Which Law Schools Value a Rigorous Undergrad experience?

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MHalberstram
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Which Law Schools Value a Rigorous Undergrad experience?

Postby MHalberstram » Mon Jan 25, 2010 5:20 pm

I'm new on this board, and I apologize if this question has been posed before, but I ran a search and didn't see it.

I understand that most law schools would rather have a 3.8 from your average state U. over a 3.3 from Harvard. But I have also heard that some LS admissions offices DO place a degree of importance on where an applicants undergrad coursework was completed- Wash U was mentioned in particular.

I ask because I'm an undergrad at a top 30 university (not quite Harvard though), with a reputation as one of the toughest in the country, and an econ major. I've got a pretty low GPA ( < 3.0) but I am expecting a strong LSAT (high 160's, maybe low 170's). So, I was wondering which, if any, law schools put emphasis on the degree of difficulty of an applicant's undergrad coursework?

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bees
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Re: Which Law Schools Value a Rigorous Undergrad experience?

Postby bees » Mon Jan 25, 2010 5:22 pm

None. Seriously.

Yale might frown on someone for having too easy a major, but you'll be hard pressed to find any school that looks at your less than 3.0 GPA as anything but that.

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mb88
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Re: Which Law Schools Value a Rigorous Undergrad experience?

Postby mb88 » Mon Jan 25, 2010 5:39 pm

Unfortunately, and as harsh as it sounds, bees is 100% correct.

Unless you have a killer LSAT to make up for it (and I mean at least the mid 170s), the addcomms at the top schools are going to toss your application into the auto-ding pile when they see the GPA. Some schools might look a bit deeper at your major and undergraduate school, but that's only after they've looked at your raw scores and deemed them at least acceptable. The moral of this story is that if you want to attend a top-20 institution, you better study for the LSAT until your brain bleeds, because at those schools a sub 3.0 without a 99th% LSAT gets your application thrown into the trash. Just look at the statistics over at http://www.lawschoolnumbers.com, or plug in your stats (although this'll be hard without a real LSAT) at http://www.lawschoolpredictor.com/?page_id=11.

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James Bond
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Re: Which Law Schools Value a Rigorous Undergrad experience?

Postby James Bond » Mon Jan 25, 2010 5:40 pm

Hahahaha "rigorous undergrad experience"

Seriously talk like a person not an admissions pamphlet.

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brickman
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Re: Which Law Schools Value a Rigorous Undergrad experience?

Postby brickman » Mon Jan 25, 2010 5:42 pm

UIUC is very considerate about what your major was. If you got a 3.4 in computer science vs a 3.4 in sociology and all other factors are the same, it seems as if Dean Pless will look favorably on the Computer science major over the sociology major.

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SamSeaborn2016
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Re: Which Law Schools Value a Rigorous Undergrad experience?

Postby SamSeaborn2016 » Mon Jan 25, 2010 5:44 pm

A "rigorous undergrad experience" sounds like you majored in cross country skiing or jogging.


Seriously, though, schools are looking to keep their numbers strong or increase them so going to a strong undergrad isn't going to help you much if your GPA isn't up to snuff. That said, if it comes down to a couple of applicants with the same GPA, you will probably get the edge over someone who went to Random State U. Same goes for people who had "tougher" majors such as engineering. In the end, it probably won't get you into a school where your numbers aren't already in the zone. I'd buckle down and try to own the LSAT.
Last edited by SamSeaborn2016 on Mon Jan 25, 2010 5:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Lurkster
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Re: Which Law Schools Value a Rigorous Undergrad experience?

Postby Lurkster » Mon Jan 25, 2010 5:51 pm

Halberstram, the adcoms aren't going to care about your penchant for Valentino suits and Oliver Peoples glasses.

09042014
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Re: Which Law Schools Value a Rigorous Undergrad experience?

Postby 09042014 » Mon Jan 25, 2010 5:53 pm

MHalberstram wrote:I'm new on this board, and I apologize if this question has been posed before, but I ran a search and didn't see it.

I understand that most law schools would rather have a 3.8 from your average state U. over a 3.3 from Harvard. But I have also heard that some LS admissions offices DO place a degree of importance on where an applicants undergrad coursework was completed- Wash U was mentioned in particular.

I ask because I'm an undergrad at a top 30 university (not quite Harvard though), with a reputation as one of the toughest in the country, and an econ major. I've got a pretty low GPA ( < 3.0) but I am expecting a strong LSAT (high 160's, maybe low 170's). So, I was wondering which, if any, law schools put emphasis on the degree of difficulty of an applicant's undergrad coursework?


Get a 172 and some work experience and apply to Northwestern like the rest of us.

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prezidentv8
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Re: Which Law Schools Value a Rigorous Undergrad experience?

Postby prezidentv8 » Mon Jan 25, 2010 5:56 pm

This is like the fourth thread on this topic in the last like, two weeks.

Like....like.....this is like....ARRRRRGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHH!!!!!

<passes out>

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prezidentv8
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Re: Which Law Schools Value a Rigorous Undergrad experience?

Postby prezidentv8 » Mon Jan 25, 2010 5:57 pm

sorry :oops:

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kittenmittons
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Re: Which Law Schools Value a Rigorous Undergrad experience?

Postby kittenmittons » Mon Jan 25, 2010 5:58 pm

Did you go to Chicago?

LJackson
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Re: Which Law Schools Value a Rigorous Undergrad experience?

Postby LJackson » Mon Jan 25, 2010 5:59 pm

Related Question:
I am kind of in the opposite position. How are admissions going to view my Political Science/Sociology Minor Degree from a so-so State University? I have got all 4.0's for the past 2 years but my coursework has been (in my opinion) a bit of a joke. Who is better off as far as admissions go?

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im_blue
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Re: Which Law Schools Value a Rigorous Undergrad experience?

Postby im_blue » Mon Jan 25, 2010 6:01 pm

top 30 university (not quite Harvard though), with a reputation as one of the toughest in the country

OK I'm curious...what top 30 has a tough reputation? Georgia Tech? :?

brickman wrote:UIUC is very considerate about what your major was. If you got a 3.4 in computer science vs a 3.4 in sociology and all other factors are the same, it seems as if Dean Pless will look favorably on the Computer science major over the sociology major.


Not if Dean Pless wants to keep his 3.8 GPA median, which is easily the highest of the non-T14's and higher than even CCN! Any 3.4 is below median and will need at least a median LSAT to be considered.
Last edited by im_blue on Mon Jan 25, 2010 6:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Nom Sawyer
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Re: Which Law Schools Value a Rigorous Undergrad experience?

Postby Nom Sawyer » Mon Jan 25, 2010 6:03 pm

LJackson wrote:Related Question:
I am kind of in the opposite position. How are admissions going to view my Political Science/Sociology Minor Degree from a so-so State University? I have got all 4.0's for the past 2 years but my coursework has been (in my opinion) a bit of a joke. Who is better off as far as admissions go?


You are. Now go crush the LSAT.

Woozy
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Re: Which Law Schools Value a Rigorous Undergrad experience?

Postby Woozy » Mon Jan 25, 2010 6:05 pm

I can't believe that no one has yet pointed out that OP as a T30 Econ major seems more likely to lose a GPA tie than win one. I myself cruised to slightly <3.0 in econ at a decent UG, I don't think any adcoms will be fooled into thinking that is much of an achievement.

You need to kill the LSAT and look to the splitter-friendly schools: Minn, IU-B, UIUC, NU, UVA, etc. Getting a good LSAT and finding splitter-friendly targets will have an impact on your cycle. Finding a school that will think your GPA is impressive is impossible.

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im_blue
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Re: Which Law Schools Value a Rigorous Undergrad experience?

Postby im_blue » Mon Jan 25, 2010 6:07 pm

Woozy wrote:I can't believe that no one has yet pointed out that OP as a T30 Econ major seems more likely to lose a GPA tie than win one.


Absolutely. When you're applying to T14, a T30 econ major is likely way below their average admit. Let's not pretend econ is electrical engineering or something.
Last edited by im_blue on Mon Jan 25, 2010 6:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

09042014
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Re: Which Law Schools Value a Rigorous Undergrad experience?

Postby 09042014 » Mon Jan 25, 2010 6:07 pm

im_blue wrote:
top 30 university (not quite Harvard though), with a reputation as one of the toughest in the country

OK I'm curious...what top 30 has a tough reputation? Georgia Tech? :?

brickman wrote:UIUC is very considerate about what your major was. If you got a 3.4 in computer science vs a 3.4 in sociology and all other factors are the same, it seems as if Dean Pless will look favorably on the Computer science major over the sociology major.


Not if Dean Pless wants to keep his 3.8 GPA median, which is easily the highest of the non-T14's and higher than even CCN! Any 3.4 is below median and will need at least a median LSAT to be considered.


In order to take advantage of this boost, I'm willing to bet you need an above median LSAT.

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scribelaw
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Re: Which Law Schools Value a Rigorous Undergrad experience?

Postby scribelaw » Mon Jan 25, 2010 6:08 pm

LJackson wrote:Related Question:
I am kind of in the opposite position. How are admissions going to view my Political Science/Sociology Minor Degree from a so-so State University? I have got all 4.0's for the past 2 years but my coursework has been (in my opinion) a bit of a joke. Who is better off as far as admissions go?


I'm interested in this question too, coming far from the Ivy confines.

The thing is, if you get a 98th or 99th percentile LSAT score (170+), it will validate your GPA, and you'll have outperformed the vast majority of candidates from better UGs with more impressive-sounding majors.

I think it won't hurt you, except in rare cases (if you're very borderline somewhere and don't have softs to counter a weak UG) and perhaps at one or two schools such as Chicago, which people on here say seems to favor prestigious UGs. Even then, with good numbers, that can be easily overcome.

I also wonder how much time adcomms spend sifting through your course offerings and trying to decide whether your classes were easy or not. I think your numbers tell them a lot more, and that's what they care most about, obviously.

am060459
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Re: Which Law Schools Value a Rigorous Undergrad experience?

Postby am060459 » Mon Jan 25, 2010 6:08 pm

Which Law Schools Value a Rigorous Undergrad experience?

i believe Cooley does.

09042014
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Re: Which Law Schools Value a Rigorous Undergrad experience?

Postby 09042014 » Mon Jan 25, 2010 6:10 pm

MHalberstram wrote:I'm new on this board, and I apologize if this question has been posed before, but I ran a search and didn't see it.

I understand that most law schools would rather have a 3.8 from your average state U. over a 3.3 from Harvard. But I have also heard that some LS admissions offices DO place a degree of importance on where an applicants undergrad coursework was completed- Wash U was mentioned in particular.

I ask because I'm an undergrad at a top 30 university (not quite Harvard though), with a reputation as one of the toughest in the country, and an econ major. I've got a pretty low GPA ( < 3.0) but I am expecting a strong LSAT (high 160's, maybe low 170's). So, I was wondering which, if any, law schools put emphasis on the degree of difficulty of an applicant's undergrad coursework?


I don't believe I got any break for my more rigorous Top 5 engineering background, so I wouldn't count on any.

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clevinger33
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Re: Which Law Schools Value a Rigorous Undergrad experience?

Postby clevinger33 » Mon Jan 25, 2010 6:13 pm

im_blue wrote:
Woozy wrote:I can't believe that no one has yet pointed out that OP as a T30 Econ major seems more likely to lose a GPA tie than win one.


Absolutely. When you're applying to T14, a T30 econ major is likely way below their average admit. Let's not pretend econ is electrical engineering or something.


Yeah. Since when is Econ a hard major? I mean, it's not Communications or Sports Management, but let's be a little realistic here.

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Nom Sawyer
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Re: Which Law Schools Value a Rigorous Undergrad experience?

Postby Nom Sawyer » Mon Jan 25, 2010 6:15 pm

clevinger33 wrote:
im_blue wrote:
Woozy wrote:I can't believe that no one has yet pointed out that OP as a T30 Econ major seems more likely to lose a GPA tie than win one.


Absolutely. When you're applying to T14, a T30 econ major is likely way below their average admit. Let's not pretend econ is electrical engineering or something.


Yeah. Since when is Econ a hard major? I mean, it's not Communications or Sports Management, but let's be a little realistic here.


Obviously Econ is a hard major. I mean when something is called "that dismal science" you know its tough.

09042014
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Re: Which Law Schools Value a Rigorous Undergrad experience?

Postby 09042014 » Mon Jan 25, 2010 6:15 pm

clevinger33 wrote:
im_blue wrote:
Woozy wrote:I can't believe that no one has yet pointed out that OP as a T30 Econ major seems more likely to lose a GPA tie than win one.


Absolutely. When you're applying to T14, a T30 econ major is likely way below their average admit. Let's not pretend econ is electrical engineering or something.


Yeah. Since when is Econ a hard major? I mean, it's not Communications or Sports Management, but let's be a little realistic here.


Some schools grade econ classes on a curve, which means its competitive, though that is not the same as rigorous. But even then, I'm guessing his GPA is bottom third of his class at best. At some of the more grade inflated T1 undergrads its pretty close to DFL.

Oban
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Re: Which Law Schools Value a Rigorous Undergrad experience?

Postby Oban » Mon Jan 25, 2010 6:24 pm

..
Last edited by Oban on Fri Oct 01, 2010 12:47 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Drake014
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Re: Which Law Schools Value a Rigorous Undergrad experience?

Postby Drake014 » Mon Jan 25, 2010 6:35 pm

MHalberstram wrote:I'm new on this board, and I apologize if this question has been posed before, but I ran a search and didn't see it.

I understand that most law schools would rather have a 3.8 from your average state U. over a 3.3 from Harvard. But I have also heard that some LS admissions offices DO place a degree of importance on where an applicants undergrad coursework was completed- Wash U was mentioned in particular.

I ask because I'm an undergrad at a top 30 university (not quite Harvard though), with a reputation as one of the toughest in the country, and an econ major. I've got a pretty low GPA ( < 3.0) but I am expecting a strong LSAT (high 160's, maybe low 170's). So, I was wondering which, if any, law schools put emphasis on the degree of difficulty of an applicant's undergrad coursework?


Schools care about their numbers. If a school wants to admit you (because you help their LSAT, are a URM, son of a major donor, etc) they will look for reasons to admit you such as giving you a UG boost. Translation, get an LSAT that helps their median go up and they will look for reasons to admit you.




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