Top Law Schools

Ok, so far I've been accepted to an assortment of T14 schools including Harvard. If I were just planning to practice in New York or DC, I would probably not have a problem choosing a lower ranked school with money attached. The thing is, I have no idea where I want to practice, and I'm even thinking about practicing abroad. Is the Harvard name really worth tens of thousands of dollars in debt? I want a very portable degree (in and outside of the legal field, as well as abroad)...would places like Columbia, NYU and Duke have that kind of reach? Would Yale even have as wide an international reach as Harvard? Thanks for any help!

ali & ali wrote:Ok, so far I've been accepted to an assortment of T14 schools including Harvard. If I were just planning to practice in New York or DC, I would probably not have a problem choosing a lower ranked school with money attached. The thing is, I have no idea where I want to practice, and I'm even thinking about practicing abroad. Is the Harvard name really worth tens of thousands of dollars in debt? I want a very portable degree (in and outside of the legal field, as well as abroad)...would places like Columbia, NYU and Duke have that kind of reach? Would Yale even have as wide an international reach as Harvard? Thanks for any help!

Stop worrying about the chump change of the future. Harvard meets both of your criteria.

Go to Harvard.

Go to Harvard. Unless you got into Yale.... then you'll have to think about it more, I feel that the Harvard name is much more acknowledged internationally than Yale, but Yale is probably better if you want to go into academia, etc. But if it's Harvard v lower-ranked school with $$, I think Harvard wins every time.

Harvard, all the way. It's worth every penny.

i think if you can swing at least a half-scholarship from the venerable People's College of Law, it could be close. But otherwise, I'd probably end up at Harvard.

talibkweli wrote:i think if you can swing at least a half-scholarship from the venerable People's College of Law, it could be close. But otherwise, I'd probably end up at Harvard.

Oh shit http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People's_College_of_Law

According to Wikipedia, LA Mayor is an alumni and failed his 4 attempts at passing the CA bar. That's some shit.

Thanks for the responses, guys. I guess the only (potential) decision would be between Harvard and Yale...but I'll cross that bridge when (and if) I come to it. Hilarious about the LA mayor by the way

What kind of money are you talking about at the lower schools? Do you mean a full ride at CLS? Then I would definitely go with CLS. Do you mean a full ride at MBVP? Then I would have to think long and hard about my goals.

I'm talking a potential half ride at Columbia or potential full ride at Duke. What would your goals be to make you choose CLS with money over Harvard, kurama?

ali & ali wrote:I'm talking a potential half ride at Columbia or potential full ride at Duke. What would your goals be to make you choose CLS with money over Harvard, kurama?

NYC (elite) biglaw and that's it.

ali & ali wrote:I'm talking a potential half ride at Columbia or potential full ride at Duke. What would your goals be to make you choose CLS with money over Harvard, kurama?

That's the thing it's all about what you want. The answer to this question really will vary from individual to individual. For me I would take Harvard over Duke, CLS too if it's just a half scholly. But if I was a person who wanted say NYC biglaw and that's it I would take CLS (that's about it though). if you want to clerk or do PI, or just want biglaw in Cali are all things that will affect the answer to this question. I suggest looking into whatever it is that you are interested in and then determining what schools will get you there, and just how much debt means to you.

Personally, the national and international portability of the Harvard brand might make up for the debt, although I HATE owing money.

ali & ali wrote:Personally, the national and international portability of the Harvard brand might make up for the debt, although I HATE owing money.

You need to sit on this then. But from what you're saying I would say Harvard.

ali & ali wrote:I'm talking a potential half ride at Columbia or potential full ride at Duke. What would your goals be to make you choose CLS with money over Harvard, kurama?

Take the potential half-ride from CLS... It would be nice to have someone else from Lebanon with me next year!

Put in perspective, an extra 80-100k for Harvard spread over a career of 30 years is miniscule. Harvard opens up opportunities more readily than CLS or any other outside SY.

I am in the same boat as you. Something else to consider is to look at the LRAP programs of each school. Extra debt is scary, but less so when most people are going to graduate with a six-figure firm job, a fifth or so of the class clerks (and then presumably makes good money in their next job), and the rest have a safety net of sorts provided they get some kind of employment (I don't think Harvard's LIPP even requires you to be working in law, per se). Columbia's is also fairly good I think; the programs tend to get less cushy as you go down the rankings. The financial aid websites should have calculators or scenarios that show what you would actually have to repay given different earnings scenarios. One more factor to keep in mind that potentially mitigates some of the huge money gap.

That being said, I still have no idea what I'm going to do.

ali & ali wrote:Ok, so far I've been accepted to an assortment of T14 schools including Harvard. If I were just planning to practice in New York or DC, I would probably not have a problem choosing a lower ranked school with money attached. The thing is, I have no idea where I want to practice, and I'm even thinking about practicing abroad. Is the Harvard name really worth tens of thousands of dollars in debt? I want a very portable degree (in and outside of the legal field, as well as abroad)...would places like Columbia, NYU and Duke have that kind of reach? Would Yale even have as wide an international reach as Harvard? Thanks for any help!

I have to agree with the others-- if you want to practice abroad, Harvard has the most name recognition (although Columbia will do you well too)... If you get the half-ride at Columbia, just visit both schools and choose the one you'd be more comfortable at

probably harvard. it's immune

ali & ali wrote:I'm talking a potential half ride at Columbia or potential full ride at Duke. What would your goals be to make you choose CLS with money over Harvard, kurama?

You people are crazy.. take the full ride to Duke.. a bird in the hand is better than two in the bush.. and, in this case, Duke is a very pretty bird.

What exactly are the opportunities that Harvard and Yale open up that other schools don't? Everyone talks about the greater opportunities but doesn't mention what they are. If Duke or Penn or Columbia offers a clinical very similar to one you'd want at Harvard, is there anything other than the name/prestige/alumni network that is to your benefit?

Also, what if a student is worried that they wouldn't be top 1/2 of the class at Harvard, but is more confident they could succeed academically at Duke or NYU working the same amount? Are those legitimate concerns to be taken into account (*and I know that you shouldn't go to a lower ranked school assuming you will do ridiculously well academically because that's a huge risk)?

Personally, I'm in a similar position (maybe lesser so, I mean I haven't gotten into Columbia...) of choosing between Harvard or T10 w/ $$$ so this thread is really helpful ali & ali.

charlym wrote:

ali & ali wrote:I'm talking a potential half ride at Columbia or potential full ride at Duke. What would your goals be to make you choose CLS with money over Harvard, kurama?

Take the potential half-ride from CLS... It would be nice to have someone else from Lebanon with me next year!

would Lebanese be considered URM? I'm only 25% Lebanese myself, and american, but hell if it would give me a boost to admission, perhaps I should indicate it. I absolutely love the food though. I probably gained 10 pounds over the last couple weeks eating Kibbe all the time. I don't get it as often as I used to, so it's kind of neat to see people on here familiar with the food.

back to the topic at hand:

there is no chance in hell that I would get into any of those schools, but if it were me, I would go to harvard.

annabell wrote:What exactly are the opportunities that Harvard and Yale open up that other schools don't? Everyone talks about the greater opportunities but doesn't mention what they are. If Duke or Penn or Columbia offers a clinical very similar to one you'd want at Harvard, is there anything other than the name/prestige/alumni network that is to your benefit?

Also, what if a student is worried that they wouldn't be top 1/2 of the class at Harvard, but is more confident they could succeed academically at Duke or NYU working the same amount? Are those legitimate concerns to be taken into account (*and I know that you shouldn't go to a lower ranked school assuming you will do ridiculously well academically because that's a huge risk)?

Personally, I'm in a similar position (maybe lesser so, I mean I haven't gotten into Columbia...) of choosing between Harvard or T10 w/ $$$ so this thread is really helpful ali & ali.

Well, the thing is that HLS has eliminated letter grades and also mandatory low passes, so instead of needing to be top 1/2, you just have to avoid perhaps bottom 5-10% at Harvard. Also it seems that just cause you have HLS stats does not mean you are guaranteed to do better than many students at say Columbia/Duke/NYU... the line is just too fine between T14 applicants nowadays.

These facts combined with the options (both domestic and internationally) that Harvard affords make me lean in that direction given that I'm probably going to be facing a similar choice.

I find it odd that people think a person who has no idea what they want to do or where they want to live should take out the most amount of loans. That sounds like a disaster.

This person should 1) figure out if they want to even go to law school and why, and 2) if she can't figure that out then avoid dropping 200k on her education if at all possible. The lack of debt will provide far more freedom than a slightly better school.

I do think people here over-guess how much better it is at harvard in this economy than at Columbia. There is really no data on how they've done yet. The grades thing sounds nice, but Berkeley has the same thing and it doesn't make 100% of the people in their class safe from failure. If Harvard's employment numbers end up being 99% for the class of 2009 and CCN's are 60% or 80%, I'll be a believer, but I'm not going to bet full tuition on Harvard until I see that statistic. I seriously am not putting down a deposit until I see some real numbers.

gocubs2010 wrote:

charlym wrote:

ali & ali wrote:I'm talking a potential half ride at Columbia or potential full ride at Duke. What would your goals be to make you choose CLS with money over Harvard, kurama?

Take the potential half-ride from CLS... It would be nice to have someone else from Lebanon with me next year!

would Lebanese be considered URM? I'm only 25% Lebanese myself, and american, but hell if it would give me a boost to admission, perhaps I should indicate it. I absolutely love the food though. I probably gained 10 pounds over the last couple weeks eating Kibbe all the time. I don't get it as often as I used to, so it's kind of neat to see people on here familiar with the food.

back to the topic at hand:

there is no chance in hell that I would get into any of those schools, but if it were me, I would go to harvard.

Middle Eastern, including Lebanese, is considered white, so no URM consideration there...