Please don't withdraw your applications from Tier-1 Schools

(Applications Advice, Letters of Recommendation . . . )
SandyC877
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Re: Please don't withdraw your applications from Tier-1 Schools

Postby SandyC877 » Tue Jan 26, 2010 6:15 am

rookhawk wrote:Thank you all for concluding my test. (I won a dollar for this)

I wagered someone that the average law school applicant would be more offended by someone entering with powerful soft skills than they would if someone with more equivocal grades got into a program.

The argument was that people are threatened by those that are different...that their grades being inferior gets them into the same peer group may reflect that there is more to success than grades and that perhaps the original applicant's emphasis on their stats is somehow marginalized. (similar to the proveable bias on TLS against URMs getting into programs with different stats)

Any socialogists wish to chime in on this gentleman's wager at TLS poster's expense?


1) You didn't win a dollar
2) We're not offended by the "softies." We're annoyed at your terrible reasoning.
3) We're the fucking idiots for letting this thread continue.

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TTH
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Re: Please don't withdraw your applications from Tier-1 Schools

Postby TTH » Tue Jan 26, 2010 11:03 am

biv0ns wrote:
rookhawk wrote:That would be what LSAT would call "source argument" flaw in reasoning:

"drawing a conclusion about the merit of a position and the content of a position based solely upon the character of the person espousing the opinion"


you're still a douchebag


At first, I was tempted just to quote this and leave it, thus reflecting my agreement with biv0ns that OP is a douchebag. Upon further reflection, that course of action just isn't going to provide the catharsis I need for opening this thread.

OP is a fucking loser.

Okay, I feel a little better.

njskatchmo
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Re: Please don't withdraw your applications from Tier-1 Schools

Postby njskatchmo » Tue Jan 26, 2010 1:42 pm

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Last edited by njskatchmo on Fri Feb 05, 2010 12:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Yimbeezy
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Re: Please don't withdraw your applications from Tier-1 Schools

Postby Yimbeezy » Tue Jan 26, 2010 1:44 pm

vanwinkle wrote:
newyorker88 wrote:Are you serious with this foolishness or just bored tonight?

He rambled about this theory in another thread earlier tonight. I think he's stupid enough to actually think this would accomplish something.


He did also call himself John Galt.

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happy187
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Re: Please don't withdraw your applications from Tier-1 Schools

Postby happy187 » Tue Jan 26, 2010 1:47 pm

biv0ns wrote:you're still a douchebag


co-signed

4910
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Re: Please don't withdraw your applications from Tier-1 Schools

Postby 4910 » Tue Jan 26, 2010 1:51 pm

vanwinkle wrote:The fail is strong with this one.


TITCR

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sarlis
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Re: Please don't withdraw your applications from Tier-1 Schools

Postby sarlis » Tue Jan 26, 2010 1:56 pm

happy187 wrote:
biv0ns wrote:you're still a douchebag


co-signed


and notorized

4910
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Re: Please don't withdraw your applications from Tier-1 Schools

Postby 4910 » Tue Jan 26, 2010 1:57 pm

i hope i don't have to go to school with this clown

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BigFatPanda
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Re: Please don't withdraw your applications from Tier-1 Schools

Postby BigFatPanda » Tue Jan 26, 2010 1:59 pm

rookhawk wrote:Thank you all for concluding my test. (I won a dollar for this)

I wagered someone that the average law school applicant would be more offended by someone entering with powerful soft skills than they would if someone with more equivocal grades got into a program.

The argument was that people are threatened by those that are different...that their grades being inferior gets them into the same peer group may reflect that there is more to success than grades and that perhaps the original applicant's emphasis on their stats is somehow marginalized. (similar to the proveable bias on TLS against URMs getting into programs with different stats)

Any socialogists wish to chime in on this gentleman's wager at TLS poster's expense?


This reminds me the movie "Trading Places" where two obnoxiously rich D-bags ruined one person's (albeit a snob's) life for a wager of one dollar. One can only imagine if you become a partner at some law firm and totally ruin an associate's life for a wager of $1.

PS, it doesn't take much for law school admission officials to figure out who is a dochebag and who is not. On this forum, you've totally establish a reputation for being a dochebag and perhaps you had exhibited that characteristic in your personal statement and your application. Perhaps this is the real reason behind why you got canned at some top law schools.

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BigFatPanda
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Re: Please don't withdraw your applications from Tier-1 Schools

Postby BigFatPanda » Tue Jan 26, 2010 2:03 pm

rookhawk wrote:Thank you all for concluding my test. (I won a dollar for this)

I wagered someone that the average law school applicant would be more offended by someone entering with powerful soft skills than they would if someone with more equivocal grades got into a program.

The argument was that people are threatened by those that are different...that their grades being inferior gets them into the same peer group may reflect that there is more to success than grades and that perhaps the original applicant's emphasis on their stats is somehow marginalized. (similar to the proveable bias on TLS against URMs getting into programs with different stats)

Any socialogists wish to chime in on this gentleman's wager at TLS poster's expense?


Image

beamsmehome
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Re: Please don't withdraw your applications from Tier-1 Schools

Postby beamsmehome » Tue Jan 26, 2010 2:05 pm

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Last edited by beamsmehome on Fri Feb 05, 2010 11:59 am, edited 2 times in total.

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stratocophic
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Re: Please don't withdraw your applications from Tier-1 Schools

Postby stratocophic » Tue Jan 26, 2010 2:06 pm

beamsmehome wrote:Not sure what your sociological experiment is, but to poke holes in your argument, why would you assume that those with lower sat and gpa numbers would be more tenacious than those with higher numbers? In other words, why wouldn't those who leave the wl and those who stay on the wl NOT follow a mostly normal distribution?


Obviously this is just the LSAC testing flaw-in-the-reasoning questions on a self-selected "top" focus group :lol:

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BaiAilian2013
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Re: Please don't withdraw your applications from Tier-1 Schools

Postby BaiAilian2013 » Tue Jan 26, 2010 2:07 pm

What's up with the numbering? If there's only one item in a list, I don't think assigning the number 1 to it means very much...

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Zapatero
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Re: Please don't withdraw your applications from Tier-1 Schools

Postby Zapatero » Tue Jan 26, 2010 3:30 pm

What are equivocal grades? OP doesn't seem very smart.

rookhawk
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Re: Please don't withdraw your applications from Tier-1 Schools

Postby rookhawk » Tue Jan 26, 2010 3:38 pm

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Last edited by rookhawk on Fri Jan 29, 2010 6:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Panther7
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Re: Please don't withdraw your applications from Tier-1 Schools

Postby Panther7 » Tue Jan 26, 2010 3:38 pm

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Last edited by Panther7 on Tue Jan 26, 2010 3:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

09042014
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Re: Please don't withdraw your applications from Tier-1 Schools

Postby 09042014 » Tue Jan 26, 2010 3:50 pm

This whole post is built on an assumption that when you withdraw, the school immediately pulls someone of the waitlist, or held pool of students. I very much doubt this is the case. It seems like schools have certain guidelines for numbers, then pick all the students they want, wait until deposits are due, then start pulling off the wait list if they need it.

Most admits won't matriculate, so its not the dean of admissions sees one person withdraw and puts another in. Doing so would be a recipe for over booking the class.

This is also an argument against withdrawing early to help other people out.

It doesn't matter.

rookhawk
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Re: Please don't withdraw your applications from Tier-1 Schools

Postby rookhawk » Tue Jan 26, 2010 3:57 pm

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Last edited by rookhawk on Fri Jan 29, 2010 6:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

09042014
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Re: Please don't withdraw your applications from Tier-1 Schools

Postby 09042014 » Tue Jan 26, 2010 4:02 pm

rookhawk wrote:Desert Fox,

There is some evidence that those who come off WL late are not those with necessarily the best scores in the WL pool, but rather those that sell themselves most effectively during that timeframe. "The squeeky wheel gets the grease". It is the balancing act of not annoying the admissions staff while providing additional relevant data (update on a soft, new LSAT score, overcoming a prior objection), writing the correct letter of continued interest, flying in for a campus visit, etc.

I'm sure there are some schools that just go to the numbers and call it a day, but more often than not the WL is treated as "almost good enough for matriculation" to which the applicant's personal response to that conclusion can change the outcome.


Did you even read my post? I don't believe that withdrawing or not has any effect on when they pull from a waitlist. Schools you are admitted to assume there is a only a small chance you'll actually attend.

Withdrawing doesn't open a spot, and holding an acceptance doesn't take one away.

Most applicants aren't going to attend, and schools plan for this.

Schools won't go to their waitlist until April no matter what you do.

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holydonkey
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Re: Please don't withdraw your applications from Tier-1 Schools

Postby holydonkey » Tue Jan 26, 2010 4:07 pm

rookhawk wrote:Thank you all for concluding my test. (I won a dollar for this)


Please see "World's Saddest Internet Argument Techniques"

--LinkRemoved--

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toolshed
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Re: Please don't withdraw your applications from Tier-1 Schools

Postby toolshed » Tue Jan 26, 2010 4:08 pm

rookhawk wrote:Friends,

I provide you with a reason NOT to promptly withdraw your applications from Tier-1 schools EVEN IF you don't have any intention of going to those programs.

The reasoning is as follows:

1. If you do not withdraw promptly it means that your spot will be relinquished to another student in the later stages of the waiting period. During this period the non-traditional students with tenacity will be fighting against the slightly higher scoring students also left in consideration. At that point, the lower scoring people with better softs stand a better chance of getting into the programs. This is a win for those with tenacity and a loss for some of the higher GPA/LSAT people. This will result in the median scores of the institution you decided not to attend will potentially go down. This effect may push YOUR program you do accept to have a higher median score of admits than the scores at the schools you were accepted into but didn't enroll. A net effect is you are pushing the scores up at your school (by enrolling) while providing an opportunity for the scores of enrollees at the schools you don't attend to go down.

In the end, it provides a win for those of us with tenacity (increased acceptance odds) while decreasing the scores of schools you didn't attend which should benefit your program credibility/ranking when you go on to look for a job.

It also benefits the tenacious low-scorers who get to defy those with higher grades during the waitlist period insuring that more enthusiastic people get into law in lieu of those with solely good standardized test scores.


WIN / WIN (and the only losers are the "pretty good" students that can't close the deal during waitlist periods)

rookhawk wrote:Desert Fox,

There is some evidence that those who come off WL late are not those with necessarily the best scores in the WL pool, but rather those that sell themselves most effectively during that timeframe. "The squeeky wheel gets the grease". It is the balancing act of not annoying the admissions staff while providing additional relevant data (update on a soft, new LSAT score, overcoming a prior objection), writing the correct letter of continued interest, flying in for a campus visit, etc.

I'm sure there are some schools that just go to the numbers and call it a day, but more often than not the WL is treated as "almost good enough for matriculation" to which the applicant's personal response to that conclusion can change the outcome.


1. What evidence?
2. Backtrack much?

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Borhas
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Re: Please don't withdraw your applications from Tier-1 Schools

Postby Borhas » Tue Jan 26, 2010 4:10 pm

rookhawk wrote:Friends,

I provide you with a reason NOT to promptly withdraw your applications from Tier-1 schools EVEN IF you don't have any intention of going to those programs.

The reasoning is as follows:

1. If you do not withdraw promptly it means that your spot will be relinquished to another student in the later stages of the waiting period. During this period the non-traditional students with tenacity will be fighting against the slightly higher scoring students also left in consideration. At that point, the lower scoring people with better softs stand a better chance of getting into the programs. This is a win for those with tenacity and a loss for some of the higher GPA/LSAT people. This will result in the median scores of the institution you decided not to attend will potentially go down. This effect may push YOUR program you do accept to have a higher median score of admits than the scores at the schools you were accepted into but didn't enroll. A net effect is you are pushing the scores up at your school (by enrolling) while providing an opportunity for the scores of enrollees at the schools you don't attend to go down.

In the end, it provides a win for those of us with tenacity (increased acceptance odds) while decreasing the scores of schools you didn't attend which should benefit your program credibility/ranking when you go on to look for a job.

It also benefits the tenacious low-scorers who get to defy those with higher grades during the waitlist period insuring that more enthusiastic people get into law in lieu of those with solely good standardized test scores.

WIN / WIN (and the only losers are the "pretty good" students that can't close the deal during waitlist periods)


you seem dumb

CyLaw
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Re: Please don't withdraw your applications from Tier-1 Schools

Postby CyLaw » Tue Jan 26, 2010 4:13 pm

Desert Fox wrote:I don't believe that withdrawing or not has any effect on when they pull from a waitlist. Schools you are admitted to assume there is a only a small chance you'll actually attend.

Withdrawing doesn't open a spot, and holding an acceptance doesn't take one away.

Most applicants aren't going to attend, and schools plan for this.

Schools won't go to their waitlist until April no matter what you do.


+1.
A withdraw does not imply one more open spot.
A withdraw with scholarship money does not imply more available scholarship money

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vanwinkle
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Re: Please don't withdraw your applications from Tier-1 Schools

Postby vanwinkle » Tue Jan 26, 2010 4:39 pm

rookhawk wrote:Thank you all for concluding my test. (I won a dollar for this)

I wagered someone that the average law school applicant would be more offended by someone entering with powerful soft skills than they would if someone with more equivocal grades got into a program.

The argument was that people are threatened by those that are different...that their grades being inferior gets them into the same peer group may reflect that there is more to success than grades and that perhaps the original applicant's emphasis on their stats is somehow marginalized. (similar to the proveable bias on TLS against URMs getting into programs with different stats)

Any socialogists wish to chime in on this gentleman's wager at TLS poster's expense?


1) People are annoyed at your overall cluelessness and stupidity.

2) I entered a T14 law school with "powerful soft skills" and a low GPA, so it'd be pretty retarded for me to somehow be offended by others doing the same.

3) It's "sociologists", and I'm pretty sure they'd chime in that you're retarded too.

beamsmehome
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Re: Please don't withdraw your applications from Tier-1 Schools

Postby beamsmehome » Tue Jan 26, 2010 4:51 pm

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Last edited by beamsmehome on Fri Feb 05, 2010 12:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.




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