDaddy
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Re: 2xWL= "Auto Admit" if you apply third time?

Postby PDaddy » Fri Feb 05, 2010 5:54 am

vanwinkle wrote:
Kohinoor wrote:it appears the 0Ls are cracking under the strain. Just wait till classes start.

Dude, this guy can't even get into a law school.


Dude, did you read above, I got into several top-tier schools, they just weren't the ones I wanted. In fact, there are people busting their asses to get into the schools I got into.

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stratocophic
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Re: 2xWL= "Auto Admit" if you apply third time?

Postby stratocophic » Fri Feb 05, 2010 5:57 am

Kohinoor wrote:
barrinmb wrote:
Kohinoor wrote:it appears the 0Ls are cracking under the strain. Just wait till classes start.


This is soooooo wors than law school will evar be dont mak fun of us 0ls kidding, of course

lol... oh just you wait till the day after your last exam. And the day before your first. and the hour after your first. and the lag between your first and second grade. and second and third... and...


I'm absolutely terrified of law school. Engineering is gawd-awful, but rigidly structured. At least I'll probably like it better, I certainly can't like it less.

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PDaddy
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Re: 2xWL= "Auto Admit" if you apply third time?

Postby PDaddy » Fri Feb 05, 2010 6:01 am

vanwinkle wrote:
PDaddy wrote:I sound entitled? No...the people who oppose AA sound entitled when they complain about URM's getting into schools instead of them. I am certainly not entitled to go to any particular school. But if a school doesn't want me, they should shoot straight and not BS, just like they shouldn't lie about their employment stats.

Students who complain about schools inflating their employment stats aren't saying they are "entitled to a job". They are saying that they entitled to HONESTY! Don't WL anyone 3 times. On the third app, either admit them or dont! That is all I am saying.

Entitled my ass. The only "self-entitled" students on any of these boards are white.

Yes, you definitely sound entitled. You sound entitled to having the entire system revamped just to suit your particular desires and opinions. Also, blanket statements like 'the only "self-entitled" students on any of these boards are white' is highly offensive and even racist. You are not doing yourself a favor at all with this hostility.

You are getting honesty from these schools. You are getting a statement from them that they are not prepared to admit you and that they are willing to keep you around for a chance, which you admit you know is small, that you might still get admitted if someone else withdraws. Your problem is that this is not the answer you want. It is a truthful answer, but it is not acceptable to you, so you reject it.

If you don't want to keep getting waitlisted over and over again, the simple solution is to stop applying to the school that is waitisting you. One straightforward definition of insanity is performing the same action over and over again and expecting different results. Consider that for a moment.



Fail. Not the same action. Different essays, updated resume, additional LOR's. Every time. Thus, it is a different action. And, yes, it is an honest answer, but not with an honest "motive". There's a difference. I would not apply to a school more than three times anyways.

You know what's bugging you? You probably can't even get on the waitlists of the schools I am talking about. And now that you know I am URM, it burns you up. That's why you sound like Biff right now. lol.

I have gotten into top-30's at least. These schools will do me correct this time. But this isn't just about me, it's about all of the other students who are going through the same thing, and about the schools. This is another way they game the system.

You see, what you don't realize is that the schools hold students so that the seats at other schools get full, then if they offer a WL'ed student a seat, that student is more likely to accept it and not ask for $$$. This is yield protection. It's what schools are doing with the WL. If you don't see how that is hurting large numbers of students from ALL backgrounds, you are blind.

You would love for me and other URM's to stop applying so that might, in your mind, free up seats for you and people like you. That's YOUR angle. Tough!

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stratocophic
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Re: 2xWL= "Auto Admit" if you apply third time?

Postby stratocophic » Fri Feb 05, 2010 6:05 am

PDaddy wrote:
vanwinkle wrote:
PDaddy wrote:I sound entitled? No...the people who oppose AA sound entitled when they complain about URM's getting into schools instead of them. I am certainly not entitled to go to any particular school. But if a school doesn't want me, they should shoot straight and not BS, just like they shouldn't lie about their employment stats.

Students who complain about schools inflating their employment stats aren't saying they are "entitled to a job". They are saying that they entitled to HONESTY! Don't WL anyone 3 times. On the third app, either admit them or dont! That is all I am saying.

Entitled my ass. The only "self-entitled" students on any of these boards are white.

Yes, you definitely sound entitled. You sound entitled to having the entire system revamped just to suit your particular desires and opinions. Also, blanket statements like 'the only "self-entitled" students on any of these boards are white' is highly offensive and even racist. You are not doing yourself a favor at all with this hostility.

You are getting honesty from these schools. You are getting a statement from them that they are not prepared to admit you and that they are willing to keep you around for a chance, which you admit you know is small, that you might still get admitted if someone else withdraws. Your problem is that this is not the answer you want. It is a truthful answer, but it is not acceptable to you, so you reject it.

If you don't want to keep getting waitlisted over and over again, the simple solution is to stop applying to the school that is waitisting you. One straightforward definition of insanity is performing the same action over and over again and expecting different results. Consider that for a moment.



Fail. Not the same action. Different essays, updated resume, additional LOR's. Every time. Thus, it is a different action. And, yes, it is an honest answer, but not with an honest "motive". There's a difference. I would not apply to a school more than three times anyways.

You know what's bugging you? You probably can't even get on the waitlists of the schools I am talking about. And now that you know I am URM, it burns you up. That's why you sound like Biff right now. lol.

I have gotten into top-30's at least. These schools will do me correct this time. But this isn't just about me, it's about all of the other students who are going through the same thing, and about the schools. This is another way they game the system.

You see, what you don't realize is that the schools hold students so that the seats at other schools get full, then if they offer a WL'ed student a seat, that student is more likely to accept it and not ask for $$$. This is yield protection. It's what schools are doing with the WL. If you don't see how that is hurting large numbers of students from ALL backgrounds, you are blind.

You would love for me and other URM's to stop applying so that might, in your mind, free up seats for you and people like you. That's YOUR angle. Tough!


Ah... *awkwardcough* he's a 1L at UVA.

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Kohinoor
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Re: 2xWL= "Auto Admit" if you apply third time?

Postby Kohinoor » Fri Feb 05, 2010 6:09 am

barrinmb wrote:
Kohinoor wrote:
barrinmb wrote:
Kohinoor wrote:it appears the 0Ls are cracking under the strain. Just wait till classes start.


This is soooooo wors than law school will evar be dont mak fun of us 0ls kidding, of course

lol... oh just you wait till the day after your last exam. And the day before your first. and the hour after your first. and the lag between your first and second grade. and second and third... and...


I'm absolutely terrified of law school. Engineering is gawd-awful, but rigidly structured. At least I'll probably like it better, I certainly can't like it less.

Law school can be fun... for a little while.

During term: "It's great to see how history and the law come together!"
After first final: "What the FUCK was that?!"

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stratocophic
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Re: 2xWL= "Auto Admit" if you apply third time?

Postby stratocophic » Fri Feb 05, 2010 6:14 am

Kohinoor wrote:
barrinmb wrote:
Kohinoor wrote:
barrinmb wrote:This is soooooo wors than law school will evar be dont mak fun of us 0ls kidding, of course

lol... oh just you wait till the day after your last exam. And the day before your first. and the hour after your first. and the lag between your first and second grade. and second and third... and...


I'm absolutely terrified of law school. Engineering is gawd-awful, but rigidly structured. At least I'll probably like it better, I certainly can't like it less.

Law school can be fun... for a little while.

During term: "It's great to see how history and the law come together!"
After first final: "What the FUCK was that?!"


Sounds like I'll be right at home, in that case. Maybe engineering isn't the best prep in terms of writing practice, but it sure as hell sets you up to accept low grades and incomprehensible exams without blinking an eye.

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PDaddy
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Re: 2xWL= "Auto Admit" if you apply third time?

Postby PDaddy » Fri Feb 05, 2010 6:35 am

barrinmb wrote:
Ah... *awkwardcough* he's a 1L at UVA.


So he claims. Even if so, UVA is the worst offender. Great school, but they have definitely started a trend. UVA waitlists everybody. I think my grandmother was waitlisted there. LOL.

That aside, I feel sorry for his classmates, especially the URM's he thinks are "unqualified". If he wasn't so focussed on numbers, he would not have asked for mine. So, despite what he says, he is obviously some arrogant, snotty white dude who thinks only people with 172/3.8+ should get into such schools.

Nevermind if I worked two jobs during UG (in management, no less), overcame harsh circumstances, or studied in a hard major. Nevermind if I went to a top-10 UG. Nevermind my LSAT score is in the 98% of African American's and 85% of all test takers. And a 3.62 GPA is nothing to sneeze at. He called me "unqualified", which is the first time I have ever heard of that. That guy is a flame and a gunner.

And btw, I have never posted anything that could reasonably be construed as "entitled". This thread was probably the closest, and if you think about it, I am right. The WL are being used to game the numbers. I am like the pretty girl at school who doesn't get asked to the prom b/c everyone thinks she already has a date. I think every school is scared that I will not come if offered. I refuse to tell them what schools I have applied to, and that might also be of concern. I know that many WL is damn odd.

galahad85
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Re: 2xWL= "Auto Admit" if you apply third time?

Postby galahad85 » Fri Feb 05, 2010 6:57 am

This is absurd.

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im_blue
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Re: 2xWL= "Auto Admit" if you apply third time?

Postby im_blue » Fri Feb 05, 2010 7:03 am

Snwboarder78 wrote:Waitlists are not unique to law school. Med schools have waitlists too. That is just how it works. A waitlist is still better than a rejection.


Why is a WL better than a rejection, if neither one results in admission? WL is like the girl who strings you along for months before she crushes your hopes. You never had a chance, either way.

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stratocophic
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Re: 2xWL= "Auto Admit" if you apply third time?

Postby stratocophic » Fri Feb 05, 2010 7:07 am

galahad85 wrote:This is absurd.


Seconded. Not worth the effort.

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Borhas
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Re: 2xWL= "Auto Admit" if you apply third time?

Postby Borhas » Fri Feb 05, 2010 10:17 am

in with $$$

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07ggfa5
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Re: 2xWL= "Auto Admit" if you apply third time?

Postby 07ggfa5 » Fri Feb 05, 2010 10:21 am

On a parallel note, I have a friend who applied to the same dental school for three years straight. He was WL'd in the first two years. His numbers were not great. I believe both his GPA and DAT were below average. He kept retaking the DAT but his score didn't improve at all and nothing on his app really changed substantially except doing a master's in some easy BS to fill the void.

But on his third try, he finally got it without WL despite the fact that there were other more qualified applicants. He even admitted that it was a miracle. My other friends who were applying to the same school with far better numbers didn't get in and were pissed off at this 'unfairness'... lol

Maybe applying repeatedly shows the school that you really are committed and desperate to attend that school thus increasing your chances slightly each time you apply. Ad comms are human and they can be moved emotionally in rare cases I suppose.

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Borhas
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Re: 2xWL= "Auto Admit" if you apply third time?

Postby Borhas » Fri Feb 05, 2010 10:27 am

I think it shows commitment, but I don't really care about people getting on or off wait lists. If a school says wait lists are for qualified candidates then they should mean it. I'm not a fan of bullshit.

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D. H2Oman
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Re: 2xWL= "Auto Admit" if you apply third time?

Postby D. H2Oman » Fri Feb 05, 2010 10:32 am

PDaddy you are a moron.

imisscollege
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Re: 2xWL= "Auto Admit" if you apply third time?

Postby imisscollege » Fri Feb 05, 2010 10:47 am

They WL you because your numbers blow (relative to their medians) and they are trying to have their URMs have the best numbers possible and hurt their numbers/rankings the least amount possible as a result. They know they will be taking a hit when admitting URMs and their goal is to take the smallest hit possible. They are never sure whether you will make up one of the last URM spots or if another URM with slightly better numbers will come along and scoop up that last spot which would be better for them. Each of these cycles you were probably borderline WL/reject and it's not really any skin off their backs to keep you around, so they do...just in case their more qualified URM candidates don't shape up the way they were hoping.

Your entitled attitude with ridiculously sup-par (again relatively) numbers demonstrates everything that is wrong with AA.

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rayiner
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Re: 2xWL= "Auto Admit" if you apply third time?

Postby rayiner » Fri Feb 05, 2010 11:18 am

What a random proposal.

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Kiersten1985
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Re: 2xWL= "Auto Admit" if you apply third time?

Postby Kiersten1985 » Fri Feb 05, 2010 11:28 am

This was a hilarious way to start off my morning. :lol:

Seriously. I don't know why you're at all surprised with waitlists with your numbers and frankly, you just don't seem to have the tough skin for practicing law in the first place. Go to a school that accepts you (since you claim such good schools have) and move on. No one is afraid you're going to "take his or her spot." Get over yourself.

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underachiever
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Re: 2xWL= "Auto Admit" if you apply third time?

Postby underachiever » Fri Feb 05, 2010 11:30 am

Snwboarder78 wrote:Waitlists are not unique to law school. Med schools have waitlists too. That is just how it works. A waitlist is still better than a rejection.


Nope, just leads to false hope for many.

Kohinoor wrote:it appears the 0Ls are cracking under the strain. Just wait till classes start.


Please, helps when electives come around 2nd semester, they will bump us up on the curve come 2L/3L year

jnorsky
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Re: 2xWL= "Auto Admit" if you apply third time?

Postby jnorsky » Fri Feb 05, 2010 11:30 am

For a urm your numbers are pretty decent, but again, some could say you arent qualified because i you were white, youd be lucky to be attending a T1, but it sounds like you are applying way too late. They have accepted a bunch of people with numbers like yours already. WTF you doing till december? Apply in september and stop bitching.

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vanwinkle
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Re: 2xWL= "Auto Admit" if you apply third time?

Postby vanwinkle » Fri Feb 05, 2010 2:21 pm

PDaddy wrote:You would love for me and other URM's to stop applying so that might, in your mind, free up seats for you and people like you. That's YOUR angle. Tough!

As I have said before, I have been one of the strongest defenders of URM boosts and AA on this board.

PDaddy wrote:
barrinmb wrote:Ah... *awkwardcough* he's a 1L at UVA.

So he claims.

Yes, I've just been making it up for the past several months. I rented an apartment in C-ville, met with UVA 1Ls, attended orientation, and currently roam the halls of the law school, passing by other UVA TLSers, just in order to reinforce a fantasy online that I am a UVA Law student. :roll:

PDaddy wrote:That aside, I feel sorry for his classmates, especially the URM's he thinks are "unqualified". If he wasn't so focussed on numbers, he would not have asked for mine.

I have never told or thought that any of my classmates is "unqualified". I asked about your numbers because schools are focused on numbers. Yours are not exactly great. They're not terrible, but they're not great. I needed to know what your numbers were in order to evaluate your chances, because that's part of what schools use.

PDaddy wrote:So, despite what he says, he is obviously some arrogant, snotty white dude who thinks only people with 172/3.8+ should get into such schools.

This is just hilarious. I didn't even have near a 172/3.8 myself. I've been defending and helping URMs for some time on here. I even lurk in the URM 2009-2010 application cycle thread trying to give advice to URMs there to help them out.

Fortunately most of them are far less arrogant than you are.

PDaddy wrote:Nevermind if I worked two jobs during UG (in management, no less), overcame harsh circumstances, or studied in a hard major. Nevermind if I went to a top-10 UG. Nevermind my LSAT score is in the 98% of African American's and 85% of all test takers. And a 3.62 GPA is nothing to sneeze at. He called me "unqualified", which is the first time I have ever heard of that. That guy is a flame and a gunner.

If schools consistently WL you while admitting other URM candidates, an outside observer is going to objectively and fairly assume the problem is with your application and not with a dozen different schools. Occam's Razor, look it up.

PDaddy wrote:And btw, I have never posted anything that could reasonably be construed as "entitled". This thread was probably the closest, and if you think about it, I am right. The WL are being used to game the numbers. I am like the pretty girl at school who doesn't get asked to the prom b/c everyone thinks she already has a date. I think every school is scared that I will not come if offered. I refuse to tell them what schools I have applied to, and that might also be of concern. I know that many WL is damn odd.

I love how you say you have never posted anything that could be construed as entitled, and then spent the rest of the paragraph explaining why you feel entitled to an admission at these schools and the only possible explanation for you not being admitted is the schools playing some kind of game with you.

That many WLs is a bit odd, but not entirely unsurprising. It can easily be explained by assuming that there is something in your application that these schools don't like. Something must be causing them to consistently WL you.

Your problem is that a WL doesn't automatically get you in, and everyone knows it doesn't, but you know you can get accepted to lower-ranked schools and you simply refuse to attend them. That's your choice, and it's not the fault of these schools that you keep applying again and again despite being repeatedly told you're not going to get an acceptance to them. Your insistence that repeated WLs should lead to an automatic acceptance, or that schools should change their WL policy because you personally do not like it, shows a very clear sense of entitlement.

Either go to a school that actually accepts you or stop applying to law school. By now it's clear those are your options, but you'd rather force the entire system to be rewritten than accept one of the two.

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stratocophic
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Re: 2xWL= "Auto Admit" if you apply third time?

Postby stratocophic » Fri Feb 05, 2010 2:34 pm

vanwinkle wrote:
PDaddy wrote:
barrinmb wrote:Ah... *awkwardcough* he's a 1L at UVA.

So he claims.

Yes, I've just been making it up for the past several months. I rented an apartment in C-ville, met with UVA 1Ls, attended orientation, and currently roam the halls of the law school, passing by other UVA TLSers, just in order to reinforce a fantasy online that I am a UVA Law student. :roll:


Oh God van winkle is this guy and now he's doing it at UVA, but with a vengeance! --LinkRemoved--

Edit: quotes fix'd
Last edited by stratocophic on Fri Feb 05, 2010 2:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.




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