would u withdraw some of ur apps if ur in at HYSCCN

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ubunturocks
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would u withdraw some of ur apps if ur in at HYSCCN

Postby ubunturocks » Tue Jan 26, 2010 1:46 am

Some people (including me) recently got admitted into HYSCCN. Congratulations to everyone and loads of thanks to TLSers...

May I suggest that we consider collectively withdrawing some of our applications to the "safe schools" that we have not heard from (if already admitted, inform them about your decision asap) so that others can get admitted straightup instead of being pushed to the waitlist, and those who could not make it to the waitlist can have some more hope as well.

I understand that there could be a number of legitimate concerns: financial aid, location, ... that could make one choose a less highly-ranked school. However, if that is not the case i.e. a school belongs to the category that you will not attend no matter what (say even if you get a freeride), would anyone consider withdrawing?

I am asking about this because I plan to withdraw the apps to about the schools at the bottom of my list, mostly those ranked between 10 and 20, as there is no way I can give up HYSCCN for them. I promised my wife to do this - she's applying this year as well and her numbers are not as great, so she would be more than happy to go to any school in that mini-tier. I figured that if we do this collectively that'll make a difference to some people at least....and make it easiers for schools that practice yield protection...or not?

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Billy Blanks
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Re: would u withdraw some of ur apps if ur in at HYSCCN

Postby Billy Blanks » Tue Jan 26, 2010 1:56 am

I know a lot of people will probably call us out for acting in such a foolhardy manner, but you have affirmed my thinking that it would only be fair to decline my acceptance at a lower t14. I'm going to hold on to an acceptance at a school ranked lower than the one from which I'm withdrawing for financial aid reasons. That said, I see no reason to occupy a seat that I know I will not accept when others out there could benefit from a position opening up.

Here's to a little decency in a hugely competitive field.

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amputatedbrain
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Re: would u withdraw some of ur apps if ur in at HYSCCN

Postby amputatedbrain » Tue Jan 26, 2010 1:56 am

If you don't withdraw from a school that there is absolutely no way you would attend, even with a full ride, then you're a dick.

ubunturocks
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Re: would u withdraw some of ur apps if ur in at HYSCCN

Postby ubunturocks » Tue Jan 26, 2010 2:00 am

Billy Blanks wrote:I know a lot of people will probably call us out for acting in such a foolhardy manner, but you have affirmed my thinking that it would only be fair to decline my acceptance at a lower t14. I'm going to hold on to an acceptance at a school ranked lower than the one from which I'm withdrawing for financial aid reasons. That said, I see no reason to occupy a seat that I know I will not accept when others out there could benefit from a position opening up.

Here's to a little decency in a hugely competitive field.


I couldn't agree more. If there's a school which I know for sure that I'm not going to, I wouldn't wait until later to inform them abt my decision...so that positions can open up more quickly.
Last edited by ubunturocks on Tue Jan 26, 2010 2:04 am, edited 1 time in total.

rookhawk
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Re: would u withdraw some of ur apps if ur in at HYSCCN

Postby rookhawk » Tue Jan 26, 2010 2:04 am

+1
Last edited by rookhawk on Fri Jan 29, 2010 6:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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sundevil77
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Re: would u withdraw some of ur apps if ur in at HYSCCN

Postby sundevil77 » Tue Jan 26, 2010 2:10 am

rookhawk wrote:Question about this philosophy:

We all accept there is a finite amount of seats in any law school admit cycle, correct?

And currently law schools accept more than they can physcial admit, correct? (over subscription knowing a predictable withdraw rate)

So if people are accepted and withdraw NOW then they will replace those individuals with waitlisted or lower quality applicants, correct?

So if people are accepted and DO NOT withdraw now but rather withdraw in 60 days, doesn't the school go right out to the waitlist and lower quality applicants and offer them admission anyway?

In conclusion, it seems that prodding people to withdraw apps doesn't alter the number of students that enroll nor does it change the amount of people offered admissions off waitlists, but rather it only effects the TIMING of such actions. Am I missing something?


I think this is what OP is getting at. Sure, the same number of people are going to get in in the end, but the process will be a whole lot less stressful for those that are able to secure an earlier acceptance instead of having to ride the waitlist for awhile. It allows such people the opportunity to consider their options, possibly visit schools, search for housing, etc. much earlier in advance.
Last edited by sundevil77 on Tue Jan 26, 2010 2:11 am, edited 1 time in total.

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amputatedbrain
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Re: would u withdraw some of ur apps if ur in at HYSCCN

Postby amputatedbrain » Tue Jan 26, 2010 2:10 am

rookhawk wrote:Question about this philosophy:

We all accept there is a finite amount of seats in any law school admit cycle, correct?

And currently law schools accept more than they can physcial admit, correct? (over subscription knowing a predictable withdraw rate)

So if people are accepted and withdraw NOW then they will replace those individuals with waitlisted or lower quality applicants, correct?

So if people are accepted and DO NOT withdraw now but rather withdraw in 60 days, doesn't the school go right out to the waitlist and lower quality applicants and offer them admission anyway?

In conclusion, it seems that prodding people to withdraw apps doesn't alter the number of students that enroll nor does it change the amount of people offered admissions off waitlists, but rather it only effects the TIMING of such actions. Am I missing something?


More or less true . . . although I would imagine that withdrawing early means the lower applicants might get accepted instead of waitlisted then accepted. Since it seems like law schools tend to wait until April or so before going to the wait list (although I'm sort of talking out of my ass now), you might save someone the trouble of putting a seat deposit down elsewhere, and then forfeiting it when they get off the waitlist at the better school.

ubunturocks
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Re: would u withdraw some of ur apps if ur in at HYSCCN

Postby ubunturocks » Tue Jan 26, 2010 2:13 am

rookhawk wrote:Question about this philosophy:

We all accept there is a finite amount of seats in any law school admit cycle, correct?

And currently law schools accept more than they can physcial admit, correct? (over subscription knowing a predictable withdraw rate)

So if people are accepted and withdraw NOW then they will replace those individuals with waitlisted or lower quality applicants, correct?

So if people are accepted and DO NOT withdraw now but rather withdraw in 60 days, doesn't the school go right out to the waitlist and lower quality applicants and offer them admission anyway?

In conclusion, it seems that prodding people to withdraw apps doesn't alter the number of students that enroll nor does it change the amount of people offered admissions off waitlists, but rather it only effects the TIMING of such actions. Am I missing something?


Timing does matter. We've all been through this cycle and know how grueling it is to wait for the decisions to come. I bet some of us have developed OCD-like email checking habits already... so, in a word, if there's anyway that can make them come faster, I'm sure some would appreciate.

And also, some schools don't rank their waitlists. So if some ppl can make it to the waitlist, that's a huge boost to their chances. sure that comes at the expense of ppl w/ higher numbers in the waitlist, but it happens in a good way in that it increases the number of applicants in the pool who are really enthusiastic about the school, which is good for both the school and the applicants.

rookhawk
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Re: would u withdraw some of ur apps if ur in at HYSCCN

Postby rookhawk » Tue Jan 26, 2010 2:41 am

-
Last edited by rookhawk on Fri Jan 29, 2010 6:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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vanwinkle
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Re: would u withdraw some of ur apps if ur in at HYSCCN

Postby vanwinkle » Tue Jan 26, 2010 3:09 am

amputatedbrain wrote:If you don't withdraw from a school that there is absolutely no way you would attend, even with a full ride, then you're a dick.

ubunturocks
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Re: would u withdraw some of ur apps if ur in at HYSCCN

Postby ubunturocks » Tue Jan 26, 2010 4:44 am

rookhawk wrote:
amputatedbrain wrote:
rookhawk wrote:Question about this philosophy:

We all accept there is a finite amount of seats in any law school admit cycle, correct?

And currently law schools accept more than they can physcial admit, correct? (over subscription knowing a predictable withdraw rate)

So if people are accepted and withdraw NOW then they will replace those individuals with waitlisted or lower quality applicants, correct?

So if people are accepted and DO NOT withdraw now but rather withdraw in 60 days, doesn't the school go right out to the waitlist and lower quality applicants and offer them admission anyway?

In conclusion, it seems that prodding people to withdraw apps doesn't alter the number of students that enroll nor does it change the amount of people offered admissions off waitlists, but rather it only effects the TIMING of such actions. Am I missing something?


More or less true . . . although I would imagine that withdrawing early means the lower applicants might get accepted instead of waitlisted then accepted. Since it seems like law schools tend to wait until April or so before going to the wait list (although I'm sort of talking out of my ass now), you might save someone the trouble of putting a seat deposit down elsewhere, and then forfeiting it when they get off the waitlist at the better school.


You know, I'd never really thought of this before and I thank you for making me consider this valid point.
Initially I had been in favor of "helping another student out" but never at my own expense. I now realize it is to my advantage to not encourage others to withdraw early at all. Because if they don't withdraw promptly the pretty good students will get WL with the okay students. Then the game to be played is in my court as a lower scoring applicant with more tenacity during the "continued interest" phase. I'm utilitarian only so far as it doesn't defy my own success. :)



"to my advantage" sure. And I am sure ppl in this country may prefer an act that would work to the the majority's advantage and therefore result in a net increase in social welfare...

deadlinguo
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Re: would u withdraw some of ur apps if ur in at HYSCCN

Postby deadlinguo » Tue Jan 26, 2010 4:59 am

rookhawk wrote:
amputatedbrain wrote:
rookhawk wrote:Question about this philosophy:

We all accept there is a finite amount of seats in any law school admit cycle, correct?

And currently law schools accept more than they can physcial admit, correct? (over subscription knowing a predictable withdraw rate)

So if people are accepted and withdraw NOW then they will replace those individuals with waitlisted or lower quality applicants, correct?

So if people are accepted and DO NOT withdraw now but rather withdraw in 60 days, doesn't the school go right out to the waitlist and lower quality applicants and offer them admission anyway?

In conclusion, it seems that prodding people to withdraw apps doesn't alter the number of students that enroll nor does it change the amount of people offered admissions off waitlists, but rather it only effects the TIMING of such actions. Am I missing something?


More or less true . . . although I would imagine that withdrawing early means the lower applicants might get accepted instead of waitlisted then accepted. Since it seems like law schools tend to wait until April or so before going to the wait list (although I'm sort of talking out of my ass now), you might save someone the trouble of putting a seat deposit down elsewhere, and then forfeiting it when they get off the waitlist at the better school.


You know, I'd never really thought of this before and I thank you for making me consider this valid point.
Initially I had been in favor of "helping another student out" but never at my own expense. I now realize it is to my advantage to not encourage others to withdraw early at all. Because if they don't withdraw promptly the pretty good students will get WL with the okay students. Then the game to be played is in my court as a lower scoring applicant with more tenacity during the "continued interest" phase. I'm utilitarian only so far as it doesn't defy my own success. :)


are you a fan of ayn rand by any chance?

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PDaddy
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Re: would u withdraw some of ur apps if ur in at HYSCCN

Postby PDaddy » Tue Jan 26, 2010 5:06 am

amputatedbrain wrote:If you don't withdraw from a school that there is absolutely no way you would attend, even with a full ride, then you're a dick.


This is true. It's unethical to hold a seat at a school there's no chance of you attending, assuming school costs are covered satisfactorily. However, if there's a chance that you won't be able to pay for school and need leverage, hold on to the seat if it will help you get aid. This luxury is usually reserved for those who got it together and applied early. Waiting out the system and playing schools against each other for money is one of the perks of the hard work put in. That's the way it goes. Everyone of us would do the same thing.

I laughed when people blasted A-Rod for signing that 10-Yr/$250M deal. Like nobody else would have done it. LOL. :roll:

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PDaddy
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Re: would u withdraw some of ur apps if ur in at HYSCCN

Postby PDaddy » Tue Jan 26, 2010 5:14 am

ubunturocks wrote:
Timing does matter. We've all been through this cycle and know how grueling it is to wait for the decisions to come. I bet some of us have developed OCD-like email checking habits already... so, in a word, if there's anyway that can make them come faster, I'm sure some would appreciate.

And also, some schools don't rank their waitlists.


This is a myth. And for sure, almost every school ranks its summer waitlist, especially those that are shortened to about 30-60 just before August, and 5-15 just before orientation week.

I know of two T14 schools that supposedly keep about 15 students until orientation week, and those lists are definitely ranked.

And no, I won't tell which schools, as that would give me away.

rookhawk
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Re: would u withdraw some of ur apps if ur in at HYSCCN

Postby rookhawk » Tue Jan 26, 2010 5:15 am

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Last edited by rookhawk on Fri Jan 29, 2010 6:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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capitalacq
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Re: would u withdraw some of ur apps if ur in at HYSCCN

Postby capitalacq » Tue Jan 26, 2010 10:22 am

if you want to withdraw your own apps, do it.

if you want someone else to withdraw their apps, stfu and retake the LSAT.

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existenz
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Re: would u withdraw some of ur apps if ur in at HYSCCN

Postby existenz » Tue Jan 26, 2010 3:02 pm

PDaddy wrote:
ubunturocks wrote:
Timing does matter. We've all been through this cycle and know how grueling it is to wait for the decisions to come. I bet some of us have developed OCD-like email checking habits already... so, in a word, if there's anyway that can make them come faster, I'm sure some would appreciate.

And also, some schools don't rank their waitlists.


This is a myth. And for sure, almost every school ranks its summer waitlist, especially those that are shortened to about 30-60 just before August, and 5-15 just before orientation week.

I know of two T14 schools that supposedly keep about 15 students until orientation week, and those lists are definitely ranked.

And no, I won't tell which schools, as that would give me away.


I'm just curious -- how would that even work? Let's say I'm accepted at Emory and WL'd at Berkeley. Could Berkeley really call me up on Aug. 1st and say "Hey, a spot opened up. Come on down!" Can a student really switch schools that late in the game, after financial aid and seat deposits and all that?

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WrappedUpInBooks
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Re: would u withdraw some of ur apps if ur in at HYSCCN

Postby WrappedUpInBooks » Tue Jan 26, 2010 3:12 pm

capitalacq wrote:if you want to withdraw your own apps, do it.

if you want someone else to withdraw their apps, stfu and retake the LSAT.


+1

I'm holding on for aid negotiation...

rookhawk
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Re: would u withdraw some of ur apps if ur in at HYSCCN

Postby rookhawk » Tue Jan 26, 2010 3:16 pm

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Last edited by rookhawk on Fri Jan 29, 2010 6:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

jtang11
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Re: would u withdraw some of ur apps if ur in at HYSCCN

Postby jtang11 » Tue Jan 26, 2010 4:50 pm

existenz wrote:I'm just curious -- how would that even work? Let's say I'm accepted at Emory and WL'd at Berkeley. Could Berkeley really call me up on Aug. 1st and say "Hey, a spot opened up. Come on down!" Can a student really switch schools that late in the game, after financial aid and seat deposits and all that?


Yes. That's more or less how it works, according to a friend of mine who ended up at a T-14 not long before classes started.

Quick question - do schools have a preferred format for withdrawal letters? Email? Snail mail?

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vanwinkle
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Re: would u withdraw some of ur apps if ur in at HYSCCN

Postby vanwinkle » Tue Jan 26, 2010 4:52 pm

rookhawk wrote:Indeed. If you keep in active contact with schools and let them know you're ready to come on down and have a seat you could very well be called in at the 11th hour. This would mean forfeiture of whatever sunk costs you have at your admitted law school as a consequence. There are a number of people who would do this for a once in a lifetime chance. I'd certainly take the hit if the call came late from a significantly better school. What's a $5000 loss on apartment deposits, $5000 for another move, $5000 on another apartment and $2000 in seat deposits ($17k) and a loss of some scholly money in return for a significantly better education?

The difference between one tier of school and another isn't the education you get. You're getting additional prestige, alumni networking, and post-employment opportunities, but honestly the education level is going to be about the same.

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Borhas
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Re: would u withdraw some of ur apps if ur in at HYSCCN

Postby Borhas » Tue Jan 26, 2010 4:56 pm

when wondering whether to withdraw your app, apply this simple test:

Would you attend that school knowing what you know now?

If yes, then don't
If no, then withdraw
Last edited by Borhas on Tue Jan 26, 2010 6:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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extempore88
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Re: would u withdraw some of ur apps if ur in at HYSCCN

Postby extempore88 » Tue Jan 26, 2010 5:33 pm

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s0ph1e2007
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Re: would u withdraw some of ur apps if ur in at HYSCCN

Postby s0ph1e2007 » Tue Jan 26, 2010 5:40 pm

my sister got a call from mich a few years back when school had already started (for her so maybe not for mich but it was at least orientation) saying shed been taken off the waitlist and asking if she wanted to come

also, she called them a few months before that asking them what position she was one the waitlist (i.e. where she was ranked) and they told her
so maybe in a couple months, anyone who's waiting on a end all and be all school waitlist decision can call and find out what likelihood they have of getting in.

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PDaddy
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Re: would u withdraw some of ur apps if ur in at HYSCCN

Postby PDaddy » Wed Jan 27, 2010 4:18 am

existenz wrote:
PDaddy wrote:
ubunturocks wrote:
Timing does matter. We've all been through this cycle and know how grueling it is to wait for the decisions to come. I bet some of us have developed OCD-like email checking habits already... so, in a word, if there's anyway that can make them come faster, I'm sure some would appreciate.

And also, some schools don't rank their waitlists.


This is a myth. And for sure, almost every school ranks its summer waitlist, especially those that are shortened to about 30-60 just before August, and 5-15 just before orientation week.

I know of two T14 schools that supposedly keep about 15 students until orientation week, and those lists are definitely ranked.

And no, I won't tell which schools, as that would give me away.


I'm just curious -- how would that even work? Let's say I'm accepted at Emory and WL'd at Berkeley. Could Berkeley really call me up on Aug. 1st and say "Hey, a spot opened up. Come on down!" Can a student really switch schools that late in the game, after financial aid and seat deposits and all that?


It happens every year, and to more than a few students. Check around and you'll find this out. This year, people will get phone calls on (Friday) August 13th, ironically, and Monday, August 16th from schools inviting them to enroll. They just have to be ready.




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