How much do "hard" majors help?

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drsomebody
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Re: How much do "hard" majors help?

Postby drsomebody » Sat Jan 16, 2010 9:25 pm

englawyer wrote: this totally screws those who bought into the "follow your dreams" idea and went to a midling private or state school


They're only screwed if their "dream" was to land an obscenely high paying job. There are plenty of people who have different dreams and aspirations. Hell, one of the smartest people I know from college works on a farm now. She doesn't make much money but she's incredibly happy with what she's doing. And you know what, I say more power to her.

Most of my friends who got liberal arts degrees (and this is about 6 years ago) are doing fine economically. Some of them had to work temporary or low-level jobs for a year or two after college but most everybody landed on their feet and a good portion of them actually enjoy what they do for a living.

I'll also add that I'm damn good at math and science (I have a 4.0 in my math and science courses, I don't have as high a GPA from my humanities classes). I just find the work to be terribly boring and I refuse to spend my life doing something unpleasant just so I can... I don't know what?... buy a bigger house?.. buy a faster car?

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prezidentv8
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Re: How much do "hard" majors help?

Postby prezidentv8 » Sat Jan 16, 2010 9:26 pm

drsomebody wrote:
englawyer wrote: this totally screws those who bought into the "follow your dreams" idea and went to a midling private or state school


They're only screwed if their "dream" was to land an obscenely high paying job. There are plenty of people who have different dreams and aspirations. Hell, one of the smartest people I know from college works on a farm now. She doesn't make much money but she's incredibly happy with what she's doing. And you know what, I say more power to her.

Most of my friends who got liberal arts degrees (and this is about 6 years ago) are doing fine economically. Some of them had to work temporary or low-level jobs for a year or two after college but most everybody landed on their feet and a good portion of them actually enjoy what they do for a living.

I'll also add that I'm damn good at math and science I have a 4.0 in my math and science courses, I don't have as high a GPA from my humanities classes). I just find the work to be terribly boring and I refuse to spend my life doing something unpleasant just so I can... I don't know what?... buy a bigger house?.. buy a faster car?


^Evidence of the existence of the type of people I mentioned earlier. Also, seems spot-on in outlook.

ScaredWorkedBored
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Re: How much do "hard" majors help?

Postby ScaredWorkedBored » Sat Jan 16, 2010 9:45 pm

drsomebody wrote:On a related note, Brian Leiter recently posted some excerpts from an interesting piece in Harper's that touches upon this very topic http://leiterreports.typepad.com/.


That's a good argument when you don't have to pay rent and student loans. The latter of which you have to pay whether you got excellent grades in a valuable degree or bad grades in a useless degree. Considering you live in a country with very little social safety net and at-will employment, I don't really see how the job is a secondary concern. No one *likes* the idea of going to work, but it's a necessary part of our condition.

Not that quality of life is irrelevent, but weighing one type of generic white collar work for another is pretty rediculous. Unless it's something morally objectionable or you can't physically do it because you weren't trained in whatever it is, it's interchangable.

The rest of this psuedo-anarchist, "I'll just go exist on a farm" crap was said better in Fight Club.

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prezidentv8
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Re: How much do "hard" majors help?

Postby prezidentv8 » Sat Jan 16, 2010 9:52 pm

ScaredWorkedBored wrote:
drsomebody wrote:On a related note, Brian Leiter recently posted some excerpts from an interesting piece in Harper's that touches upon this very topic http://leiterreports.typepad.com/.


That's a good argument when you don't have to pay rent and student loans. The latter of which you have to pay whether you got excellent grades in a valuable degree or bad grades in a useless degree. Considering you live in a country with very little social safety net and at-will employment, I don't really see how the job is a secondary concern. No one *likes* the idea of going to work, but it's a necessary part of our condition.

The rest of this psuedo-anarchist, "I'll just go exist on a farm" crap was said better in Fight Club.


I think we're overstating how hard it is to get a stable job over the long term as well.

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tinman
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Re: How much do "hard" majors help?

Postby tinman » Sat Jan 16, 2010 10:01 pm

englawyer wrote:
tinman wrote:
I was defending you before by agreeing that the lower GPAs typical to engineering majors should be more of a factor when engineers apply to law school, but I must say that I find this later posting asinine.

You seem to only value money. Such is a shallow life indeed, as far as I'm concerned. I majored in history and find studying history one of the most worthwhile endeavors we humans can undertake. I have much more natural talent in mathematics than in the humanities, but I choose to study history because I find it intrinsically valuable. I had no vocational goal in mind. I studied some science too, but again with no practical applications in mind. I don't regret it at all. Smart and resourceful people can always find gainful employment (of after taking a silly few hour exam gain admission to a top law school). And even if that were not so, I would rather be poor with some perspective and understanding of life and history than some engineering tool with money. We live in an affluent society. Absent some global catastrophe, we on this board will all live comfortable lives. I envy the people that are satisfied working simple jobs with their history majors. I consider the ambition that drives me to law school a vice and not a virtue. I would not look down on history majors. They will be your bosses some day.


there are a few problems here.

first, you have to be very resourceful and smart to find gainful employment. the silly few hour exam is a significant barrier to entry to many. in the grand scheme of things, a 160 is pretty hard to come by.

second, aside from the top 10 or so schools, where liberal arts majors have a chance at great jobs, the situation is bleak. i know quite a few folks who began their "careers" working retail or temp jobs after college. the engineering/biz/IT majors usually can get a decent job even from a no-name school.

third, aside from a select few fields (engineering, accounting, etc), the world is about who you know , not what you know. this totally screws those who bought into the "follow your dreams" idea and went to a midling private or state school because chances are they have no nepotistic connections.


OK, so maybe mediocre minds are better off studying engineering or accounting.

It is consistent with even your arguments, however, that people should study liberal arts if they either 1) are very bright, that is, capable of scoring above a 160 without too much effort, 2) go to a top ten school from which they can get a good job even with a frivolous degree, 3) have wealthy parents who don't mind spending money for the betterment of their children, or 4) are interested in educational intangibles regardless of their naked economic value.

I think you may agree with me that truly bright and talented people should do whatever they want. That may be engineering for some people. But most of the smartest people I know have zero interest in becoming engineers. In fact, many of the best schools in the country, such as Harvard, don't even have engineering undergraduate programs. And these board seems to be full of people with more than enough mental ability to complete engineering majors who decided instead that they were interested in history, or poetry, or whatever.

Also, many of the smartest people coming from the top law schools will not pursue high paying firm jobs; instead, they will work for the public interest. This may seem stupid to people that only know how to take derivatives. But such are the decisions of people who are potentially much smarter than you number crunchers: yes, even in math.

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prezidentv8
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Re: How much do "hard" majors help?

Postby prezidentv8 » Sat Jan 16, 2010 10:02 pm

tinman wrote:Also, many of the smartest people coming from the top law schools will not pursue high paying firm jobs; instead, they will work for the public interest. This may seem stupid to people that only know how to take derivatives.

Is it weird that I'm really attracted to both the financial sector and public interest work?

Off topic, sorry.

drsomebody
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Re: How much do "hard" majors help?

Postby drsomebody » Sat Jan 16, 2010 10:07 pm

ScaredWorkedBored wrote:
drsomebody wrote:On a related note, Brian Leiter recently posted some excerpts from an interesting piece in Harper's that touches upon this very topic http://leiterreports.typepad.com/.


That's a good argument when you don't have to pay rent and student loans. The latter of which you have to pay whether you got excellent grades in a valuable degree or bad grades in a useless degree. Considering you live in a country with very little social safety net and at-will employment, I don't really see how the job is a secondary concern. No one *likes* the idea of going to work, but it's a necessary part of our condition.

Not that quality of life is irrelevent, but weighing one type of generic white collar work for another is pretty rediculous. Unless it's something morally objectionable or you can't physically do it because you weren't trained in whatever it is, it's interchangable.

The rest of this psuedo-anarchist, "I'll just go exist on a farm" crap was said better in Fight Club.


The point is, in my experience, almost everybody I know who majored in one of these "useless" degrees about six years ago is doing fine now. Most of them are not pulling in six figures but they've all found decent jobs (yes, including one who actually works on a farm - she raises goats and vegetables and leads school tours, it's pretty freakin' cool) and many of them are very happy with their decisions. They all have reached a baseline that covers at the very least rent, loans, and retirement savings. After you're making enough to reach that baseline, the rest of it is just about personal quality of life decisions.

And there are plenty of people who do like the idea of going to work. Becoming one of those people seems a worthy goal to me. Others may value bigger houses, faster cars and more stuff. Again, it's about personal quality of life decisions.

Edit: Just saw this and wanted to +1
prezidentv8 wrote:I think we're overstating how hard it is to get a stable job over the long term as well.
Last edited by drsomebody on Sat Jan 16, 2010 10:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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stratocophic
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Re: How much do "hard" majors help?

Postby stratocophic » Sat Jan 16, 2010 10:09 pm

tinman wrote:
englawyer wrote:
tinman wrote:
I was defending you before by agreeing that the lower GPAs typical to engineering majors should be more of a factor when engineers apply to law school, but I must say that I find this later posting asinine.

You seem to only value money. Such is a shallow life indeed, as far as I'm concerned. I majored in history and find studying history one of the most worthwhile endeavors we humans can undertake. I have much more natural talent in mathematics than in the humanities, but I choose to study history because I find it intrinsically valuable. I had no vocational goal in mind. I studied some science too, but again with no practical applications in mind. I don't regret it at all. Smart and resourceful people can always find gainful employment (of after taking a silly few hour exam gain admission to a top law school). And even if that were not so, I would rather be poor with some perspective and understanding of life and history than some engineering tool with money. We live in an affluent society. Absent some global catastrophe, we on this board will all live comfortable lives. I envy the people that are satisfied working simple jobs with their history majors. I consider the ambition that drives me to law school a vice and not a virtue. I would not look down on history majors. They will be your bosses some day.


there are a few problems here.

first, you have to be very resourceful and smart to find gainful employment. the silly few hour exam is a significant barrier to entry to many. in the grand scheme of things, a 160 is pretty hard to come by.

second, aside from the top 10 or so schools, where liberal arts majors have a chance at great jobs, the situation is bleak. i know quite a few folks who began their "careers" working retail or temp jobs after college. the engineering/biz/IT majors usually can get a decent job even from a no-name school.

third, aside from a select few fields (engineering, accounting, etc), the world is about who you know , not what you know. this totally screws those who bought into the "follow your dreams" idea and went to a midling private or state school because chances are they have no nepotistic connections.


OK, so maybe mediocre minds are better off studying engineering or accounting.

It is consistent with even your arguments, however, that people should study liberal arts if they either 1) are very bright, that is, capable of scoring above a 160 without too much effort, 2) go to a top ten school from which they can get a good job even with a frivolous degree, 3) have wealthy parents who don't mind spending money for the betterment of their children, or 4) are interested in educational intangibles regardless of their naked economic value.

I think you may agree with me that truly bright and talented people should do whatever they want. That may be engineering for some people. But most of the smartest people I know have zero interest in becoming engineers. In fact, many of the best schools in the country, such as Harvard, don't even have engineering undergraduate programs. And these board seems to be full of people with more than enough mental ability to complete engineering majors who decided instead that they were interested in history, or poetry, or whatever.

Also, many of the smartest people coming from the top law schools will not pursue high paying firm jobs; instead, they will work for the public interest. This may seem stupid to people that only know how to take derivatives. But such are the decisions of people who are potentially much smarter than you number crunchers: yes, even in math.


http://www.seas.harvard.edu/audiences/p ... rgraduates

Teh Internets begs to differ with you.

Edit: While some of the best schools in the country may not have engineering programs, the vast majority do. Not sure, but I doubt that any of the T-20 undergrad schools lack an engineering program.
Last edited by stratocophic on Sat Jan 16, 2010 10:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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prezidentv8
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Re: How much do "hard" majors help?

Postby prezidentv8 » Sat Jan 16, 2010 10:11 pm

barrinmb wrote:
http://www.seas.harvard.edu/audiences/p ... rgraduates

Teh Internets begs to differ with you.


Is that a boathouse in the picture?!

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englawyer
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Re: How much do "hard" majors help?

Postby englawyer » Sat Jan 16, 2010 10:12 pm

tinman wrote:
OK, so maybe mediocre minds are better off studying engineering or accounting.

It is consistent with even your arguments, however, that people should study liberal arts if they either 1) are very bright, that is, capable of scoring above a 160 without too much effort, 2) go to a top ten school from which they can get a good job even with a frivolous degree, 3) have wealthy parents who don't mind spending money for the betterment of their children, or 4) are interested in educational intangibles regardless of their naked economic value.

I think you may agree with me that truly bright and talented people should do whatever they want. That may be engineering for some people. But most of the smartest people I know have zero interest in becoming engineers. In fact, many of the best schools in the country, such as Harvard, don't even have engineering undergraduate programs. And these board seems to be full of people with more than enough mental ability to complete engineering majors who decided instead that they were interested in history, or poetry, or whatever.

Also, many of the smartest people coming from the top law schools will not pursue high paying firm jobs; instead, they will work for the public interest. This may seem stupid to people that only know how to take derivatives. But such are the decisions of people who are potentially much smarter than you number crunchers: yes, even in math.


i 100% agree that liberal arts can be a good major for those that fall in the four categories you mentioned. but the merits and pitfalls of education have to be discussed for the masses. I am mostly thinking about the folks who do not fall into those categories, who are much more likely to land in a job/career that will be a dead-end job w/o much satisfaction. Just as attending a TTT law school, choosing liberal arts from a non-elite undergrad can be a bad choice for most people.

i am not sure where the animosity is coming from (ex "you number crunchers"). public interest seems like a noble pursuit and i don't think its a bad life choice at all.
Last edited by englawyer on Sat Jan 16, 2010 10:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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stratocophic
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Re: How much do "hard" majors help?

Postby stratocophic » Sat Jan 16, 2010 10:15 pm

prezidentv8 wrote:
barrinmb wrote:
http://www.seas.harvard.edu/audiences/p ... rgraduates

Teh Internets begs to differ with you.


Is that a boathouse in the picture?!


My God if it is I'll regret not going to an Ivy even more than I already do. Is that what they do after a long day of differential equations? *ponders*

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prezidentv8
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Re: How much do "hard" majors help?

Postby prezidentv8 » Sat Jan 16, 2010 10:15 pm

barrinmb wrote:
prezidentv8 wrote:
barrinmb wrote:
http://www.seas.harvard.edu/audiences/p ... rgraduates

Teh Internets begs to differ with you.


Is that a boathouse in the picture?!


My God if it is I'll regret not going to an Ivy even more than I already do. Is that what they do after a long day of differential equations? *ponders*


I do love me some rowing.

09042014
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Re: How much do "hard" majors help?

Postby 09042014 » Sat Jan 16, 2010 10:17 pm

barrinmb wrote:
prezidentv8 wrote:
barrinmb wrote:
http://www.seas.harvard.edu/audiences/p ... rgraduates

Teh Internets begs to differ with you.


Is that a boathouse in the picture?!


My God if it is I'll regret not going to an Ivy even more than I already do. Is that what they do after a long day of differential equations? *ponders*


Illinois has a sailing club, but I'm still not sure if Central Illinois has lakes.

jerjon2
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Re: How much do "hard" majors help?

Postby jerjon2 » Sat Jan 16, 2010 10:19 pm

Desert Fox wrote:
barrinmb wrote:
prezidentv8 wrote:
barrinmb wrote:
http://www.seas.harvard.edu/audiences/p ... rgraduates

Teh Internets begs to differ with you.


Is that a boathouse in the picture?!


My God if it is I'll regret not going to an Ivy even more than I already do. Is that what they do after a long day of differential equations? *ponders*


Illinois has a sailing club, but I'm still not sure if Central Illinois has lakes.


GT does too and I know Atlanta doesn't have lakes...

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tinman
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Re: How much do "hard" majors help?

Postby tinman » Sat Jan 16, 2010 10:19 pm

barrinmb wrote:
tinman wrote:
englawyer wrote:
tinman wrote:
I was defending you before by agreeing that the lower GPAs typical to engineering majors should be more of a factor when engineers apply to law school, but I must say that I find this later posting asinine.

You seem to only value money. Such is a shallow life indeed, as far as I'm concerned. I majored in history and find studying history one of the most worthwhile endeavors we humans can undertake. I have much more natural talent in mathematics than in the humanities, but I choose to study history because I find it intrinsically valuable. I had no vocational goal in mind. I studied some science too, but again with no practical applications in mind. I don't regret it at all. Smart and resourceful people can always find gainful employment (of after taking a silly few hour exam gain admission to a top law school). And even if that were not so, I would rather be poor with some perspective and understanding of life and history than some engineering tool with money. We live in an affluent society. Absent some global catastrophe, we on this board will all live comfortable lives. I envy the people that are satisfied working simple jobs with their history majors. I consider the ambition that drives me to law school a vice and not a virtue. I would not look down on history majors. They will be your bosses some day.


there are a few problems here.

first, you have to be very resourceful and smart to find gainful employment. the silly few hour exam is a significant barrier to entry to many. in the grand scheme of things, a 160 is pretty hard to come by.

second, aside from the top 10 or so schools, where liberal arts majors have a chance at great jobs, the situation is bleak. i know quite a few folks who began their "careers" working retail or temp jobs after college. the engineering/biz/IT majors usually can get a decent job even from a no-name school.

third, aside from a select few fields (engineering, accounting, etc), the world is about who you know , not what you know. this totally screws those who bought into the "follow your dreams" idea and went to a midling private or state school because chances are they have no nepotistic connections.


OK, so maybe mediocre minds are better off studying engineering or accounting.

It is consistent with even your arguments, however, that people should study liberal arts if they either 1) are very bright, that is, capable of scoring above a 160 without too much effort, 2) go to a top ten school from which they can get a good job even with a frivolous degree, 3) have wealthy parents who don't mind spending money for the betterment of their children, or 4) are interested in educational intangibles regardless of their naked economic value.

I think you may agree with me that truly bright and talented people should do whatever they want. That may be engineering for some people. But most of the smartest people I know have zero interest in becoming engineers. In fact, many of the best schools in the country, such as Harvard, don't even have engineering undergraduate programs. And these board seems to be full of people with more than enough mental ability to complete engineering majors who decided instead that they were interested in history, or poetry, or whatever.

Also, many of the smartest people coming from the top law schools will not pursue high paying firm jobs; instead, they will work for the public interest. This may seem stupid to people that only know how to take derivatives. But such are the decisions of people who are potentially much smarter than you number crunchers: yes, even in math.


http://www.seas.harvard.edu/audiences/p ... rgraduates

Teh Internets begs to differ with you.

Edit: While some of the best schools in the country may not have engineering programs, the vast majority do. Not sure, but I doubt that any of the T-20 undergrad schools lack an engineering program.


This engineering major at Harvard is relatively new then. And I was working at Harvard last year, so the fact that I was not aware that they had an official undergraduate major in engineering now says something about its profile at Harvard, I think. Uchicago doesn't have an engineering major now too, do they?

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Re: How much do "hard" majors help?

Postby 09042014 » Sat Jan 16, 2010 10:20 pm

jerjon2 wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
barrinmb wrote:
prezidentv8 wrote:
Is that a boathouse in the picture?!


My God if it is I'll regret not going to an Ivy even more than I already do. Is that what they do after a long day of differential equations? *ponders*


Illinois has a sailing club, but I'm still not sure if Central Illinois has lakes.


GT does too and I know Atlanta doesn't have lakes...


There was a rock climbing club as well. I went on a trip with them... to a corn silo climbing place.

jerjon2
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Re: How much do "hard" majors help?

Postby jerjon2 » Sat Jan 16, 2010 10:24 pm

Desert Fox wrote:There was a rock climbing club as well. I went on a trip with them... to a corn silo climbing place.


We have rock climbing too, but I'm pretty sure they go far away....
--LinkRemoved--

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prezidentv8
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Re: How much do "hard" majors help?

Postby prezidentv8 » Sat Jan 16, 2010 10:26 pm

Tangential question - I wonder how a fast-thinking elite athlete like Payton Manning would fare if his energies were dedicated to something academic. Kind of a curiosity.

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Re: How much do "hard" majors help?

Postby 09042014 » Sat Jan 16, 2010 10:27 pm

tinman wrote:
barrinmb wrote:
tinman wrote:
englawyer wrote:
there are a few problems here.

first, you have to be very resourceful and smart to find gainful employment. the silly few hour exam is a significant barrier to entry to many. in the grand scheme of things, a 160 is pretty hard to come by.

second, aside from the top 10 or so schools, where liberal arts majors have a chance at great jobs, the situation is bleak. i know quite a few folks who began their "careers" working retail or temp jobs after college. the engineering/biz/IT majors usually can get a decent job even from a no-name school.

third, aside from a select few fields (engineering, accounting, etc), the world is about who you know , not what you know. this totally screws those who bought into the "follow your dreams" idea and went to a midling private or state school because chances are they have no nepotistic connections.


OK, so maybe mediocre minds are better off studying engineering or accounting.

It is consistent with even your arguments, however, that people should study liberal arts if they either 1) are very bright, that is, capable of scoring above a 160 without too much effort, 2) go to a top ten school from which they can get a good job even with a frivolous degree, 3) have wealthy parents who don't mind spending money for the betterment of their children, or 4) are interested in educational intangibles regardless of their naked economic value.

I think you may agree with me that truly bright and talented people should do whatever they want. That may be engineering for some people. But most of the smartest people I know have zero interest in becoming engineers. In fact, many of the best schools in the country, such as Harvard, don't even have engineering undergraduate programs. And these board seems to be full of people with more than enough mental ability to complete engineering majors who decided instead that they were interested in history, or poetry, or whatever.

Also, many of the smartest people coming from the top law schools will not pursue high paying firm jobs; instead, they will work for the public interest. This may seem stupid to people that only know how to take derivatives. But such are the decisions of people who are potentially much smarter than you number crunchers: yes, even in math.


http://www.seas.harvard.edu/audiences/p ... rgraduates

Teh Internets begs to differ with you.

Edit: While some of the best schools in the country may not have engineering programs, the vast majority do. Not sure, but I doubt that any of the T-20 undergrad schools lack an engineering program.


This engineering major at Harvard is relatively new then. And I was working at Harvard last year, so the fact that I was not aware that they had an official undergraduate major in engineering now says something about its profile at Harvard, I think. Uchicago doesn't have an engineering major now too, do they?


It's profile at Harvard sucks because Harvard's engineering program is a joke. Anyone with the ability to get into Harvard would go to MIT, Stanford, Berkeley, Illinois, Michigan or CalTech.

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stratocophic
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Re: How much do "hard" majors help?

Postby stratocophic » Sat Jan 16, 2010 10:27 pm

Almost positive Harvard had one four years ago when I was considering applying. Doesn't appear UChicago does.

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tinman
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Re: How much do "hard" majors help?

Postby tinman » Sat Jan 16, 2010 10:27 pm

englawyer wrote:
tinman wrote:
OK, so maybe mediocre minds are better off studying engineering or accounting.

It is consistent with even your arguments, however, that people should study liberal arts if they either 1) are very bright, that is, capable of scoring above a 160 without too much effort, 2) go to a top ten school from which they can get a good job even with a frivolous degree, 3) have wealthy parents who don't mind spending money for the betterment of their children, or 4) are interested in educational intangibles regardless of their naked economic value.

I think you may agree with me that truly bright and talented people should do whatever they want. That may be engineering for some people. But most of the smartest people I know have zero interest in becoming engineers. In fact, many of the best schools in the country, such as Harvard, don't even have engineering undergraduate programs. And these board seems to be full of people with more than enough mental ability to complete engineering majors who decided instead that they were interested in history, or poetry, or whatever.

Also, many of the smartest people coming from the top law schools will not pursue high paying firm jobs; instead, they will work for the public interest. This may seem stupid to people that only know how to take derivatives. But such are the decisions of people who are potentially much smarter than you number crunchers: yes, even in math.


i 100% agree that liberal arts can be a good major for those that fall in the four categories you mentioned. but the merits and pitfalls of education have to be discussed for the masses. I am mostly thinking about the folks who do not fall into those categories, who are much more likely to land in a job/career that will be a dead-end job w/o much satisfaction. Just as attending a TTT law school, choosing liberal arts from a non-elite undergrad can be a bad choice for most people.

i am not sure where the animosity is coming from (ex "you number crunchers"). public interest seems like a noble pursuit and i don't think its a bad life choice at all.


OK. sorry about the slight animosity. I'm glad you think that liberal arts degrees are "valuable" for a lot of people, and I'm glad you think that public interest is a noble pursuit. I think I was grouping you with tesoro. He can answer for himself if he wishes, but it seems like he would think that pursuing public interest is stupid since people could make a lot more money in firm jobs. I just think it's a very limited view on the value of a life.

I do agree with you, however, that our society has been irresponsible in allowing youths to assume so much educational debt. The educational loan crises will come, I think.

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prezidentv8
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Re: How much do "hard" majors help?

Postby prezidentv8 » Sat Jan 16, 2010 10:29 pm

tinman wrote:I do agree with you, however, that our society has been irresponsible in allowing youths to assume so much educational debt. The educational loan crises will come, I think.


I will say this - I think a big problem is that society puts far too much emphasis on people going to college, just because.

09042014
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Joined: Wed Oct 14, 2009 10:47 pm

Re: How much do "hard" majors help?

Postby 09042014 » Sat Jan 16, 2010 10:30 pm

barrinmb wrote:Almost positive Harvard had one four years ago when I was considering applying. Doesn't appear UChicago does.


Engineeering at Harvard isn't new.

jerjon2
Posts: 168
Joined: Fri Oct 30, 2009 2:11 pm

Re: How much do "hard" majors help?

Postby jerjon2 » Sat Jan 16, 2010 10:36 pm

prezidentv8 wrote:
tinman wrote:I do agree with you, however, that our society has been irresponsible in allowing youths to assume so much educational debt. The educational loan crises will come, I think.


I will say this - I think a big problem is that society puts far too much emphasis on people going to college, just because.


I really agree with this. I think by and large that college is a good idea but it isn't for everyone. I also think its a bad idea to assume life altering and potentially crippling debt to spend some time finding yourself and I think far too many people are in this boat. I don't have a problem with liberal arts degrees but I think they are only useful in preparing someone for higher education whether it be professional school or graduate study in those same areas. Or if they want to teach the subject at high school or lower level or something like that.

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stratocophic
Posts: 2207
Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2009 6:24 pm

Re: How much do "hard" majors help?

Postby stratocophic » Sat Jan 16, 2010 10:37 pm

jerjon2 wrote:
prezidentv8 wrote:
tinman wrote:I do agree with you, however, that our society has been irresponsible in allowing youths to assume so much educational debt. The educational loan crises will come, I think.


I will say this - I think a big problem is that society puts far too much emphasis on people going to college, just because.


I really agree with this. I think by and large that college is a good idea but it isn't for everyone. I also think its a bad idea to assume life altering and potentially crippling debt to spend some time finding yourself and I think far too many people are in this boat. I don't have a problem with liberal arts degrees but I think they are only useful in preparing someone for higher education whether it be professional school or graduate study in those same areas. Or if they want to teach the subject at high school or lower level or something like that.


+1




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