Question about T14 Tiers

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EdmundBurke23
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Question about T14 Tiers

Postby EdmundBurke23 » Sun Jan 10, 2010 6:27 am

I've seen a lot of posts on dividing up the T14 into tiers and what not, but I have some questions about UMich and UPenn:

HYS
----------
CCN
Berkeley
----------
Duke
NU
UVA
----------
Cornell
GULC

Would Penn and Mich be considered a separate Tier that's placed in between the CCN/Berk and Duke/NU/UVA Tier? A somewhat indepth answer would be greatly appreciated!

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im_blue
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Re: Question about T14 Tiers

Postby im_blue » Sun Jan 10, 2010 6:39 am

Your tiers are all wrong.

HYS
CCN
Michigan/Virginia/Penn/Berkeley
Duke/Northwestern/Cornell/GULC

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YCrevolution
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Re: Question about T14 Tiers

Postby YCrevolution » Sun Jan 10, 2010 10:54 pm

..

tumbleweed664
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Re: Question about T14 Tiers

Postby tumbleweed664 » Mon Jan 11, 2010 2:37 pm

YCrevolution wrote:
im_blue wrote:Your tiers are all wrong.

HYS
CCN
Michigan/Virginia/Penn/Berkeley
Duke/Northwestern/Cornell/GULC

TITCR.


This is the general breakdown used.

I've heard of putting GULC in its own bottom tier for a number of reasons (namely the huge class and tough home market), but I'm not sure that is necessary, and I've seen it grouped with D/N/C just as often.

lawyering
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Re: Question about T14 Tiers

Postby lawyering » Mon Jan 11, 2010 2:39 pm

Why is Virginia in a tier above Northwestern and Duke?

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mallard
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Re: Question about T14 Tiers

Postby mallard » Mon Jan 11, 2010 2:39 pm

lawyering wrote:Why is Virginia in a tier above Northwestern and Duke?


Because it's a better school?

09042014
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Re: Question about T14 Tiers

Postby 09042014 » Mon Jan 11, 2010 2:40 pm

The tiers also change depending on what market you want. NYU won't be better than UVA in the south. Cornell probably places as well as MVP in New York. You get the picture.

lawyering
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Re: Question about T14 Tiers

Postby lawyering » Mon Jan 11, 2010 2:40 pm

mallard wrote:
lawyering wrote:Why is Virginia in a tier above Northwestern and Duke?


Because it's a better school?



how informative ;)

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mallard
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Re: Question about T14 Tiers

Postby mallard » Mon Jan 11, 2010 2:41 pm

lawyering wrote:
mallard wrote:
lawyering wrote:Why is Virginia in a tier above Northwestern and Duke?


Because it's a better school?



how informative ;)


Because it places better. Because it has better students. Because it has better professors. I don't know, what else do you want?

lawyering
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Re: Question about T14 Tiers

Postby lawyering » Mon Jan 11, 2010 2:43 pm

mallard wrote:
lawyering wrote:
mallard wrote:
lawyering wrote:Why is Virginia in a tier above Northwestern and Duke?


i was just curious why it was in a separate tier given the 3 are tied for #10 currently in USNWR. this also holds for why chicago is in a tier above berkeley, but on that front i think i've already seen evidence of the benefits of chicago re. clerkships, among other things.

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Aeon
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Re: Question about T14 Tiers

Postby Aeon » Mon Jan 11, 2010 2:45 pm

lawyering wrote:Why is Virginia in a tier above Northwestern and Duke?

UVA has higher peer and attorney/judge assessments (ie: better reputation in the legal field). It also has a fantastic campus. :wink:

jnorsky
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Re: Question about T14 Tiers

Postby jnorsky » Mon Jan 11, 2010 2:50 pm

lawyering wrote:Why is Virginia in a tier above Northwestern and Duke?


Because although the USNEWS changes rankings from year to year to sell magazines, their is a hierarchy that is set up within the top 14 that can be seen in terms of employment placement, clerkships, academia, etc. Virginia is much more on par with Michigan and Penn in terms of all of these things. Duke and Northwestern are great schools but do not have the "pull" that MVP have had and will continue to have in the legal field. Also, just because UVA has a high student to faculty ratio and low expenditures does not put it on par with Duke and Northwestern. In terms of student body, employment, professors, it is a peer to Penn, Michigan and Berkeley and might even surpass all in certain aspects.

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NayBoer
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Re: Question about T14 Tiers

Postby NayBoer » Mon Jan 11, 2010 2:54 pm

This is where the mini-tiers originate:
http://www.prelawhandbook.com/law_schoo ... 00_present

G is always 14; NDC average 11-12; MVP average 8-9; CLS & NYU average 4-5. It's a rankings metric.

If it were just placement power, then we'd have to specify a target (which firms or employers) and a metric (raw number versus per capita; geographic versatility versus powerful regional placement). As it stands, HYS-CCN-MVPB-NDCG is a proxy for placement but it's based on USNWR history.

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NayBoer
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Re: Question about T14 Tiers

Postby NayBoer » Mon Jan 11, 2010 2:56 pm

jnorsky wrote:
lawyering wrote:Why is Virginia in a tier above Northwestern and Duke?


Because although the USNEWS changes rankings from year to year to sell magazines, their is a hierarchy that is set up within the top 14 that can be seen in terms of employment placement, clerkships, academia, etc. Virginia is much more on par with Michigan and Penn in terms of all of these things. Duke and Northwestern are great schools but do not have the "pull" that MVP have had and will continue to have in the legal field. Also, just because UVA has a high student to faculty ratio and low expenditures does not put it on par with Duke and Northwestern. In terms of student body, employment, professors, it is a peer to Penn, Michigan and Berkeley and might even surpass all in certain aspects.
You're over-thinking it. It's about USNWR average rank, and the degree to which the mini-tiering reflects firm placement or clerkship hiring is secondary to that.

lawyering
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Re: Question about T14 Tiers

Postby lawyering » Mon Jan 11, 2010 3:22 pm

thanks all!!




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