UVA eliminates/extends ED deadline

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Helmholtz
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Re: UVA eliminates/extends ED deadline

Postby Helmholtz » Thu Jan 07, 2010 1:15 pm

julesm2200 wrote:While this might make UVA move up, why would this cause Michigan to fall all the way to 11 or 13 like some people are predicting? I have a hard time believing that Duke, Cornell, or Northwestern are going to outrank Michigan this year. Correct me?


It won't. Hell, Michigan has a much longer turnaround for ED apps and you're forced to start in the summer, a huge blockade for a lot of people who might have gone with ED. UVA has never outranked Michigan in the 2000's, although Michigan has been higher than them five times in that span.

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Space_Cowboy
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Re: UVA eliminates/extends ED deadline

Postby Space_Cowboy » Thu Jan 07, 2010 1:17 pm

Helmholtz wrote:
julesm2200 wrote:While this might make UVA move up, why would this cause Michigan to fall all the way to 11 or 13 like some people are predicting? I have a hard time believing that Duke, Cornell, or Northwestern are going to outrank Michigan this year. Correct me?


It won't. Hell, Michigan has a much longer turnaround for ED apps and you're forced to start in the summer, a huge blockade for a lot of people who might have gone with ED. UVA has never outranked Michigan in the 2000's, although Michigan has been higher than them five times in that span.


UVA gets killed in the expenditures category. Lowest in the T20.

EDIT: Ok, UCLA is the lowest in the of schools down to WUSTL. (http://agoraphilia.blogspot.com/2009/07 ... n-law.html)
Last edited by Space_Cowboy on Thu Jan 07, 2010 1:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

holborn
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Re: UVA eliminates/extends ED deadline

Postby holborn » Thu Jan 07, 2010 1:17 pm

Helmholtz wrote:
julesm2200 wrote:While this might make UVA move up, why would this cause Michigan to fall all the way to 11 or 13 like some people are predicting? I have a hard time believing that Duke, Cornell, or Northwestern are going to outrank Michigan this year. Correct me?


It won't. Hell, Michigan has a much longer turnaround for ED apps and you're forced to start in the summer, a huge blockade for a lot of people who might have gone with ED. UVA has never outranked Michigan in the 2000's, although Michigan has been higher than them five times in that span.


I like that not everyone is predicting Michigan's downfall. However, what does Michigan's ED program have to do with it?

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Space_Cowboy
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Re: UVA eliminates/extends ED deadline

Postby Space_Cowboy » Thu Jan 07, 2010 1:19 pm

julesm2200 wrote:
Helmholtz wrote:
julesm2200 wrote:While this might make UVA move up, why would this cause Michigan to fall all the way to 11 or 13 like some people are predicting? I have a hard time believing that Duke, Cornell, or Northwestern are going to outrank Michigan this year. Correct me?


It won't. Hell, Michigan has a much longer turnaround for ED apps and you're forced to start in the summer, a huge blockade for a lot of people who might have gone with ED. UVA has never outranked Michigan in the 2000's, although Michigan has been higher than them five times in that span.


I like that not everyone is predicting Michigan's downfall. However, what does Michigan's ED program have to do with it?


Its ED program puts it at a competitive disadvantage from a numbers standpoint.

mango26
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Re: UVA eliminates/extends ED deadline

Postby mango26 » Thu Jan 07, 2010 1:20 pm

.
Last edited by mango26 on Thu Jan 07, 2010 1:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Helmholtz
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Re: UVA eliminates/extends ED deadline

Postby Helmholtz » Thu Jan 07, 2010 1:21 pm

Space_Cowboy wrote:
Helmholtz wrote:
julesm2200 wrote:While this might make UVA move up, why would this cause Michigan to fall all the way to 11 or 13 like some people are predicting? I have a hard time believing that Duke, Cornell, or Northwestern are going to outrank Michigan this year. Correct me?


It won't. Hell, Michigan has a much longer turnaround for ED apps and you're forced to start in the summer, a huge blockade for a lot of people who might have gone with ED. UVA has never outranked Michigan in the 2000's, although Michigan has been higher than them five times in that span.


UVA gets killed in the expenditures category. Lowest in the T20.


Yeah, I'm not really saying that Michigan is an objectively better school because of its USNWR ranking spot. I was just pointing to the fact that, frankly, Michigan's ED program sucks pretty bad compared to UVA even before UVA decided to blow the doors open with their March deadline. I don't see the newest change in the way they do things making that much of a dent.

jackgrf
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Re: UVA eliminates/extends ED deadline

Postby jackgrf » Thu Jan 07, 2010 1:22 pm

Space_Cowboy wrote:
Helmholtz wrote:
julesm2200 wrote:While this might make UVA move up, why would this cause Michigan to fall all the way to 11 or 13 like some people are predicting? I have a hard time believing that Duke, Cornell, or Northwestern are going to outrank Michigan this year. Correct me?


It won't. Hell, Michigan has a much longer turnaround for ED apps and you're forced to start in the summer, a huge blockade for a lot of people who might have gone with ED. UVA has never outranked Michigan in the 2000's, although Michigan has been higher than them five times in that span.


UVA gets killed in the expenditures category. Lowest in the T20.

EDIT: Ok, UCLA is the lowest in the of schools down to WUSTL. (http://agoraphilia.blogspot.com/2009/07 ... n-law.html)


UVA gets killed by expenditures and faculty:student ratio.

holborn
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Re: UVA eliminates/extends ED deadline

Postby holborn » Thu Jan 07, 2010 1:23 pm

Space_Cowboy wrote:Its ED program puts it at a competitive disadvantage from a numbers standpoint.


That makes sense. I think it was just the phrasing, as if his point about ED further validated his conclusion of 'no', that threw me. Michigan should really rethink their ED program.

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Space_Cowboy
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Re: UVA eliminates/extends ED deadline

Postby Space_Cowboy » Thu Jan 07, 2010 1:25 pm

julesm2200 wrote:
Space_Cowboy wrote:Its ED program puts it at a competitive disadvantage from a numbers standpoint.


That makes sense. I think it was just the phrasing, as if his point about ED further validated his conclusion of 'no', that threw me. Michigan should really rethink their ED program.


It seems to work for them. They need to fill those summer start slots (90). Plus, with ED candidates generally being the weaker crop of candidates its probably a good thing to ease them into law school with summer start.

holborn
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Re: UVA eliminates/extends ED deadline

Postby holborn » Thu Jan 07, 2010 1:29 pm

Space_Cowboy wrote:
julesm2200 wrote:
Space_Cowboy wrote:Its ED program puts it at a competitive disadvantage from a numbers standpoint.


That makes sense. I think it was just the phrasing, as if his point about ED further validated his conclusion of 'no', that threw me. Michigan should really rethink their ED program.


It seems to work for them. They need to fill those summer start slots (90). Plus, with ED candidates generally being the weaker crop of candidates its probably a good thing to ease them into law school with summer start.


I guess thats true. But they can also assign ppl to summer start, even if they didn't apply ED. They could always assign "weaker" candidates to summer start who would likely take the spot anyway (even if they didnt want summer) b/c it will be the best offer they get.

02082010
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Re: UVA eliminates/extends ED deadline

Postby 02082010 » Thu Jan 07, 2010 1:35 pm

Thank god they snagged me early RD.

02082010
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Re: UVA eliminates/extends ED deadline

Postby 02082010 » Thu Jan 07, 2010 2:02 pm

boo_pragmatism wrote:
hopefulundergrad wrote:Thank god they snagged me early RD.

Word. But srsly, where do we stand with all these ed kids? I would like some scholly money.


If they accept more ppl ED, therefore don't have to give out any/as much merit aid to those people, it only increases our chances for $$. Some URM 172 3.2 got the full Dean's scholly. They can throw me at least half-tuition, right?

02082010
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Re: UVA eliminates/extends ED deadline

Postby 02082010 » Thu Jan 07, 2010 2:13 pm

boo_pragmatism wrote:
hopefulundergrad wrote:
boo_pragmatism wrote:
hopefulundergrad wrote:Thank god they snagged me early RD.

Word. But srsly, where do we stand with all these ed kids? I would like some scholly money.


If they accept more ppl ED, therefore don't have to give out any/as much merit aid to those people, it only increases our chances for $$. Some URM 172 3.2 got the full Dean's scholly. They can throw me at least half-tuition, right?

One can only hope. Still, as you'll be attending Chicago, this discussion is moot.


We all have our dreams!

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CE2JD
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Re: UVA eliminates/extends ED deadline

Postby CE2JD » Thu Jan 07, 2010 2:19 pm

jackgrf wrote:
Space_Cowboy wrote:
Helmholtz wrote:
julesm2200 wrote:While this might make UVA move up, why would this cause Michigan to fall all the way to 11 or 13 like some people are predicting? I have a hard time believing that Duke, Cornell, or Northwestern are going to outrank Michigan this year. Correct me?


It won't. Hell, Michigan has a much longer turnaround for ED apps and you're forced to start in the summer, a huge blockade for a lot of people who might have gone with ED. UVA has never outranked Michigan in the 2000's, although Michigan has been higher than them five times in that span.


UVA gets killed in the expenditures category. Lowest in the T20.

EDIT: Ok, UCLA is the lowest in the of schools down to WUSTL. (http://agoraphilia.blogspot.com/2009/07 ... n-law.html)


UVA gets killed by expenditures and faculty:student ratio.


which is bullshit IMO

09042014
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Re: UVA eliminates/extends ED deadline

Postby 09042014 » Thu Jan 07, 2010 2:23 pm

CE2JD wrote:
jackgrf wrote:
UVA gets killed by expenditures and faculty:student ratio.


which is bullshit IMO


+1

Why is recklessly wasting tuition money a positive on USNWR? IMO low tuition should be a positive factor on USNWR.

02082010
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Re: UVA eliminates/extends ED deadline

Postby 02082010 » Thu Jan 07, 2010 2:25 pm

boo_pragmatism wrote:
hopefulundergrad wrote:We all have our dreams!

I'm still waiting for a gigantic comet to strike me dead.

BTW: when are you getting rid of that craptastic avatar?


Sunday. I made a bet with PKSebben on the UC/Florida game. New Orleans was a great time, minus the actual game.

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Helmholtz
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Re: UVA eliminates/extends ED deadline

Postby Helmholtz » Thu Jan 07, 2010 2:25 pm

CE2JD wrote:
jackgrf wrote:UVA gets killed by expenditures and faculty:student ratio.


which is bullshit IMO


Taking only peer/practitioner assessment scores and LSAT/GPA, top ten is:

Yale
Harvard
Stanford
Columbia
Chicago
NYU
UCB
Michigan
UVA
Penn

Does UVA get a boost when expenditures and faculty:student ratio aren't factors? Sure, one whole spot.

02082010
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Re: UVA eliminates/extends ED deadline

Postby 02082010 » Thu Jan 07, 2010 2:27 pm

Helmholtz wrote:
CE2JD wrote:
jackgrf wrote:UVA gets killed by expenditures and faculty:student ratio.


which is bullshit IMO


Taking only peer/practitioner assessment scores and LSAT/GPA, top ten is:

Yale
Harvard
Stanford
Columbia
Chicago
NYU
UCB
Michigan
UVA
Penn

Does UVA get a boost when expenditures and faculty:student ratio aren't factors? Sure, one whole spot.


Get out of here with your facts and figures! I may be attending UVA in the fall.

keg411
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Re: UVA eliminates/extends ED deadline

Postby keg411 » Thu Jan 07, 2010 2:31 pm

I don't get it. Is this a splitter-friendly decision? More fuel for my Feb. LSAT at the very least :) (even though UVA doesn't take sub3.0's, it's nice to dream; why can't Northwestern do this :( ).

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jcunni5
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Re: UVA eliminates/extends ED deadline

Postby jcunni5 » Thu Jan 07, 2010 2:32 pm

If u add lawyer/judge rating I think uva goes to 7 leitner or someone did rankings like that

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Helmholtz
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Re: UVA eliminates/extends ED deadline

Postby Helmholtz » Thu Jan 07, 2010 2:33 pm

jcunni5 wrote:If u add lawyer/judge rating I think uva goes to 7 leitner or someone did rankings like that


That includes lawyer/judge for the latest USNWR.

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CE2JD
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Re: UVA eliminates/extends ED deadline

Postby CE2JD » Thu Jan 07, 2010 2:34 pm

Helmholtz wrote:
CE2JD wrote:
jackgrf wrote:UVA gets killed by expenditures and faculty:student ratio.


which is bullshit IMO


Taking only peer/practitioner assessment scores and LSAT/GPA, top ten is:

Yale
Harvard
Stanford
Columbia
Chicago
NYU
UCB
Michigan
UVA
Penn

Does UVA get a boost when expenditures and faculty:student ratio aren't factors? Sure, one whole spot.


This is 100% false.

because i don't agree with it

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kurama20
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Re: UVA eliminates/extends ED deadline

Postby kurama20 » Thu Jan 07, 2010 2:41 pm

CE2JD wrote:
Helmholtz wrote:
CE2JD wrote:
jackgrf wrote:UVA gets killed by expenditures and faculty:student ratio.


which is bullshit IMO


Taking only peer/practitioner assessment scores and LSAT/GPA, top ten is:

Yale
Harvard
Stanford
Columbia
Chicago
NYU
UCB
Michigan
UVA
Penn

Does UVA get a boost when expenditures and faculty:student ratio aren't factors? Sure, one whole spot.


This is 100% false.

because i don't agree with it


If you go to lawyer/judge scores (which is what matters) it looks like this. lol as if LSAT/GPA matrix is as definitive in hiring as the schools legal prestige. The peer scores are even worse because they fluctuate madly based on who's hiring the "hottest" faculty--not on job placement or legal prestige. That's the thing I love most about US News--hilarious. What's most interesting is how consistently UVA has been at a 4.6 lawyer judge. It's been that way since 06, the school doesn't just have a higher lawyer/judge than NYU and Boalt, but it has had it consistently for years. NYU and Boalt are not stronger schools than Michigan and UVA at all if you look at real world prestige and placement metrics. Where they outdo Mich and UVA is with "hot" faculty, barely higher LSAT ranges, better faculty to student ratio, and faculty expenditures.

1.Yale 4.8
1.Harvard 4.8
1. Stanford 4.8
4.Columbia 4.6
4.Chicago 4.6
4.UVA 4.6
6.Michigan 4.5
6.NYU 4.5
6.Boalt 4.5
10.Duke 4.4
10.Penn 4.4
10.GULC 4.4
13.NU 4.3
13.Cornell 4.3

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=83424
Last edited by kurama20 on Thu Jan 07, 2010 2:45 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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HERetICal
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Re: UVA eliminates/extends ED deadline

Postby HERetICal » Thu Jan 07, 2010 2:42 pm

Anyone have any prediction for how this will affect VA resident applicants vs. non-resident applicants?

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Helmholtz
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Re: UVA eliminates/extends ED deadline

Postby Helmholtz » Thu Jan 07, 2010 2:46 pm

The results of lawyer/judge surveys (with their ~30% response rate) collected by a second rate news magazine probably isn't the best crutch to keep leaning on when trying to prove legal prestige.




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