Non degree CC grades count toward LSDAS GPA?

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BizOwner
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Non degree CC grades count toward LSDAS GPA?

Postby BizOwner » Wed Jan 27, 2010 8:30 am

First let me say I am not applying to law school until Fall '10 so I haven't sent all my info to LSAC and do not know how they will calculate gpa. However, I am interested to know where I stand as far as LSDAS GPA go. I have read conflicting reports.

One report says all undergrade grades grades count prior to graduation.

Another report says only credits toward your degree count
.

My dilemma:
Went to CC for a couple of years (10-12 years ago) and took several classes towards a completely different degree which I never finished.
I took several years off of school and just started back full time 3 years ago at a University. I will graduate in the fall of this year.

My degree granting university gpa is 3.75. However my LSDAS gpa (including all CC credits from 10-12 years ago) is 2.93.

I'm hoping only degree granting credits count, but I'm afraid my application will be haunted from a couple of immature years at CC.

Any help clarifying LSDAS GPA will be appreciated as well as any thoughts on application strategy. GPA addendum?

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Unitas
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Re: Non degree CC grades count toward LSDAS GPA?

Postby Unitas » Wed Jan 27, 2010 8:47 am

All grades prior to your first bachelors degree will count. Including classes you retook.

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englawyer
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Re: Non degree CC grades count toward LSDAS GPA?

Postby englawyer » Wed Jan 27, 2010 8:59 am

Unfortunately, your CC courses will count. a GPA addendum will be necessary.

BizOwner
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Re: Non degree CC grades count toward LSDAS GPA?

Postby BizOwner » Wed Jan 27, 2010 9:00 am

Thats what I was afraid of. Interesting that they use the phrase "credits toward degree" in some reports. I believe this is misleading. Apparently they mean "credits prior to first degree".

Do you think a gpa addendum will help point out the born again student I have been for the past 3 years? Will adcomms give more weight to the more recent trends than those of 10-12 years ago?

BizOwner
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Re: Non degree CC grades count toward LSDAS GPA?

Postby BizOwner » Wed Jan 27, 2010 9:03 am

For what its worth, I was establishing a small business when I was in CC and was partly responsible for the bad grades. The business has been successful for the past 12 years. Is this worthy of including in gpa addendum?

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englawyer
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Re: Non degree CC grades count toward LSDAS GPA?

Postby englawyer » Wed Jan 27, 2010 9:09 am

Sure; anything worthwhile that will explain it is a good idea. That is a pretty good soft btw! Have you taken the LSAT yet?

BizOwner
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Re: Non degree CC grades count toward LSDAS GPA?

Postby BizOwner » Wed Jan 27, 2010 9:10 am

No, but practicing in mid-high 160s.

Working hard on it and taking it in June.

Should small business experience be in gpa addendum or personal statement? Both seems a little much and narrowly focused. Agree?

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englawyer
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Re: Non degree CC grades count toward LSDAS GPA?

Postby englawyer » Wed Jan 27, 2010 9:13 am

good luck! if you manage to score in the low 170's, make sure you apply to Northwestern. They value work experience highly and are less biased against a low GPA if you have been working for a while.

BizOwner
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Re: Non degree CC grades count toward LSDAS GPA?

Postby BizOwner » Wed Jan 27, 2010 9:51 am

Would it make sense to go to CC this summer and take a couple of classes (easy As) and try to bring my LSDAS gpa up to 3.0 prior to applying?

09042014
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Re: Non degree CC grades count toward LSDAS GPA?

Postby 09042014 » Wed Jan 27, 2010 9:51 am

BizOwner wrote:Would it make sense to go to CC this summer and take a couple of classes (easy As) and try to bring my LSDAS gpa up to 3.0 prior to graduation?


Yes, but I'd aim to get it to 3.1 or 3.2.

BizOwner
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Re: Non degree CC grades count toward LSDAS GPA?

Postby BizOwner » Wed Jan 27, 2010 9:53 am

I agree but its not moving very quickly with 160+ credits

09042014
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Re: Non degree CC grades count toward LSDAS GPA?

Postby 09042014 » Wed Jan 27, 2010 9:56 am

BizOwner wrote:I agree but its not moving very quickly with 160+ credits


Yea that's going to be a problem. Try to find classes that give out A+'s.

But don't forget that the LSAT is much more important. But a 3.0 is pretty much the bare minimum for breaking the T14, and even many T1's will reject someone under 3.0.

If you can get a 172, I'm sure northwestern would love to have you, because of your work experience. In fact if I were in your shoes, I'd apply to their AJD, which only takes two years to complete.

BizOwner
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Re: Non degree CC grades count toward LSDAS GPA?

Postby BizOwner » Wed Jan 27, 2010 10:19 am

Interesting point. I haven't really looked at Northwestern yet.

I was hoping to stay in the DC area. GW, George Mason, Georgetown, American are all on the list.

09042014
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Re: Non degree CC grades count toward LSDAS GPA?

Postby 09042014 » Wed Jan 27, 2010 10:27 am

BizOwner wrote:Interesting point. I haven't really looked at Northwestern yet.

I was hoping to stay in the DC area. GW, George Mason, Georgetown, American are all on the list.


With your current GPA and 170+, you have a shot at GTown part time. With an above 3 and over 170, you start having a shot at full time as well.

BizOwner
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Re: Non degree CC grades count toward LSDAS GPA?

Postby BizOwner » Wed Jan 27, 2010 10:39 am

I just ran the theoretical numbers with a LSDAS gpa calculator.

I can have a 3.0 LSDAS gpa by Christmas with 12 credits in the summer and remaining 12 credits (needed from grad. institution) in fall. Assuming all A's.

That puts me at 179 credits total. After that my gpa moves .01 with every 3 credit A. It would take me a year full time to move that up to a 3.1 or so. I don't think I have the energy or desire to do that. Probably not worth the effort.

Im not aware of any schools in this area with A+ grading scale.

In my mind a 3.0 looks 10x better than a 2.93.

09042014
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Re: Non degree CC grades count toward LSDAS GPA?

Postby 09042014 » Wed Jan 27, 2010 10:48 am

BizOwner wrote:I just ran the theoretical numbers with a LSDAS gpa calculator.

I can have a 3.0 LSDAS gpa by Christmas with 12 credits in the summer and remaining 12 credits (needed from grad. institution) in fall. Assuming all A's.

That puts me at 179 credits total. After that my gpa moves .01 with every 3 credit A. It would take me a year full time to move that up to a 3.1 or so. I don't think I have the energy or desire to do that. Probably not worth the effort.

Im not aware of any schools in this area with A+ grading scale.

In my mind a 3.0 looks 10x better than a 2.93.


Not quire ten, but at least two.

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im_blue
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Re: Non degree CC grades count toward LSDAS GPA?

Postby im_blue » Wed Jan 27, 2010 4:17 pm

BizOwner wrote:I just ran the theoretical numbers with a LSDAS gpa calculator.

I can have a 3.0 LSDAS gpa by Christmas with 12 credits in the summer and remaining 12 credits (needed from grad. institution) in fall. Assuming all A's.

That puts me at 179 credits total. After that my gpa moves .01 with every 3 credit A. It would take me a year full time to move that up to a 3.1 or so. I don't think I have the energy or desire to do that. Probably not worth the effort.

Im not aware of any schools in this area with A+ grading scale.

In my mind a 3.0 looks 10x better than a 2.93.


Look into online CC classes that give A+. You wouldn't need very many to get a 3.0 LSDAS GPA (maybe 9-10 credits).

I would double-check your math. Requiring 24 A's to go from 2.93 to 3.0 would mean you have like 300 credits?

BizOwner
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Re: Non degree CC grades count toward LSDAS GPA?

Postby BizOwner » Wed Jan 27, 2010 10:24 pm

im_blue wrote:
BizOwner wrote:I just ran the theoretical numbers with a LSDAS gpa calculator.

I can have a 3.0 LSDAS gpa by Christmas with 12 credits in the summer and remaining 12 credits (needed from grad. institution) in fall. Assuming all A's.

That puts me at 179 credits total. After that my gpa moves .01 with every 3 credit A. It would take me a year full time to move that up to a 3.1 or so. I don't think I have the energy or desire to do that. Probably not worth the effort.

Im not aware of any schools in this area with A+ grading scale.

In my mind a 3.0 looks 10x better than a 2.93.


Look into online CC classes that give A+. You wouldn't need very many to get a 3.0 LSDAS GPA (maybe 9-10 credits).

I would double-check your math. Requiring 24 A's to go from 2.93 to 3.0 would mean you have like 300 credits?



According to lsdas gpa calculator I would need 24 credit hours to move a 2.93 to 3.0. Not 24 A's. This would be assuming a starting point of 155 credit hours.

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im_blue
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Re: Non degree CC grades count toward LSDAS GPA?

Postby im_blue » Wed Jan 27, 2010 10:48 pm

BizOwner wrote:
im_blue wrote:
BizOwner wrote:I just ran the theoretical numbers with a LSDAS gpa calculator.

I can have a 3.0 LSDAS gpa by Christmas with 12 credits in the summer and remaining 12 credits (needed from grad. institution) in fall. Assuming all A's.

That puts me at 179 credits total. After that my gpa moves .01 with every 3 credit A. It would take me a year full time to move that up to a 3.1 or so. I don't think I have the energy or desire to do that. Probably not worth the effort.

Im not aware of any schools in this area with A+ grading scale.

In my mind a 3.0 looks 10x better than a 2.93.


Look into online CC classes that give A+. You wouldn't need very many to get a 3.0 LSDAS GPA (maybe 9-10 credits).

I would double-check your math. Requiring 24 A's to go from 2.93 to 3.0 would mean you have like 300 credits?



According to lsdas gpa calculator I would need 24 credit hours to move a 2.93 to 3.0. Not 24 A's. This would be assuming a starting point of 155 credit hours.


(155*2.93 + 4x) / (155 + x) = 3.0
155*2.93 + 4x = 3x + 3*155
x = 155*(3-2.93) = 155*0.07 = 11 credit hours of A to get a 3.0

Taking 24 credit hours of A would give you:
(155*2.93+24*4)/179 = 3.07

BizOwner
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Re: Non degree CC grades count toward LSDAS GPA?

Postby BizOwner » Thu Jan 28, 2010 12:40 pm

Damn, I hope your right. That would be the first good news concerning my gpa yet. Relatively speaking.

Your numbers are correct calculated however it doesn't calculate the same with lsdas gpa calculator
http://www.lawschoolpredictor.com/wp-co ... ulator.htm

Current Totals (semester hours)
A-72
B- 51
C- 17
D- 6
F- 19

=2.92 lsdas gpa

Proposed Totals (semester hours)
A-83 (11 more than previous)
B-51
C-17
D-6
F-19

=2.98 lsdas gpa

Am I doing something wrong here?

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im_blue
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Re: Non degree CC grades count toward LSDAS GPA?

Postby im_blue » Thu Jan 28, 2010 5:37 pm

You're starting with 165 credit hours and a 3.9152 (not 155 credit hours and a 2.93). That would change the last line of my calculation to:
165*(3-2.9152) = 165*0.0848 = 14 credit hours

So if you enter the following, you should get 3.00:
A-86
B-51
C-17
D-6
F-19




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