withdrawal

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prezidentv8
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Re: withdrawal

Postby prezidentv8 » Thu Jan 14, 2010 7:54 pm

bitlrc wrote:these other posters are correct, there is an ethical problem caused by your refusal to maintain full time student status through the entire semester, if indeed that is a condition of the scholarship. maybe i can draw an analogy:

let's say you took your car to a repairman, and he promised to fix your fix 4 parts of your car. you pay him in full under the condition that he fix all 4 parts. after a while, the repairman decided he no longer wanted to complete the work, so he fixed 2 parts and then kept all your money. not very ethical, right? he may have "earned" your money because his previous work record was positive and he had came highly recommended, but earning the money was still contingent upon his completion of the work.

i understand it's the biggest stretch for an analogy that has ever been laid out. regardless, if you do not stay within the terms of the scholarship, even though you earned it and your adviser said it was the right thing to do, you would still be in violation of the terms of the scholarship and, if someone caught on, it would most likely be revoked.

that said, if you're confident you get away with it and you're willing to take the risk then try it out. i'm not saying you'll definitely get caught, i'm just saying if someone noticed what happened and cared enough about it, you probably would have to pay back a portion of the scholarship and it may show up somewhere on your records when you apply to law school (which i assume, considering the site this was posted on, is your ultimate reasoning behind the post).


That is one painful analogy.

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bissey
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Re: withdrawal

Postby bissey » Thu Jan 14, 2010 7:56 pm

shadowfrost000 wrote:
bissey wrote:
JessicaTiger wrote:You asked a question. We responded. You didn't like the answer, so you get pissy.

It is pretty obvious by the name calling and insults you have thrown around that you are just looking for people to affirm the underhanded maneuver you are trying to pull, not looking for actual advice. Plenty of people, myself included, have withdrawn from classes- but I am sure that few to none of us have enrolled in a class purposely to withdraw. That is the ethics issue the responders are having. You essentially are lying to whoever is giving you the scholarship. Plus, if these classes are ones that having waiting lists, you are cheating someone out of a spot in a class that they actually need so you can enroll it and drop it to get undeserved scholarship money.

Not to mention, your final transcripts go to your law school- 2+ W's looks real shady. Especially in the last semester. Law schools see that and know you are someone who was looking to slack off in their last semester.

Next time you want to ask advice, do it because you want advice. Not because you are looking to affirm your dishonesty-- dishonesty that even you were feeling shaky about. If you were 100% confident in what you were doing, you wouldn't have posted here.

EDIT: You did ask for ethics. You said "Would this cause any problems?" Ethics is a problem, especially in this industry.


Pissy? I didn't like the answer because they were not answers to my question. The "problems" I was concerned about is how it would look to law schools. All the replies, until the end, were about ethics, something I am unconcerned about because I KNOW it is not unethical. I'm not looking for opinions on ethics, so that can stop. And yes, I am not looking for advice. I am looking for opinions on how a withdrawal would affect my applications. I didn't enroll to withdrawal, but my adviser made me aware of my options and I am considering them.

What name calling and insults are you referring to? I called one poster asshole because he said, "If there is a crack in the system at said poorly run state school that allows you to get away with it, more power to you, but don't pretend like you aren't scamming the system." I'm not scamming anyone as I have earned a scholarship that allows me to withdraw. That comment was mean spirited and my response was not excessive.


If you ask a question that can only be answered based on speculation, you're going to get a lot of unhelpful answers.

PS. You're the one who got upset because someone disagreed with your intended actions. I don't think what you're proposing is unethical, but I don't think you take criticism very well either. :roll:


I got a couple of helpful posts, between all of the unnecessary posts. I didn't get upset, I only told them I am not interested about the ethics of the situation. If someone said don't do it because x, y, z, I would say ok, that sounds like a legitimate problem that could arise, maybe I wont! All I got was think of the starving children!!!

anyway, I'm over it.

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kn6542
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Re: withdrawal

Postby kn6542 » Thu Jan 14, 2010 7:58 pm

bissey wrote:
shadowfrost000 wrote:
bissey wrote:
JessicaTiger wrote:You asked a question. We responded. You didn't like the answer, so you get pissy.

It is pretty obvious by the name calling and insults you have thrown around that you are just looking for people to affirm the underhanded maneuver you are trying to pull, not looking for actual advice. Plenty of people, myself included, have withdrawn from classes- but I am sure that few to none of us have enrolled in a class purposely to withdraw. That is the ethics issue the responders are having. You essentially are lying to whoever is giving you the scholarship. Plus, if these classes are ones that having waiting lists, you are cheating someone out of a spot in a class that they actually need so you can enroll it and drop it to get undeserved scholarship money.

Not to mention, your final transcripts go to your law school- 2+ W's looks real shady. Especially in the last semester. Law schools see that and know you are someone who was looking to slack off in their last semester.

Next time you want to ask advice, do it because you want advice. Not because you are looking to affirm your dishonesty-- dishonesty that even you were feeling shaky about. If you were 100% confident in what you were doing, you wouldn't have posted here.

EDIT: You did ask for ethics. You said "Would this cause any problems?" Ethics is a problem, especially in this industry.


Pissy? I didn't like the answer because they were not answers to my question. The "problems" I was concerned about is how it would look to law schools. All the replies, until the end, were about ethics, something I am unconcerned about because I KNOW it is not unethical. I'm not looking for opinions on ethics, so that can stop. And yes, I am not looking for advice. I am looking for opinions on how a withdrawal would affect my applications. I didn't enroll to withdrawal, but my adviser made me aware of my options and I am considering them.

What name calling and insults are you referring to? I called one poster asshole because he said, "If there is a crack in the system at said poorly run state school that allows you to get away with it, more power to you, but don't pretend like you aren't scamming the system." I'm not scamming anyone as I have earned a scholarship that allows me to withdraw. That comment was mean spirited and my response was not excessive.


If you ask a question that can only be answered based on speculation, you're going to get a lot of unhelpful answers.

PS. You're the one who got upset because someone disagreed with your intended actions. I don't think what you're proposing is unethical, but I don't think you take criticism very well either. :roll:


I got a couple of helpful posts, between all of the unnecessary posts. I didn't get upset, I only told them I am not interested about the ethics of the situation. If someone said don't do it because x, y, z, I would say ok, that sounds like a legitimate problem that could arise, maybe I wont! All I got was think of the starving children!!!

anyway, I'm over it.

Actually, you asked people not to post opinions you didn't like or weren't interested in. That's not your prerogative.

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JazzOne
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Re: withdrawal

Postby JazzOne » Thu Jan 14, 2010 7:59 pm

Don't you think it's unethical to take advantage of loopholes in the system?

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kn6542
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Re: withdrawal

Postby kn6542 » Thu Jan 14, 2010 7:59 pm

bissey wrote:
kn6542 wrote:
bissey wrote:
JessicaTiger wrote:You asked a question. We responded. You didn't like the answer, so you get pissy.

It is pretty obvious by the name calling and insults you have thrown around that you are just looking for people to affirm the underhanded maneuver you are trying to pull, not looking for actual advice. Plenty of people, myself included, have withdrawn from classes- but I am sure that few to none of us have enrolled in a class purposely to withdraw. That is the ethics issue the responders are having. You essentially are lying to whoever is giving you the scholarship. Plus, if these classes are ones that having waiting lists, you are cheating someone out of a spot in a class that they actually need so you can enroll it and drop it to get undeserved scholarship money.

Not to mention, your final transcripts go to your law school- 2+ W's looks real shady. Especially in the last semester. Law schools see that and know you are someone who was looking to slack off in their last semester.

Next time you want to ask advice, do it because you want advice. Not because you are looking to affirm your dishonesty-- dishonesty that even you were feeling shaky about. If you were 100% confident in what you were doing, you wouldn't have posted here.

EDIT: You did ask for ethics. You said "Would this cause any problems?" Ethics is a problem, especially in this industry.


Pissy? I didn't like the answer because they were not answers to my question. The "problems" I was concerned about is how it would look to law schools. All the replies, until the end, were about ethics, something I am unconcerned about because I KNOW it is not unethical. I'm not looking for opinions on ethics, so that can stop. And yes, I am not looking for advice. I am looking for opinions on how a withdrawal would affect my applications. I didn't enroll to withdrawal, but my adviser made me aware of my options and I am considering them.

What name calling and insults are you referring to? I called one poster asshole because he said, "If there is a crack in the system at said poorly run state school that allows you to get away with it, more power to you, but don't pretend like you aren't scamming the system." I'm not scamming anyone as I have earned a scholarship that allows me to withdraw. That comment was mean spirited and my response was not excessive.



Well, presumably, if there is such a crack in the system, it is a poorly run school. And I'm not a dude.

It would have helped if you asked the question with all the relevant facts from the start.


It's not a crack, retard. Holy shit. Just leave.


if

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BriaTharen
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Re: withdrawal

Postby BriaTharen » Thu Jan 14, 2010 7:59 pm

bissey wrote:
JessicaTiger wrote:You asked a question. We responded. You didn't like the answer, so you get pissy.

It is pretty obvious by the name calling and insults you have thrown around that you are just looking for people to affirm the underhanded maneuver you are trying to pull, not looking for actual advice. Plenty of people, myself included, have withdrawn from classes- but I am sure that few to none of us have enrolled in a class purposely to withdraw. That is the ethics issue the responders are having. You essentially are lying to whoever is giving you the scholarship. Plus, if these classes are ones that having waiting lists, you are cheating someone out of a spot in a class that they actually need so you can enroll it and drop it to get undeserved scholarship money.

Not to mention, your final transcripts go to your law school- 2+ W's looks real shady. Especially in the last semester. Law schools see that and know you are someone who was looking to slack off in their last semester.

Next time you want to ask advice, do it because you want advice. Not because you are looking to affirm your dishonesty-- dishonesty that even you were feeling shaky about. If you were 100% confident in what you were doing, you wouldn't have posted here.

EDIT: You did ask for ethics. You said "Would this cause any problems?" Ethics is a problem, especially in this industry.


Pissy? I didn't like the answer because they were not answers to my question. The "problems" I was concerned about is how it would look to law schools. All the replies, until the end, were about ethics, something I am unconcerned about because I KNOW it is not unethical. I'm not looking for opinions on ethics, so that can stop. And yes, I am not looking for advice. I am looking for opinions on how a withdrawal would affect my applications. I didn't enroll to withdrawal, but my adviser made me aware of my options and I am considering them.

What name calling and insults are you referring to? I called one poster asshole because he said, "If there is a crack in the system at said poorly run state school that allows you to get away with it, more power to you, but don't pretend like you aren't scamming the system." I'm not scamming anyone as I have earned a scholarship that allows me to withdraw. That comment was mean spirited and my response was not excessive.


Again, until the 6-hour leeway came up, you asked if it would cause problems. You did not say "Will this cause ACADEMIC problems" or "Would this cause APPLICATION problems"- you said "any problems." And you now say you are concerned with how this will look to law schools- ethics are a huge issue with law school and applications, so whether or not you would like to admit it, ethics play a major part in the career and education you are pursing. Hell, before you can ever practice you need to pass C&F. Ethics matter. Ethical issues fits into the category of "any problems." As you have now talked about the 6-hour allowance, it as not as shady of a deal as it was before. But don't get mad at people because they were making arguments based on the only information you had given them.

BUT, this does make you a slacker. The leeway is there so you can take advantage of it if you need it academically. You don't need it. It is better to coast by taking an easy class or two that everyone in the school knows is a joke but still keep your full hours, than to have 2+ Ws on your record at the end of the semester.

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prezidentv8
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Re: withdrawal

Postby prezidentv8 » Thu Jan 14, 2010 8:00 pm

JazzOne wrote:Don't you think it's unethical to take advantage of loopholes in the system?



Not usually, but I'll give ya everyone's favorite answer: it depends.

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kn6542
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Re: withdrawal

Postby kn6542 » Thu Jan 14, 2010 8:01 pm

JazzOne wrote:Don't you think it's unethical to take advantage of loopholes in the system?

I think this guy actually deserves to lose his scholarship at Chico State, just for being a lazy dipshit, regardless of what the actual (and apparently difficult to articulate) facts of the situation really are.

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BriaTharen
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Re: withdrawal

Postby BriaTharen » Thu Jan 14, 2010 8:02 pm

JazzOne wrote:Don't you think it's unethical to take advantage of loopholes in the system?


Eh, yeah- that's the argument the OP doesn't want to listen to because he "knows" it is not unethical.

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prezidentv8
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Re: withdrawal

Postby prezidentv8 » Thu Jan 14, 2010 8:04 pm

JessicaTiger wrote:
JazzOne wrote:Don't you think it's unethical to take advantage of loopholes in the system?


Eh, yeah- that's the argument the OP doesn't want to listen to because he "knows" it is not unethical.



Ummm....

I'd say it's more lazy and unethical to take spots in classes that you don't need. Negotiate out of it or take patty-cake classes with lots of open spots.

You facepalms aren't taking the moral high ground here. It's more like the foolish lowlands.

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summerstar
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Re: withdrawal

Postby summerstar » Thu Jan 14, 2010 8:04 pm

" No ethical dilemma here" ?! No. That is exactly what it is. And you know it, that's why you're nervous about it.

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bissey
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Re: withdrawal

Postby bissey » Thu Jan 14, 2010 8:04 pm

i don't think is unethical. also, it's 1 withdrawal. one thing though: i'm not a slacker. seriously, i have had between 1-3 jobs each semester for the past 7, and this semester is no different.

i'm done here. i feel like it was a grand waste of time for all involved. thanks for the replies, even if i disagreed or said it wasn't what i am looking for.

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bissey
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Re: withdrawal

Postby bissey » Thu Jan 14, 2010 8:05 pm

ok and just to add, i'm not "nervous" about the ethics. i wanted to know what law schools would think of a withdrawal.

peace.

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prezidentv8
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Re: withdrawal

Postby prezidentv8 » Thu Jan 14, 2010 8:07 pm

bissey wrote:i don't think is unethical. also, it's 1 withdrawal. one thing though: i'm not a slacker. seriously, i have had between 1-3 jobs each semester for the past 7, and this semester is no different.

i'm done here. i feel like it was a grand waste of time for all involved. thanks for the replies, even if i disagreed or said it wasn't what i am looking for.


I tried man, I'm pretty sure you're gettin flamed here though.

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summerstar
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Re: withdrawal

Postby summerstar » Thu Jan 14, 2010 8:08 pm

law school IS ethics to the Nth degree.

If it's just a matter of paper work/permissions, then go to your advisor and make it right. solved.

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bissey
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Re: withdrawal

Postby bissey » Thu Jan 14, 2010 8:09 pm

prezidentv8 wrote:
bissey wrote:i don't think is unethical. also, it's 1 withdrawal. one thing though: i'm not a slacker. seriously, i have had between 1-3 jobs each semester for the past 7, and this semester is no different.

i'm done here. i feel like it was a grand waste of time for all involved. thanks for the replies, even if i disagreed or said it wasn't what i am looking for.


I tried man, I'm pretty sure you're gettin flamed here though.


lol, thanks prezidentv8. i appreciate you coming through for me. you have been officially friended.

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BriaTharen
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Re: withdrawal

Postby BriaTharen » Thu Jan 14, 2010 8:10 pm

bissey wrote:ok and just to add, i'm not "nervous" about the ethics. i wanted to know what law schools would think of a withdrawal.

peace.


Withdrawals are more forgivable early in the academic career. Late, and last semester especially, doesn't look too good. Makes you look like, again, a lazy slacker. Common rule of thumb is 1 W early in your career is forgivable. 2, especially late, show a lack of commitment.

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kn6542
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Re: withdrawal

Postby kn6542 » Thu Jan 14, 2010 8:11 pm

bissey wrote:
prezidentv8 wrote:
bissey wrote:i don't think is unethical. also, it's 1 withdrawal. one thing though: i'm not a slacker. seriously, i have had between 1-3 jobs each semester for the past 7, and this semester is no different.

i'm done here. i feel like it was a grand waste of time for all involved. thanks for the replies, even if i disagreed or said it wasn't what i am looking for.


I tried man, I'm pretty sure you're gettin flamed here though.


lol, thanks prezidentv8. i appreciate you coming through for me. you have been officially friended.

How many times are you going to post in this thread after being done?

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prezidentv8
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Re: withdrawal

Postby prezidentv8 » Thu Jan 14, 2010 8:13 pm

--ImageRemoved--

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asfasdagdsfawe
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Re: withdrawal

Postby asfasdagdsfawe » Thu Jan 14, 2010 8:15 pm

OP, I know you are probably fed up with the question of moral permissibility here, but just to let you know, my opinion is that it is not unethical.


Edit: I'm actually surprised at how many people here hold deontological sentiments. I mean, I know its a law forum, but doesn't anyone agree that an appreciation of the law does not commit one to deontology?
Last edited by asfasdagdsfawe on Thu Jan 14, 2010 8:26 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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bissey
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Re: withdrawal

Postby bissey » Thu Jan 14, 2010 8:18 pm

kn6542: you insist on being a retard. i don't want you to think you aren't so i have to return and remind you.

retard.

prez: nice pic, lol

asfasdagdsfawe: thank you

tesoro
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Re: withdrawal

Postby tesoro » Thu Jan 14, 2010 8:19 pm

I'm going to ignore this silly argument and offer some anecdotal advice-

I did something similar. I withdrew from a bunch of classes my last semester of college, but they didn't show up on my transcript because I withdrew from them within the first week of school. I only needed 4 credits to graduate. I did it because I was not on a scholarship, and didn't want to waste money on inflating my GPA, since I had a job lined up by the beginning of the semester.

Anyway, I spent my last semester of college taking one class, drinking, gambling, and having nothing to show for it but a B- (lowest grade in college). I'm having no problem being admitted to target / just barely reach schools (T20-30). Therefore, my thought is that they don't give a fuck if you aren't productive during your last semester in school. While this won't hurt you, though, I bet it'd help you to have something meaningful on your resume during that time. I mostly didn't care at all because I had a sweet job lined up by January and never had any intent to apply to law school at that point in my life, so I saw it as my last hurrah.

So, in short, go ahead and drop the classes. Admissions committees won't care. At all.

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crysmissmichelle
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Re: withdrawal

Postby crysmissmichelle » Thu Jan 14, 2010 8:38 pm

If the school really allowed you a six credit "cushion" you wouldn't have to fake them out by first registering for the classes and then dropping them. . .I mean, the semester has barely begun, you are obviously, not "wanting to take" the classes as you said your plan is only to get around the rules of your scholarship. . . .at most schools classes don't even start until next week, right?

If you have so many posts on this website, it should be obvious to you that you're going to get more than you bargained for in responses when you post a question this skeezy.

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kn6542
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Re: withdrawal

Postby kn6542 » Thu Jan 14, 2010 8:43 pm

crysmissmichelle wrote:If the school really allowed you a six credit "cushion" you wouldn't have to fake them out by first registering for the classes and then dropping them.

Well, exactly. Since that little rule wasn't mentioned at first, I'm not even buying it.

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MC Southstar
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Re: withdrawal

Postby MC Southstar » Thu Jan 14, 2010 8:45 pm

JazzOne wrote:Don't you think it's unethical to take advantage of loopholes in the system?


It depends, but as a general rule? No. I don't think that taking advantage of loopholes is the unethical act, it could just be the means to achieving an ethical or unethical result.




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