0 softs

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ConsideringLawSchool
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Re: 0 softs

Postby ConsideringLawSchool » Tue Jan 05, 2010 7:45 pm

rocaveli wrote:
ConsideringLawSchool wrote:I think that the point of softs is to show that you characteristics of you as a person and to help adcoms guess at your future behavior as a law student and a lawyer. IMHO, listing 15 clubs in which you were a member is less valuable than having one sustained passion that you have pursued in a demonstrated way over time (for example, building boats).


buying yatchs?


Um, not so much...

I know for sure that my life would be completely different if I knew how to build boats...

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Kohinoor
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Re: 0 softs

Postby Kohinoor » Tue Jan 05, 2010 7:49 pm

TheLuckyOne wrote:
Kohinoor wrote:And of course UVA. I recently sat down for a heart to heart with members of the admissions committee, as we UVA students are wont to do, and they described how softs and the personal statement can make or break a person's application. A 3.4/159 can demonstrate the fit and strength of character that we Wahoos are known for while a 4.3/180 might lack the depth and interest in his fellow man that we demand of every applicant.


How many of 4.3/180s do you know to be rejected (I'm not talking about Yield Protect here) and 3.4/159s admittted instead at UVA? I personally haven't heard of a single case yet. It might be the case with the marginal numbers, not at the extremes IMO.

Dear Miss, while it would be a clear violation of the honor policy for the committee to disclose the personal information of a student to me, lawschoolnumbers appears informative on this subject.
http://lawschoolnumbers.com/mattbisanz/jd
http://lawschoolnumbers.com/VADouble757/jd

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DoubleChecks
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Re: 0 softs

Postby DoubleChecks » Tue Jan 05, 2010 7:50 pm

rocaveli wrote:
ConsideringLawSchool wrote:I think that the point of softs is to show that you characteristics of you as a person and to help adcoms guess at your future behavior as a law student and a lawyer. IMHO, listing 15 clubs in which you were a member is less valuable than having one sustained passion that you have pursued in a demonstrated way over time (for example, building boats).


buying yatchs?


wtf is a yatch? lol

rocaveli
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Re: 0 softs

Postby rocaveli » Tue Jan 05, 2010 7:53 pm

DoubleChecks wrote:
rocaveli wrote:
ConsideringLawSchool wrote:I think that the point of softs is to show that you characteristics of you as a person and to help adcoms guess at your future behavior as a law student and a lawyer. IMHO, listing 15 clubs in which you were a member is less valuable than having one sustained passion that you have pursued in a demonstrated way over time (for example, building boats).


buying yatchs?


wtf is a yatch? lol


haha. today's not my day..

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TheLuckyOne
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Re: 0 softs

Postby TheLuckyOne » Tue Jan 05, 2010 7:56 pm

Kohinoor wrote:
TheLuckyOne wrote:
Kohinoor wrote:And of course UVA. I recently sat down for a heart to heart with members of the admissions committee, as we UVA students are wont to do, and they described how softs and the personal statement can make or break a person's application. A 3.4/159 can demonstrate the fit and strength of character that we Wahoos are known for while a 4.3/180 might lack the depth and interest in his fellow man that we demand of every applicant.


How many of 4.3/180s do you know to be rejected (I'm not talking about Yield Protect here) and 3.4/159s admittted instead at UVA? I personally haven't heard of a single case yet. It might be the case with the marginal numbers, not at the extremes IMO.

Dear Miss, while it would be a clear violation of the honor policy for the committee to disclose the personal information of a student to me, lawschoolnumbers appears informative on this subject.
http://lawschoolnumbers.com/mattbisanz/jd
http://lawschoolnumbers.com/VADouble757/jd


The second guy is an URM --> doesn't count. In fact, we know nothing about their ECs. Maybe the 178/3.8 guy had a criminal record or whatever, and the URM guy had his extenuating status and an amazing story.

Edit: Actually, having thought about it, this 178/3.8 guy rejected virtually at every school got me worried. What the hell was wrong with him :shock:

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Kohinoor
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Re: 0 softs

Postby Kohinoor » Tue Jan 05, 2010 8:04 pm

TheLuckyOne wrote:
Kohinoor wrote:
TheLuckyOne wrote:
Kohinoor wrote:And of course UVA. I recently sat down for a heart to heart with members of the admissions committee, as we UVA students are wont to do, and they described how softs and the personal statement can make or break a person's application. A 3.4/159 can demonstrate the fit and strength of character that we Wahoos are known for while a 4.3/180 might lack the depth and interest in his fellow man that we demand of every applicant.


How many of 4.3/180s do you know to be rejected (I'm not talking about Yield Protect here) and 3.4/159s admittted instead at UVA? I personally haven't heard of a single case yet. It might be the case with the marginal numbers, not at the extremes IMO.

Dear Miss, while it would be a clear violation of the honor policy for the committee to disclose the personal information of a student to me, lawschoolnumbers appears informative on this subject.
http://lawschoolnumbers.com/mattbisanz/jd
http://lawschoolnumbers.com/VADouble757/jd


The second guy is an URM --> doesn't count. In fact, we know nothing about their ECs. Maybe the 178/3.8 guy had a criminal record or whatever, and the URM guy had his extenuating status and an amazing story.

self-identifying as a URM on lsn =/= checking the box on application and receiving a 'URM boost'

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wadeny
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Re: 0 softs

Postby wadeny » Tue Jan 05, 2010 8:47 pm

OP, softs really don't matter. If you're not aiming for H/Y/S. your GPA and LSAT will basically determine where you get in. Sometimes, I get the feeling many adcoms look at the #s and just leaf through apps to make sure they aren't letting in convicted felons.

rocaveli
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Re: 0 softs

Postby rocaveli » Tue Jan 05, 2010 9:01 pm

wadeny wrote:OP, softs really don't matter. If you're not aiming for H/Y/S. your GPA and LSAT will basically determine where you get in. Sometimes, I get the feeling many adcoms look at the #s and just leaf through apps to make sure they aren't letting in convicted felons.


That's the prob - I want S. :cry:

ConsideringLawSchool
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Re: 0 softs

Postby ConsideringLawSchool » Tue Jan 05, 2010 9:04 pm

ntzsch wrote:
wadeny wrote:OP, softs really don't matter. If you're not aiming for H/Y/S. your GPA and LSAT will basically determine where you get in. Sometimes, I get the feeling many adcoms look at the #s and just leaf through apps to make sure they aren't letting in convicted felons.



agreed, except for splitters, particularly high GPA ones.


I would think the opposite--high GPA splitters have shown that they work hard. High LSAT splitters have to prove they're not just smart lazy kids who have never taken anything seriously.

rocaveli
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Re: 0 softs

Postby rocaveli » Tue Jan 05, 2010 9:16 pm

ConsideringLawSchool wrote:
ntzsch wrote:
wadeny wrote:OP, softs really don't matter. If you're not aiming for H/Y/S. your GPA and LSAT will basically determine where you get in. Sometimes, I get the feeling many adcoms look at the #s and just leaf through apps to make sure they aren't letting in convicted felons.



agreed, except for splitters, particularly high GPA ones.


I would think the opposite--high GPA splitters have shown that they work hard. High LSAT splitters have to prove they're not just smart lazy kids who have never taken anything seriously.


1. I'm not convinced that stupid+hardworker > smart+lazy
2. I'm not convinced that hardworker+communications major at podunk > hardworker+science major at MIT

Not bringing down anyone with a low LSAT - it's not an intelligence test, but at least accounts for the differences in majors/schools between applicants.

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TheLuckyOne
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Re: 0 softs

Postby TheLuckyOne » Wed Jan 06, 2010 7:27 am

Kohinoor wrote:
TheLuckyOne wrote:
Kohinoor wrote:
TheLuckyOne wrote:
How many of 4.3/180s do you know to be rejected (I'm not talking about Yield Protect here) and 3.4/159s admittted instead at UVA? I personally haven't heard of a single case yet. It might be the case with the marginal numbers, not at the extremes IMO.

Dear Miss, while it would be a clear violation of the honor policy for the committee to disclose the personal information of a student to me, lawschoolnumbers appears informative on this subject.
http://lawschoolnumbers.com/mattbisanz/jd
http://lawschoolnumbers.com/VADouble757/jd


The second guy is an URM --> doesn't count. In fact, we know nothing about their ECs. Maybe the 178/3.8 guy had a criminal record or whatever, and the URM guy had his extenuating status and an amazing story.

self-identifying as a URM on lsn =/= checking the box on application and receiving a 'URM boost'


LOL, let me see if I read this right --> so you believe everything in his profile, but his self-identified URM status or that he took time to tick the box on LSN (when it doesn't matter), but decided not to on the applications? LOL

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cigrainger
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Re: 0 softs

Postby cigrainger » Wed Jan 06, 2010 7:40 am

rocaveli wrote:
wadeny wrote:OP, softs really don't matter. If you're not aiming for H/Y/S. your GPA and LSAT will basically determine where you get in. Sometimes, I get the feeling many adcoms look at the #s and just leaf through apps to make sure they aren't letting in convicted felons.


That's the prob - I want S. :cry:


Have you thought about taking a year or two out to do something you might enjoy and that might happen to look on good on your application? Americorps? Peace Corps? Teach for America? TEFL? Society needs bright and selfless people who can give a bit of their time for cheap.

That being said, only do that if any of those are genuinely attractive to you. I don't think it's wrong to take into consideration the bump it could give you in admissions (particularly as a splitter), but they're rather huge responsibilities that will be trying and you should only do them if you can see yourself doing them anyway.

Also, while your resume may look short, if you can convey your well-roundedness in your PS that will probably help.

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TheLuckyOne
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Re: 0 softs

Postby TheLuckyOne » Wed Jan 06, 2010 7:51 am

OP, I agree with the above poster. I doubt you even stand much of a chance at Stanford unless you have some strong community involvement. You should do something VERY impressive to make up for your GPA, and this very impressive thing is not a president of the whatever club.

I'm sorry to disappoint you, but I doubt you will be admitted even if your LSAT score is 180 :|

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Borhas
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Re: 0 softs

Postby Borhas » Wed Jan 06, 2010 12:08 pm

life's not fair, you'll do fine

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badwithpseudonyms
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Re: 0 softs

Postby badwithpseudonyms » Wed Jan 06, 2010 12:33 pm

yachts are, in most cases, for people who know very little about boats.

09042014
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Re: 0 softs

Postby 09042014 » Wed Jan 06, 2010 12:49 pm

rocaveli wrote:
ConsideringLawSchool wrote:
ntzsch wrote:
wadeny wrote:OP, softs really don't matter. If you're not aiming for H/Y/S. your GPA and LSAT will basically determine where you get in. Sometimes, I get the feeling many adcoms look at the #s and just leaf through apps to make sure they aren't letting in convicted felons.



agreed, except for splitters, particularly high GPA ones.


I would think the opposite--high GPA splitters have shown that they work hard. High LSAT splitters have to prove they're not just smart lazy kids who have never taken anything seriously.


1. I'm not convinced that stupid+hardworker > smart+lazy
2. I'm not convinced that hardworker+communications major at podunk > hardworker+science major at MIT

Not bringing down anyone with a low LSAT - it's not an intelligence test, but at least accounts for the differences in majors/schools between applicants.


I think it really depends on the situation. A 3.9 in an easy major at an easy school with a 150 LSAT probably won't hack it in a competitive program like top law schools.

A 2.6 from an easy program with a 175, means they didn't try very hard. If their softs indicate they haven't changed, I don't think they should get into a good school. But if they did show they have changed, they could be very successful at law school.

Someone with a 2.9 from Caltech with a 177 will probably do pretty well. If you are going to let a 3.5 sociology major with a 177 in, the Caltech guy should be able to get in too.

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Hattori Hanzo
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Re: 0 softs

Postby Hattori Hanzo » Wed Jan 06, 2010 2:57 pm

I am in the same situation as the OP. I think having softs isn't a big help but lack of softs can hurt.

wjnahill
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Re: 0 softs

Postby wjnahill » Wed Jan 06, 2010 3:38 pm

What about awards? I have extracurriculars, but I literally left the awards section blank (for T14s). My school didnt have Dean's List or anything comparable. I didn't make Phi Beta Kappa. Weren't really a lot of other awards for the winnin'.

I was involved in plenty of ECs and help high positions in those groups, so I've got that going, but I wonder if the awards nonsense will hurt me.

BenJ
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Re: 0 softs

Postby BenJ » Wed Jan 06, 2010 3:56 pm

Kohinoor wrote:
TheLuckyOne wrote:
Kohinoor wrote:And of course UVA. I recently sat down for a heart to heart with members of the admissions committee, as we UVA students are wont to do, and they described how softs and the personal statement can make or break a person's application. A 3.4/159 can demonstrate the fit and strength of character that we Wahoos are known for while a 4.3/180 might lack the depth and interest in his fellow man that we demand of every applicant.


How many of 4.3/180s do you know to be rejected (I'm not talking about Yield Protect here) and 3.4/159s admittted instead at UVA? I personally haven't heard of a single case yet. It might be the case with the marginal numbers, not at the extremes IMO.

Dear Miss, while it would be a clear violation of the honor policy for the committee to disclose the personal information of a student to me, lawschoolnumbers appears informative on this subject.
http://lawschoolnumbers.com/mattbisanz/jd
http://lawschoolnumbers.com/VADouble757/jd


Given the number of rejects, the first must have applied right at the deadline or even after the deadline at a lot of schools or else had something else going on (a felony, maybe?). The second is URM and does not prove any point.
Last edited by BenJ on Wed Jan 06, 2010 3:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

09042014
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Re: 0 softs

Postby 09042014 » Wed Jan 06, 2010 3:58 pm

BenJ wrote:
Kohinoor wrote:
TheLuckyOne wrote:
Kohinoor wrote:And of course UVA. I recently sat down for a heart to heart with members of the admissions committee, as we UVA students are wont to do, and they described how softs and the personal statement can make or break a person's application. A 3.4/159 can demonstrate the fit and strength of character that we Wahoos are known for while a 4.3/180 might lack the depth and interest in his fellow man that we demand of every applicant.


How many of 4.3/180s do you know to be rejected (I'm not talking about Yield Protect here) and 3.4/159s admittted instead at UVA? I personally haven't heard of a single case yet. It might be the case with the marginal numbers, not at the extremes IMO.

Dear Miss, while it would be a clear violation of the honor policy for the committee to disclose the personal information of a student to me, lawschoolnumbers appears informative on this subject.
http://lawschoolnumbers.com/mattbisanz/jd
http://lawschoolnumbers.com/VADouble757/jd


Given the number of rejects, the first must have applied right at the deadline or even after the deadline at a lot of schools. The second is URM and does not prove any point.


He is trolling UVA is a numbers whore.

BenJ
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Re: 0 softs

Postby BenJ » Wed Jan 06, 2010 4:00 pm

Desert Fox wrote:
BenJ wrote:
Kohinoor wrote:
TheLuckyOne wrote:
How many of 4.3/180s do you know to be rejected (I'm not talking about Yield Protect here) and 3.4/159s admittted instead at UVA? I personally haven't heard of a single case yet. It might be the case with the marginal numbers, not at the extremes IMO.

Dear Miss, while it would be a clear violation of the honor policy for the committee to disclose the personal information of a student to me, lawschoolnumbers appears informative on this subject.
http://lawschoolnumbers.com/mattbisanz/jd
http://lawschoolnumbers.com/VADouble757/jd


Given the number of rejects, the first must have applied right at the deadline or even after the deadline at a lot of schools. The second is URM and does not prove any point.


He is trolling UVA is a numbers whore.


What I figured, guess I just missed the sarcasm.

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WhiskeyGuy
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Re: 0 softs

Postby WhiskeyGuy » Wed Jan 06, 2010 4:09 pm

Desert Fox wrote:
Kohinoor wrote:
TheLuckyOne wrote:
Kohinoor wrote:And of course UVA. I recently sat down for a heart to heart with members of the admissions committee, as we UVA students are wont to do, and they described how softs and the personal statement can make or break a person's application. A 3.4/159 can demonstrate the fit and strength of character that we Wahoos are known for while a 4.3/180 might lack the depth and interest in his fellow man that we demand of every applicant.


How many of 4.3/180s do you know to be rejected (I'm not talking about Yield Protect here) and 3.4/159s admittted instead at UVA? I personally haven't heard of a single case yet. It might be the case with the marginal numbers, not at the extremes IMO.

Dear Miss, while it would be a clear violation of the honor policy for the committee to disclose the personal information of a student to me, lawschoolnumbers appears informative on this subject.
http://lawschoolnumbers.com/mattbisanz/jd
http://lawschoolnumbers.com/VADouble757/jd

Given the number of rejects, the first must have applied right at the deadline or even after the deadline at a lot of schools. The second is URM and does not prove any point.


He is trolling UVA is a numbers whore.


Kohinoor has never once trolled!




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