Even worth trying this cycle?

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CE2JD
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Re: Even worth trying this cycle?

Postby CE2JD » Thu Jan 07, 2010 12:20 pm

VC is dead ITE

ughOSU
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Re: Even worth trying this cycle?

Postby ughOSU » Thu Jan 07, 2010 12:31 pm

CE2JD wrote:VC is dead ITE

Yea it's definetely hurting. However, VC will never be dead as long as America is America.

e: yea sorry about hijacking OP, but for young engineers I really do have trouble understanding why you're going to law school now rather than engr. grad programs. It's funny, bc I was a history major (who took many technical/engr classes), and I'm looking into engineering and technical grad programs over law school at this point.

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BriaTharen
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Re: Even worth trying this cycle?

Postby BriaTharen » Thu Jan 07, 2010 12:36 pm

zreinhar wrote:
jackgrf wrote:
i never understood why engineers with jobs would go back to school for a law degree...more hours, more debt, potential for less pay....the real draws of a jd huh. i didn't major in engineering, but if i could turn back time i'd probably major in CE or EE and not go to law school/grad school



In all honesty there is (at least for me) a few reasons. Yes there are more hours to work, but not as much as you think, in engineering, a full time engineer works prob 50+ hours a week. Plus the pain in the ass thing about engineering and engineering school for that matter is that even up until the end of the project, you never really know if its going to work, there could be some murderous hiccup in the system that completely obliterates it (speaking from experience) then you are royally screwed.. as far as the less pay I would argue against that. Most patent agents make more than engineers and they haven't even gone to law school, so while there is always a potential for less money, the absence of a roof pay in IP makes it the reason Im doing it. Ironically with reference to the categories presented I would say that I fall into the smart/genius and dont care about $. I don't dream of having a mansion, or a ferrari or making a million a year. But, I know people who have personally done it and I figure why the hell not. If push comes to shove I can donate the money I make to people who really need it. Im happy living with my wife making the money we make (note I just graduated and she works in a barbershop, and I qualify for pell grant) By the same token, Law is a job that you can do for a very long time. Engineering changes so much so quickly that you can really only "engineer" for like 10 years before you are a relic (unless in research) and at that point, its management or bust. But in law, a good lawyer is like wine, they only get better with age. lastly... I like it. One again referring to my internship, I have never been that ingrossed in what i do at work, outside of my first night working as a dishwasher at Outback Steakhouse..


+1

You also can't forget that with just a BA in engineering and passing the FE, you do put yourself at a salary cap- even if you are a genius. Most people don't trust someone who doesn't have their PE, regardless of how intelligent they are. A PE is not only a difficult exam, but also requires study underneath another PE. I do not know a single PE that has not gone to grad school. So grad school, and doing exceptionally well at it, are necessities.

For me, I'm just trying to fight the salary cap. I also (shocker for an EE) like the humanities and really enjoyed the PoliSci classes I took, so I don't think the subject matter will make me want to blow my brains out. Plus, I like the idea of possibly having my own firm at some point, and I don't want to have to study for 5 years underneath someone, take another hard test, and build a rocketship to do it.

09042014
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Re: Even worth trying this cycle?

Postby 09042014 » Thu Jan 07, 2010 12:47 pm

ughOSU wrote:
CE2JD wrote:VC is dead ITE

Yea it's definetely hurting. However, VC will never be dead as long as America is America.

e: yea sorry about hijacking OP, but for young engineers I really do have trouble understanding why you're going to law school now rather than engr. grad programs. It's funny, bc I was a history major (who took many technical/engr classes), and I'm looking into engineering and technical grad programs over law school at this point.


I was considering grad school but my GPA makes it impossible to get into a good program.

Will engineering grad programs let you in without a degree in engineering?

You also can't forget that with just a BA in engineering and passing the FE, you do put yourself at a salary cap- even if you are a genius. Most people don't trust someone who doesn't have their PE, regardless of how intelligent they are. A PE is not only a difficult exam, but also requires study underneath another PE. I do not know a single PE that has not gone to grad school.


Most EE's never get a PE. Only ones who go into power stuff do, from my experience. And I don't know why you'd need grad school to do it.

Engineering masters degrees aren't that necessary. They are great if you want to retrain in a different specialty, but its not necessary for a successful career.

ughOSU
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Re: Even worth trying this cycle?

Postby ughOSU » Thu Jan 07, 2010 12:57 pm

Desert Fox wrote:Will engineering grad programs let you in without a degree in engineering?

Interestingly, yes. However, of course some are more accepting than others. I don't want to get into too much detail, but I'm looking mainly at chem e bc I want to do sustainability and energy work, which is a field more inclined to allowing cross overs from other fields, and when I was in UG I took most of the classes they would typically look for in an applicant trying to cross over into that program (thermo, materials science, fluid dynamics, basic engr. principles, lots of math, etc.). I would probably need to take an extra semester to catch up though (but who gives a shit about 10K?)

It kinda sucks bc I realized that law is boring as shit not too long ago, and after spending a retarded amount of time prepping for the LSAT. Then I felt like I was invested, but now I just want to say fuck it. Who knows, an acceptance from NU could change my calculus.

d-cannon
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Re: Even worth trying this cycle?

Postby d-cannon » Thu Jan 07, 2010 1:10 pm

Another thing to think about as an engineer is getting into IP after receiving a JD. Those are $160K (starting) jobs in the right city and many IP heavy firms are looking specifically for engineering undergrads.

FWIW, my wife has a master's in civil eng from UVA... the VPs in her firm (in the DC area) were making less than $140K all in... with 15+ years exp. A sr. associate in an IP firm will make twice that.

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englawyer
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Re: Even worth trying this cycle?

Postby englawyer » Thu Jan 07, 2010 8:12 pm

d-cannon wrote:Another thing to think about as an engineer is getting into IP after receiving a JD. Those are $160K (starting) jobs in the right city and many IP heavy firms are looking specifically for engineering undergrads.

FWIW, my wife has a master's in civil eng from UVA... the VPs in her firm (in the DC area) were making less than $140K all in... with 15+ years exp. A sr. associate in an IP firm will make twice that.


yes, that is a great option, and is probably the reason many of us are in this thread. i am not 100% committed yet though, although I might be when it comes time to the job hunt and it's a good bet :o

postitnotes
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Re: Even worth trying this cycle?

Postby postitnotes » Thu Jan 07, 2010 8:21 pm

d-cannon wrote:Another thing to think about as an engineer is getting into IP after receiving a JD. Those are $160K (starting) jobs in the right city and many IP heavy firms are looking specifically for engineering undergrads.



I think IP heavy firms are looking specifically for engineering masters and PhDs actually...if you do some firm research a lot of them require at least a master's degree and a good GPA in engineering.

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BriaTharen
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Re: Even worth trying this cycle?

Postby BriaTharen » Thu Jan 07, 2010 8:28 pm

postitnotes wrote:
d-cannon wrote:Another thing to think about as an engineer is getting into IP after receiving a JD. Those are $160K (starting) jobs in the right city and many IP heavy firms are looking specifically for engineering undergrads.



I think IP heavy firms are looking specifically for engineering masters and PhDs actually...if you do some firm research a lot of them require at least a master's degree and a good GPA in engineering.


Kind of why I am considering taking the FE. While I don't envision myself going to grad school any time soon, at least I'll have that...

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zreinhar
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Re: Even worth trying this cycle?

Postby zreinhar » Fri Mar 26, 2010 10:42 am

JessicaTiger wrote:
postitnotes wrote:
d-cannon wrote:Another thing to think about as an engineer is getting into IP after receiving a JD. Those are $160K (starting) jobs in the right city and many IP heavy firms are looking specifically for engineering undergrads.



I think IP heavy firms are looking specifically for engineering masters and PhDs actually...if you do some firm research a lot of them require at least a master's degree and a good GPA in engineering.


Kind of why I am considering taking the FE. While I don't envision myself going to grad school any time soon, at least I'll have that...


After my personal research, and actually working in IP I can say that that is wrong for the majority, but it also depends on your discipline. Most EE patents a BS can understand, with the exception of a few, but for ChemE, MSE, etc. you might need a grad degree, and for ME, a good BS can understand that too... as far as the FE, it's easy, just get the FE Review manual
(I didnt study at all and passed it, just guess on things that arent your forte, for me that was statics/dynamics/etc) for someone with a ahalfway decent eng gpa (3.2-3.4) you can get an MS from USC (ranked 7th for Eng grad school) with a halfway decent GRE (740Q, 490V) in only 9 classes, online, which I might do once i start working as an attorney, but we'll see
http://mapp.usc.edu/

Either way, the pay is great for an IP lawyer, and the work is easy, albeit somewhat boring, though it still involves enough tech to peak the interest of the eng side of my heart.




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