How much do "hard" majors help?

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tesoro
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Re: How much do "hard" majors help?

Postby tesoro » Sun Jan 17, 2010 12:29 am

heh i remember choosing a UG university. I turned down GT and Carnegie Mellon for this reason. I also turned down UM @ ann arbor, but rather than the girl/guy ratio there I just couldnt see myself living in the relative obscurity that is middle america, especially as a native big city east coaster. Ended up choosing an expensive private city school with a nice 60/40 girl/guy ratio and a decent but not really touted engineering program. The curve was easy to beat and life was good :). By virtue of beating the curve and getting a good job, loans have been zero'd out really quickly too, so no real regrets heading the more expensive but easier route.

Heh I'm almost embarassed to say it, but my choice of law school is going to be for similarly shallow reasons.

I have no idea how you dudes who went to heavy tech schools did it, but major props for making it out with your sanity.

09042014
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Re: How much do "hard" majors help?

Postby 09042014 » Sun Jan 17, 2010 12:29 am

prezidentv8 wrote:
tesoro wrote:
prezidentv8 wrote:
Hah...also...lol @ $160k for an undergrad degree.


pretend the degree is free. you're still sentencing yourself for life to a shitty, mind-numbing career track unless you rise far above the rest of your class.


See that statement I don't agree with. You're just stuck in a regular job, maybe.


Agreed. There are tons of jobs that just require any college degree. In fact most jobs are like that. There aren't degrees in sales, office drone, etc etc.

In fact with good grades you could probably compete with people who have a undergrad business admin degree (excepting prestigious ones like warton).

But I think many liberal arts majors aren't very interested in practical careers, which is why the picked the major they did. The ones I knew either were planning grad school, law school, or had no career plans at all. I think the not having a career plan was the bigger hurtle.

But in the spirit of adding flame to the fire. Image

09042014
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Re: How much do "hard" majors help?

Postby 09042014 » Sun Jan 17, 2010 12:30 am

prezidentv8 wrote:
barrinmb wrote:the female engineers here are generally more dedicated/simply smarter than the majority of the guys.


Nothin sexier than a good lookin smart chick.


Flame. There is nothing sexy about female engineers.

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englawyer
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Re: How much do "hard" majors help?

Postby englawyer » Sun Jan 17, 2010 12:37 am

Desert Fox wrote:
prezidentv8 wrote:
barrinmb wrote:the female engineers here are generally more dedicated/simply smarter than the majority of the guys.


Nothin sexier than a good lookin smart chick.


Flame. There is nothing sexy about female engineers.


lol. engineering girls usually think they deserve around +3 on a 0-10 scale due to the ratio. average girls think they are 8, and anyone 7+ thinks they are god's gift to men.

tesoro
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Re: How much do "hard" majors help?

Postby tesoro » Sun Jan 17, 2010 12:46 am

Desert Fox wrote:
prezidentv8 wrote:
tesoro wrote:
prezidentv8 wrote:
Hah...also...lol @ $160k for an undergrad degree.


pretend the degree is free. you're still sentencing yourself for life to a shitty, mind-numbing career track unless you rise far above the rest of your class.


See that statement I don't agree with. You're just stuck in a regular job, maybe.


Agreed. There are tons of jobs that just require any college degree. In fact most jobs are like that. There aren't degrees in sales, office drone, etc etc.

In fact with good grades you could probably compete with people who have a undergrad business admin degree (excepting prestigious ones like warton).

But I think many liberal arts majors aren't very interested in practical careers, which is why the picked the major they did. The ones I knew either were planning grad school, law school, or had no career plans at all. I think the not having a career plan was the bigger hurtle.

But in the spirit of adding flame to the fire. Image



Ha I love the cartoon.

I'm done with the argument. I should have guessed that the main proponent for the other side had no relevant experience to justify that a "Regular job" is a perfectly fine place to be. Anybody who's worked a "Regular job" as a low-level paper pusher knows exactly how shitty it is. America needs people at all levels of the ladder, and I'm glad people are happy to direct their careers to the lower rungs.

09042014
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Re: How much do "hard" majors help?

Postby 09042014 » Sun Jan 17, 2010 12:48 am

englawyer wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
prezidentv8 wrote:
barrinmb wrote:the female engineers here are generally more dedicated/simply smarter than the majority of the guys.


Nothin sexier than a good lookin smart chick.


Flame. There is nothing sexy about female engineers.


lol. engineering girls usually think they deserve around +3 on a 0-10 scale due to the ratio. average girls think they are 8, and anyone 7+ thinks they are god's gift to men.


They are:

1)Weird as hell - so are male engineers so I guess I can't fault them, but they aren't even nerdy weird, they are just weird.

2)They are perpetually in long term relationships.
a)with some dude from high school in a different town
b)with different guys, but with barely a day of singlehood between relationships

A friend of mine has had a boyfriend the entire time I've met her, only she's changed like 5 times, and I've never once seen her single. I think turn around time is honestly 3 days.

3)Are surrounded by packs of enginerds engaging in a constant white knight battle for her honor.

If you want an intelligent sciency girl, go for girls in biology. They are less weird, and more available. Particularly during their senor year when they realize they aren't getting into med school.

tesoro
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Re: How much do "hard" majors help?

Postby tesoro » Sun Jan 17, 2010 12:53 am

Desert Fox wrote:They are:

1)Weird as hell - so are male engineers so I guess I can't fault them, but they aren't even nerdy weird, they are just weird.

2)They are perpetually in long term relationships.
a)with some dude from high school in a different town
b)with different guys, but with barely a day of singlehood between relationships

A friend of mine has had a boyfriend the entire time I've met her, only she's changed like 5 times, and I've never once seen her single. I think turn around time is honestly 3 days.

3)Are surrounded by packs of enginerds engaging in a constant white knight battle for her honor.

If you want an intelligent sciency girl, go for girls in biology. They are less weird, and more available. Particularly during their senor year when they realize they aren't getting into med school.


Oh #3. The "vultures." Witnessing this in college was my favorite part of the day.

My solution? Go for the communications chicks :D . There was no "+3" entitlement bullshit when you date outside of the engineering realm. I dated an engineering chick once here at work and boy howdy was I in for a surprise, it was as if she hated the very concept of having a good time.

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ApexChaser
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Re: How much do "hard" majors help?

Postby ApexChaser » Sun Jan 17, 2010 1:27 am

Desert Fox wrote:
englawyer wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
Flame. There is nothing sexy about female engineers.


lol. engineering girls usually think they deserve around +3 on a 0-10 scale due to the ratio. average girls think they are 8, and anyone 7+ thinks they are god's gift to men.


They are:

1)Weird as hell - so are male engineers so I guess I can't fault them, but they aren't even nerdy weird, they are just weird.

2)They are perpetually in long term relationships.
a)with some dude from high school in a different town
b)with different guys, but with barely a day of singlehood between relationships

A friend of mine has had a boyfriend the entire time I've met her, only she's changed like 5 times, and I've never once seen her single. I think turn around time is honestly 3 days.

3)Are surrounded by packs of enginerds engaging in a constant white knight battle for her honor.

If you want an intelligent sciency girl, go for girls in biology. They are less weird, and more available. Particularly during their senor year when they realize they aren't getting into med school.


+1
Good looking girls in engineering can be summed up in this axiom: In the land of the blind, the one-eyed (wo)man is [queen].

The girls are smart and good looking, but unattractive because they act like the hottest thing since the business major who got lost in the engineering building. :P

09042014
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Re: How much do "hard" majors help?

Postby 09042014 » Sun Jan 17, 2010 1:55 am

ApexChaser wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
englawyer wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
Flame. There is nothing sexy about female engineers.


lol. engineering girls usually think they deserve around +3 on a 0-10 scale due to the ratio. average girls think they are 8, and anyone 7+ thinks they are god's gift to men.


They are:

1)Weird as hell - so are male engineers so I guess I can't fault them, but they aren't even nerdy weird, they are just weird.

2)They are perpetually in long term relationships.
a)with some dude from high school in a different town
b)with different guys, but with barely a day of singlehood between relationships

A friend of mine has had a boyfriend the entire time I've met her, only she's changed like 5 times, and I've never once seen her single. I think turn around time is honestly 3 days.

3)Are surrounded by packs of enginerds engaging in a constant white knight battle for her honor.

If you want an intelligent sciency girl, go for girls in biology. They are less weird, and more available. Particularly during their senor year when they realize they aren't getting into med school.


+1
Good looking girls in engineering can be summed up in this axiom: In the land of the blind, the one-eyed (wo)man is [queen].

The girls are smart and good looking, but unattractive because they act like the hottest thing since the business major who got lost in the engineering building. :P


They aren't even good looking. There were about two girls I ever saw in the entire engineering college during my undergrad and both dropped into business after a year.

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BioEBear2010
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Re: How much do "hard" majors help?

Postby BioEBear2010 » Sun Jan 17, 2010 2:00 am

Desert Fox wrote:Flame. There is nothing sexy about female engineers.


Truth. I swear I saw one once, but have come to believe that it was a mirage.

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ApexChaser
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Re: How much do "hard" majors help?

Postby ApexChaser » Sun Jan 17, 2010 2:07 am

Desert Fox wrote:They aren't even good looking. There were about two girls I ever saw in the entire engineering college during my undergrad and both dropped into business after a year.


Damn... I just looked at your profile and saw UIUC. It's one of my considerations but you're killing me here. :P We had two or three that stayed the course and got all the attention. It's quite sad when an entire fluid mechanics class looks to the door for the blonde walking in.

09042014
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Re: How much do "hard" majors help?

Postby 09042014 » Sun Jan 17, 2010 2:16 am

ApexChaser wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:They aren't even good looking. There were about two girls I ever saw in the entire engineering college during my undergrad and both dropped into business after a year.


Damn... I just looked at your profile and saw UIUC. It's one of my considerations but you're killing me here. :P We had two or three that stayed the course and got all the attention. It's quite sad when an entire fluid mechanics class looks to the door for the blonde walking in.


I'm exaggerating a bit, but it was 85/15 in the college of engineering, but my major specifically was about 92/8.

The University as a whole has tons of girls, and the college of law is even if I recall.

The only two law students I met were two pretty attractive females who were cool.

After the T14, UIUC would have been my next choice for lawl school.

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prezidentv8
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Re: How much do "hard" majors help?

Postby prezidentv8 » Sun Jan 17, 2010 2:57 am

tesoro wrote:

Ha I love the cartoon.

I'm done with the argument. I should have guessed that the main proponent for the other side had no relevant experience to justify that a "Regular job" is a perfectly fine place to be. Anybody who's worked a "Regular job" as a low-level paper pusher knows exactly how shitty it is. America needs people at all levels of the ladder, and I'm glad people are happy to direct their careers to the lower rungs.



The cartoon was funny, but cmon, you're going to attack the guy who did what you are arguing in favor of and had a plan? And simply end the argument by attacking me on the grounds that all regular jobs suck and I somehow don't know this because I haven't been a paper pusher? That's the best you've got? And when I gave you credit for having a more difficult degree? Jeez, you're rough man.

All I hear is whining about people going to jobs that you don't like, when my whole argument was pointing to the fact that people have subjective preferences. You do realize what most of the world does for a living right? They sweat their balls off every day, in unsafe conditions, and get beat to hell by their job in the process. Not like most law students have any kind of a clue, because they generally come from some pretty privileged backgrounds. If paper pusher actually sounds that bad to you, I invite you to walk a day in another person's shoes. Maybe ask these guys about how rough work could actually be, and what real difficulty actually is, and you'll learn that life's pretty damn good:

Image

And besides, just like no degree entitles you to anything, nobody in America is doomed to any particular sentence of misery by virtue of having a particular college degree (barring significant debt). See my post above about how my classmates with cupcake majors were doing in this economy, from a virtually unknown school. Now are some majors a bad financial investment? Maybe. But financial reasons alone are not how individuals make decisions in the real world.

For example, you could not pay me enough to take up engineering (well, you could, but it would be much more than anyone was willing to pay). On the other hand, 50k a year working public interest law with good LRAP? Sounds awesome. I could do that for a long ass time. Some people feel similarly about being cops, social workers, whatever. Some feel the same way about working in the restaurant business, or - dare I say it - HR. Or even <gasp> retail.

I got a buddy who loves insurance, a buddy who loves accounting, and a bunch who are cops. None majored in anything particularly hard, and they seem pretty satisfied with life to me. Heck, you should check out the people with nursing degrees. They're doing what they absolutely love AND kicking the hell out of the engineers on the pay scale too. I even have a friend who got an econ degree but wants to work construction for a while. There is nothing wrong with this.

The only reason liberal arts degree = shitty job to you, is the same reason engineering = shitty job to me. Subjective preferences, which I have argued were a ginormous factor from the start, and which was my original point. So really, the liberal arts bashing gets very old, and there really is no reason for it. I'm sorry you had to suffer through a bunch of (aw, they must have been so hard!) math classes. But there really is no need to attack people for doing what they want to do. Check the pompousness at the door, please.
Last edited by prezidentv8 on Sun Jan 17, 2010 3:12 am, edited 1 time in total.

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prezidentv8
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Re: How much do "hard" majors help?

Postby prezidentv8 » Sun Jan 17, 2010 3:00 am

Desert Fox wrote:
ApexChaser wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:They aren't even good looking. There were about two girls I ever saw in the entire engineering college during my undergrad and both dropped into business after a year.


Damn... I just looked at your profile and saw UIUC. It's one of my considerations but you're killing me here. :P We had two or three that stayed the course and got all the attention. It's quite sad when an entire fluid mechanics class looks to the door for the blonde walking in.


I'm exaggerating a bit, but it was 85/15 in the college of engineering, but my major specifically was about 92/8.

The University as a whole has tons of girls, and the college of law is even if I recall.

The only two law students I met were two pretty attractive females who were cool.

After the T14, UIUC would have been my next choice for lawl school.


I had a class that was 14M-0F, with a male professor. You can imagine how the conversations got out of hand every time a female was mentioned.

ShiftyOne
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Re: How much do "hard" majors help?

Postby ShiftyOne » Sun Jan 17, 2010 3:21 am

Desert Fox wrote:
englawyer wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
prezidentv8 wrote:
Nothin sexier than a good lookin smart chick.


Flame. There is nothing sexy about female engineers.


lol. engineering girls usually think they deserve around +3 on a 0-10 scale due to the ratio. average girls think they are 8, and anyone 7+ thinks they are god's gift to men.


They are:

1)Weird as hell - so are male engineers so I guess I can't fault them, but they aren't even nerdy weird, they are just weird.

2)They are perpetually in long term relationships.
a)with some dude from high school in a different town
b)with different guys, but with barely a day of singlehood between relationships

A friend of mine has had a boyfriend the entire time I've met her, only she's changed like 5 times, and I've never once seen her single. I think turn around time is honestly 3 days.

3)Are surrounded by packs of enginerds engaging in a constant white knight battle for her honor.

If you want an intelligent sciency girl, go for girls in biology. They are less weird, and more available. Particularly during their senor year when they realize they aren't getting into med school.



Quote of the day right here. Its funny cause its true.

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somewhatwayward
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Re: How much do "hard" majors help?

Postby somewhatwayward » Mon Jan 18, 2010 8:25 am

Of the "soft" sciences which I studied (and don't regret studying) history and philosophy are probably hardest. Political science and sociology and communications get a bad rap because within those majors more people who are just "mediocre" can get a 2.0 and graduate in 4 years. But these majors are not a joke for people who are interested in them and do well.


what exactly is a communications major? we didn't have it at my school.

do people get PhDs in it and stuff?

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englawyer
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Re: How much do "hard" majors help?

Postby englawyer » Mon Jan 18, 2010 8:35 am

communications = journalism, marketing, etc. typical hw assignments are to create a press release or write a blog post

kasparov
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Re: How much do "hard" majors help?

Postby kasparov » Mon Jan 18, 2010 8:52 am

I'm suprised no one here has really touched on research methods. Proficiency in calculus and stats and in turn SPSS was a requirement for my soft science degree. I'm not saying it's the same as engineering, but empirical research isn't cakewalk either. You cant bullshit your way through the methods and results sections on your thesis.

Marisa5252
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Re: How much do "hard" majors help?

Postby Marisa5252 » Mon Jan 18, 2010 12:17 pm

tesoro wrote:I'm done with the argument. I should have guessed that the main proponent for the other side had no relevant experience to justify that a "Regular job" is a perfectly fine place to be. Anybody who's worked a "Regular job" as a low-level paper pusher knows exactly how shitty it is. America needs people at all levels of the ladder, and I'm glad people are happy to direct their careers to the lower rungs.



+1
This is why WE gets a boost for law admissions - people with WE have perspective. People who are coming straight from college cannot possibly understand working a 9-5 (or get excited future lawyers - a 7-9). Seriously - when I was in college I truly believed that you could love your job. You might appreciate what you're doing - but it will still suck. You will wake up in the morning and be angry at the world. I'm not even saying this to be condescending, it's just the truth and I know that I'm going to get blasted for it but: these "dream jobs" that everyone hopes to get out of college don't exist. They just don't.

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prezidentv8
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Re: How much do "hard" majors help?

Postby prezidentv8 » Mon Jan 18, 2010 2:15 pm

Marisa5252 wrote:
tesoro wrote:I'm done with the argument. I should have guessed that the main proponent for the other side had no relevant experience to justify that a "Regular job" is a perfectly fine place to be. Anybody who's worked a "Regular job" as a low-level paper pusher knows exactly how shitty it is. America needs people at all levels of the ladder, and I'm glad people are happy to direct their careers to the lower rungs.



+1
This is why WE gets a boost for law admissions - people with WE have perspective. People who are coming straight from college cannot possibly understand working a 9-5 (or get excited future lawyers - a 7-9). Seriously - when I was in college I truly believed that you could love your job. You might appreciate what you're doing - but it will still suck. You will wake up in the morning and be angry at the world. I'm not even saying this to be condescending, it's just the truth and I know that I'm going to get blasted for it but: these "dream jobs" that everyone hopes to get out of college don't exist. They just don't.


Fwiw, I never said anything about dream jobs. I said regular jobs. Yes, I'm talking about office monkeys, insurance salesmen, retail managers, cops, nurses, accountants, etc. Regular ass, non-glamorous jobs, and subjective preferences against engineering. I know this doesn't seem fathomable to you, but some of us were seriously not at all interested in engineering or the sciences.

And I'm not coming from some perspective involving rose-colored glasses. I have an underlying feeling that, as I've mentioned already, the reason people on here are so terrified of a regular job is because law students tend not to have had parents that perspired at work, if you catch my drift. 9-5 in an office for most people would be a luxury, you know. Long and short of what I'm trying to say: (a) stop discounting subjective preferences (original, most important point); (b) stop jerking off engineering; (c) a liberal arts degree doesn't mean anything except that engineering or "hard science" jobs at least temporarily are out of reach; (d) OP probably should get a (deserved) boost; (e) normal ass jobs (not dream jobs - no one is talking about dream jobs) are really not that bad.




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