UVA eliminates/extends ED deadline

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Helmholtz
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Re: UVA eliminates/extends ED deadline

Postby Helmholtz » Thu Jan 07, 2010 3:20 am

jawsthegreat wrote:I'm not saying they will be a Top 5 school (very doubtful) but I could easily see it moving into the NYU/Berkley range.


Yeah, I don't see #5 happening anytime soon. Announcing something like that is retarded, especially when they turn around and lay on the bullshit about not placing that much weight on numbers, looking at the whole application, etc.

Jockin Jay-Z
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Re: UVA eliminates/extends ED deadline

Postby Jockin Jay-Z » Thu Jan 07, 2010 3:27 am

167/3.81 here (probably a few .0x higher once I send my fall grades in to LSAC). Is there any sense in EDing to UVa on March 1st? I expect to be rejected through the RD process--would EDing help my chances?

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Dignan
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Re: UVA eliminates/extends ED deadline

Postby Dignan » Thu Jan 07, 2010 3:28 am

kurama20 wrote:
Helmholtz wrote:
kurama20 wrote:LOL People are going to start calling UVA a "top 6" on here in the next 2 years. I gotta say this is kind of funny; it's amazing how much influence US News has on the schools and the applicants. Thank God it doesn't influence employers much.


Nah, it was HYSCCN even when Berk > Chi in the USNWR. Certainly would take more than two years before people started coining it HYSCCNV, which will probably never happen. I think people pay a much closer look to metrics such as fed clerkships and especially NLJ250 ranking than you may be giving them credit for.



You sure? Boalt was ranked freaking 13 a few years ago. If they could jump from 13 to 6 UVA can definitely go from 10 to 6 or even tie for 5 one day.

For whatever reason, Boalt has always been the most volatile school within the T14. For most of the years since USNWR started doing its rankings in 1987, Boalt was ranked between 6 and 8. Once in awhile, though, Boalt has a bad year and drops several spots. In 1996, for example, Boalt was ranked 8th. In 1997, they suddenly dropped to 12th. Then, in 1998, they were back at 8th.

A similar thing happened a few years back. After years of being ranked 7th/8th, they plummeted to 13th in 2005. By 2007, they were back to 8th, and now they are 6th. No other school exhibits this kind of volatility in the rankings. I'm not sure what accounts for it, but I don't think it's simply a matter of Boalt's recent gaming of the system. There's something about Boalt (the varying levels of state funding, maybe?) that makes it susceptible to getting bounced around in the USNWR rankings.
Last edited by Dignan on Thu Jan 07, 2010 3:29 am, edited 1 time in total.

legends159
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Re: UVA eliminates/extends ED deadline

Postby legends159 » Thu Jan 07, 2010 3:28 am

Boalt was 13th a few years ago because they were without a dean for 2 years. Not having a dean will likely do that to you.

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D. H2Oman
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Re: UVA eliminates/extends ED deadline

Postby D. H2Oman » Thu Jan 07, 2010 3:42 am

This will become a trend.

I've always wondered why schools even have deadlines, if an applicant wants to apply through a process that binds them to attend, that's great for the school. It helps the yield, plus allows them to lock in some numbers so it's easier to manipulate those medians, UVA style.

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5ky
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Re: UVA eliminates/extends ED deadline

Postby 5ky » Thu Jan 07, 2010 3:51 am

Wow, this thread certainly blew up. I wonder if they have any idea of the excitement/panic they've caused.

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Kohinoor
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Re: UVA eliminates/extends ED deadline

Postby Kohinoor » Thu Jan 07, 2010 3:53 am

According to my sources, UVA is poised to move into the T8 this year. The ripple effect is projected to push Michigan out of the T9 and possibly out of the T11.

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jawsthegreat
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Re: UVA eliminates/extends ED deadline

Postby jawsthegreat » Thu Jan 07, 2010 3:56 am

5ky wrote:Wow, this thread certainly blew up. I wonder if they have any idea of the excitement/panic they've caused.


They probably did it because they were bored and wanted to freak out a bunch of people just to see what happened.

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5ky
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Re: UVA eliminates/extends ED deadline

Postby 5ky » Thu Jan 07, 2010 4:00 am

jawsthegreat wrote:
5ky wrote:Wow, this thread certainly blew up. I wonder if they have any idea of the excitement/panic they've caused.


They probably did it because they were bored and wanted to freak out a bunch of people just to see what happened.


Well, it worked. UVA needs a Twitter. That's what all the cool kids have these days.

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Dignan
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Re: UVA eliminates/extends ED deadline

Postby Dignan » Thu Jan 07, 2010 4:05 am

Dwaterman86 wrote:This will become a trend.

I've always wondered why schools even have deadlines

I think that UVA and other schools have ED deadlines in order to encourage risk-averse applicants to apply. If applicants know, at the beginning of the process, that they have until March 1 (instead of December 1 or whatever) to apply ED, then many of those applicants will first see if they are accepted by other schools before they apply to UVA. In the months of January and February, some of those applicants will get accepted to other top schools (e.g., Berkeley, NYU, Chicago, Northwestern, Michigan), and then those applicants, if they bother to apply to UVA at all, would apply RD instead of ED. Basically, the late ED deadline, if known at the beginning of the application cycle, could cost UVA applicants who would have applied ED if they felt the pressure of an earlier deadline.

The more I think about it, the more I think that this little trick will work only once. For this year's cycle, UVA has the benefit of surprise, and they've essentially created two ED rushes: a rush for the first deadline (which everyone assumed was a hard deadline) and now a rush for a second deadline. If the 2011 applicants know all along that the ED deadline is March 1, then UVA is going to lose a lot of its potential ED admits to other schools.
Last edited by Dignan on Thu Jan 07, 2010 4:06 am, edited 1 time in total.

jackgrf
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Re: UVA eliminates/extends ED deadline

Postby jackgrf » Thu Jan 07, 2010 4:05 am

weird. is it true that uva's oci was worse than mbp's because of the dc-focus? I'm curious as to how job placement in the next couple yrs will affect the rankings too.

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thesealocust
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Re: UVA eliminates/extends ED deadline

Postby thesealocust » Thu Jan 07, 2010 4:08 am

CE2JD wrote:Wow... I wonder what prompted this change. :?

Are apps down at UVA?


d00d, I don't think they have to be down - I think UVA just realized it could game the ever loving shit out of the rankings. Think about it - it's a win/win for UVA and nervous students.

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jawsthegreat
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Re: UVA eliminates/extends ED deadline

Postby jawsthegreat » Thu Jan 07, 2010 4:09 am

jackgrf wrote:weird. is it true that uva's oci was worse than mbp's because of the dc-focus? I'm curious as to how job placement in the next couple yrs will affect the rankings too.


Some of the non 0Ls can answer this question better than i can, but I'm 99% sure the answer is a no.

Richard Rorty
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Re: UVA eliminates/extends ED deadline

Postby Richard Rorty » Thu Jan 07, 2010 4:20 am

kurama20 wrote:
NYU's specialty is calculating very high faculty expenditures. Someone actually broke it down very well in an old thread but I'm not sure exactly how it works. The other thing is spending a lot of money building new libraries and other facilities, which UVA is actually doing/did recently (and NYU and Boalt did a few years back as well).

You can also increase rank by finding ways to artificially increase your selectivity by messing with yield (say sending out a lot of fee waivers to people who have no chance, very akin to what UVA is doing with this change in ED policy, and similar to how Boalt's acceptance rate starting plummeting and favoring high GPA people. UVA has been doing this--it's easier to jump in GPA than LSAT). The other great way to do it is to hire hot new faculty. This is an excellent way to quickly increase the peer assessment scores, which are heavily influenced by who has been hiring the "hottest" new faculty. That will boost a school's rank very quickly. Actually the more I think about it UVA is doing exactly what NYU and Boalt have been doing in recent years. They are basically gaming the system, maybe even harder than NYU and Boalt did, so they can jump in the rankings.

...



I want to address something said earlier in this thread, on strategies to advance in the rankings:

I would NOT consider new construction and hiring hot young faculty to be "gaming the system." Sending out fee waivers to people with no shot may qualify as that, but better facilities and relevant faculty actually improve a law school in ways that we should care about.

So even if new construction and hiring of hot young faculty is pursued solely to advance in the USNWR rankings--an allegation of intention that I find rather dubious--this only identifies a potential upside of the ranking system.

slider
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Re: UVA eliminates/extends ED deadline

Postby slider » Thu Jan 07, 2010 11:04 am

Dignan wrote:
Dwaterman86 wrote:This will become a trend.

I've always wondered why schools even have deadlines

I think that UVA and other schools have ED deadlines in order to encourage risk-averse applicants to apply. If applicants know, at the beginning of the process, that they have until March 1 (instead of December 1 or whatever) to apply ED, then many of those applicants will first see if they are accepted by other schools before they apply to UVA. In the months of January and February, some of those applicants will get accepted to other top schools (e.g., Berkeley, NYU, Chicago, Northwestern, Michigan), and then those applicants, if they bother to apply to UVA at all, would apply RD instead of ED. Basically, the late ED deadline, if known at the beginning of the application cycle, could cost UVA applicants who would have applied ED if they felt the pressure of an earlier deadline.

The more I think about it, the more I think that this little trick will work only once. For this year's cycle, UVA has the benefit of surprise, and they've essentially created two ED rushes: a rush for the first deadline (which everyone assumed was a hard deadline) and now a rush for a second deadline. If the 2011 applicants know all along that the ED deadline is March 1, then UVA is going to lose a lot of its potential ED admits to other schools.


It may only work once but it can have a long lasting effect - such as raising its medians and/or spot on the rankings which can make UVa more attractive to the next cycle of applicants.

jackgrf
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Re: UVA eliminates/extends ED deadline

Postby jackgrf » Thu Jan 07, 2010 11:07 am

slider wrote:
It may only work once but it can have a long lasting effect - such as raising its medians and/or spot on the rankings which can make UVa more attractive to the next cycle of applicants.


unless unemployment numbers skyrocket, which is likely since so many 2Ls can't find jobs

it's pretty stupid to apply ED to any school ite

jackgrf
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Re: UVA eliminates/extends ED deadline

Postby jackgrf » Thu Jan 07, 2010 11:26 am

i'm guessing less scholarship money for RD if they lock in more stupid idiots who apply ED

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TheBigMediocre
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Re: UVA eliminates/extends ED deadline

Postby TheBigMediocre » Thu Jan 07, 2010 11:27 am

Sorry to jump into the party late, but could this be the reason why I've been complete since 11/23 and have been iced since then? UVA is by all means a reach for me (3.35/170) and after reading this thread I feel like I won't hear anything at a reasonable date unless I throw in the ED agreement.

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CE2JD
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Re: UVA eliminates/extends ED deadline

Postby CE2JD » Thu Jan 07, 2010 11:32 am

ITT, two types of people:

1) UVA trolls
2) Extremely bitter people

jackgrf
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Re: UVA eliminates/extends ED deadline

Postby jackgrf » Thu Jan 07, 2010 11:38 am

CE2JD wrote:ITT, two types of people:

1) UVA trolls
2) Extremely bitter people


are both categories simply self-descriptions? not mutually exclusive btw

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Kohinoor
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Re: UVA eliminates/extends ED deadline

Postby Kohinoor » Thu Jan 07, 2010 11:39 am

CE2JD wrote:ITT, [strike]two[/strike]three types of people:

1) UVA trolls
2) Extremely bitter people

3) People who care about ranking shifts within the T14 for some reason.

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CE2JD
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Re: UVA eliminates/extends ED deadline

Postby CE2JD » Thu Jan 07, 2010 11:41 am

Kohinoor wrote:
CE2JD wrote:ITT, [strike]two[/strike]three types of people:

1) UVA trolls
2) Extremely bitter people

3) People who care about ranking shifts within the T14 for some reason.



Oh yeah... I forgot category number 3: losers with too much time on their hands.

Also, these categories are definitely not mutually exclusive.

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CE2JD
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Re: UVA eliminates/extends ED deadline

Postby CE2JD » Thu Jan 07, 2010 11:45 am

boo_pragmatism wrote:
CE2JD wrote:Oh yeah... I forgot category number 3: losers with too much time on their hands.

Douchenozzle paradox, ftw.


<3

annabell
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Re: UVA eliminates/extends ED deadline

Postby annabell » Thu Jan 07, 2010 11:51 am

I don't understand how this will help the rankings. If only borderline students or students with no higher acceptances ED to UVA with this, how will this help their numbers. Traditionally ED admits have much lower numbers at all of these schools than RD admits (thus the "ED boost"). If they get a ton of 170s/3.5s ED, it will increase their yield but not their selectivity. Do they really expect a ton of 173/3.7s to ED when they have a shot of good money at Penn, Michigan, Duke, etc.? What about people who have already gotten into HYS...I doubt they'll be EDing to UVA with no guarantee of $$. Wouldn't giving more scholarship $$ to RD students actually pull good number students away from their other choices and better improve their numbers?

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jcunni5
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Re: UVA eliminates/extends ED deadline

Postby jcunni5 » Thu Jan 07, 2010 11:59 am

annabell wrote:I don't understand how this will help the rankings. If only borderline students or students with no higher acceptances ED to UVA with this, how will this help their numbers. Traditionally ED admits have much lower numbers at all of these schools than RD admits (thus the "ED boost"). If they get a ton of 170s/3.5s ED, it will increase their yield but not their selectivity. Do they really expect a ton of 173/3.7s to ED when they have a shot of good money at Penn, Michigan, Duke, etc.? What about people who have already gotten into HYS...I doubt they'll be EDing to UVA with no guarantee of $$. Wouldn't giving more scholarship $$ to RD students actually pull good number students away from their other choices and better improve their numbers?


alot of people that ED are splitters so what UVA can do is get high lsat splitters and high gpa splitters and they can make their medians go up that way




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