Columbia-->Harvard/Yale Transfer

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amadeus.vc
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Columbia-->Harvard/Yale Transfer

Postby amadeus.vc » Wed Jan 27, 2010 8:51 pm

Just got into Columbia this week, wonderful news indeed, but with my numbers (3.69, 172) I am most likely rejected at Harvard and Yale. Even before I applied to Law Schools, my parents made me a deal. They said they will pay for my tuition if and only if I went to HLS or YLS...and this sounded too good an opportunity to pass up on.

I've studied the transfer threads long and hard, if I do manage to be ranked in the top 10-20% of my class at Columbia (and that's a BIG if, of course), what kind of reasoning would I have to employ in order for admission officers at HLS and YLS to look favorably upon my transfer application, and maximize my success rate?

my gratefulness for your assistance.

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vanwinkle
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Re: Columbia-->Harvard/Yale Transfer

Postby vanwinkle » Wed Jan 27, 2010 9:06 pm

Honestly, the one thing you need to convince H or Y to take you is to get the highest 1L GPA possible. Everything I have read indicates that 1L GPA is 95% of your transfer app if not more. As a 1L I can tell you that planning to finish at the top of your class at any school is foolish, and it's especially foolish at a place like CLS, which is full of some of the best and brightest minds in the country.

That said, you should see if your parents will help you out with CLS. It's a great and prestigious school, it's Ivy League, it's only ranked a couple spots behind Y and H in the USNWR, #4 out of 200 schools... Or, you could just say heck with it, and stay at CLS for 3 years, and pay the loans off when you graduate.

heyguys
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Re: Columbia-->Harvard/Yale Transfer

Postby heyguys » Wed Jan 27, 2010 9:20 pm

First, try to talk to your folks about why Columbia is comparable to HLS and YLS.

As far as transfers go, honestly, this may sound crazy, but here's my advice: if this is seriously your position and your folks won't budge on CLS v. HLS/YLS, I would take a year or two off and retake the LSAT. Go do something like teach english in china or something, and crack the 175 barrier. I normally wouldn't recommend that, but in your case there's enough at stake that I think it would be worth it. Honestly, CLS at sticker nowadays is a dicey investment.

Moreover, the thought of someone's folks paying for their LS education (and there are many who qualify as this) makes my eyes water for envy, haha.

So yeah, I would personally recommend retaking the LSAT and trying again in the future. The transfer process is just a total crapshoot insofar as you have NO idea where you'll end up in CLS's class. Not worth the risk, imo.

heyguys
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Re: Columbia-->Harvard/Yale Transfer

Postby heyguys » Wed Jan 27, 2010 9:21 pm

PS: this is probably easily the most interesting admissions thread situation I've ever seen, assuming you're not a flame, which I don't think you are.

4910
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Re: Columbia-->Harvard/Yale Transfer

Postby 4910 » Wed Jan 27, 2010 9:25 pm

Thanks for making this thread, believe it or not, this is the same predicament I am facing. I am planning on taking out loans though if I get dinged.

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vanwinkle
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Re: Columbia-->Harvard/Yale Transfer

Postby vanwinkle » Wed Jan 27, 2010 9:26 pm

4910 wrote:Thanks for making this thread, believe it or not, this is the same predicament I am facing. I am planning on taking out loans though if I get dinged.

Who are you people?!

holborn
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Re: Columbia-->Harvard/Yale Transfer

Postby holborn » Wed Jan 27, 2010 9:30 pm

heyguys wrote:First, try to talk to your folks about why Columbia is comparable to HLS and YLS.

As far as transfers go, honestly, this may sound crazy, but here's my advice: if this is seriously your position and your folks won't budge on CLS v. HLS/YLS, I would take a year or two off and retake the LSAT. Go do something like teach english in china or something, and crack the 175 barrier. I normally wouldn't recommend that, but in your case there's enough at stake that I think it would be worth it. Honestly, CLS at sticker nowadays is a dicey investment.

Moreover, the thought of someone's folks paying for their LS education (and there are many who qualify as this) makes my eyes water for envy, haha.

So yeah, I would personally recommend retaking the LSAT and trying again in the future. The transfer process is just a total crapshoot insofar as you have NO idea where you'll end up in CLS's class. Not worth the risk, imo.


okay seriously? like, i get that the economy is shit right now. I get that paying a ton of money for a school that probably wont get you a high salary job is not the best idea. But based on your statement, there are only 3 schools in the entire effing country that would be worth assuming debt for. this, imo, is completely absurd. especially considering columbia places a ridiculous number of its graduates in biglaw. If you finish in the bottom 15% yeah, youre probably fucked. But youre also probably fucked if you do that at harvard or stanford.

Sorry for the rant i'm just so tired of people saying "unless you can finish first in your class at yale, its not worth the debt! youll never get a job, ever, and youll die alone".

pattymac
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Re: Columbia-->Harvard/Yale Transfer

Postby pattymac » Wed Jan 27, 2010 9:31 pm

heyguys wrote:PS: this is probably easily the most interesting admissions thread situation I've ever seen, assuming you're not a flame, which I don't think you are.


thought about it too but decided against it. OP's parents are probably very wealthy, appeal to Y and H by prestige and don't follow the rankings nearly as close as TLS does :P.

Tell them to watch Brooklynn Rules, they'll get over Y/H and fall in love with CLS :D

MTC87
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Re: Columbia-->Harvard/Yale Transfer

Postby MTC87 » Wed Jan 27, 2010 9:33 pm

heyguys wrote: The transfer process is just a total crapshoot insofar as you have NO idea where you'll end up in CLS's class. Not worth the risk, imo.


+1

imo you have better odds just offing the folks and cashing in with your inheritance. in fact, screw law school, this should be your plan A

toaster2
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Re: Columbia-->Harvard/Yale Transfer

Postby toaster2 » Wed Jan 27, 2010 9:35 pm

.
Last edited by toaster2 on Wed Jan 27, 2010 10:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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BruceBarr
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Re: Columbia-->Harvard/Yale Transfer

Postby BruceBarr » Wed Jan 27, 2010 9:42 pm

toaster2 wrote:
amadeus.vc wrote:my parents made me a deal. They said they will pay for my tuition if and only if I went to HLS or YLS
you should explain this...i find it highly improbable.


Shut up. Nobody cares what you think. OP, explain nothing.

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dutchstriker
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Re: Columbia-->Harvard/Yale Transfer

Postby dutchstriker » Wed Jan 27, 2010 9:51 pm

amadeus.vc wrote:Just got into Columbia this week, wonderful news indeed, but with my numbers (3.69, 172) I am most likely rejected at Harvard and Yale. Even before I applied to Law Schools, my parents made me a deal. They said they will pay for my tuition if and only if I went to HLS or YLS...and this sounded too good an opportunity to pass up on.

I've studied the transfer threads long and hard, if I do manage to be ranked in the top 10-20% of my class at Columbia (and that's a BIG if, of course), what kind of reasoning would I have to employ in order for admission officers at HLS and YLS to look favorably upon my transfer application, and maximize my success rate?

my gratefulness for your assistance.

I'll switch parents with you. That way I can have H for free and you can go to Columbia knowing that your parents wouldn't pay for H or Y anyway.

heyguys
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Re: Columbia-->Harvard/Yale Transfer

Postby heyguys » Wed Jan 27, 2010 10:02 pm

julesm2200 wrote:
okay seriously? like, i get that the economy is shit right now. I get that paying a ton of money for a school that probably wont get you a high salary job is not the best idea. But based on your statement, there are only 3 schools in the entire effing country that would be worth assuming debt for. this, imo, is completely absurd. especially considering columbia places a ridiculous number of its graduates in biglaw. If you finish in the bottom 15% yeah, youre probably fucked. But youre also probably fucked if you do that at harvard or stanford.

Sorry for the rant i'm just so tired of people saying "unless you can finish first in your class at yale, its not worth the debt! youll never get a job, ever, and youll die alone".



Are you a 1L? 0L?

Paying a ton of money for a legal education is not a good idea period. The only reason it makes sense at HYS is because they don't have a hierarchy meaningful enough to pose any real risk to their applicants. I mean, you'll see some HLS folks on here pretending like they face real pressure for their grades and whatever, but they aren't facing any real dangers. When HLS students freak out about their grades, they're freaking out about 'Oh noez, what CoA positions will be open for me,' not 'my god, I am never going to be able to shovel myself out of this debt load.'

Moreover, there is no bottom 15% at Harvard or Stanford, as they don't rank their students and don't have meaningful grades. CCN, on the other hand, do.

I'm assuming you're a 0L. When you get to law school, you'll come to realize that-- guess what? 15% of the class ends up at the bottom 15%. And I'm sorry to break this to you, but there's not some "dumbass brigade" that comes to CLS every year to make up the bottom 15% of their students. Everyone there is smart, everyone there works hard.

And really, as far as managing the debt goes, you're probably in trouble if you're below median. Is that a risk you want to take? What makes you think that you're so great? Your LSAT score? Your work ethic? It's extremely difficult to nearly impossible to reliably project where in the class you'll end up at a school like Columbia. Not worth the risk ITE, imo.

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underachiever
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Re: Columbia-->Harvard/Yale Transfer

Postby underachiever » Wed Jan 27, 2010 10:03 pm

If you look at the stats, no one form Columbia left after being a 1L there last year (lsac attrition stats posted somewhere). I would say top 1/3 at Columbia would give u a good shot at H as a transfer. For Y it would be like top 20/15%. Good luck, and either way 90% of the people on this fourm would love to be in your situation, of paying for the #4 and then maybe getting the #1 or #2 school for free.

holborn
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Re: Columbia-->Harvard/Yale Transfer

Postby holborn » Wed Jan 27, 2010 10:07 pm

heyguys wrote:
julesm2200 wrote:
okay seriously? like, i get that the economy is shit right now. I get that paying a ton of money for a school that probably wont get you a high salary job is not the best idea. But based on your statement, there are only 3 schools in the entire effing country that would be worth assuming debt for. this, imo, is completely absurd. especially considering columbia places a ridiculous number of its graduates in biglaw. If you finish in the bottom 15% yeah, youre probably fucked. But youre also probably fucked if you do that at harvard or stanford.

Sorry for the rant i'm just so tired of people saying "unless you can finish first in your class at yale, its not worth the debt! youll never get a job, ever, and youll die alone".



Are you a 1L? 0L?

Paying a ton of money for a legal education is not a good idea period. The only reason it makes sense at HYS is because they don't have a hierarchy meaningful enough to pose any real risk to their applicants. I mean, you'll see some HLS folks on here pretending like they face real pressure for their grades and whatever, but they aren't facing any real dangers. When HLS students freak out about their grades, they're freaking out about 'Oh noez, what CoA positions will be open for me,' not 'my god, I am never going to be able to shovel myself out of this debt load.'

Moreover, there is no bottom 15% at Harvard or Stanford, as they don't rank their students and don't have meaningful grades. CCN, on the other hand, do.

I'm assuming you're a 0L. When you get to law school, you'll come to realize that-- guess what? 15% of the class ends up at the bottom 15%. And I'm sorry to break this to you, but there's not some "dumbass brigade" that comes to CLS every year to make up the bottom 15% of their students. Everyone there is smart, everyone there works hard.

And really, as far as managing the debt goes, you're probably in trouble if you're below median. Is that a risk you want to take? What makes you think that you're so great? Your LSAT score? Your work ethic? It's extremely difficult to nearly impossible to reliably project where in the class you'll end up at a school like Columbia. Not worth the risk ITE, imo.


I understand people end up in the bottom 15%. probably 15% of them. And I know you cant predict if you end up there. (and please, point out where I actually said you can count on being above median. Oh thats right, I didn't.) What I take issue with is the mentality that if you have to pay for law school its not worth it. And I am completely on board with you when it comes to anything below say top 25 or top 30. But to say that Columbia, the #4 school in the county, isnt worth paying for, is (in my opinion) too harsh.

edit: I realize my rant came off as harsh. and you probably took away from it things that i wasnt intending. However, the fact remains that I believe paying for a very very good legal education (t14 if you will) is worth it. and that doesnt make me stupid. that just means i dont agree with you.

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tomhobbes
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Re: Columbia-->Harvard/Yale Transfer

Postby tomhobbes » Wed Jan 27, 2010 10:15 pm

So, OPs parents are Asian? Would they consider paying for Berkeley?

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CoaltoNewCastle
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Re: Columbia-->Harvard/Yale Transfer

Postby CoaltoNewCastle » Wed Jan 27, 2010 11:34 pm

heyguys wrote:As far as transfers go, honestly, this may sound crazy, but here's my advice: if this is seriously your position and your folks won't budge on CLS v. HLS/YLS, I would take a year or two off and retake the LSAT. Go do something like teach english in china or something, and crack the 175 barrier. I normally wouldn't recommend that, but in your case there's enough at stake that I think it would be worth it. Honestly, CLS at sticker nowadays is a dicey investment.


A 175 still makes Harvard an almost unattainable reach for him without something like the Peace Corps on his resume. Even a 178+ only gives him a respectable shot at Harvard. I have a 179 and a 3.77 and I'm not far from the GPA floor where they start rejecting a large portion of 178+ LSAT takers. And despite everyone telling me "Have fun at Harvard, dude!" I may not get in.
Last edited by CoaltoNewCastle on Sun Feb 07, 2010 1:02 am, edited 1 time in total.

SandyC877
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Re: Columbia-->Harvard/Yale Transfer

Postby SandyC877 » Wed Jan 27, 2010 11:38 pm

fuck this ridiculous post. I'll take finishing at the bottom of HLS over TT or TTT any day.

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Zapatero
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Re: Columbia-->Harvard/Yale Transfer

Postby Zapatero » Wed Jan 27, 2010 11:42 pm

CoaltoNewCastle wrote:
heyguys wrote:As far as transfers go, honestly, this may sound crazy, but here's my advice: if this is seriously your position and your folks won't budge on CLS v. HLS/YLS, I would take a year or two off and retake the LSAT. Go do something like teach english in china or something, and crack the 175 barrier. I normally wouldn't recommend that, but in your case there's enough at stake that I think it would be worth it. Honestly, CLS at sticker nowadays is a dicey investment.


A 175 still makes Harvard an almost unattainable reach for him without something like the Peace Corps on his resume. Even a 178+ only gives him a respectable shot at Harvard. I have a 179 and a 3.77 and I'm not far from the GPA floor where they start rejecting a large portion of 178+ LSAT takers. And I despite everyone telling me "Have fun at Harvard, dude!" I may not get in.


Seriously though, enjoy Harvard.

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tinman
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Re: Columbia-->Harvard/Yale Transfer

Postby tinman » Thu Jan 28, 2010 12:09 am

ccs1702 wrote:
CoaltoNewCastle wrote:
heyguys wrote:As far as transfers go, honestly, this may sound crazy, but here's my advice: if this is seriously your position and your folks won't budge on CLS v. HLS/YLS, I would take a year or two off and retake the LSAT. Go do something like teach english in china or something, and crack the 175 barrier. I normally wouldn't recommend that, but in your case there's enough at stake that I think it would be worth it. Honestly, CLS at sticker nowadays is a dicey investment.


A 175 still makes Harvard an almost unattainable reach for him without something like the Peace Corps on his resume. Even a 178+ only gives him a respectable shot at Harvard. I have a 179 and a 3.77 and I'm not far from the GPA floor where they start rejecting a large portion of 178+ LSAT takers. And I despite everyone telling me "Have fun at Harvard, dude!" I may not get in.


Seriously though, enjoy Harvard.


I actually laughed out loud from this last comment. Bravo.

anli
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Re: Columbia-->Harvard/Yale Transfer

Postby anli » Sat Feb 06, 2010 5:33 pm

Although the financials are important, I would strongly advise going to Columbia only if you would be happy there. I am at CCN and (if next semester is not a disaster, fingers crossed) in a strong position position to transfer and am 50-50 on whether or not to do it. Remember that if you are in a position to transfer you also will have very strong incentives to stay; and also remember that if you don't like where you are, you probably won't do well. Every one of my friends who has done well has actually enjoyed law school; i mean, you live and breathe this stuff.

In a nutshell, don't go in anticipating to transfer -- not just because 1) you might not get the chance, but also because 2) you'll have a hard time doing well if you don't like your school and 3) if you like your school and do well, you might not want to transfer.
Last edited by anli on Fri Feb 19, 2010 5:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Robert398
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Re: Columbia-->Harvard/Yale Transfer

Postby Robert398 » Sat Feb 06, 2010 9:13 pm

heyguys wrote:First, try to talk to your folks about why Columbia is comparable to HLS and YLS.

As far as transfers go, honestly, this may sound crazy, but here's my advice: if this is seriously your position and your folks won't budge on CLS v. HLS/YLS, I would take a year or two off and retake the LSAT. Go do something like teach english in china or something, and crack the 175 barrier. I normally wouldn't recommend that, but in your case there's enough at stake that I think it would be worth it. Honestly, CLS at sticker nowadays is a dicey investment.

Moreover, the thought of someone's folks paying for their LS education (and there are many who qualify as this) makes my eyes water for envy, haha.

So yeah, I would personally recommend retaking the LSAT and trying again in the future. The transfer process is just a total crapshoot insofar as you have NO idea where you'll end up in CLS's class. Not worth the risk, imo.


Yes, except even a 180 combined with a 3.69 (172) isn't an autoadmit at either school

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jayn3
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Re: Columbia-->Harvard/Yale Transfer

Postby jayn3 » Sat Feb 06, 2010 9:19 pm

vanwinkle wrote:
4910 wrote:Thanks for making this thread, believe it or not, this is the same predicament I am facing. I am planning on taking out loans though if I get dinged.

Who are you people?!


who are their parents?????

i mean, seriously.....two spots in the rankings is not a $150k difference. maybe OP can talk reason with parents via specific interests/career goals? or the fact that new haven is a ghetto? or the fact that getting the necessary grades for a transfer to harvard or yale would be be a lot more likely if they start out at a much worse school than columbia?

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booboo
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Re: Columbia-->Harvard/Yale Transfer

Postby booboo » Sat Feb 06, 2010 9:24 pm

tomhobbes wrote:So, OPs parents are Asian? Would they consider paying for Berkeley?


Maybe they are Americanized. If they were truly Asian, law school would be Yale or bust.

(Nice catch though, :P.)

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Sogui
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Re: Columbia-->Harvard/Yale Transfer

Postby Sogui » Sat Feb 06, 2010 10:37 pm

heyguys wrote:
julesm2200 wrote:
okay seriously? like, i get that the economy is shit right now. I get that paying a ton of money for a school that probably wont get you a high salary job is not the best idea. But based on your statement, there are only 3 schools in the entire effing country that would be worth assuming debt for. this, imo, is completely absurd. especially considering columbia places a ridiculous number of its graduates in biglaw. If you finish in the bottom 15% yeah, youre probably fucked. But youre also probably fucked if you do that at harvard or stanford.

Sorry for the rant i'm just so tired of people saying "unless you can finish first in your class at yale, its not worth the debt! youll never get a job, ever, and youll die alone".



Are you a 1L? 0L?

Paying a ton of money for a legal education is not a good idea period. The only reason it makes sense at HYS is because they don't have a hierarchy meaningful enough to pose any real risk to their applicants. I mean, you'll see some HLS folks on here pretending like they face real pressure for their grades and whatever, but they aren't facing any real dangers. When HLS students freak out about their grades, they're freaking out about 'Oh noez, what CoA positions will be open for me,' not 'my god, I am never going to be able to shovel myself out of this debt load.'

Moreover, there is no bottom 15% at Harvard or Stanford, as they don't rank their students and don't have meaningful grades. CCN, on the other hand, do.

I'm assuming you're a 0L. When you get to law school, you'll come to realize that-- guess what? 15% of the class ends up at the bottom 15%. And I'm sorry to break this to you, but there's not some "dumbass brigade" that comes to CLS every year to make up the bottom 15% of their students. Everyone there is smart, everyone there works hard.

And really, as far as managing the debt goes, you're probably in trouble if you're below median. Is that a risk you want to take? What makes you think that you're so great? Your LSAT score? Your work ethic? It's extremely difficult to nearly impossible to reliably project where in the class you'll end up at a school like Columbia. Not worth the risk ITE, imo.


Hey I'm a registered member of the CLS Dumbass Brigade, why don't we ever get the recognition we deserve? Every year hundreds of dumbasses shell out the big money for CLS for the sole purpose of fucking up so that their peers can look relatively competent. It's a huge sacrifice and a thankless job and I resent you for not recognizing the sacrifices that me and my fellow dumbasses are making.


Seriously though, CLS is worth sticker. There may not be a dumbass brigade but there are people who simply aren't as talented or driven. If you feel that you have the dedication and willpower to succeed at Columbia I would never suggest turning them down. Of course the credited response is "convince your dumbass parents that only a heartless person would force their kid to attend H/Y or pay full price".




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