trying to convince my uncle the market IS that bad

(Applications Advice, Letters of Recommendation . . . )
soda mayor
Posts: 32
Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2010 7:06 pm

trying to convince my uncle the market IS that bad

Postby soda mayor » Sat Jan 09, 2010 1:49 am

Got into fordham paying sticker and cardozo 32k annually. I've been leaning toward cardozo bc I reaallllyyy do not want to graduate with 150k in debt with a very high risk of unemployment or at least a low paying job. He keeps saying I should go to the best school I can get into but I think his thought process doesn't necessarily reflect the current job situation. How can I convince him that job prospects arent good? Can someone post an article maybe with a horror story or something that I can forward to him? Or maybe I'm wrong...

User avatar
vanwinkle
Posts: 9740
Joined: Sun Dec 21, 2008 3:02 am

Re: trying to convince my uncle the market IS that bad

Postby vanwinkle » Sat Jan 09, 2010 1:51 am

$32k is basically free tuition, isn't it? I'd be sorely tempted to take that ITE...

User avatar
EdmundBurke23
Posts: 223
Joined: Sat Dec 26, 2009 4:37 am

Re: trying to convince my uncle the market IS that bad

Postby EdmundBurke23 » Sat Jan 09, 2010 1:56 am

The best thing to do is refer people to statistical data, but it's kind of hard in this situation, since there's actually a dearth of information pertaining to law school placement data. I wish there were honest placement statistics that I could show to my family members well.

User avatar
rw2264
Posts: 314
Joined: Sat Nov 07, 2009 2:59 am

Re: trying to convince my uncle the market IS that bad

Postby rw2264 » Sat Jan 09, 2010 1:59 am

vanwinkle wrote:$32k is basically free tuition, isn't it? I'd be sorely tempted to take that ITE...


no, tuition is 10k more than that, and that's not considering living expenses. i'd probably just go with fordham. the debt's gonna be crushing either way, might as well have a more useful degree

User avatar
Dignan
Posts: 1110
Joined: Sun Feb 08, 2009 5:52 pm

Re: trying to convince my uncle the market IS that bad

Postby Dignan » Sat Jan 09, 2010 2:12 am

rw2264 wrote:
vanwinkle wrote:$32k is basically free tuition, isn't it? I'd be sorely tempted to take that ITE...


no, tuition is 10k more than that, and that's not considering living expenses. i'd probably just go with fordham. the debt's gonna be crushing either way, might as well have a more useful degree

Yeah, but the OP's debt would be $96K higher at Fordham. That's not trivial. There is a big difference between 90K of debt and 186K of debt. The former is rough but manageable; the latter is, as you put it, crushing.

I'm not saying that the OP should choose Cardozo w/$$$ over Fordham at sticker. I really don't know enough about the NYC market to make that call. But there is a real, life-affecting difference between 90K and 186K of debt.

User avatar
facetious
Posts: 196
Joined: Tue Jun 02, 2009 4:56 pm

Re: trying to convince my uncle the market IS that bad

Postby facetious » Sat Jan 09, 2010 2:15 am

soda mayor wrote:Got into fordham paying sticker and cardozo 32k annually. I've been leaning toward cardozo bc I reaallllyyy do not want to graduate with 150k in debt with a very high risk of unemployment or at least a low paying job. He keeps saying I should go to the best school I can get into but I think his thought process doesn't necessarily reflect the current job situation. How can I convince him that job prospects arent good? Can someone post an article maybe with a horror story or something that I can forward to him? Or maybe I'm wrong...


is the 'dozo $$ guaranteed over 3 years or gpa contingent?

User avatar
jawsthegreat
Posts: 792
Joined: Wed Dec 03, 2008 10:51 pm

Re: trying to convince my uncle the market IS that bad

Postby jawsthegreat » Sat Jan 09, 2010 2:29 am

Cardozo section stacks.

User avatar
Trifles
Posts: 159
Joined: Thu Oct 22, 2009 10:55 pm

Re: trying to convince my uncle the market IS that bad

Postby Trifles » Sat Jan 09, 2010 2:47 am

Why the f**k would you go 200k into debt for law school if you don't have to? If you really want to spend that extra 96k or whatever it is, you can probably think of a more profitable way to do it then on school that is ranked 30 instead of 49.

angioletto
Posts: 285
Joined: Sun Aug 23, 2009 8:14 pm

Re: trying to convince my uncle the market IS that bad

Postby angioletto » Sat Jan 09, 2010 9:45 am

Why do you care what your uncle thinks? I have a lot of family that is CLUELESS when it comes to this stuff so I file their opinion in the back of my mind and move on.

User avatar
ruleser
Posts: 870
Joined: Sun Dec 07, 2008 2:41 am

Re: trying to convince my uncle the market IS that bad

Postby ruleser » Sat Jan 09, 2010 9:59 am

angioletto wrote:Why do you care what your uncle thinks? I have a lot of family that is CLUELESS when it comes to this stuff so I file their opinion in the back of my mind and move on.

This. People have lots of opinions. Your job to do the research and have the informed one.

FuturehoyaLawya
Posts: 62
Joined: Sat Feb 09, 2008 11:10 am

Re: trying to convince my uncle the market IS that bad

Postby FuturehoyaLawya » Sat Jan 09, 2010 10:04 am

angioletto wrote:Why do you care what your uncle thinks? I have a lot of family that is CLUELESS when it comes to this stuff so I file their opinion in the back of my mind and move on.

this uncle might just care about his future and is concerned about job prospects. however, OP should do what makes most sense for his situation at the end of the day.

User avatar
jm19
Posts: 37
Joined: Mon Jul 13, 2009 9:02 pm

Re: trying to convince my uncle the market IS that bad

Postby jm19 » Sat Jan 09, 2010 10:24 am

My parents also do not understand the difficulty of choosing between money and better (?) employment prospects. They also don't understand why I'm taking a year off and withdrawing my applications instead of just deferring someplace.

I just tell them they'll have to trust me. It's nice that your uncle cares so much, but if you trust your own judgment, he should, also.

User avatar
BiteyTLS
Posts: 85
Joined: Thu Sep 18, 2008 1:37 am

Re: trying to convince my uncle the market IS that bad

Postby BiteyTLS » Sat Jan 09, 2010 3:08 pm

Beware, as Cardozo like other lower-ranked schools, is notorious for offering large scholarship and then pulling them. I think you have to be top 20-30 percent to renew.

Paying sticker at Fordham is borderline suicidal. Fordham's own stats place cost of attendance at 70k a year. 210k in debt? Just talk to the "Princess of Fordham" here on TLS.

ps494
Posts: 141
Joined: Tue Jan 05, 2010 4:50 pm

Re: trying to convince my uncle the market IS that bad

Postby ps494 » Sat Jan 09, 2010 3:23 pm

No matter what you say, people that don't know anything about the legal profession will always believe that a JD is a winning lottery ticket. As a result, they think debt is meaningless, because you will make enough money to pay it back. When you tell these people what it's really like out there, they dismiss you as simply being pessimistic.

legends159
Posts: 1090
Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2007 4:12 pm

Re: trying to convince my uncle the market IS that bad

Postby legends159 » Sat Jan 09, 2010 3:37 pm

There's been a lot of press about unemployment in the legal field and how lots of students are struggling to pay back their debt. I know that within my immediate family no one thinks a law degree is a golden ticket.

Though I can imagine parents still thinking, that could never happen to my child.

User avatar
RoyalT
Posts: 15
Joined: Wed Jul 16, 2008 9:57 pm

Re: trying to convince my uncle the market IS that bad

Postby RoyalT » Sat Jan 09, 2010 3:44 pm

BiteyTLS wrote:Beware, as Cardozo like other lower-ranked schools, is notorious for offering large scholarship and then pulling them. I think you have to be top 20-30 percent to renew.

Paying sticker at Fordham is borderline suicidal. Fordham's own stats place cost of attendance at 70k a year. 210k in debt? Just talk to the "Princess of Fordham" here on TLS.


ruh roo.

Flanker1067
Posts: 658
Joined: Tue Dec 29, 2009 12:47 pm

Re: trying to convince my uncle the market IS that bad

Postby Flanker1067 » Sat Jan 09, 2010 3:44 pm

Trifles wrote:Why the f**k would you go 200k into debt for law school if you don't have to? If you really want to spend that extra 96k or whatever it is, you can probably think of a more profitable way to do it then on school that is ranked 30 instead of 49.


This is so true, unfortunately it is much, much easier to get that 96k for law school tuition then it is to invest/start a business/anything else.

User avatar
Vincent Vega
Posts: 1182
Joined: Mon Oct 26, 2009 11:36 pm

Re: trying to convince my uncle the market IS that bad

Postby Vincent Vega » Sat Jan 09, 2010 3:48 pm

My future mother-in-law is pushing for me to go to Northern Illinois, where she works. Meanwhile, I have two T30 full rides. Do you think I am giving her opinion much thought?

User avatar
Space_Cowboy
Posts: 197
Joined: Wed Jun 24, 2009 12:52 am

Re: trying to convince my uncle the market IS that bad

Postby Space_Cowboy » Sat Jan 09, 2010 3:55 pm

Cardozo will find a way to make you lose your scholarship.

Given that you're not getting money at a T14 or Fordham, choose between starting your career in NYC and being debt averse.

User avatar
Space_Cowboy
Posts: 197
Joined: Wed Jun 24, 2009 12:52 am

Re: trying to convince my uncle the market IS that bad

Postby Space_Cowboy » Sat Jan 09, 2010 3:56 pm

Halibut6 wrote:My future mother-in-law is pushing for me to go to Northern Illinois, where she works. Meanwhile, I have two T30 full rides. Do you think I am giving her opinion much thought?


Its possible she doesn't want you marrying her daughter.

User avatar
Vincent Vega
Posts: 1182
Joined: Mon Oct 26, 2009 11:36 pm

Re: trying to convince my uncle the market IS that bad

Postby Vincent Vega » Sat Jan 09, 2010 4:00 pm

Space_Cowboy wrote:
Halibut6 wrote:My future mother-in-law is pushing for me to go to Northern Illinois, where she works. Meanwhile, I have two T30 full rides. Do you think I am giving her opinion much thought?


Its possible she doesn't want you marrying her daughter.


Possible, but unlikely. I've always gotten along with her parents.

cubswin
Posts: 618
Joined: Mon May 25, 2009 4:40 pm

Re: trying to convince my uncle the market IS that bad

Postby cubswin » Sat Jan 09, 2010 4:00 pm

Halibut6 wrote:My future mother-in-law is pushing for me to go to Northern Illinois, where she works. Meanwhile, I have two T30 full rides. Do you think I am giving her opinion much thought?


Oh man. You may be in for a lifetime of good advice.

User avatar
Space_Cowboy
Posts: 197
Joined: Wed Jun 24, 2009 12:52 am

Re: trying to convince my uncle the market IS that bad

Postby Space_Cowboy » Sat Jan 09, 2010 4:01 pm

Flanker1067 wrote:
Trifles wrote:Why the f**k would you go 200k into debt for law school if you don't have to? If you really want to spend that extra 96k or whatever it is, you can probably think of a more profitable way to do it then on school that is ranked 30 instead of 49.


This is so true, unfortunately it is much, much easier to get that 96k for law school tuition then it is to invest/start a business/anything else.


I love how people act like there's no tradeoff with the $96k. In better days, Fordham was good for 30+% getting Big Law, while Cardozo was good for 10+%. ITE, substitute "Big Law," for "legal employment." If you can avoid the breadline, the $96k was well spent. However, I don't see how OP's choices are narrowed to Fordham or Cardozo. Plenty of other good schools that offer lower CoA and scholarships are out there, albeit not in NYC.

User avatar
Space_Cowboy
Posts: 197
Joined: Wed Jun 24, 2009 12:52 am

Re: trying to convince my uncle the market IS that bad

Postby Space_Cowboy » Sat Jan 09, 2010 4:01 pm

Halibut6 wrote:
Space_Cowboy wrote:
Halibut6 wrote:My future mother-in-law is pushing for me to go to Northern Illinois, where she works. Meanwhile, I have two T30 full rides. Do you think I am giving her opinion much thought?


Its possible she doesn't want you marrying her daughter.


Possible, but unlikely. I've always gotten along with her parents.


Just kidding.....

User avatar
Vincent Vega
Posts: 1182
Joined: Mon Oct 26, 2009 11:36 pm

Re: trying to convince my uncle the market IS that bad

Postby Vincent Vega » Sat Jan 09, 2010 4:05 pm

So was I.... :shock:




Return to “Law School Admissions Forum”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: ashterlily, RamTitan and 7 guests