heard back from my first law school...*sigh*

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kn6542
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Re: heard back from my first law school...*sigh*

Postby kn6542 » Tue Jan 12, 2010 9:48 pm

sibley wrote:
Also, I thought we'd decided mex isn't urm?

If you think mex isn't URM, what do you think IS URM?

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Kohinoor
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Re: heard back from my first law school...*sigh*

Postby Kohinoor » Tue Jan 12, 2010 9:51 pm

legends159 wrote:
YCrevolution wrote:
meowmeow wrote:I guess we will find out at the end of my cycle... :)

You should get into a T14 if you blanketed them. You were competitive at UVA as a URM, but by no means an auto-admit. Also, if you tell UVA that you will absolutely positively attend if admitted (obviously, you need to mean this), they may admit you.


with their ED extension actions really can speak louder than words.

FYI, I may be risk averse, but to all the people telling you to hold out, it's not their future they're gambling with.

cr

sibley
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Re: heard back from my first law school...*sigh*

Postby sibley » Tue Jan 12, 2010 11:14 pm

kn6542 wrote:
sibley wrote:
Also, I thought we'd decided mex isn't urm?

If you think mex isn't URM, what do you think IS URM?



I just remember seeing TLS kids shooting everyone and anyone who is not black or American Indian down when they claim that status. I'd call it URM, I think.

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chicoalto0649
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Re: heard back from my first law school...*sigh*

Postby chicoalto0649 » Tue Jan 12, 2010 11:26 pm

sibley wrote:
kn6542 wrote:
sibley wrote:
Also, I thought we'd decided mex isn't urm?

If you think mex isn't URM, what do you think IS URM?



I just remember seeing TLS kids shooting everyone and anyone who is not black or American Indian down when they claim that status. I'd call it URM, I think.



American Indian....you mean like my friend Roshni who moved from Mumbai to Columbus at age 12....or Native American, people like the Cherokee and such?

de5igual
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Re: heard back from my first law school...*sigh*

Postby de5igual » Wed Jan 13, 2010 8:12 am

chicoalto0649 wrote:
sibley wrote:
kn6542 wrote:
sibley wrote:
Also, I thought we'd decided mex isn't urm?

If you think mex isn't URM, what do you think IS URM?



I just remember seeing TLS kids shooting everyone and anyone who is not black or American Indian down when they claim that status. I'd call it URM, I think.



American Indian....you mean like my friend Roshni who moved from Mumbai to Columbus at age 12....or Native American, people like the Cherokee and such?


feather, not dot. Roshni is Asian

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LawandOrder
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Re: heard back from my first law school...*sigh*

Postby LawandOrder » Wed Jan 13, 2010 8:30 am

Way too much hoopla being made. Waitlisted because of terribe LSAT score. Nothing else going on.

sibley
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Re: heard back from my first law school...*sigh*

Postby sibley » Wed Jan 13, 2010 10:24 am

LawandOrder wrote:Way too much hoopla being made. Waitlisted because of terribe LSAT score. Nothing else going on.


URM bit wasn't to suggest something else was going on. Was personal curiousity.

Anyway, good luck op!

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84Sunbird2000
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Re: heard back from my first law school...*sigh*

Postby 84Sunbird2000 » Wed Jan 13, 2010 11:47 am

LawandOrder wrote:Way too much hoopla being made. Waitlisted because of terribe LSAT score. Nothing else going on.


Why are you such a jerk about LSAT scores? I've seen you do this before. Someone scores in the 88th percentile of test takers out of a pool of college graduates and you say it's terrible? You could be fair and say "That's a good score, but it might not be enough to get you in to these schools, though as a URM you are at least competitive". I think she does have a good shot because of her outstanding GPA at a school like UVA, and if they admit this recent ED crop like they normally do, she would get in even if she wasn't URM. (160plus and 3.85 has been a lock for ED recently).

sibley
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Re: heard back from my first law school...*sigh*

Postby sibley » Wed Jan 13, 2010 11:50 am

kwhitegocubs wrote:
LawandOrder wrote:Way too much hoopla being made. Waitlisted because of terribe LSAT score. Nothing else going on.


Why are you such a jerk about LSAT scores? I've seen you do this before. Someone scores in the 88th percentile of test takers out of a pool of college graduates and you say it's terrible? You could be fair and say "That's a good score, but it might not be enough to get you in to these schools, though as a URM you are at least competitive". I think she does have a good shot because of her outstanding GPA at a school like UVA, and if they admit this recent ED crop like they normally do, she would get in even if she wasn't URM. (160plus and 3.85 has been a lock for ED recently).


Just did a quick search of user's posts. +1.

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LawandOrder
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Re: heard back from my first law school...*sigh*

Postby LawandOrder » Wed Jan 13, 2010 12:05 pm

kwhitegocubs wrote:
LawandOrder wrote:Way too much hoopla being made. Waitlisted because of terribe LSAT score. Nothing else going on.


Why are you such a jerk about LSAT scores? I've seen you do this before. Someone scores in the 88th percentile of test takers out of a pool of college graduates and you say it's terrible? You could be fair and say "That's a good score, but it might not be enough to get you in to these schools, though as a URM you are at least competitive". I think she does have a good shot because of her outstanding GPA at a school like UVA, and if they admit this recent ED crop like they normally do, she would get in even if she wasn't URM. (160plus and 3.85 has been a lock for ED recently).


Because, simply, OP's LSAT score is insufficient considering the massive numbers of people who apply to UVA with significantly higher LSATs. You say that an 88th percentile is a "good score," but when you're talking about a law school that is among the top 10 in the nation, it isn't. It's far from being good enough. How many people take the LSAT each year? According to this thread: http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=38106 there are some 140,000 LSATs taken annually, including retakers. If we generously assume 40,000 are retakers, and for simplicity, we have a remaining 12% of test takers scoring higher than the OP did. 12,000 people. These students present a more compelling case for admission in the LSAT department than OP. They are competing for the 130 or so slots at UVA.

There are a couple of things that people can say in response in this thread.

The first is the route you're taking, which is what I'm going to call the "Snowflake" route. This approach involves telling the OP that their score isn't that bad and they are special! They are so different from all the other (more qualified) applicants that they certainly stand a chance! This raises their hopes and wastes their time. At best, you're staring at a waitlist which you will be taken off of and granted admission.

Another route is one I've taken and that I'm going to call the "Realistic" route. Realistically, the OP has a mediocre score and is attempting to get into one of the top law schools in the nation. Competition is fierce and LSN shows that very, very few students are chosen at UVA with LSATs so poor. I will grant that being in-state at Virgina confers a significant advantage, as UVA must admit a certain fraction (40% IIRC) from in state.

A third route would be helpful suggestions. Such as suggestions for retaking the LSAT. Improving even a couple of points and combined with the respectable GPA would give very good chances of admission.

Law School is purely a numbers game. They pay lip service to the importance of soft factors and the personal statement. But like all businesses, it boils down to the almighty dollar, and here, USNWR rankings which is arguably more powerful a motivator for admissions than money.

I don't care if you think I'm a dick here, or in other posts. Because I am, and can be. But I'm also just some guy on the internet, so it doesn't really matter what I think either. Part of the wonderfulness of forums like these is being able to collect the view points of many people from different backgrounds and experiences and use their advice along with a healthy dose of skepticism to figure out what might really happen.

And here, if the OP gets into Virginia it will be on the coat-tails of AA and Virginia residency, not based on actual merit compared to other applicants.

sibley
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Re: heard back from my first law school...*sigh*

Postby sibley » Wed Jan 13, 2010 12:13 pm

LawandOrder wrote:And here, if the OP gets into Virginia it will be on the coat-tails of AA and Virginia residency, not based on actual merit compared to other applicants.


I think most of us take it where we can get it.

meowmeow
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Re: heard back from my first law school...*sigh*

Postby meowmeow » Wed Jan 13, 2010 12:16 pm

kwhitegocubs wrote:
LawandOrder wrote:Way too much hoopla being made. Waitlisted because of terribe LSAT score. Nothing else going on.


Why are you such a jerk about LSAT scores? I've seen you do this before. Someone scores in the 88th percentile of test takers out of a pool of college graduates and you say it's terrible? You could be fair and say "That's a good score, but it might not be enough to get you in to these schools, though as a URM you are at least competitive". I think she does have a good shot because of her outstanding GPA at a school like UVA, and if they admit this recent ED crop like they normally do, she would get in even if she wasn't URM. (160plus and 3.85 has been a lock for ED recently).


Thanks, I know my score is NOT great, but its not TERRIBLE....

meowmeow
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Re: heard back from my first law school...*sigh*

Postby meowmeow » Wed Jan 13, 2010 12:18 pm

LawandOrder wrote:
kwhitegocubs wrote:
LawandOrder wrote:Way too much hoopla being made. Waitlisted because of terribe LSAT score. Nothing else going on.


Why are you such a jerk about LSAT scores? I've seen you do this before. Someone scores in the 88th percentile of test takers out of a pool of college graduates and you say it's terrible? You could be fair and say "That's a good score, but it might not be enough to get you in to these schools, though as a URM you are at least competitive". I think she does have a good shot because of her outstanding GPA at a school like UVA, and if they admit this recent ED crop like they normally do, she would get in even if she wasn't URM. (160plus and 3.85 has been a lock for ED recently).


Because, simply, OP's LSAT score is insufficient considering the massive numbers of people who apply to UVA with significantly higher LSATs. You say that an 88th percentile is a "good score," but when you're talking about a law school that is among the top 10 in the nation, it isn't. It's far from being good enough. How many people take the LSAT each year? According to this thread: http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=38106 there are some 140,000 LSATs taken annually, including retakers. If we generously assume 40,000 are retakers, and for simplicity, we have a remaining 12% of test takers scoring higher than the OP did. 12,000 people. These students present a more compelling case for admission in the LSAT department than OP. They are competing for the 130 or so slots at UVA.

There are a couple of things that people can say in response in this thread.

The first is the route you're taking, which is what I'm going to call the "Snowflake" route. This approach involves telling the OP that their score isn't that bad and they are special! They are so different from all the other (more qualified) applicants that they certainly stand a chance! This raises their hopes and wastes their time. At best, you're staring at a waitlist which you will be taken off of and granted admission.

Another route is one I've taken and that I'm going to call the "Realistic" route. Realistically, the OP has a mediocre score and is attempting to get into one of the top law schools in the nation. Competition is fierce and LSN shows that very, very few students are chosen at UVA with LSATs so poor. I will grant that being in-state at Virgina confers a significant advantage, as UVA must admit a certain fraction (40% IIRC) from in state.

A third route would be helpful suggestions. Such as suggestions for retaking the LSAT. Improving even a couple of points and combined with the respectable GPA would give very good chances of admission.

Law School is purely a numbers game. They pay lip service to the importance of soft factors and the personal statement. But like all businesses, it boils down to the almighty dollar, and here, USNWR rankings which is arguably more powerful a motivator for admissions than money.

I don't care if you think I'm a dick here, or in other posts. Because I am, and can be. But I'm also just some guy on the internet, so it doesn't really matter what I think either. Part of the wonderfulness of forums like these is being able to collect the view points of many people from different backgrounds and experiences and use their advice along with a healthy dose of skepticism to figure out what might really happen.

And here, if the OP gets into Virginia it will be on the coat-tails of AA and Virginia residency, not based on actual merit compared to other applicants.


yeah im actually not an AA and ill let you know how my cycle goes with such "poor" inadequate scores .... You need to relax a bit...

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LawandOrder
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Re: heard back from my first law school...*sigh*

Postby LawandOrder » Wed Jan 13, 2010 12:24 pm

meowmeow wrote:yeah im actually not an AA and ill let you know how my cycle goes with such "poor" inadequate scores .... You need to relax a bit...


AA describes policies that take race into account. You can benefit from AA without being black. I'm not here to start an AA debate though.

09042014
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Re: heard back from my first law school...*sigh*

Postby 09042014 » Wed Jan 13, 2010 12:25 pm

UVA let in several URM's will worse LSAT and Worse GPA. Either OP has a really terrible app, UVa filled up it's URM quota, or its yield protect.

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Grizz
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Re: heard back from my first law school...*sigh*

Postby Grizz » Wed Jan 13, 2010 12:25 pm

LawandOrder wrote:I don't care if you think I'm a dick here, or in other posts. Because I am, and can be. But I'm also just some guy on the internet, so it doesn't really matter what I think either.


Excellent summation of every internet forum. +1.

Marisa5252
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Re: heard back from my first law school...*sigh*

Postby Marisa5252 » Wed Jan 13, 2010 12:26 pm

YCrevolution wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
kingabraham3 wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:What the fuck, those numbers are not ED to UVA numbers. You'd be crazy to ED at UVA.

UVA is yield protecting you.

yield protecting with a 162? really?!


162/3.86 URM(mex)
VA resident


Probably.

You all are seriously overestimating the URM boost.


TITCR - Your URM boost will only get you so far with a 162. If you want UVA send in your ED.

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holydonkey
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Re: heard back from my first law school...*sigh*

Postby holydonkey » Wed Jan 13, 2010 12:29 pm

Desert Fox wrote:UVA let in several URM's will worse LSAT and Worse GPA. Either OP has a really terrible app, UVa filled up it's URM quota, or its yield protect.


+1

meowmeow
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Re: heard back from my first law school...*sigh*

Postby meowmeow » Wed Jan 13, 2010 12:34 pm

yeah like I sed, I dont want to go to UVA, so Im not stressing. I was just sad my first school I heard back from wasnt good news. Thanks everyone for the encouragment or from some, the reality check on my LSAT score ;)

JOThompson
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Re: heard back from my first law school...*sigh*

Postby JOThompson » Wed Jan 13, 2010 12:35 pm

OP, don't lose hope. I suspect that you'll wind up at a number of great schools if you apply broadly.

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Kohinoor
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Re: heard back from my first law school...*sigh*

Postby Kohinoor » Wed Jan 13, 2010 1:56 pm

Desert Fox wrote:UVA let in several URM's will worse LSAT and Worse GPA. Either OP has a really terrible app, UVa filled up it's URM quota, or its yield protect.

Perhaps her essay wasn't very good? I've always maintained that much of this URM bump is actually excellent essay writing.

09042014
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Re: heard back from my first law school...*sigh*

Postby 09042014 » Wed Jan 13, 2010 2:07 pm

Kohinoor wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:UVA let in several URM's will worse LSAT and Worse GPA. Either OP has a really terrible app, UVa filled up it's URM quota, or its yield protect.

Perhaps her essay wasn't very good? I've always maintained that much of this URM bump is actually excellent essay writing.


I think adcoms are more holistic with URMs but there is no way much of the URM bump is just excellent essay writing. Unless you happen to believe non URM people almost as a rule don't know how to write. Because the only time you see below median (in both categories) getting accepted is if they are URM.

sibley
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Re: heard back from my first law school...*sigh*

Postby sibley » Wed Jan 13, 2010 2:34 pm

Kohinoor wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:UVA let in several URM's will worse LSAT and Worse GPA. Either OP has a really terrible app, UVa filled up it's URM quota, or its yield protect.

Perhaps her essay wasn't very good? I've always maintained that much of this URM bump is actually excellent essay writing.



=D urms write better essays than rms

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NayBoer
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Re: heard back from my first law school...*sigh*

Postby NayBoer » Wed Jan 13, 2010 3:01 pm

Desert Fox wrote:UVA let in several URM's will worse LSAT and Worse GPA. Either OP has a really terrible app, UVa filled up it's URM quota, or its yield protect.
Yeah, they let in a bunch of people with middle-3 GPAs and LSATs below OP's. But it's possible that not all URMs get the same boost.

OP: In any case, don't ED unless UVA is a must. If you aren't yield protected, then how much will ED really help? At the very least, wait until closer to the ED deadline to see if more schools render verdicts.

rundoxierun
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Re: heard back from my first law school...*sigh*

Postby rundoxierun » Wed Jan 13, 2010 3:27 pm

This thread is funny... this confirms what I have said before, TLS severely overestimates urm boosts.




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