UVA eliminates/extends ED deadline

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Unitas
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Re: UVA eliminates/extends ED deadline

Postby Unitas » Thu Jan 07, 2010 12:05 pm

I don’t understand the fear of this; it isn’t really a bother as of now. In fact it little affects any of us directly. It may help us by making people ED to UVA that otherwise wouldn’t and then withdraw applications from all other T14, thus lowering the total applications at each school. The one problem it could create for future applicants is more of the schools doing it, to keep up with one another. It would be irritating if 4-14 all had unlimited ED time.

The main reason I see UVA doing this is because of the influx in applications, but an overall same total number of applicants to all LSs. Meaning that without doing this their yield could plummet, by accepting qualified students who have no intention of going there. Most of us have applied to all of the T14, would we have in previous years? I wouldn’t have, but due to the gloom and doom prophecies/predictions I just went nuts, fee waivers helped. I don’t see this hurting my chances at any school besides possibly UVA. In fact I see it helping my chances at all other schools.

kareenak888
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Re: UVA eliminates/extends ED deadline

Postby kareenak888 » Thu Jan 07, 2010 12:10 pm

Hm....

the number of ED admits already is about 73.

I don't know what they are doing... But certainly predicting new ED applicants at this time is going to be hard... b/c if they accept the number of previous admits that had "lower" scores there medians are not going to be that tight.

Maybe they are trying to do a combo: increase the number that applied RD to commit to ED/increase app pool/decrease teh amount of money given out/etc

Also, another t14 messed around with the ED deadlines too. Georgetown revamped it's ED policy (I think htey extended it...)

jackgrf
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Re: UVA eliminates/extends ED deadline

Postby jackgrf » Thu Jan 07, 2010 12:12 pm

Kakarot wrote:I don’t understand the fear of this; it isn’t really a bother as of now. In fact it little affects any of us directly. It may help us by making people ED to UVA that otherwise wouldn’t and then withdraw applications from all other T14, thus lowering the total applications at each school. The one problem it could create for future applicants is more of the schools doing it, to keep up with one another. It would be irritating if 4-14 all had unlimited ED time.

The main reason I see UVA doing this is because of the influx in applications, but an overall same total number of applicants to all LSs. Meaning that without doing this their yield could plummet, by accepting qualified students who have no intention of going there. Most of us have applied to all of the T14, would we have in previous years? I wouldn’t have, but due to the gloom and doom prophecies/predictions I just went nuts, fee waivers helped. I don’t see this hurting my chances at any school besides possibly UVA. In fact I see it helping my chances at all other schools.


Pretty good post. I think people just fear the fact that UVA is probably less likely to offer merit/need-based aid now, considering I think ITE merit and need-based aid is probably the biggest concern for people (as evidenced by the influx of people applying to all of the t-14 in order to figure out which school is most cost-effective). Of course, if other T14 schools offer aid, then who cares.

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CE2JD
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Re: UVA eliminates/extends ED deadline

Postby CE2JD » Thu Jan 07, 2010 12:17 pm

jackgrf wrote:
Kakarot wrote:I don’t understand the fear of this; it isn’t really a bother as of now. In fact it little affects any of us directly. It may help us by making people ED to UVA that otherwise wouldn’t and then withdraw applications from all other T14, thus lowering the total applications at each school. The one problem it could create for future applicants is more of the schools doing it, to keep up with one another. It would be irritating if 4-14 all had unlimited ED time.

The main reason I see UVA doing this is because of the influx in applications, but an overall same total number of applicants to all LSs. Meaning that without doing this their yield could plummet, by accepting qualified students who have no intention of going there. Most of us have applied to all of the T14, would we have in previous years? I wouldn’t have, but due to the gloom and doom prophecies/predictions I just went nuts, fee waivers helped. I don’t see this hurting my chances at any school besides possibly UVA. In fact I see it helping my chances at all other schools.


Pretty good post. I think people just fear the fact that UVA is probably less likely to offer merit/need-based aid now, considering I think ITE merit and need-based aid is probably the biggest concern for people (as evidenced by the influx of people applying to all of the t-14 in order to figure out which school is most cost-effective). Of course, if other T14 schools offer aid, then who cares.


Ummm... you guys know that merit AND need-based aid are both largely driven by alumni contributions which are waaaaaay down across the board at all t14 schools, right? Not to mention, the endowments of schools like Harvard were ravaged by the collapse of the financial system. So if anything, you should be expecting LESS financial aid from all t14 schools, not just UVA.

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js87
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Re: UVA eliminates/extends ED deadline

Postby js87 » Thu Jan 07, 2010 12:21 pm

I wish Columbia would do this...

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Unitas
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Re: UVA eliminates/extends ED deadline

Postby Unitas » Thu Jan 07, 2010 12:24 pm

CE2JD wrote:
jackgrf wrote:
Kakarot wrote:I don’t understand the fear of this; it isn’t really a bother as of now. In fact it little affects any of us directly. It may help us by making people ED to UVA that otherwise wouldn’t and then withdraw applications from all other T14, thus lowering the total applications at each school. The one problem it could create for future applicants is more of the schools doing it, to keep up with one another. It would be irritating if 4-14 all had unlimited ED time.

The main reason I see UVA doing this is because of the influx in applications, but an overall same total number of applicants to all LSs. Meaning that without doing this their yield could plummet, by accepting qualified students who have no intention of going there. Most of us have applied to all of the T14, would we have in previous years? I wouldn’t have, but due to the gloom and doom prophecies/predictions I just went nuts, fee waivers helped. I don’t see this hurting my chances at any school besides possibly UVA. In fact I see it helping my chances at all other schools.


Pretty good post. I think people just fear the fact that UVA is probably less likely to offer merit/need-based aid now, considering I think ITE merit and need-based aid is probably the biggest concern for people (as evidenced by the influx of people applying to all of the t-14 in order to figure out which school is most cost-effective). Of course, if other T14 schools offer aid, then who cares.


Ummm... you guys know that merit AND need-based aid are both largely driven by alumni contributions which are waaaaaay down across the board at all t14 schools, right? Not to mention, the endowments of schools like Harvard were ravaged by the collapse of the financial system. So if anything, you should be expecting LESS financial aid from all t14 schools, not just UVA.


Hence why I ignored the financial aid side of the argument. Anyhow, UVA says they will give equal consideration to ED as RD, so I think any financial aid side of the arugment is a moot point.

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Re: UVA eliminates/extends ED deadline

Postby dk8 » Thu Jan 07, 2010 12:27 pm

annabell wrote:I don't understand how this will help the rankings. If only borderline students or students with no higher acceptances ED to UVA with this, how will this help their numbers. Traditionally ED admits have much lower numbers at all of these schools than RD admits (thus the "ED boost"). If they get a ton of 170s/3.5s ED, it will increase their yield but not their selectivity. Do they really expect a ton of 173/3.7s to ED when they have a shot of good money at Penn, Michigan, Duke, etc.? What about people who have already gotten into HYS...I doubt they'll be EDing to UVA with no guarantee of $$. Wouldn't giving more scholarship $$ to RD students actually pull good number students away from their other choices and better improve their numbers?


They could also get alot of ppl like me, 3.5/171, or high GPAers above the current median who know they are borderline and want to lock down an acceptance. Also, they can reject a bunch of the below median hopefuls that will ED and pray for a lucky acceptance, thus boosting their selectivity.

I'm seriously considering EDing now.

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Re: UVA eliminates/extends ED deadline

Postby jackgrf » Thu Jan 07, 2010 12:31 pm

CE2JD wrote:
jackgrf wrote:
Kakarot wrote:I don’t understand the fear of this; it isn’t really a bother as of now. In fact it little affects any of us directly. It may help us by making people ED to UVA that otherwise wouldn’t and then withdraw applications from all other T14, thus lowering the total applications at each school. The one problem it could create for future applicants is more of the schools doing it, to keep up with one another. It would be irritating if 4-14 all had unlimited ED time.

The main reason I see UVA doing this is because of the influx in applications, but an overall same total number of applicants to all LSs. Meaning that without doing this their yield could plummet, by accepting qualified students who have no intention of going there. Most of us have applied to all of the T14, would we have in previous years? I wouldn’t have, but due to the gloom and doom prophecies/predictions I just went nuts, fee waivers helped. I don’t see this hurting my chances at any school besides possibly UVA. In fact I see it helping my chances at all other schools.


Pretty good post. I think people just fear the fact that UVA is probably less likely to offer merit/need-based aid now, considering I think ITE merit and need-based aid is probably the biggest concern for people (as evidenced by the influx of people applying to all of the t-14 in order to figure out which school is most cost-effective). Of course, if other T14 schools offer aid, then who cares.


Ummm... you guys know that merit AND need-based aid are both largely driven by alumni contributions which are waaaaaay down across the board at all t14 schools, right? Not to mention, the endowments of schools like Harvard were ravaged by the collapse of the financial system. So if anything, you should be expecting LESS financial aid from all t14 schools, not just UVA.


i think schools that already had really large endowments (harvard, columbia, michigan, etc.) will still fork out a decent amount of financial aid. harvard may have been hit hard, but its endowment is still about 5 times larger than most other schools' and it probably has a lot of cushion room.

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Re: UVA eliminates/extends ED deadline

Postby CE2JD » Thu Jan 07, 2010 12:34 pm

jackgrf wrote:
CE2JD wrote:
jackgrf wrote:
Kakarot wrote:I don’t understand the fear of this; it isn’t really a bother as of now. In fact it little affects any of us directly. It may help us by making people ED to UVA that otherwise wouldn’t and then withdraw applications from all other T14, thus lowering the total applications at each school. The one problem it could create for future applicants is more of the schools doing it, to keep up with one another. It would be irritating if 4-14 all had unlimited ED time.

The main reason I see UVA doing this is because of the influx in applications, but an overall same total number of applicants to all LSs. Meaning that without doing this their yield could plummet, by accepting qualified students who have no intention of going there. Most of us have applied to all of the T14, would we have in previous years? I wouldn’t have, but due to the gloom and doom prophecies/predictions I just went nuts, fee waivers helped. I don’t see this hurting my chances at any school besides possibly UVA. In fact I see it helping my chances at all other schools.


Pretty good post. I think people just fear the fact that UVA is probably less likely to offer merit/need-based aid now, considering I think ITE merit and need-based aid is probably the biggest concern for people (as evidenced by the influx of people applying to all of the t-14 in order to figure out which school is most cost-effective). Of course, if other T14 schools offer aid, then who cares.


Ummm... you guys know that merit AND need-based aid are both largely driven by alumni contributions which are waaaaaay down across the board at all t14 schools, right? Not to mention, the endowments of schools like Harvard were ravaged by the collapse of the financial system. So if anything, you should be expecting LESS financial aid from all t14 schools, not just UVA.


i think schools that already had really large endowments (harvard, columbia, michigan, etc.) will still fork out a decent amount of financial aid. harvard may have been hit hard, but its endowment is still about 5 times larger than most other schools' and it probably has a lot of cushion room.


--LinkRemoved--

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Re: UVA eliminates/extends ED deadline

Postby rundoxierun » Thu Jan 07, 2010 12:36 pm

jackgrf wrote:
CE2JD wrote:
jackgrf wrote:
Kakarot wrote:I don’t understand the fear of this; it isn’t really a bother as of now. In fact it little affects any of us directly. It may help us by making people ED to UVA that otherwise wouldn’t and then withdraw applications from all other T14, thus lowering the total applications at each school. The one problem it could create for future applicants is more of the schools doing it, to keep up with one another. It would be irritating if 4-14 all had unlimited ED time.

The main reason I see UVA doing this is because of the influx in applications, but an overall same total number of applicants to all LSs. Meaning that without doing this their yield could plummet, by accepting qualified students who have no intention of going there. Most of us have applied to all of the T14, would we have in previous years? I wouldn’t have, but due to the gloom and doom prophecies/predictions I just went nuts, fee waivers helped. I don’t see this hurting my chances at any school besides possibly UVA. In fact I see it helping my chances at all other schools.


Pretty good post. I think people just fear the fact that UVA is probably less likely to offer merit/need-based aid now, considering I think ITE merit and need-based aid is probably the biggest concern for people (as evidenced by the influx of people applying to all of the t-14 in order to figure out which school is most cost-effective). Of course, if other T14 schools offer aid, then who cares.


Ummm... you guys know that merit AND need-based aid are both largely driven by alumni contributions which are waaaaaay down across the board at all t14 schools, right? Not to mention, the endowments of schools like Harvard were ravaged by the collapse of the financial system. So if anything, you should be expecting LESS financial aid from all t14 schools, not just UVA.


i think schools that already had really large endowments (harvard, columbia, michigan, etc.) will still fork out a decent amount of financial aid. harvard may have been hit hard, but its endowment is still about 5 times larger than most other schools' and it probably has a lot of cushion room.


Not how it works, schools usually are allowed to spend only a certain percentage of their endowments every year.

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Re: UVA eliminates/extends ED deadline

Postby JCougar » Thu Jan 07, 2010 12:37 pm

This is good, because it still gives me hope for the T14. I'm signed up for the February LSAT, and it still gives me time to apply if I somehow manage a 171. I doubt I can score that high under the pressure of actual test conditions, but it's still possible for me, and even more feasible for other applicants. So far, people like me that are locked out of the T14 with the numbers they have now but all of a sudden get a T14 LSAT score with the February test have no T14 options. The best we could have done without this is rush an application in to WUSTL, UIUC or Minnesota a few days before their March deadlines. There might not be a huge number of these kind of takers for the February test, but you can bet the ones that do are going to be spending the weekend of February 27th-28th polishing up their UVA app and pretty much being locked in there if they get accepted. Maybe they think the have a shot at raising their median to 171 this way.

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Re: UVA eliminates/extends ED deadline

Postby jackgrf » Thu Jan 07, 2010 12:40 pm

tkgrrett wrote:Not how it works, schools usually are allowed to spend only a certain percentage of their endowments every year.


link? also the other article did not mention cutting aid...nor did it counter the notion that harvard's endowment is still at least 5 times larger than most other schools'

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Re: UVA eliminates/extends ED deadline

Postby rv11 » Thu Jan 07, 2010 12:43 pm

5ky wrote:
jawsthegreat wrote:
5ky wrote:Wow, this thread certainly blew up. I wonder if they have any idea of the excitement/panic they've caused.


They probably did it because they were bored and wanted to freak out a bunch of people just to see what happened.


Well, it worked. UVA needs a Twitter. That's what all the cool kids have these days.


They already have a Twitter.

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Re: UVA eliminates/extends ED deadline

Postby CE2JD » Thu Jan 07, 2010 12:44 pm

jackgrf wrote:
tkgrrett wrote:Not how it works, schools usually are allowed to spend only a certain percentage of their endowments every year.


link? also the other article did not mention cutting aid...nor did it counter the notion that harvard's endowment is still at least 5 times larger than most other schools'


The amount of money a university can spend on financial aid is affected by the total amount allowed by the trustees of the university to be used for school operations, etc. This amount will necessarily vary per school, and some schools have indeed bumped up the amount used from the endowment during the recession. So, in reality you'd have to look at schools on a case-by-case basis.

That said, I know UVA directly uses the previous year's alumni contributions as a metric for how much financial aid will be given out. We were told this at ASW and orientation.

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Re: UVA eliminates/extends ED deadline

Postby annabell » Thu Jan 07, 2010 12:53 pm

But if they target mainly splitters with this, won't they simultaneously raise their 75ths and lower their 25ths? And thus not affect their medians. It will just be a bigger thread if they let in a glut of 172/3.5s and those respectively become their 75th lsats and their 25th gpas.

rv11
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Re: UVA eliminates/extends ED deadline

Postby rv11 » Thu Jan 07, 2010 12:58 pm

annabell wrote:But if they target mainly splitters with this, won't they simultaneously raise their 75ths and lower their 25ths? And thus not affect their medians. It will just be a bigger thread if they let in a glut of 172/3.5s and those respectively become their 75th lsats and their 25th gpas.


you're thinking average, not median

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Re: UVA eliminates/extends ED deadline

Postby Space_Cowboy » Thu Jan 07, 2010 12:58 pm

Kakarot wrote:I don’t understand the fear of this; it isn’t really a bother as of now. In fact it little affects any of us directly. It may help us by making people ED to UVA that otherwise wouldn’t and then withdraw applications from all other T14, thus lowering the total applications at each school. The one problem it could create for future applicants is more of the schools doing it, to keep up with one another. It would be irritating if 4-14 all had unlimited ED time.

The main reason I see UVA doing this is because of the influx in applications, but an overall same total number of applicants to all LSs. Meaning that without doing this their yield could plummet, by accepting qualified students who have no intention of going there. Most of us have applied to all of the T14, would we have in previous years? I wouldn’t have, but due to the gloom and doom prophecies/predictions I just went nuts, fee waivers helped. I don’t see this hurting my chances at any school besides possibly UVA. In fact I see it helping my chances at all other schools.


+1. Just prior to the December test, Dean Pless mentioned in the UIUC thread that applications (nationally) were up 8%, while the actual number of active applicants was up only 1%.

I think this new "ED" deadline helps my chances at other schools. I think in past years schools could count on splitters to act as "packing peanuts" to maintain the medians of a class' profile. However, if all the sub-3.5s/170+s have been sucked up by UVA or GULC, that makes this task a little harder when School X finds out (deposit deadlines are in April, right?) that they got dumped by an unexpectedly high number of quality applicants.

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Re: UVA eliminates/extends ED deadline

Postby Space_Cowboy » Thu Jan 07, 2010 12:59 pm

rv11 wrote:
annabell wrote:But if they target mainly splitters with this, won't they simultaneously raise their 75ths and lower their 25ths? And thus not affect their medians. It will just be a bigger thread if they let in a glut of 172/3.5s and those respectively become their 75th lsats and their 25th gpas.


you're thinking average, not median


No, she's thinking the way USNWR used to calculate the "median."

Magical USNWR median = average of 75th and 25th numbers.

They don't do this anymore. Schools now report the median number to the ABA.

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Re: UVA eliminates/extends ED deadline

Postby GeePee » Thu Jan 07, 2010 1:02 pm

annabell wrote:But if they target mainly splitters with this, won't they simultaneously raise their 75ths and lower their 25ths? And thus not affect their medians. It will just be a bigger thread if they let in a glut of 172/3.5s and those respectively become their 75th lsats and their 25th gpas.

Assuming medians are halfway between the 25th/75th is a fail. Using this "right angle" method, 75th's will be far closer to the median that the 25th.

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Re: UVA eliminates/extends ED deadline

Postby annabell » Thu Jan 07, 2010 1:04 pm

Space_Cowboy wrote:
rv11 wrote:
annabell wrote:But if they target mainly splitters with this, won't they simultaneously raise their 75ths and lower their 25ths? And thus not affect their medians. It will just be a bigger thread if they let in a glut of 172/3.5s and those respectively become their 75th lsats and their 25th gpas.


you're thinking average, not median


No, she's thinking the way USNWR used to calculate the "median."

Magical USNWR median = average of 75th and 25th numbers.

They don't do this anymore. Schools now report the median number to the ABA.


But if most of the people they let in are "outliers" or above at least one 75th% and below another, it won't really affect the true middle student of the number they let in....unless a lot of these people have around median in either LSAT or GPA and above 75ths in the other. However, why would someone like that ED to UVA and totally forgo the option of $$ from a peer school or possibly acceptance into CCN?

Sorry for all of the questions, this just has me confused, baffled, bewildered, and worried about my own chances.

jnorsky
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Re: UVA eliminates/extends ED deadline

Postby jnorsky » Thu Jan 07, 2010 1:08 pm

If you have a 171 + and a 3.92 + just ED to Virginia. Youll go to an awesome school, raise its ranking and in turn help me all at the same time. Thanks

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Re: UVA eliminates/extends ED deadline

Postby holborn » Thu Jan 07, 2010 1:09 pm

While this might make UVA move up, why would this cause Michigan to fall all the way to 11 or 13 like some people are predicting? I have a hard time believing that Duke, Cornell, or Northwestern are going to outrank Michigan this year. Correct me?

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Re: UVA eliminates/extends ED deadline

Postby Space_Cowboy » Thu Jan 07, 2010 1:09 pm

annabell wrote:
Space_Cowboy wrote:
rv11 wrote:
annabell wrote:But if they target mainly splitters with this, won't they simultaneously raise their 75ths and lower their 25ths? And thus not affect their medians. It will just be a bigger thread if they let in a glut of 172/3.5s and those respectively become their 75th lsats and their 25th gpas.


you're thinking average, not median


No, she's thinking the way USNWR used to calculate the "median."

Magical USNWR median = average of 75th and 25th numbers.

They don't do this anymore. Schools now report the median number to the ABA.


But if most of the people they let in are "outliers" or above at least one 75th% and below another, it won't really affect the true middle student of the number they let in....unless a lot of these people have around median in either LSAT or GPA and above 75ths in the other. However, why would someone like that ED to UVA and totally forgo the option of $$ from a peer school or possibly acceptance into CCN?

Sorry for all of the questions, this just has me confused, baffled, bewildered, and worried about my own chances.


Are you serious?

ps - Why do you care? Aren't in at Harvard?

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Space_Cowboy
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Re: UVA eliminates/extends ED deadline

Postby Space_Cowboy » Thu Jan 07, 2010 1:12 pm

julesm2200 wrote:While this might make UVA move up, why would this cause Michigan to fall all the way to 11 or 13 like some people are predicting? I have a hard time believing that Duke, Cornell, or Northwestern are going to outrank Michigan this year. Correct me?


People like making dire predictions. That said, Duke enrolls a smaller class of students (200) and is only behind Michigan by a point. its easier for them to raise median LSAT or GPA. If you look at LSN this year, they seem to be targeting a median of 170 (169 last year).

jackgrf
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Re: UVA eliminates/extends ED deadline

Postby jackgrf » Thu Jan 07, 2010 1:13 pm

julesm2200 wrote:While this might make UVA move up, why would this cause Michigan to fall all the way to 11 or 13 like some people are predicting? I have a hard time believing that Duke, Cornell, or Northwestern are going to outrank Michigan this year. Correct me?


I doubt it. Michigan's spending per capita is up because its building a new facility, so the expenditures' categories should go up. Someone also posted that Mich's applications are up by 20% this cycle, which means a lower acceptance rate.
Last edited by jackgrf on Thu Jan 07, 2010 1:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.




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