UGPA/GPA??

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gmreplay
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UGPA/GPA??

Postby gmreplay » Tue Feb 02, 2010 12:24 am

I saw someone say this on another board here "It moves my university GPA to a 3.8 but my LSAC only from a 3.23 to a 3.3"

Maybe I've missed something, but what is the difference between your GPA, your school's GPA and the LSAC GPA? How is it calculated, when is it calculated and do I need to worry about it, or is it done automatically?

Thanks

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vanwinkle
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Re: UGPA/GPA??

Postby vanwinkle » Tue Feb 02, 2010 12:30 am

The LSAC GPA is the only one that truly matters for law school admissions. They take transcripts from ALL your classes at ALL attended institutions, add up ALL the hours you were enrolled in and ALL the grade points you earned (adjusted for a 4.0/4.3 system), and then divides it to create one massive overall GPA for your entire college life.

Except they don't add in anything you took after you got your first bachelor's degree. So that second bachelor's or your master's GPA, if you have one, won't matter at all, if those are hours you earned after getting your first bachelor's.

This is why some people end up "screwed". They do poorly at one college institution, move to another, do well there and have a high major/school GPA, but when LSAC adds in the grades they got at their first school, it drags the whole thing down. This happened to me, too, but it's life and something I just dealt with because I had to.

(Oh, also, if you fail to report enrollment at a college institution to try to get around this, and schools find out, they can reject your application or even kick you out if you've already enrolled. Finding out that you're hiding something is not good, and since they ask for the info, it's essentially a lie of omission.)

weejonbu
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Re: UGPA/GPA??

Postby weejonbu » Tue Feb 02, 2010 12:33 am

Ditto.

UGPA (University GPA) refers to the GPA you receive from the institution that grants your degree. However, if you are like many TLSers (including me), you transferred from another school to your final university, or did studies abroad, etc. and that count towards your overall GPA for LSDAS (thank God). This can either help or hurt you, depending on if you did work elsewhere and if it was good or not.

Also, vanwinkle is right on... except that if you double major at the same time (i.e., graduate with a double bachelor's) you aren't screwed in that sense

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vanwinkle
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Re: UGPA/GPA??

Postby vanwinkle » Tue Feb 02, 2010 12:34 am

weejonbu wrote:Also, vanwinkle is right on... except that if you double major at the same time (i.e., graduate with a double bachelor's) you aren't screwed in that sense

Yeah, you can double-major and have it all count as long as you make sure you don't graduate with one degree before the other. You just delay graduation until you have enough credits to get both.

gmreplay
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Re: UGPA/GPA??

Postby gmreplay » Tue Feb 02, 2010 1:33 am

Thank you very much gentlemen. I was just a bit worried that I missed something, particularly when so many schools seem to accept such low GPAs. I have a 3.92 overall at the only college I've ever attended, with two A pluses in there too, so that can't hurt. I thought perhaps LSAC put your GPA through some wacky program that calculates the prestige score of your school versus your grades there and prints out a number that crushes your soul. But I shouldn't be giving them ideas...

In any case, thanks again.

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vanwinkle
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Re: UGPA/GPA??

Postby vanwinkle » Tue Feb 02, 2010 1:35 am

gmreplay wrote:Thank you very much gentlemen. I was just a bit worried that I missed something, particularly when so many schools seem to accept such low GPAs. I have a 3.92 overall at the only college I've ever attended, with two A pluses in there too, so that can't hurt. I thought perhaps LSAC put your GPA through some wacky program that calculates the prestige score of your school versus your grades there and prints out a number that crushes your soul. But I shouldn't be giving them ideas...

In any case, thanks again.

A 3.92 is a really sick GPA to have, and will open doors for you. Are you applying this cycle or next, and what's your LSAT?

(I know, you didn't come to this thread seeking admissions/chances advice, but now you've piqued my curiosity. :D )

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flyingpanda
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Re: UGPA/GPA??

Postby flyingpanda » Tue Feb 02, 2010 1:46 am

gmreplay wrote:Thank you very much gentlemen. I was just a bit worried that I missed something, particularly when so many schools seem to accept such low GPAs. I have a 3.92 overall at the only college I've ever attended, with two A pluses in there too, so that can't hurt. I thought perhaps LSAC put your GPA through some wacky program that calculates the prestige score of your school versus your grades there and prints out a number that crushes your soul. But I shouldn't be giving them ideas...

In any case, thanks again.


Yeah you're fine, the people most affected by this are people who transferred or people who repeated classes, since LSAC doesn't replace the grades. Because of this I ended up with like 3 failed classes :(

gmreplay
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Re: UGPA/GPA??

Postby gmreplay » Tue Feb 02, 2010 1:58 am

It's a 3.92 from the University of Michigan-Dearborn, so I'm afraid it's not going to be worth quite the same as a similar GPA from a ritzier school. Personally I think it's a fine university, but it's not my opinion that counts come admission time.

I was testing around 163 on older tests up until a couple of weeks ago, but with a few new techniques and on the more recent tests I've been getting 165-166 consistently (even on the much maligned June and September 09 exams).

I'm really in the dark as far as my prospects for admissions go. The cold, scary dark. I'm taking the test on Saturday and I feel like I'm going to have a stroke from sheer fear of what it means for my future. I know I've got zero chance of getting into U of M law unless I bring up my LSAT by two or three points at least, which is doubtful. I'd be elated with GWU or something similar.

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vanwinkle
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Re: UGPA/GPA??

Postby vanwinkle » Tue Feb 02, 2010 2:07 am

gmreplay wrote:It's a 3.92 from the University of Michigan-Dearborn, so I'm afraid it's not going to be worth quite the same as a similar GPA from a ritzier school. Personally I think it's a fine university, but it's not my opinion that counts come admission time.

I was testing around 163 on older tests up until a couple of weeks ago, but with a few new techniques and on the more recent tests I've been getting 165-166 consistently (even on the much maligned June and September 09 exams).

I'm really in the dark as far as my prospects for admissions go. The cold, scary dark. I'm taking the test on Saturday and I feel like I'm going to have a stroke from sheer fear of what it means for my future. I know I've got zero chance of getting into U of M law unless I bring up my LSAT by two or three points at least, which is doubtful. I'd be elated with GWU or something similar.

I have really, really good news for you. Actually more than one piece of good news:

1) They don't care where your degree is from. At all. Unless you're talking about Harvard, Yale, or Chicago (which I guess is trying to act all prestigious by weighing in undergrad location too) and they're all unfortunately out of your range anyway. Otherwise, UM-Dearborn is quite fine and they won't hold it against you that you went to a satellite state school. What matters is primarily your GPA, and yours is great.

2) With a 166+ and ED I think you have a shot at some lower T14 schools. Just pick the one you want to go to most and ED to it. I'm at UVA now and I know at least a couple people are here who ED'd with mid-160 LSAT scores and GPAs around yours and got in. If you apply early next cycle, I think you could get into UVA ED with a 3.92/166+.

3) Depending on your strategy you can increase your chances even further by EDing to more than one school. UVA has extended their ED deadline, and will likely do so again next year. If they do, what you can do is ED to another lower T14 (like Penn or NU) and then if they WL or reject you, turn around and ED to UVA.

4) Keep working at it, because every LSAT point increases your odds of acceptance. If you can break 170 you will have scholarship offers from T14 schools. 3.92/170+ = $$$, not kidding. Keep that in mind and work for it! You're almost there. Shoot for the stars, and even if you don't quite make it, know that high 160s will still be enough to help you get into some great schools.

When you take the LSAT and get your actual LSAT score, be sure to come back for more specific advice on this, but keep all of this in mind. A GPA that high combined with at least a 166 LSAT and a good application strategy can get you into a great school.

gmreplay
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Re: UGPA/GPA??

Postby gmreplay » Tue Feb 02, 2010 2:14 am

You just made my day. I was doom and gloom but now I'm all smiles. Thanks a lot man. I guess I probably should keep up my efforts in school in my last week before the LSAT after all. From what I gathered about the weighting system that most schools have the GPA just seemed like an afterthought.

By God I'm going to keep hammering this test in the next few days and I'm going to do my best to break 166. You just gave me a lot of confidence.

After spending all my time on the LSAT prep board here I was starting to think that I was the lone dummy in a crowd of pretentious and self absorbed geniuses, but I'm very happy to stand corrected.

By the way, what does ED stand for? I haven't picked up that piece of lingo yet and a quick google search doesn't turn up anything.

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big_blue79
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Re: UGPA/GPA??

Postby big_blue79 » Tue Feb 02, 2010 2:27 am

gmreplay wrote:After spending all my time on the LSAT prep board here I was starting to think that I was the lone dummy in a crowd of pretentious and self absorbed geniuses, but I'm very happy to stand corrected.

By the way, what does ED stand for? I haven't picked up that piece of lingo yet and a quick google search doesn't turn up anything.


Bolded is epicly stated.

ED = Early Decision. It helps you get into a school if you're borderline, but it's almost always binding. If you break that contract (if they accept you), the school can/will contact other schools to get you blacklisted, essentially.

gmreplay
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Re: UGPA/GPA??

Postby gmreplay » Tue Nov 09, 2010 7:59 pm

I don't mean to raise the dead, but this thread really inspired me so I figured I'd report back.

I took my first shot at the LSAT, was feeling quite ill and got a 161. I took it again in October, and got a 170. I'm very pleased to reread vanwinkle's encouragement, particularly given that I've now achieved the score he recommended. My LSAC calculated GPA ended up being a 3.95.

I'm angling for U of M law, which I should have a good shot at.
Here's a list of the places I'm considering applying to (in reverse order of likelihood):
Yale, Stanford, Columbia, Chicago, Berkeley, Penn, Michigan, Virginia, Northwestern, Duke,
Cornell, Georgetown, GWU.

If anyone has any advice or words of encouragement I'd be glad to hear it.

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im_blue
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Re: UGPA/GPA??

Postby im_blue » Tue Nov 09, 2010 8:24 pm

You should get into Michigan, and have a good chance at CCN too. HYS are very difficult with your numbers and weak softs, though.

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maxm2764
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Re: UGPA/GPA??

Postby maxm2764 » Tue Nov 09, 2010 8:26 pm

big_blue79 wrote:
gmreplay wrote:After spending all my time on the LSAT prep board here I was starting to think that I was the lone dummy in a crowd of pretentious and self absorbed geniuses, but I'm very happy to stand corrected.

By the way, what does ED stand for? I haven't picked up that piece of lingo yet and a quick google search doesn't turn up anything.


Bolded is epicly stated.

ED = Early Decision. It helps you get into a school if you're borderline, but it's almost always binding. If you break that contract (if they accept you), the school can/will contact other schools to get you blacklisted, essentially.


+1. Quote of the week goes to big_blue.

randomwalk
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Re: UGPA/GPA??

Postby randomwalk » Tue Nov 09, 2010 8:39 pm

big_blue79 wrote:
gmreplay wrote:After spending all my time on the LSAT prep board here I was starting to think that I was the lone dummy in a crowd of pretentious and self absorbed geniuses, but I'm very happy to stand corrected.

By the way, what does ED stand for? I haven't picked up that piece of lingo yet and a quick google search doesn't turn up anything.


Bolded is epicly stated.

ED = Early Decision. It helps you get into a school if you're borderline, but it's almost always binding. If you break that contract (if they accept you), the school can/will contact other schools to get you blacklisted, essentially.

When you say "borderline", do you mean borderline above the medians, below the medians, or both? I'm thinking of doing ED to Hastings and I am exactly borderline below both LSAT and GPA median. It is stressing me out. My GPA is 3.59 and LSAT is 163. Hasting's medians are 3.60 and 164. :(

Is ED meant to help applicants above the medians only?

gmreplay
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Re: UGPA/GPA??

Postby gmreplay » Tue Nov 09, 2010 8:41 pm

I'm already too late for ED at UM I'm afraid; it ended November 1st or 2nd as I recall. I would have definitely done so otherwise, though.

My softs essentially consist of a student of the year award, poli sci club for 2 years, and working part time at UM for 3/4 college years. Nothing remarkable.

Any recommendations on personal statements for UM?

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im_blue
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Re: UGPA/GPA??

Postby im_blue » Tue Nov 09, 2010 8:43 pm

gmreplay wrote:I'm already too late for ED at UM I'm afraid; it ended November 1st or 2nd as I recall. I would have definitely done so otherwise, though.

With your numbers, I would recommend EDing at your favorite of Columbia, Chicago, or NYU. Their graduates are doing significantly better than Michigan's in the job market.

gmreplay
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Re: UGPA/GPA??

Postby gmreplay » Tue Nov 09, 2010 8:47 pm

im_blue wrote:
gmreplay wrote:I'm already too late for ED at UM I'm afraid; it ended November 1st or 2nd as I recall. I would have definitely done so otherwise, though.

With your numbers, I would recommend EDing at your favorite of Columbia, Chicago, or NYU. Their graduates are doing significantly better than Michigan's in the job market.


Significantly better than UM grads? That's disturbing to hear. What makes you think so?

I'd really like to stick in Michigan for familial and monetary reasons, and frankly I just like the school.

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im_blue
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Re: UGPA/GPA??

Postby im_blue » Tue Nov 09, 2010 8:55 pm

gmreplay wrote:
im_blue wrote:
gmreplay wrote:I'm already too late for ED at UM I'm afraid; it ended November 1st or 2nd as I recall. I would have definitely done so otherwise, though.

With your numbers, I would recommend EDing at your favorite of Columbia, Chicago, or NYU. Their graduates are doing significantly better than Michigan's in the job market.


Significantly better than UM grads? That's disturbing to hear. What makes you think so?

I'd really like to stick in Michigan for familial and monetary reasons, and frankly I just like the school.

Just from students' job search experiences in the Legal Employment forum. If Michigan is your first choice, you can still apply ED now as long as you go complete by Nov. 15.

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im_blue
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Re: UGPA/GPA??

Postby im_blue » Tue Nov 09, 2010 8:56 pm

randomwalk wrote:
big_blue79 wrote:
gmreplay wrote:After spending all my time on the LSAT prep board here I was starting to think that I was the lone dummy in a crowd of pretentious and self absorbed geniuses, but I'm very happy to stand corrected.

By the way, what does ED stand for? I haven't picked up that piece of lingo yet and a quick google search doesn't turn up anything.


Bolded is epicly stated.

ED = Early Decision. It helps you get into a school if you're borderline, but it's almost always binding. If you break that contract (if they accept you), the school can/will contact other schools to get you blacklisted, essentially.

When you say "borderline", do you mean borderline above the medians, below the medians, or both? I'm thinking of doing ED to Hastings and I am exactly borderline below both LSAT and GPA median. It is stressing me out. My GPA is 3.59 and LSAT is 163. Hasting's medians are 3.60 and 164. :(

Is ED meant to help applicants above the medians only?

ED only helps if you meet at least one median. Hastings is out, but you'll probably get into Davis (3.69/163).

gmreplay
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Re: UGPA/GPA??

Postby gmreplay » Tue Nov 09, 2010 9:28 pm

Man you really burst my bubble about Michigan. Do you think I'd have a good chance at getting into CCN? My 170 is at the low end of their scale.

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im_blue
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Re: UGPA/GPA??

Postby im_blue » Tue Nov 09, 2010 9:41 pm

gmreplay wrote:Man you really burst my bubble about Michigan. Do you think I'd have a good chance at getting into CCN? My 170 is at the low end of their scale.

I'd say you're about 50% for Columbia, 60% for Chicago, and 75% for NYU, so yes you have a good chance of getting into at least one.

gmreplay
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Re: UGPA/GPA??

Postby gmreplay » Tue Nov 09, 2010 9:51 pm

im_blue wrote:
gmreplay wrote:Man you really burst my bubble about Michigan. Do you think I'd have a good chance at getting into CCN? My 170 is at the low end of their scale.

I'd say you're about 50% for Columbia, 60% for Chicago, and 75% for NYU, so yes you have a good chance of getting into at least one.


Well that's good to hear! I'm trying to inform myself about Michigan's troubles by reading up on the employment forum, and I see what you're talking about. Do you think the issues are due to location, or some other factor? Also, out of curiosity, where did/do you attend?




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