JD/MBA smarter to do if your at a lower tier law school?

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Think_lax86
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JD/MBA smarter to do if your at a lower tier law school?

Postby Think_lax86 » Thu Jan 14, 2010 6:52 pm

I know the topic of the JD/MBA degree has been brought up in a number of posts but my question is in regards to trying to get into this program if your not at one of the top 50 law schools. I, unfortunately will not be attending NYU, Columbia, Harvard, blah blah blah. I will most likely end up at Hofstra, St. Johns, New York Law, Pace, etc. I recently took a few business courses because I was debating about getting an MBA instead of a Law degree but in the end Law won out. I did, however, notice a clear connection between the business world and the legal world and I have been strongly considering pursuing this joint degree option. Unfortunately I just graduated from college and dont have any real work experience which I know is really kind of a prerequisite for most Business Schools.

What I am trying to figure out, really though, is wouldnt it be smarter to pursue this degree for someone in my situation who isnt attending a top law school? Maybe it is all of the lemings on here or something, but I feel like I will be at a big disadvantage going to a number 100 or lower law school... I feel that an MBA might help me not only pursue my interest in business, but might also give me a bit of an edge... I know I dont stand a chance when it comes to people from Yale, Harvard, etc. but I feel that this extra degree/knowledge might make me more marketable than just the law degree would if I attended a lower ranked school.

Any insight/suggestions/feedback?

Thanks

Oblomov
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Re: JD/MBA smarter to do if your at a lower tier law school?

Postby Oblomov » Thu Jan 14, 2010 6:55 pm

If you can do it without it costing you much cash, and don't mind the extra time in school then yes it is probably worth it. Obviously it's better to have both degrees, but is it worth the costs?


And prepare to get stoned for your willingness to attend any of the law schools mentioned.

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samer
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Re: JD/MBA smarter to do if your at a lower tier law school?

Postby samer » Thu Jan 14, 2010 6:57 pm

Just marking this because I'm interested in the JD/MBA program at Loyola Chicago. You basically asked the question I've been thinking about.

Think_lax86
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Re: JD/MBA smarter to do if your at a lower tier law school?

Postby Think_lax86 » Thu Jan 14, 2010 7:12 pm

Hey Oblomov,

Is it really "Obvious" though? because I originally thought having these two degrees would be a monster combo but apparently I might be wrong... I was thinking of trying to work in a decent size to big law firm for a few years to pay off all my loans, and than once I am fed up with working like a mexican slave boy I could use my MBA and law experience/knowledge to do something else...

Apparently, however, law firms might look at this dual degree combo and think I might shift to business and that it might work negatively against me?

What are the kinds of jobs people do with a joint MBA/JD degree?

And should I even bother considering this because I am going to law school pretty much straight out of college and wont have any real work experience? I know alot of bus. schools frown upon that and I would hate to choose a law school based partially around possibly getting into this program, only to find out in my 2nd year that I was doomed from the get go because I didnt have any work experience... Or will the fact that I am working toward a JD supercede this fact?

....

HerseyChris
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Re: JD/MBA smarter to do if your at a lower tier law school?

Postby HerseyChris » Thu Jan 14, 2010 7:15 pm

I'm considering doing this if I get into UW Law. I figure 3 years at law school, if I get an MBA and JD in 4 years (and LLM in half a year), why not just go to school for 4.5 years? UW isn't too expensive, and I'm in no rush to work. Plus I figure it'll take the economy a while to recover anyways. I'm interested in seeing what others have to say.

Think_lax86
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Re: JD/MBA smarter to do if your at a lower tier law school?

Postby Think_lax86 » Thu Jan 14, 2010 7:18 pm

sorry for double posting but regarding my last question... lets say I try to do this joint program but the fact that I dont have work experience prohibits me from getting in... well I know that most programs allow 9 credits from the law school to transfer to the business school, and 9 credits from the business school to transfer to the law school... That is why you save a year doing this program... I am pretty sure that you take a few cross registered business/law classes while at law school and than the 4th year you take all bus classes...

If I dont get into the program because I dont have "work experience", can I always just come back like 5-10 years later (after I have "work experience" at a law firm, etc. etc.) and reapply to the MBA program and than just transfer the credits I took while in law school to the program? Would that allow me to knock off that additional 1 year because I have credits already?

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Dick Whitman
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Re: JD/MBA smarter to do if your at a lower tier law school?

Postby Dick Whitman » Thu Jan 14, 2010 7:20 pm

Think_lax86 wrote:Hey Oblomov,

Is it really "Obvious" though? because I originally thought having these two degrees would be a monster combo but apparently I might be wrong... I was thinking of trying to work in a decent size to big law firm for a few years to pay off all my loans, and than once I am fed up with working like a mexican slave boy I could use my MBA and law experience/knowledge to do something else...

Apparently, however, law firms might look at this dual degree combo and think I might shift to business and that it might work negatively against me?

What are the kinds of jobs people do with a joint MBA/JD degree?

And should I even bother considering this because I am going to law school pretty much straight out of college and wont have any real work experience? I know alot of bus. schools frown upon that and I would hate to choose a law school based partially around possibly getting into this program, only to find out in my 2nd year that I was doomed from the get go because I didnt have any work experience... Or will the fact that I am working toward a JD supercede this fact?

....


Some law firms love JD/MBAs. Others won't hire them. So it depends.

Oblomov
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Re: JD/MBA smarter to do if your at a lower tier law school?

Postby Oblomov » Thu Jan 14, 2010 7:21 pm

Think_lax86 wrote:Hey Oblomov,

Is it really "Obvious" though? because I originally thought having these two degrees would be a monster combo but apparently I might be wrong... I was thinking of trying to work in a decent size to big law firm for a few years to pay off all my loans, and than once I am fed up with working like a mexican slave boy I could use my MBA and law experience/knowledge to do something else...

Apparently, however, law firms might look at this dual degree combo and think I might shift to business and that it might work negatively against me?

What are the kinds of jobs people do with a joint MBA/JD degree?

And should I even bother considering this because I am going to law school pretty much straight out of college and wont have any real work experience? I know alot of bus. schools frown upon that and I would hate to choose a law school based partially around possibly getting into this program, only to find out in my 2nd year that I was doomed from the get go because I didnt have any work experience... Or will the fact that I am working toward a JD supercede this fact?

....


First, to be blunt there's no way you're going to work for a large firm unless you are top 1% of your class and editor of the law review. Medium firm you might get by with top 3%. I'm not saying this to be elitist, but to be honest.

Second, the added value of the JD/MBA is at OCI/graduation and maybe a couple of years out. A that point, employers are going to care about your experience and abilities, not the dual degree (they will still care about the name on your JD, though the emphasis will diminish over time).

The foremost of your concerns should be the job prospects coming out of those schools. They are not good. Before thinking about anything else, research these prospects.

Oblomov
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Re: JD/MBA smarter to do if your at a lower tier law school?

Postby Oblomov » Thu Jan 14, 2010 7:34 pm

HerseyChris wrote:I'm considering doing this if I get into UW Law. I figure 3 years at law school, if I get an MBA and JD in 4 years (and LLM in half a year), why not just go to school for 4.5 years? UW isn't too expensive, and I'm in no rush to work. Plus I figure it'll take the economy a while to recover anyways. I'm interested in seeing what others have to say.


Is this something you need, or is it something you're buying because it's a bargain! Look at all the money you saved! If the latter is the case, you're not thinking well and you're probably related to my girlfriend.

Now UW is a respectable school, I'll grant you that. But have you though about what you would like to do? Have you thought about how these degrees will fit into that? Have you thought about all the financial and opportunity costs? It could be a good idea, but just doing it to do it is a bad idea unless you don't care about the time or money.

Think_lax86
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Re: JD/MBA smarter to do if your at a lower tier law school?

Postby Think_lax86 » Thu Jan 14, 2010 7:40 pm

Oblomov now your just hurting my feelings :cry:

I am interested in business and I am interested in law... seeing how law school is 3 years and will probably help me pay off my loans faster I figured I could practice for a while, and if it gets too much, if some woman lets me impregnate her, etc. I might want to think about a job that doesnt require me to work the hours of a ballin ass lawyer... ya feel me?

I thought the MBA might give me room to transition out of law and into something else... I also see alot of interconnetions btwn law and business and wanted to further my understanding of it...

HerseyChris
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Re: JD/MBA smarter to do if your at a lower tier law school?

Postby HerseyChris » Thu Jan 14, 2010 7:50 pm

Oblomov wrote:
HerseyChris wrote:I'm considering doing this if I get into UW Law. I figure 3 years at law school, if I get an MBA and JD in 4 years (and LLM in half a year), why not just go to school for 4.5 years? UW isn't too expensive, and I'm in no rush to work. Plus I figure it'll take the economy a while to recover anyways. I'm interested in seeing what others have to say.


Is this something you need, or is it something you're buying because it's a bargain! Look at all the money you saved! If the latter is the case, you're not thinking well and you're probably related to my girlfriend.

Now UW is a respectable school, I'll grant you that. But have you though about what you would like to do? Have you thought about how these degrees will fit into that? Have you thought about all the financial and opportunity costs? It could be a good idea, but just doing it to do it is a bad idea unless you don't care about the time or money.



Eh, I'll have worked in accounting and finance for 3+ years by the time law school rolls around. UW isn't real expensive, and I want to do tax law (almost done with the CPA, both my parents and my twin brother have one). $20,000 tuition isn't a whole lot of money, and I'd rather do it in one year then wait a year or two and spend two years getting an MBA. But yeah, on the whole I don't care much about the time or money of an MBA. I don't think missing a year of work will hurt me much (what's 4.5 years compared to 3.5?) , and I'm one of those lucky people who probably won't ever have to worry much about money (because of parents, but also because I never need to spend any). I figure it's not much risk for a possible reward (in career) but a definite reward because I love UW and having a MBA next to my JD and CPA will be pretty cool.

valley splitter
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Re: JD/MBA smarter to do if your at a lower tier law school?

Postby valley splitter » Thu Jan 14, 2010 8:09 pm

Dick Whitman wrote:
Think_lax86 wrote:Hey Oblomov,

Is it really "Obvious" though? because I originally thought having these two degrees would be a monster combo but apparently I might be wrong... I was thinking of trying to work in a decent size to big law firm for a few years to pay off all my loans, and than once I am fed up with working like a mexican slave boy I could use my MBA and law experience/knowledge to do something else...

Apparently, however, law firms might look at this dual degree combo and think I might shift to business and that it might work negatively against me?

What are the kinds of jobs people do with a joint MBA/JD degree?

And should I even bother considering this because I am going to law school pretty much straight out of college and wont have any real work experience? I know alot of bus. schools frown upon that and I would hate to choose a law school based partially around possibly getting into this program, only to find out in my 2nd year that I was doomed from the get go because I didnt have any work experience... Or will the fact that I am working toward a JD supercede this fact?

....


Some law firms love JD/MBAs. Others won't hire them. So it depends.


Which firms supposedly don't hire JD/MBA graduates? I have seen the attorney profiles at many highly ranked and prestigious law firms and found numerous individuals with JD/MBAs from all sorts of ranked schools.

avacado111
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Re: JD/MBA smarter to do if your at a lower tier law school?

Postby avacado111 » Thu Jan 14, 2010 8:14 pm

Ken said something about this in another post. most law firms think your flighty when you have both a jd/mba so they might nto hire you. This becomes worse if you graduate from a lower ranked school.

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AngryAvocado
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Re: JD/MBA smarter to do if your at a lower tier law school?

Postby AngryAvocado » Thu Jan 14, 2010 8:54 pm

I think the potential for an MBA to help differentiate you from a sea of other lower tier graduates easily outweighs the risk of being perceived as a flight risk. To be honest, it's unlikely that you'll find a job that pays well coming from those schools anyhow.

That said, I think you'll probably have better luck focusing on MBA prospects and using the JD as a supplement. The business side of things isn't exactly thriving, but I think the potential for upward mobility if you're willing to work hard enough is much greater there than in law. Just my 2 cents, but that's what I'd do if I were in your shoes.

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Space_Cowboy
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Re: JD/MBA smarter to do if your at a lower tier law school?

Postby Space_Cowboy » Thu Jan 14, 2010 8:59 pm

Please talk to some actual attorneys before signing up for an MBA because you think it will differentiate you.

Oblomov
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Re: JD/MBA smarter to do if your at a lower tier law school?

Postby Oblomov » Thu Jan 14, 2010 9:04 pm

AngryAvocado wrote:I think the potential for an MBA to help differentiate you from a sea of other lower tier graduates easily outweighs the risk of being perceived as a flight risk. To be honest, it's unlikely that you'll find a job that pays well coming from those schools anyhow.

That said, I think you'll probably have better luck focusing on MBA prospects and using the JD as a supplement. The business side of things isn't exactly thriving, but I think the potential for upward mobility if you're willing to work hard enough is much greater there than in law. Just my 2 cents, but that's what I'd do if I were in your shoes.


You think that a JD as a "supplement" is worth two years of schooling and 100K?

Danteshek
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Re: JD/MBA smarter to do if your at a lower tier law school?

Postby Danteshek » Thu Jan 14, 2010 9:08 pm

I might do the MBA at Drucker if I finish in the top 10% this year and get a full scholarship to my law school
This also depends on whether I get into SEC Summer Honors Law Program.
I have four years of investment industry experience.

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AngryAvocado
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Re: JD/MBA smarter to do if your at a lower tier law school?

Postby AngryAvocado » Thu Jan 14, 2010 9:32 pm

Oblomov wrote:
AngryAvocado wrote:I think the potential for an MBA to help differentiate you from a sea of other lower tier graduates easily outweighs the risk of being perceived as a flight risk. To be honest, it's unlikely that you'll find a job that pays well coming from those schools anyhow.

That said, I think you'll probably have better luck focusing on MBA prospects and using the JD as a supplement. The business side of things isn't exactly thriving, but I think the potential for upward mobility if you're willing to work hard enough is much greater there than in law. Just my 2 cents, but that's what I'd do if I were in your shoes.


You think that a JD as a "supplement" is worth two years of schooling and 100K?


Joint degree = 1 year extra for most places, with at least a few being doable in 3 years. It's also nowhere near 100k for most people.

Space_Cowboy wrote:Please talk to some actual attorneys before signing up for an MBA because you think it will differentiate you.


Graduating from a lower tier school, even if you are high in the class, doesn't exactly differentiate you either when there are 200+ law schools out there. Further, there are, believe it or not, some niche firms that actually like JD/MBAs. There are also several industries (consulting, finance corporations, etc.) that seem to like the dual degree. I just think his long-term career prospects would likely be better coming out with a JD/MBA than with a lower tier JD.

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beesknees
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Re: JD/MBA smarter to do if your at a lower tier law school?

Postby beesknees » Thu Jan 14, 2010 9:41 pm

.
Last edited by beesknees on Sun Dec 05, 2010 12:57 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Space_Cowboy
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Re: JD/MBA smarter to do if your at a lower tier law school?

Postby Space_Cowboy » Thu Jan 14, 2010 9:56 pm

AngryAvocado wrote:
Space_Cowboy wrote:Please talk to some actual attorneys before signing up for an MBA because you think it will differentiate you.


Graduating from a lower tier school, even if you are high in the class, doesn't exactly differentiate you either when there are 200+ law schools out there. Further, there are, believe it or not, some niche firms that actually like JD/MBAs. There are also several industries (consulting, finance corporations, etc.) that seem to like the dual degree. I just think his long-term career prospects would likely be better coming out with a JD/MBA than with a lower tier JD.


I hope you kept track of all the assumptions in your reasoning.

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Dick Whitman
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Re: JD/MBA smarter to do if your at a lower tier law school?

Postby Dick Whitman » Thu Jan 14, 2010 10:01 pm

valley splitter wrote:
Which firms supposedly don't hire JD/MBA graduates? I have seen the attorney profiles at many highly ranked and prestigious law firms and found numerous individuals with JD/MBAs from all sorts of ranked schools.


Proskauer, supposedly.

Think_lax86
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Re: JD/MBA smarter to do if your at a lower tier law school?

Postby Think_lax86 » Thu Jan 14, 2010 10:47 pm

What about certificate programs that are offered by business schools? like if i was getting my JD from somewhere and lets just say I didnt have the "work experience" needed to get me into the joint program... are there any certificate programs out there that might help me in the future if, for instance, I didnt want to practice law for the rest of my life? Or other certs out there that might help make me more marketable? what are some other joint degrees that couple well with a JD for someone who is coming from a lower tier law school or any law school for that matter?

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chadwick218
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Re: JD/MBA smarter to do if your at a lower tier law school?

Postby chadwick218 » Thu Jan 14, 2010 10:56 pm

Depends on the school / program that you are considering. IU-B has a very good 3-year JD/MBA program. However, I think that there comes a point where I am just not sure that it is worth spending another year in school for an MBA from a lousy school.

ScaredWorkedBored
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Re: JD/MBA smarter to do if your at a lower tier law school?

Postby ScaredWorkedBored » Thu Jan 14, 2010 11:03 pm

I would actually probably say "no" since the question is lower tier. MBA is really only a serious value added at highly ranked MBA schools. The main purpose of the raw piece of paper of an MBA is not that relevant to most law students; you're not trying to qualify for the next leg up in the corporate ladder.

valley splitter
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Re: JD/MBA smarter to do if your at a lower tier law school?

Postby valley splitter » Thu Jan 14, 2010 11:16 pm

Dick Whitman wrote:
valley splitter wrote:
Which firms supposedly don't hire JD/MBA graduates? I have seen the attorney profiles at many highly ranked and prestigious law firms and found numerous individuals with JD/MBAs from all sorts of ranked schools.


Proskauer, supposedly.


Proskauer, from what I read and as of Fall 2006, hires JD/MBA's and though they give no bonus they grant 1 year advance class standing if the joint degree is completed in 4 years, the offer is for the corporate group, and if the individual has prior full-time business work experience. Unless things have drastically changed in their hiring process, which I doubt, I don't think having a JD/MBA would preclude an individual from securing employment at uber-prestigious Proskauer.




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