Even worth trying this cycle?

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zreinhar
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Even worth trying this cycle?

Postby zreinhar » Mon Jan 04, 2010 11:42 am

So I am in a fun situation. I have a 3.71 (my current LSAC GPA) and I took the Dec. LSAT. I am proud to say I am a horror story. I scored 1 point lower than my diagnostic (got a 155) I have been testing in the upper 160s since. Nerves really got a hold of me and I had a lot of stuff going on (who doesn't) Either way I am retaking in Feb.

Undergrad is Electrical Engineering with Minor In Math, fresh out of undergrad, but work experience at major research institute, and interned at an intellectual property firm. pretty good softs (though it prob wont matter)

Now the fun stuff, I am applying to Georgia State (Atlanta resident) as my fallback should I bomb the Feb. test. If I can manage something above a 168 what are my chances at the following schools?

Emory
GW
Vanderbilt
Georgetown
Duke

And lastly if I manage above a 170?

Penn
Chicago
Michigan

Final Note: If I wait for the next cycle my GPA will be something around a 3.63 (bad final semester in undergrad)
ideas? should I be looking at other schools? (Shameless bumps will follow)

02082010
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Re: Even worth trying this cycle?

Postby 02082010 » Mon Jan 04, 2010 11:56 am

I'd sit this cycle out and if you don't feel comfortable/ready to take in Feb then get some more prep and take the June test. Ideally, you'll have all apps out by mid-Sept and be golden (especially if you have a 168+ score).

09042014
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Re: Even worth trying this cycle?

Postby 09042014 » Mon Jan 04, 2010 12:00 pm

zreinhar wrote:So I am in a fun situation. I have a 3.71 (my current LSAC GPA) and I took the Dec. LSAT. I am proud to say I am a horror story. I scored 1 point lower than my diagnostic (got a 155) I have been testing in the upper 160s since. Nerves really got a hold of me and I had a lot of stuff going on (who doesn't) Either way I am retaking in Feb.

Undergrad is Electrical Engineering with Minor In Math, fresh out of undergrad, but work experience at major research institute, and interned at an intellectual property firm. pretty good softs (though it prob wont matter)

Now the fun stuff, I am applying to Georgia State (Atlanta resident) as my fallback should I bomb the Feb. test. If I can manage something above a 168 what are my chances at the following schools?

Emory
GW
Vanderbilt
Georgetown
Duke

And lastly if I manage above a 170?

Penn
Chicago
Michigan

Final Note: If I wait for the next cycle my GPA will be something around a 3.63 (bad final semester in undergrad)
ideas? should I be looking at other schools? (Shameless bumps will follow)


3.71 in EE, you should be applying to grad school not law school. Don't like engineering I guess?

hungryhungryhippo
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Re: Even worth trying this cycle?

Postby hungryhungryhippo » Mon Jan 04, 2010 12:08 pm

A 168 puts you at big $$$ for Emory had you applied by Jan, so I'd believe that even a late(r) application can still get you in, though maybe without $$$. That score will also have UGA looking at you, especially as a GA resident, and Athens is a hella more fun than ATL.

http://www.lawschoolpredictor.com
GOO DAWGS!

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zreinhar
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Re: Even worth trying this cycle?

Postby zreinhar » Mon Jan 04, 2010 12:27 pm

hopefulundergrad wrote:I'd sit this cycle out and if you don't feel comfortable/ready to take in Feb then get some more prep and take the June test. Ideally, you'll have all apps out by mid-Sept and be golden (especially if you have a 168+ score).


Im thinking I feel comfortable enough to do well. I had a major fault in previous studying that was corrected, I went through the bibles and learned how to solve all the questions, etc. But only actually did two PTs. I have since done plenty more and feel that a 168 is within my reach. At this point I would really like to go to Georgetown, so that's the hope, I may even start there PT then move to FT if possible.. also assuming my LSAT is where it should be..


Desert Fox wrote:3.71 in EE, you should be applying to grad school not law school. Don't like engineering I guess?


I actually quite adore engineering, but in the two years I have worked in, I have already gotten pretty bored, and I work in research which means that I have done stuff that is pretty broad. I actually already took the GRE and got a perfect quant score, hence duke (want the JD/MSEE there) and Mich (Interest in doing a program there like a JD/MSEE) I also interned in an IP firm and liked it a lot, I figure that if I'm gonna get bored either way I should at least get paid a lot of money to do it..

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Re: Even worth trying this cycle?

Postby 09042014 » Mon Jan 04, 2010 12:34 pm

zreinhar wrote:
hopefulundergrad wrote:I'd sit this cycle out and if you don't feel comfortable/ready to take in Feb then get some more prep and take the June test. Ideally, you'll have all apps out by mid-Sept and be golden (especially if you have a 168+ score).


Im thinking I feel comfortable enough to do well. I had a major fault in previous studying that was corrected, I went through the bibles and learned how to solve all the questions, etc. But only actually did two PTs. I have since done plenty more and feel that a 168 is within my reach. At this point I would really like to go to Georgetown, so that's the hope, I may even start there PT then move to FT if possible.. also assuming my LSAT is where it should be..


Desert Fox wrote:3.71 in EE, you should be applying to grad school not law school. Don't like engineering I guess?


I actually quite adore engineering, but in the two years I have worked in, I have already gotten pretty bored, and I work in research which means that I have done stuff that is pretty broad. I actually already took the GRE and got a perfect quant score, hence duke (want the JD/MSEE there) and Mich (Interest in doing a program there like a JD/MSEE) I also interned in an IP firm and liked it a lot, I figure that if I'm gonna get bored either way I should at least get paid a lot of money to do it..


If school costs you 200K, and you are making 160K, it will take probably 5 years after law school to break even financially. Eight years of no wealth accumulation, compared to probably 60K a year and growing. Or 6 years of being a grad student. PhD in EE can pull some cash in industry right?

Plus I heard patent law is boring as hell, so don't go down that road unless you have to.

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zreinhar
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Re: Even worth trying this cycle?

Postby zreinhar » Mon Jan 04, 2010 12:40 pm

Desert Fox wrote:
zreinhar wrote:
hopefulundergrad wrote:I'd sit this cycle out and if you don't feel comfortable/ready to take in Feb then get some more prep and take the June test. Ideally, you'll have all apps out by mid-Sept and be golden (especially if you have a 168+ score).


Im thinking I feel comfortable enough to do well. I had a major fault in previous studying that was corrected, I went through the bibles and learned how to solve all the questions, etc. But only actually did two PTs. I have since done plenty more and feel that a 168 is within my reach. At this point I would really like to go to Georgetown, so that's the hope, I may even start there PT then move to FT if possible.. also assuming my LSAT is where it should be..


Desert Fox wrote:3.71 in EE, you should be applying to grad school not law school. Don't like engineering I guess?


I actually quite adore engineering, but in the two years I have worked in, I have already gotten pretty bored, and I work in research which means that I have done stuff that is pretty broad. I actually already took the GRE and got a perfect quant score, hence duke (want the JD/MSEE there) and Mich (Interest in doing a program there like a JD/MSEE) I also interned in an IP firm and liked it a lot, I figure that if I'm gonna get bored either way I should at least get paid a lot of money to do it..


If school costs you 200K, and you are making 160K, it will take probably 5 years after law school to break even financially. Eight years of no wealth accumulation, compared to probably 60K a year and growing. Or 6 years of being a grad student. PhD in EE can pull some cash in industry right?

Plus I heard patent law is boring as hell, so don't go down that road unless you have to.


PhD in what industry? not really in any, for the PhD, its no money for six years and you graduate making like 85k, maybe 100k. The real money with an engineering degree is with a JD or MBA. And as far as the money thing, I could break even in like two years. 200k debt, paying off about 80 of it each year wouldn't take long. And the engineering money is there, but I dont like the rook (about 120k depending on whether or not you go into management) and patent law is biglaw salary at really most firms, even close at boutiques. I worked at a boutique doing prep and pro this past semester and loved it. The attorneys there make close to 200k and the firm has about 20 people (including paralegals) add to that the fact that I have a family member who is a partner in LA who manages an IP group. Pretty much, barring something substantial, she said she'd give me a job when I graduate. I am also not looking for BigLaw, so getting a job wont be too hard (relatively speaking)

EDIT" Edited for dumbass math... Im a frekain engineer, 80k paid off over 3 years

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zreinhar
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Re: Even worth trying this cycle?

Postby zreinhar » Mon Jan 04, 2010 12:42 pm

Oh, and fox, mind if I ask where you went to undergrad? and did you have work exp that led to the NU acceptance? (congrats btw)

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Re: Even worth trying this cycle?

Postby 09042014 » Mon Jan 04, 2010 12:55 pm

zreinhar wrote:Oh, and fox, mind if I ask where you went to undergrad? and did you have work exp that led to the NU acceptance? (congrats btw)


I went to Illinois, yes I'll have about two years by August. I think at this point its pretty much required at NU.

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Re: Even worth trying this cycle?

Postby 09042014 » Mon Jan 04, 2010 1:05 pm

And to address your original question, I'm not sure if its worth it to apply this cycle. You may be better taking in June, and getting a lot higher than 170. You are most likely smart enough to get a huge score.

A really high score puts you in at really great schools.

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englawyer
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Re: Even worth trying this cycle?

Postby englawyer » Mon Jan 04, 2010 1:19 pm

zreinhar wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
zreinhar wrote:
hopefulundergrad wrote:I'd sit this cycle out and if you don't feel comfortable/ready to take in Feb then get some more prep and take the June test. Ideally, you'll have all apps out by mid-Sept and be golden (especially if you have a 168+ score).


Im thinking I feel comfortable enough to do well. I had a major fault in previous studying that was corrected, I went through the bibles and learned how to solve all the questions, etc. But only actually did two PTs. I have since done plenty more and feel that a 168 is within my reach. At this point I would really like to go to Georgetown, so that's the hope, I may even start there PT then move to FT if possible.. also assuming my LSAT is where it should be..


Desert Fox wrote:3.71 in EE, you should be applying to grad school not law school. Don't like engineering I guess?


I actually quite adore engineering, but in the two years I have worked in, I have already gotten pretty bored, and I work in research which means that I have done stuff that is pretty broad. I actually already took the GRE and got a perfect quant score, hence duke (want the JD/MSEE there) and Mich (Interest in doing a program there like a JD/MSEE) I also interned in an IP firm and liked it a lot, I figure that if I'm gonna get bored either way I should at least get paid a lot of money to do it..


If school costs you 200K, and you are making 160K, it will take probably 5 years after law school to break even financially. Eight years of no wealth accumulation, compared to probably 60K a year and growing. Or 6 years of being a grad student. PhD in EE can pull some cash in industry right?

Plus I heard patent law is boring as hell, so don't go down that road unless you have to.


PhD in what industry? not really in any, for the PhD, its no money for six years and you graduate making like 85k, maybe 100k. The real money with an engineering degree is with a JD or MBA. And as far as the money thing, I could break even in like two years. 200k debt, paying off about 80 of it each year wouldn't take long. And the engineering money is there, but I dont like the rook (about 120k depending on whether or not you go into management) and patent law is biglaw salary at really most firms, even close at boutiques. I worked at a boutique doing prep and pro this past semester and loved it. The attorneys there make close to 200k and the firm has about 20 people (including paralegals) add to that the fact that I have a family member who is a partner in LA who manages an IP group. Pretty much, barring something substantial, she said she'd give me a job when I graduate. I am also not looking for BigLaw, so getting a job wont be too hard (relatively speaking)

EDIT" Edited for dumbass math... Im a frekain engineer, 80k paid off over 3 years


+1 to all of this (except for having family connections in IP)

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CE2JD
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Re: Even worth trying this cycle?

Postby CE2JD » Mon Jan 04, 2010 1:24 pm

Every EE I know who is graduating from college this year plans on going to law school.

I know it's anecdotal, but this is either a freakish coincidence or very bad news for future EE IPers.

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BriaTharen
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Re: Even worth trying this cycle?

Postby BriaTharen » Mon Jan 04, 2010 1:25 pm

zreinhar wrote:
hopefulundergrad wrote:I'd sit this cycle out and if you don't feel comfortable/ready to take in Feb then get some more prep and take the June test. Ideally, you'll have all apps out by mid-Sept and be golden (especially if you have a 168+ score).


Im thinking I feel comfortable enough to do well. I had a major fault in previous studying that was corrected, I went through the bibles and learned how to solve all the questions, etc. But only actually did two PTs. I have since done plenty more and feel that a 168 is within my reach. At this point I would really like to go to Georgetown, so that's the hope, I may even start there PT then move to FT if possible.. also assuming my LSAT is where it should be..


Desert Fox wrote:3.71 in EE, you should be applying to grad school not law school. Don't like engineering I guess?


I actually quite adore engineering, but in the two years I have worked in, I have already gotten pretty bored, and I work in research which means that I have done stuff that is pretty broad. I actually already took the GRE and got a perfect quant score, hence duke (want the JD/MSEE there) and Mich (Interest in doing a program there like a JD/MSEE) I also interned in an IP firm and liked it a lot, I figure that if I'm gonna get bored either way I should at least get paid a lot of money to do it..


Problem with engineering is there is a definite salary cap. Unless you are very inventive/a designer, you don't have the kind of potential salary and opportunity range like you do with a JD.

To the OP- I would study your ass off for the February test, but go ahead an apply.

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Re: Even worth trying this cycle?

Postby BriaTharen » Mon Jan 04, 2010 1:28 pm

CE2JD wrote:Every EE I know who is graduating from college this year plans on going to law school.

I know it's anecdotal, but this is either a freakish coincidence or very bad news for future EE IPers.


Since engineers make up about 5% of college graduates each year (excluding places like MIT) in comparison to Liberal Arts (which makes up about 25-30%), I don't think the situation will be horrendous. But it certainly amps up the competition; fortunately, based on former threads from IP lawyers, EE is the most valuable degree for IP.

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Re: Even worth trying this cycle?

Postby 09042014 » Mon Jan 04, 2010 1:29 pm

CE2JD wrote:Every EE I know who is graduating from college this year plans on going to law school.

I know it's anecdotal, but this is either a freakish coincidence or very bad news for future EE IPers.


How many do you know? I don't know any from my class who did, but I graduated two years ago.

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Re: Even worth trying this cycle?

Postby 09042014 » Mon Jan 04, 2010 1:33 pm

JessicaTiger wrote:
CE2JD wrote:Every EE I know who is graduating from college this year plans on going to law school.

I know it's anecdotal, but this is either a freakish coincidence or very bad news for future EE IPers.


Since engineers make up about 5% of college graduates each year (excluding places like MIT) in comparison to Liberal Arts (which makes up about 25-30%), I don't think the situation will be horrendous. But it certainly amps up the competition; fortunately, based on former threads from IP lawyers, EE is the most valuable degree for IP.


Because so few went to law school. Increase the number by 20% and 15% of us probably won't get jobs.

There are what four of us on this thread alone. Probably not good news.

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Re: Even worth trying this cycle?

Postby CE2JD » Mon Jan 04, 2010 1:34 pm

Desert Fox wrote:
CE2JD wrote:Every EE I know who is graduating from college this year plans on going to law school.

I know it's anecdotal, but this is either a freakish coincidence or very bad news for future EE IPers.


How many do you know? I don't know any from my class who did, but I graduated two years ago.


5 or 6. Most of them contacted me just to see if going to law school was worth it. I, of course, responded with a resounding 'NO.'

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Re: Even worth trying this cycle?

Postby englawyer » Mon Jan 04, 2010 1:35 pm

JessicaTiger wrote:
Problem with engineering is there is a definite salary cap. Unless you are very inventive/a designer, you don't have the kind of potential salary and opportunity range like you do with a JD.

To the OP- I would study your ass off for the February test, but go ahead an apply.


exactly. given that engineers are usually pretty smart, there are other career paths that can be much more engaging and better compensated. the only great opportunities in engineering are startups (which requires a certain risk profile that many don't have) or guru level/famous engineers who get well paid "fellowship" type gigs at google etc.

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zreinhar
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Re: Even worth trying this cycle?

Postby zreinhar » Mon Jan 04, 2010 1:36 pm

I am gonna go ahead and go forward with applying for the fall 2010 and study my ass off for the Feb lsat. If I still get a bad score, then I will accept my fate and plan on GSU, or somewhere similair, but will then for the hell of it. Tak ethe June LSAT because it won't really hurt anything. I also neglected to mention that I have an LSAC fee waiver, hence the higher ranked schools that I have no business applying to.
CE2JD wrote:Every EE I know who is graduating from college this year plans on going to law school.

I know it's anecdotal, but this is either a freakish coincidence or very bad news for future EE IPers.


I like to think I'm unique (who doesn't) in that I have IP exp. Will be sitting for the patent bar this spring, and have undergrad research at a big university. Alot of the EE kids who are trying to go to law school are doing so because they cant get a job ITE (read: bad GPA) given that, I think theyll end up at some of the lower schools. (leave it to my dumbass to have the good engineering GPA and a shitty LSAT)

englawyer wrote:+1 to all of this (except for having family connections in IP)


why no +1 for having family in the Biz? sarcasm? or its really not good? Damn text sarcasm is so hard to decipher...

Lastly, I am applying to UVA as well because they have the later deadline, though I know I'm practically out there barring something over 174, which isn't very likely.

Oh and make it easy on yourselves, pass the patent bar prior to law school. It gets you 1L jobs.... maybe

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Re: Even worth trying this cycle?

Postby DavidYurman85 » Mon Jan 04, 2010 1:37 pm

You should apply next cycle to maximize on both a better score and applying earlier. My g/f has an EE degree, similar stats, but a higher LSAT score and was accepted (w/$) to some great schools. She left the engineering field for some of your same reasons: bored w/ research, wanted to make more money, etc...

Sidenote: She's an ip, BL attorney (patent prosecution and litigation) and loves the work and her firm. She has to be one of the happiest attorneys that I know.

Good Luck!

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Re: Even worth trying this cycle?

Postby 09042014 » Mon Jan 04, 2010 1:39 pm

CE2JD wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
CE2JD wrote:Every EE I know who is graduating from college this year plans on going to law school.

I know it's anecdotal, but this is either a freakish coincidence or very bad news for future EE IPers.


How many do you know? I don't know any from my class who did, but I graduated two years ago.


5 or 6. Most of them contacted me just to see if going to law school was worth it. I, of course, responded with a resounding 'NO.'


How challenging is law school compared to EE?

To everyone, does anyone know on what factors patent firms hire on? I've heard tons of conflicting information. Some say its almost entirely work experience, some say its undergrad transcript, some says its almost like regular law hiring.

If its based on undergrad transcript, lets just say I'm fucked and probably should look towards Big Law instead.

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zreinhar
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Re: Even worth trying this cycle?

Postby zreinhar » Mon Jan 04, 2010 1:41 pm

DavidYurman85 wrote:You should apply next cycle to maximize on both a better score and applying earlier. My g/f has an EE degree, similar stats, but a higher LSAT score and was accepted (w/$) to some great schools. She left the engineering field for some of your same reasons: bored w/ research, wanted to make more money, etc...

Sidenote: She's an ip, BL attorney (patent prosecution and litigation) and loves the work and her firm. She has to be one of the happiest attorneys that I know.

Good Luck!


yeah, given my engineering roots I did alot of research on IP before giving awaa 3 years and a quarter of a million dollars (rounding is fun) Given that, the IP attorneys I interviewed (6) All had the same general consensus, the job rocks, you make way more money than engineering. Its easier, you can work from home alot of the time (for the prep/pro guys) and you work less than the non-IP folk and its way easier to get jobs with the useful undergrad. I am fairly sure I am making the right decision I just hope that this Feb LSAT affords me the opportunity to show that I am really kinda of intelligent.

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Re: Even worth trying this cycle?

Postby BriaTharen » Mon Jan 04, 2010 1:42 pm

Desert Fox wrote:
JessicaTiger wrote:
CE2JD wrote:Every EE I know who is graduating from college this year plans on going to law school.

I know it's anecdotal, but this is either a freakish coincidence or very bad news for future EE IPers.


Since engineers make up about 5% of college graduates each year (excluding places like MIT) in comparison to Liberal Arts (which makes up about 25-30%), I don't think the situation will be horrendous. But it certainly amps up the competition; fortunately, based on former threads from IP lawyers, EE is the most valuable degree for IP.


Because so few went to law school. Increase the number by 20% and 15% of us probably won't get jobs.

There are what four of us on this thread alone. Probably not good news.


Maybe I'm overly-optimistic, but I think it has far more to do with the work involved for patents. Computers and electronic technology changes so quickly, I would think you would need a dearth of EEs. I don't think we will be hurting for a job, but our salaries will be lower than they have been historically.

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CE2JD
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Re: Even worth trying this cycle?

Postby CE2JD » Mon Jan 04, 2010 1:43 pm

Desert Fox wrote:
CE2JD wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
CE2JD wrote:Every EE I know who is graduating from college this year plans on going to law school.

I know it's anecdotal, but this is either a freakish coincidence or very bad news for future EE IPers.


How many do you know? I don't know any from my class who did, but I graduated two years ago.


5 or 6. Most of them contacted me just to see if going to law school was worth it. I, of course, responded with a resounding 'NO.'


How challenging is law school compared to EE?

To everyone, does anyone know on what factors patent firms hire on? I've heard tons of conflicting information. Some say its almost entirely work experience, some say its undergrad transcript, some says its almost like regular law hiring.

If its based on undergrad transcript, lets just say I'm fucked and probably should look towards Big Law instead.


I got news for you guys: if you think engineering is boring, you're in for a world of hurt at law school. Reading cases ranks somewhere between watching paint dry and watching C-SPAN in boredom induction capacity.

The subject matter in law school is easier, but there's a SHITLOAD of it and it's SUPER DUPER boring.

As for factors patent firms hire on, I'll let you know after my 1L summer interviews. :wink:

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zreinhar
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Re: Even worth trying this cycle?

Postby zreinhar » Mon Jan 04, 2010 1:47 pm

Desert Fox wrote:
CE2JD wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
CE2JD wrote:Every EE I know who is graduating from college this year plans on going to law school.

I know it's anecdotal, but this is either a freakish coincidence or very bad news for future EE IPers.


How many do you know? I don't know any from my class who did, but I graduated two years ago.


5 or 6. Most of them contacted me just to see if going to law school was worth it. I, of course, responded with a resounding 'NO.'


How challenging is law school compared to EE?

To everyone, does anyone know on what factors patent firms hire on? I've heard tons of conflicting information. Some say its almost entirely work experience, some say its undergrad transcript, some says its almost like regular law hiring.

If its based on undergrad transcript, lets just say I'm fucked and probably should look towards Big Law instead.



You need not worry. The prestige whoring goes further. Coming from Illinois and Northwestern, you will make an assload of money in your life. The majority of the IP lawyers I interviewed went to GSU Law, with one from Emory and the family friend from Maryland Law. However, they all had prestigous undergrads, mostly Georgia Tech, a Cal tech, and the Emory guy was from Auburn. Secondarily, IP lawyers who interview you also went to engineering school. They know that thermodynamics is a bitch and that controls systems is one of the most off the wall fucking classes in existence (screw you root locus) so I guess to sum it up, for IP, they care way more about undergrad school and relevant work exp. For example, I go to a small state school (read:not Georgia tech) but work at Georgia tech doing research. This will save my life with the undergrad prestige in that I am tied to a large tech school, so Im good. basically, get good grades in LS pass the patent bar and you will circumvent the entire "ITE" shit, especially coming from NU. And if you pass th epatent bar before law school you will have paying jobs 1L and 2L summers




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