High paying fields

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GATORTIM
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Re: High paying fields

Postby GATORTIM » Sun Jan 31, 2010 8:02 pm

Borhas wrote:Pharmacist has to be the worst job ever... go to school for 4 years just to count pills at a CVS for the rest of your life

of course it's probably better than going to school for 3 years and ending up with no job


the job you are describing is that of a retail pharmacist; however, there exists several fields of pharmacy (i.e. clinical) that do not fit your definition and involve patient and physician consultation.

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OperaSoprano
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Re: High paying fields

Postby OperaSoprano » Sun Jan 31, 2010 8:24 pm

Renzo wrote:
Borhas wrote:Pharmacist has to be the worst job ever... go to school for 4 years just to count pills at a CVS for the rest of your life

of course it's probably better than going to school for 3 years and ending up with no job

You mean go to school for four years to work 35 hours a week and make $110k a year to do basically the same work the cashier at CVS is doing for $8/hr? Yeah. That sounds terrible. And that's the worst case scenario; you could end up at an in-hospital pharmacy, never having to see a retail patient, and working yet less for even more money.


Retail pharmacists don't all enjoy their jobs. One of my classmates told me about his twelve hour shifts with no breaks for lunch (yes, seriously), no sitting down, and absolutely no sneaking food into his work area. He told me about customers who treat him like dirt, and basically how he could not wait to get behind a desk. He was willing to take a pay cut because working conditions were intolerable.

Renzo
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Re: High paying fields

Postby Renzo » Sun Jan 31, 2010 8:28 pm

OperaSoprano wrote:
Renzo wrote:
Borhas wrote:Pharmacist has to be the worst job ever... go to school for 4 years just to count pills at a CVS for the rest of your life

of course it's probably better than going to school for 3 years and ending up with no job

You mean go to school for four years to work 35 hours a week and make $110k a year to do basically the same work the cashier at CVS is doing for $8/hr? Yeah. That sounds terrible. And that's the worst case scenario; you could end up at an in-hospital pharmacy, never having to see a retail patient, and working yet less for even more money.


Retail pharmacists don't all enjoy their jobs. One of my classmates told me about his twelve hour shifts with no breaks for lunch (yes, seriously), no sitting down, and absolutely no sneaking food into his work area. He told me about customers who treat him like dirt, and basically how he could not wait to get behind a desk. He was willing to take a pay cut because working conditions were intolerable.

But again, how is that any different than the cashier who's making just north of minimum wage? I worked under basically the same conditions (12 hr shifts, no breaks, rude clients) but I made less than half what a retail Pharmacist makes, and thats the worst job in all of pharmacy land.

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Dr. Review
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Re: High paying fields

Postby Dr. Review » Sun Jan 31, 2010 8:37 pm

Certain fields of physical therapy will get you there... or close enough. As a home health/hospice PT, you can start out at 90-100 more or less fresh out of school. Granted, you have to have quite a bit of job shadowing and some very specific UG coursework, you can definitely make $$ right out of school.

And if you know the right people, you could even get a future employer to pay, given a few years of work to pay it back.

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OperaSoprano
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Re: High paying fields

Postby OperaSoprano » Sun Jan 31, 2010 8:41 pm

Renzo wrote:
OperaSoprano wrote:
Renzo wrote:
Borhas wrote:Pharmacist has to be the worst job ever... go to school for 4 years just to count pills at a CVS for the rest of your life

of course it's probably better than going to school for 3 years and ending up with no job

You mean go to school for four years to work 35 hours a week and make $110k a year to do basically the same work the cashier at CVS is doing for $8/hr? Yeah. That sounds terrible. And that's the worst case scenario; you could end up at an in-hospital pharmacy, never having to see a retail patient, and working yet less for even more money.


Retail pharmacists don't all enjoy their jobs. One of my classmates told me about his twelve hour shifts with no breaks for lunch (yes, seriously), no sitting down, and absolutely no sneaking food into his work area. He told me about customers who treat him like dirt, and basically how he could not wait to get behind a desk. He was willing to take a pay cut because working conditions were intolerable.

But again, how is that any different than the cashier who's making just north of minimum wage? I worked under basically the same conditions (12 hr shifts, no breaks, rude clients) but I made less than half what a retail Pharmacist makes, and thats the worst job in all of pharmacy land.


Yeah, but your job was a lot cooler than standing behind a counter in a drugstore. I think my friend's point was that for him, the conditions were not worth the money, and that was a pretty strong statement considering what you've said. I once had a job that required me to be on my feet for eight hours at a time, and I got dizzy quite often, and had to sit down, especially if I hadn't eaten. If I tried to do your former job, I would be exceedingly full of fail.

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Borhas
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Re: High paying fields

Postby Borhas » Sun Jan 31, 2010 8:57 pm

Renzo wrote:
Borhas wrote:Pharmacist has to be the worst job ever... go to school for 4 years just to count pills at a CVS for the rest of your life

of course it's probably better than going to school for 3 years and ending up with no job

You mean go to school for four years to work 35 hours a week and make $110k a year to do basically the same work the cashier at CVS is doing for $8/hr? Yeah. That sounds terrible. And that's the worst case scenario; you could end up at an in-hospital pharmacy, never having to see a retail patient, and working yet less for even more money.


yes that's exactly what I'm saying, at least for me. I'm sure some people wouldn't feel bad about the mindless work, but I would.


GATORTIM wrote:
Borhas wrote:Pharmacist has to be the worst job ever... go to school for 4 years just to count pills at a CVS for the rest of your life

of course it's probably better than going to school for 3 years and ending up with no job


the job you are describing is that of a retail pharmacist; however, there exists several fields of pharmacy (i.e. clinical) that do not fit your definition and involve patient and physician consultation.


most pharmacists are retail pharmacists, I can't imagine it would be all that different in a hospital... might even be worse having all those doctors around and acting condescending towards you

nicdmx
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Re: High paying fields

Postby nicdmx » Sun Jan 31, 2010 9:07 pm

If you go into some fields of engineering (electrical), and get into the right companies/industry, you can make 100k+ pretty quickly, although the spread of income is relatively high and 100k+ is by no means guaranteed. I would also so you also need an MS to really have much hope to reach 100k+ anytime soon. Contracting for the government as an engineer or systems engineer is one way to find the 100k+ job...

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UFMatt
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Re: High paying fields

Postby UFMatt » Sun Jan 31, 2010 9:07 pm

High-end: these jobs pay six figures, but tend to require great talent and an even greater work ethic. I'm talking about physicians, scientific researchers (once they pull in grants), high-end lawyers, and businessmen.

Mid-level: these jobs can crack six figures and tend to be a bit more formulaic than the high-end jobs. I'm talking about engineers, pharmacists, physicians assistants, and specialized nurses (e.g. nurse anaesthetists). Veterinarians could be included in this group, despite the demanding education, solely due to the fact that they're typically underpaid.

Other: for good pay ($60k ish) with shockingly little formal education, it seems hard to beat nursing. If you're willing to work weekends and nights, you can get paid a fortune in overtime. Computer scientists might also be lumped into this category (only bachelors is required and is very portable).

bigben
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Re: High paying fields

Postby bigben » Sun Jan 31, 2010 9:12 pm

Renzo wrote:
Xiaolong wrote:
thesealocust wrote:After bonus, consulting and I-banking either start there or get pretty close. Obviously those fields have their issues in this economy.

Keep in mind that while it is POSSIBLE to obtain 6-figures after graduation from law school, every year there are 4-6 thousand such jobs and 45 thousand or so law school graduates. Most new lawyers make substantially less than six figures (40-50K is probably the mode).


Oh really? How do you know this?

Well, here's the source I quoted you last time you doubted this: http://www.nalp.org/08saldistribution

It is important for anyone considering a legal education to understand that half of all starting lawyer salaries are less than $72,000 and in fact 42% of them are between only $40,000 and $65,000.


Since NALP exists only to aid in the legal hiring process, I'm not sure why you keep ignoring their data.


Remember this is based on a survey where only half of all grads responded with salary data. The other half probably tends to be unemployed, outside law, or toward the lower end of the salary distribution.

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Re: High paying fields

Postby Renzo » Sun Jan 31, 2010 9:15 pm

bigben wrote:
Remember this is only half of all grads. The other half is mostly unemployed, outside law, or toward the lower end of the salary distribution.

Half is probably an exaggeration, but you're right. These are the people who get the "best" jobs (financially) and it excludes the unemployed or those in non-legal fields

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Cupidity
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Re: High paying fields

Postby Cupidity » Sun Jan 31, 2010 9:17 pm

Renzo wrote:
Borhas wrote:Pharmacist has to be the worst job ever... go to school for 4 years just to count pills at a CVS for the rest of your life

of course it's probably better than going to school for 3 years and ending up with no job

You mean go to school for four years to work 35 hours a week and make $110k a year to do basically the same work the cashier at CVS is doing for $8/hr? Yeah. That sounds terrible. And that's the worst case scenario; you could end up at an in-hospital pharmacy, never having to see a retail patient, and working yet less for even more money.


I need a carreer that is intellectually fulfilling and demanding. Your post wreaks of someone with no real life work experience. Put in 40 hours a week doing BS clerical work, or better yet, in the service industry, and then tell me you want a job where you punch a clock and make money. Yeah, its fine in college when you need the $$$ to go out and get trashed, but if I had to do something mind numbing 40 hours a week for the next 30 years, I'd shoot myself now.

nicdmx
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Re: High paying fields

Postby nicdmx » Sun Jan 31, 2010 9:19 pm

UFMatt wrote:High-end: these jobs pay six figures, but tend to require great talent and an even greater work ethic. I'm talking about physicians, scientific researchers (once they pull in grants), high-end lawyers, and businessmen.

Mid-level: these jobs can crack six figures and tend to be a bit more formulaic than the high-end jobs. I'm talking about engineers, pharmacists, physicians assistants, and specialized nurses (e.g. nurse anaesthetists). Veterinarians could be included in this group, despite the demanding education, solely due to the fact that they're typically underpaid.

Other: for good pay ($60k ish) with shockingly little formal education, it seems hard to beat nursing. If you're willing to work weekends and nights, you can get paid a fortune in overtime. Computer scientists might also be lumped into this category (only bachelors is required and is very portable).



Scientific researchers don't generally make 100k+.
Most "businessmen" don't make 100k+

edit: this post also wreaks of somebody with no out of school work experience.

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thesealocust
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Re: High paying fields

Postby thesealocust » Sun Jan 31, 2010 9:23 pm

edit: never mind
Last edited by thesealocust on Wed Jun 30, 2010 11:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

bigben
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Re: High paying fields

Postby bigben » Sun Jan 31, 2010 9:35 pm

Renzo wrote:
bigben wrote:
Remember this is only half of all grads. The other half is mostly unemployed, outside law, or toward the lower end of the salary distribution.

Half is probably an exaggeration, but you're right. These are the people who get the "best" jobs (financially) and it excludes the unemployed or those in non-legal fields


No really, it is only half. The graph is based on 22,300 salaries out of something like 46,000 graduates.

The odd part is that the survey itself has a really high response rate but the salary information only gets a 50% response rate. Of course some of that is because people report that they are unemployed, hence no salary.

So at the absolute peak of biglaw, the chart shows 23% making 160k which probably comes to about 12-14% in reality. Factor in that hiring has scaled back drastically since the bust, and you are probably looking at 6-8% of all law school grads getting biglaw.

Renzo
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Re: High paying fields

Postby Renzo » Sun Jan 31, 2010 9:49 pm

Cupidity wrote:
Renzo wrote:
Borhas wrote:Pharmacist has to be the worst job ever... go to school for 4 years just to count pills at a CVS for the rest of your life

of course it's probably better than going to school for 3 years and ending up with no job

You mean go to school for four years to work 35 hours a week and make $110k a year to do basically the same work the cashier at CVS is doing for $8/hr? Yeah. That sounds terrible. And that's the worst case scenario; you could end up at an in-hospital pharmacy, never having to see a retail patient, and working yet less for even more money.


I need a carreer that is intellectually fulfilling and demanding. Your post wreaks of someone with no real life work experience. Put in 40 hours a week doing BS clerical work, or better yet, in the service industry, and then tell me you want a job where you punch a clock and make money. Yeah, its fine in college when you need the $$$ to go out and get trashed, but if I had to do something mind numbing 40 hours a week for the next 30 years, I'd shoot myself now.

I've been in the workforce full time for about 12 years. I've worked in a service capacity with worse cliental than you can imagine, I've worked on assembly lines, and I've worked in really interesting and fulfilling jobs. It's my real-life and work experience that has led me to appreciate a generous paycheck, and to realize most people hate their jobs while making much, much less than six figures.

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DoctorNick189
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Re: High paying fields

Postby DoctorNick189 » Sun Jan 31, 2010 9:56 pm

btw, pharm school is six years

Renzo
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Re: High paying fields

Postby Renzo » Sun Jan 31, 2010 10:29 pm

DoctorNick189 wrote:btw, pharm school is six years

If you don't have a B.S. you can do it in six most places. If you have a bachelors, it's 4

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GATORTIM
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Re: High paying fields

Postby GATORTIM » Sun Jan 31, 2010 10:49 pm

Borhas wrote:most pharmacists are retail pharmacists, I can't imagine it would be all that different in a hospital... might even be worse having all those doctors around and acting condescending towards you


I have a very close friend that is a clinical pharmacist and loves it. I asked him specifically about the physicians attitudes and he said that a hierarchy certainly exists, but MDs consult him regularly regarding a patients drug regimen. MDs are not nearly as well versed on drug reactions as pharmacists and he regularly has to confront MDs regarding Rx interactions that could prove ineffective or harmful to the patient.

I too would imagine that a hierarchy exists in the legal profession as well (Judge vs. defense counsel, etc.); even TLS is filled with self-rightous/arrogant/pompous posts by 170+ LSATers and/or t-14 prospects directed towards fellow LS candidates with lower numbers that might be attending a TTT....pick your poison.

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Haribo
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Re: High paying fields

Postby Haribo » Sun Jan 31, 2010 11:37 pm

Cupidity wrote:
Renzo wrote:
Borhas wrote:Pharmacist has to be the worst job ever... go to school for 4 years just to count pills at a CVS for the rest of your life

of course it's probably better than going to school for 3 years and ending up with no job

You mean go to school for four years to work 35 hours a week and make $110k a year to do basically the same work the cashier at CVS is doing for $8/hr? Yeah. That sounds terrible. And that's the worst case scenario; you could end up at an in-hospital pharmacy, never having to see a retail patient, and working yet less for even more money.


I need a carreer that is intellectually fulfilling and demanding. Your post wreaks of someone with no real life work experience. Put in 40 hours a week doing BS clerical work, or better yet, in the service industry, and then tell me you want a job where you punch a clock and make money. Yeah, its fine in college when you need the $$$ to go out and get trashed, but if I had to do something mind numbing 40 hours a week for the next 30 years, I'd shoot myself now.


LOL this may be the funniest quote on TLS. You think Renzo sounds like someone with no real life work experience? Your post reeks with the entitlement that gets quickly beaten out of you at any "real" job (not waiting tables for booze money.) News flash - the vast majority of people out there don't go in to work every day because it's intellectually fulfilling and demanding. They work because they GET PAID.

Also I don't want to have any part of you shooting yourself, but this is a law school board. You do realize that the vast majority of legal work that beginning lawyers produce is mind-numbingly boring doc review. At least pharmacists only work 40 hours a week; biglaw associates have to work way more hours.

Anyway, I wouldn't especially want to be a pharmacist, but it's certainly no worse a field than a lawyer (BTW, check out happiness surveys of lawyers vs pharmacists - you may be surprised.)

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Borhas
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Re: High paying fields

Postby Borhas » Mon Feb 01, 2010 12:05 am

GATORTIM wrote:
Borhas wrote:most pharmacists are retail pharmacists, I can't imagine it would be all that different in a hospital... might even be worse having all those doctors around and acting condescending towards you


I have a very close friend that is a clinical pharmacist and loves it. I asked him specifically about the physicians attitudes and he said that a hierarchy certainly exists, but MDs consult him regularly regarding a patients drug regimen. MDs are not nearly as well versed on drug reactions as pharmacists and he regularly has to confront MDs regarding Rx interactions that could prove ineffective or harmful to the patient.

I too would imagine that a hierarchy exists in the legal profession as well (Judge vs. defense counsel, etc.); even TLS is filled with self-rightous/arrogant/pompous posts by 170+ LSATers and/or t-14 prospects directed towards fellow LS candidates with lower numbers that might be attending a TTT....pick your poison.


That does sound much better than the retail gig. I almost went into pharmacy actually, but changed my mind after I got scared off from the prospect of doing the aforementioned retail gig. Whatever floats your boat I say, I don't really want to compare careers that I haven't even had.

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soundgardener
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Re: High paying fields

Postby soundgardener » Mon Feb 01, 2010 1:55 am

One career that never gets mentioned on TLS, but is pretty big in the region I live is petroleum engineering. It is booming right now and most likely will be for the foreseeable future. I have lots of friends and relatives with a four year degree in PE from the state and tech schools around here that are starting at close to six figures and above. From what I understand there is a major shortage right now due to technological advances and retiring baby boomers. I briefly considered it myself but hard math/sciences are anathema to me.

Also I see actuary as a suggestion that is bandied about quite a bit, and I was interested in that for a while until I investigated further. I mean, I guess it would be ideal if math gives you a colossal fucking chubby, but otherwise it sounds like hell. I was drawn to it initially because your salary increases as you pass exams and "level up." Alas, it turns out the exams are hard as shit and require years and years of study. Actuaries start around 50k and don't generally break six figures until six to ten years in, and that's after a four year degree and assuming you dominate the all of the exams tout de suite.

scooter629
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Re: High paying fields

Postby scooter629 » Mon Feb 01, 2010 2:21 am

I find this stuff intriguing because I think a lot of you have no clue what science is really like. Some of my best friends are in pharm school and it blows. After you only] make lower 6 figs if you are a retail pharmacist then you have to work for the crappy company and deal with major bs. I've been told by so many pharmacists that the amount of schooling and work is not proportional to the pay. Pharm school is much harder than med school and you get paid crap. You end up with some major loans too.

The other problem is most people here have forgotten about is that science is hard. You can get a great job in some fields if you have the grades and internships. Pharmaceutical reps make huge money and are right out of college, but there are not many jobs and they are being laid off. Another thing is that some of these things like EE and CS do pay, but they work you like no other. Those fields are not as stable as they used to be because they are outsourcing engineering to other countries and are treating engineers like cattle.

If you really want to know about the "big" money you need to be more specific about what you are willing to do and what are you capable of. I know a lot about the health industry and the high tech because I was originally going to be a surgeon and I also have friends in the high tech fields. PM me if you have any specifics you want to know. If I don't know I can find someone who does or point you in the right direction

lawschooliseasy
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Re: High paying fields

Postby lawschooliseasy » Mon Feb 01, 2010 2:26 am

TipTravHoot wrote:Docs, Vets, Pharms will all get close, as will nurse anesthesoligists (sp-no clue)

Of course, there's always dealing drugs.


As a percentage far more lawyers make six figures than drug dealers. Just sayin'.

Xiaolong
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Re: High paying fields

Postby Xiaolong » Mon Feb 01, 2010 2:50 am

thesealocust wrote:
Xiaolong wrote:
thesealocust wrote:After bonus, consulting and I-banking either start there or get pretty close. Obviously those fields have their issues in this economy.

Keep in mind that while it is POSSIBLE to obtain 6-figures after graduation from law school, every year there are 4-6 thousand such jobs and 45 thousand or so law school graduates. Most new lawyers make substantially less than six figures (40-50K is probably the mode).


Oh really? How do you know this?


Careful and exhaustive research from several sources. Want me to dig it up? Do you doubt some portion of what I said, or are you just curious?


I don't doubt the general thrust of your argument, I just think you present your numbers in a misleading way. One example: You claim that about 45000 law graduates compete for roughly 4000-6000 biglaw jobs every year. On the surface this is obviously the case, but I think this is misleading and needs further explanation, especially in the context of TLS. Most people here on TLS are aiming for T1 schools and most people here do end up at one.

Of the 45000 graduates, how many are actually competitve to land a big law job? In my understanding it's really only the T50 students that can claim to be competing for big law + maybe, on average, the top 5% from T2-T4. The number of law graduates however is incredibly inflated by people that are not competitive in the first place, i.e. 95% of the students that attend T2-T4 schools. If you assume an average of 250 grads per school, the T50 schools graduate about 12500 JDs every year. Then add to that the top 5% on average of the remaining schools ( i.e. 5% of 32500 graduates), thats roughly another 1600 people. So all in all you really have around 14000 grads that are actually standing a chance at landing one of roughly 4000-6000 biglaw jobs, not 45000.

Also bear in mind the number of people out of those 14000 competitve graduates that self-select into PI, governemnt, academia or market paying non-NLJ250 firms. I really have no grasp on how large that group is. In the end however you might end up with a number of anywhere between 10000-14000 grads that compete for 4000-6000 NLJ250 jobs every year.

Now, I am adding the caveat that my argument applies to someone attending a T50 or thereabouts. For someone considering Cooley, your argument is much more on point.

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Dr. Review
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Re: High paying fields

Postby Dr. Review » Mon Feb 01, 2010 2:55 am

There is, however, one hole in your logic. There are people out there who are looking for a big law job who aren't fresh out of school.




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