trying to convince my uncle the market IS that bad Forum

soda mayor · Post by **soda mayor** » Sat Jan 09, 2010 1:49 am

Got into fordham paying sticker and cardozo 32k annually. I've been leaning toward cardozo bc I reaallllyyy do not want to graduate with 150k in debt with a very high risk of unemployment or at least a low paying job. He keeps saying I should go to the best school I can get into but I think his thought process doesn't necessarily reflect the current job situation. How can I convince him that job prospects arent good? Can someone post an article maybe with a horror story or something that I can forward to him? Or maybe I'm wrong...

Post by **vanwinkle** » Sat Jan 09, 2010 1:51 am

$32k is basically free tuition, isn't it? I'd be sorely tempted to take that ITE...

EdmundBurke23 · Post by **EdmundBurke23** » Sat Jan 09, 2010 1:56 am

The best thing to do is refer people to statistical data, but it's kind of hard in this situation, since there's actually a dearth of information pertaining to law school placement data. I wish there were honest placement statistics that I could show to my family members well.

rw2264 · Post by **rw2264** » Sat Jan 09, 2010 1:59 am

vanwinkle wrote:$32k is basically free tuition, isn't it? I'd be sorely tempted to take that ITE...

no, tuition is 10k more than that, and that's not considering living expenses. i'd probably just go with fordham. the debt's gonna be crushing either way, might as well have a more useful degree

Dignan · Post by **Dignan** » Sat Jan 09, 2010 2:12 am

rw2264 wrote:
vanwinkle wrote:$32k is basically free tuition, isn't it? I'd be sorely tempted to take that ITE...
no, tuition is 10k more than that, and that's not considering living expenses. i'd probably just go with fordham. the debt's gonna be crushing either way, might as well have a more useful degree

Yeah, but the OP's debt would be $96K higher at Fordham. That's not trivial. There is a big difference between 90K of debt and 186K of debt. The former is rough but manageable; the latter is, as you put it, crushing.

I'm not saying that the OP should choose Cardozo w/$$$ over Fordham at sticker. I really don't know enough about the NYC market to make that call. But there is a real, life-affecting difference between 90K and 186K of debt.

facetious · Post by **facetious** » Sat Jan 09, 2010 2:15 am

soda mayor wrote:Got into fordham paying sticker and cardozo 32k annually. I've been leaning toward cardozo bc I reaallllyyy do not want to graduate with 150k in debt with a very high risk of unemployment or at least a low paying job. He keeps saying I should go to the best school I can get into but I think his thought process doesn't necessarily reflect the current job situation. How can I convince him that job prospects arent good? Can someone post an article maybe with a horror story or something that I can forward to him? Or maybe I'm wrong...

is the 'dozo $$ guaranteed over 3 years or gpa contingent?

jawsthegreat · Post by **jawsthegreat** » Sat Jan 09, 2010 2:29 am

Cardozo section stacks.

Trifles · Post by **Trifles** » Sat Jan 09, 2010 2:47 am

Why the f**k would you go 200k into debt for law school if you don't have to? If you really want to spend that extra 96k or whatever it is, you can probably think of a more profitable way to do it then on school that is ranked 30 instead of 49.

angioletto · Post by **angioletto** » Sat Jan 09, 2010 9:45 am

Why do you care what your uncle thinks? I have a lot of family that is CLUELESS when it comes to this stuff so I file their opinion in the back of my mind and move on.

ruleser · Post by **ruleser** » Sat Jan 09, 2010 9:59 am

angioletto wrote:Why do you care what your uncle thinks? I have a lot of family that is CLUELESS when it comes to this stuff so I file their opinion in the back of my mind and move on.

This. People have lots of opinions. Your job to do the research and have the informed one.

FuturehoyaLawya · Post by **FuturehoyaLawya** » Sat Jan 09, 2010 10:04 am

angioletto wrote:Why do you care what your uncle thinks? I have a lot of family that is CLUELESS when it comes to this stuff so I file their opinion in the back of my mind and move on.

this uncle might just care about his future and is concerned about job prospects. however, OP should do what makes most sense for his situation at the end of the day.

jm19 · Post by **jm19** » Sat Jan 09, 2010 10:24 am

My parents also do not understand the difficulty of choosing between money and better (?) employment prospects. They also don't understand why I'm taking a year off and withdrawing my applications instead of just deferring someplace.

I just tell them they'll have to trust me. It's nice that your uncle cares so much, but if you trust your own judgment, he should, also.

BiteyTLS · Post by **BiteyTLS** » Sat Jan 09, 2010 3:08 pm

Beware, as Cardozo like other lower-ranked schools, is notorious for offering large scholarship and then pulling them. I think you have to be top 20-30 percent to renew.

Paying sticker at Fordham is borderline suicidal. Fordham's own stats place cost of attendance at 70k a year. 210k in debt? Just talk to the "Princess of Fordham" here on TLS.

ps494 · Post by **ps494** » Sat Jan 09, 2010 3:23 pm

No matter what you say, people that don't know anything about the legal profession will always believe that a JD is a winning lottery ticket. As a result, they think debt is meaningless, because you will make enough money to pay it back. When you tell these people what it's really like out there, they dismiss you as simply being pessimistic.

legends159 · Post by **legends159** » Sat Jan 09, 2010 3:37 pm

There's been a lot of press about unemployment in the legal field and how lots of students are struggling to pay back their debt. I know that within my immediate family no one thinks a law degree is a golden ticket.

Though I can imagine parents still thinking, that could never happen to my child.

RoyalT · Post by **RoyalT** » Sat Jan 09, 2010 3:44 pm

BiteyTLS wrote:Beware, as Cardozo like other lower-ranked schools, is notorious for offering large scholarship and then pulling them. I think you have to be top 20-30 percent to renew.

Paying sticker at Fordham is borderline suicidal. Fordham's own stats place cost of attendance at 70k a year. 210k in debt? Just talk to the "Princess of Fordham" here on TLS.

ruh roo.

Flanker1067 · Post by **Flanker1067** » Sat Jan 09, 2010 3:44 pm

Trifles wrote:Why the f**k would you go 200k into debt for law school if you don't have to? If you really want to spend that extra 96k or whatever it is, you can probably think of a more profitable way to do it then on school that is ranked 30 instead of 49.

This is so true, unfortunately it is much, much easier to get that 96k for law school tuition then it is to invest/start a business/anything else.

Vincent Vega · Post by **Vincent Vega** » Sat Jan 09, 2010 3:48 pm

My future mother-in-law is pushing for me to go to Northern Illinois, where she works. Meanwhile, I have two T30 full rides. Do you think I am giving her opinion much thought?

Space_Cowboy · Post by **Space_Cowboy** » Sat Jan 09, 2010 3:55 pm

Cardozo will find a way to make you lose your scholarship.

Given that you're not getting money at a T14 or Fordham, choose between starting your career in NYC and being debt averse.

Space_Cowboy · Post by **Space_Cowboy** » Sat Jan 09, 2010 3:56 pm

Halibut6 wrote:My future mother-in-law is pushing for me to go to Northern Illinois, where she works. Meanwhile, I have two T30 full rides. Do you think I am giving her opinion much thought?

Its possible she doesn't want you marrying her daughter.

Vincent Vega · Post by **Vincent Vega** » Sat Jan 09, 2010 4:00 pm

Space_Cowboy wrote:
Halibut6 wrote:My future mother-in-law is pushing for me to go to Northern Illinois, where she works. Meanwhile, I have two T30 full rides. Do you think I am giving her opinion much thought?
Its possible she doesn't want you marrying her daughter.

Possible, but unlikely. I've always gotten along with her parents.

cubswin · Post by **cubswin** » Sat Jan 09, 2010 4:00 pm

Halibut6 wrote:My future mother-in-law is pushing for me to go to Northern Illinois, where she works. Meanwhile, I have two T30 full rides. Do you think I am giving her opinion much thought?

Oh man. You may be in for a lifetime of good advice.

Space_Cowboy · Post by **Space_Cowboy** » Sat Jan 09, 2010 4:01 pm

Flanker1067 wrote:
Trifles wrote:Why the f**k would you go 200k into debt for law school if you don't have to? If you really want to spend that extra 96k or whatever it is, you can probably think of a more profitable way to do it then on school that is ranked 30 instead of 49.
This is so true, unfortunately it is much, much easier to get that 96k for law school tuition then it is to invest/start a business/anything else.

I love how people act like there's no tradeoff with the $96k. In better days, Fordham was good for 30+% getting Big Law, while Cardozo was good for 10+%. ITE, substitute "Big Law," for "legal employment." If you can avoid the breadline, the $96k was well spent. However, I don't see how OP's choices are narrowed to Fordham or Cardozo. Plenty of other good schools that offer lower CoA and scholarships are out there, albeit not in NYC.

Space_Cowboy · Post by **Space_Cowboy** » Sat Jan 09, 2010 4:01 pm

Halibut6 wrote:
Space_Cowboy wrote:
Halibut6 wrote:My future mother-in-law is pushing for me to go to Northern Illinois, where she works. Meanwhile, I have two T30 full rides. Do you think I am giving her opinion much thought?
Its possible she doesn't want you marrying her daughter.
Possible, but unlikely. I've always gotten along with her parents.

Just kidding.....

Vincent Vega · Post by **Vincent Vega** » Sat Jan 09, 2010 4:05 pm

So was I....

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