Section Stacking?

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vanwinkle
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Re: Section Stacking?

Postby vanwinkle » Wed Dec 23, 2009 2:29 am

jocelyne wrote:anyone know if UCLA does this?


Sadly those bastards WL'd and then rejected me, so I have no experience with their scholarship terms.

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Cupidity
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Re: Section Stacking?

Postby Cupidity » Wed Dec 23, 2009 2:30 am

So wait, if I get into a lawschool at the bottom of their range, I might get put in a weak section? lol. lets game the system.

blsingindisguise
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Re: Section Stacking?

Postby blsingindisguise » Fri Dec 25, 2009 3:15 am

The "section-stacking" rumor goes around constantly at Brooklyn and as far as I can tell it's a myth. Everyone in my section thought WE were the stacked section, but I've since met people from three other sections who all thought THEY were the stacked section.

The reality behind the myth is that you have to be in the top 40% of the class to keep 100% of your scholarship. Many students don't make this cutoff in spite of good numbers coming in, because the numbers are an imperfect predictor.

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thesealocust
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Re: Section Stacking?

Postby thesealocust » Fri Dec 25, 2009 3:19 am

blsingindisguise wrote:The "section-stacking" rumor goes around constantly at Brooklyn and as far as I can tell it's a myth. Everyone in my section thought WE were the stacked section, but I've since met people from three other sections who all thought THEY were the stacked section.

The reality behind the myth is that you have to be in the top 40% of the class to keep 100% of your scholarship. Many students don't make this cutoff in spite of good numbers coming in, because the numbers are an imperfect predictor.


I think this is the strongest evidence yet that stacking is just a rumor that's hard to root out. Ironically, it may be the fact that schools give out so much money to 1Ls that give the rumor such legs.

Clearly having a grade requirement is still kind of mean-spirited, but it's not nearly as bad as dumping all the scholarship kids into one section.

flcath
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Re: Section Stacking?

Postby flcath » Fri Dec 25, 2009 3:25 am

blsingindisguise wrote:The "section-stacking" rumor goes around constantly at Brooklyn and as far as I can tell it's a myth. Everyone in my section thought WE were the stacked section, but I've since met people from three other sections who all thought THEY were the stacked section.

The reality behind the myth is that you have to be in the top 40% of the class to keep 100% of your scholarship. Many students don't make this cutoff in spite of good numbers coming in, because the numbers are an imperfect predictor.

I think this effect preempts any attempt to accurately gauge the existence/prevalence of section-stacking via self-reported data alone. I teach at the college level right now, and you would not believe the impossibly tenuous rationales my students will find to demonstrate how they--their section, or as individuals--are being discriminated against by the grading/section assortment process.

That having been said, the stakes are so high (your LS grades do still matter a lot, regardless of the school name on the diploma), I'd be lying if I said that I wouldn't feel more comfortable going to a school that doesn't do rank-contingent scholarships (as that removes the ostensible incentive to section stack). The concept seems too unethical for LSs to actually engage in (am I naive?), but then the TTT business model of attritting a third of your 1L class was shocking to me when I first heard about it, so who knows.

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biggamejames
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Re: Section Stacking?

Postby biggamejames » Fri Dec 25, 2009 11:03 am

CE2JD wrote:My section was stacked. :cry:

So was mine, but in a much more positive sense :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

njskatchmo
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Re: Section Stacking?

Postby njskatchmo » Mon Jan 25, 2010 12:55 pm

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Last edited by njskatchmo on Fri Feb 05, 2010 12:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

twopoodles
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Re: Section Stacking?

Postby twopoodles » Mon Jan 25, 2010 4:19 pm

OK, someone please explain this to me like I'm an idiot because I'm not getting it.

You are divided into sections...at the school I'm looking at its two sections, though they explained some odd thing where essentially there are six groups which each always stay together. OK, so, pretend I'm in group #1 and we all received a scholarship with the same top 1/3rd requirement. Pretend this school is very much stacking and there is probably at least one other group where everyone has the scholarship. These two groups are probably put in the same section. Ultimately, though, this is top 1/3 of both of the sections.

Now, you say its graded on a curve, that's the problem, right? Assuming that the scholarship people are actually going to do better, then in my section, it is theoretically more difficult to get, say, a 3.5 than it would be in the other section because the other section's curve is lower. They haven't made it more difficult for scholarship students to compete with each other, rather, they've made it EASIER for the non-scholarship students to compete with us? And as a result, the top whatever % is not the same as it would be had we all been graded on the same curve. The nonscholarship students are ranking higher than they might otherwise have? Is that the deal?

Though I understand the school might prefer to get tuition, isn't it more to their advantage to have their top students really do well, go on to great careers and enhance the schools image? That's why they give scholarships, right, to attract students with high potential? Are people suggesting they actually just want to buy you in there and then they don't care if they are distorting the %?

The school I'm looking at has a top 1/3 requirement, and it seems they give scholarships to about 1/3 of the students. Surely some people will lose it, but I would guess most of the people who received it will keep it. Am I being naive? I'm asking sincerely because this section stacking thing has me baffled.

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fenderjsm88
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Re: Section Stacking?

Postby fenderjsm88 » Tue Apr 06, 2010 7:40 pm

keg411 wrote:
vanwinkle wrote:This is mostly common outside T1 schools. I know I read last year that a few schools are especially notorious for this (*cough*Miami*cough*). Your classes are graded on a curve, and you're assigned to your 1L classes by section, so if you've all received a scholarship that requires you stay in the top 1/3 of your class, by default 2/3 of your section is going to have to lose the scholarship after the first year.

I would be extremely wary of any school that mandates minimum GPAs. You can always try to negotiate this; contact the school and tell them, "I'll commit to attending if you remove the minimum GPA requirement," or something along those lines. Their response ought to prove interesting, at least.


Has anyone tried to do this in the past? I'm curious what the response would be. If I get the opportunity I'll probably try and see what happens since negotiation is part of my job (and if I'm not as good as I think I am at it, I'll probably find out too :lol: ). But I have to get accepted somewhere first :? .


Pepperdine gave me a top 1/3rd requirement and I emailed them last night, telling them that I could not seriously consider the school until the stipulation is removed. They offered me an awesome scholarship, too, so I hope they're cooperative. Still waiting to hear back, and they're usually very good about getting back to prospective students, so hopefully that means they are considering it..

Sorry to revive this ancient thread, but this is a topic I'm very interested in, so hopefully it gets going again.

Also, someone mentioned that Indiana requires scholarship recipients to stay in the top half to keep a scholarship. They offered me a scholarship this cycle and told me that all I have to do is stay in "good standing," or not fail any classes, so I guess they changed their game up a little.

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1ferret!
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Re: Section Stacking?

Postby 1ferret! » Wed Apr 07, 2010 12:34 am

With regard to Pepperdine; I think you might have to go another way.

I know some people here with numbers several notches above yours that were unable to get the restrictions removed. If you do; congratulations. But I don't think its likely. They will negotiate dollar amounts for the right people, but I have never heard of them releasing the top third restriction.

Good luck.

BTW: section stacking should not be your concern, not happening here. Just have to outwork the lower 2/3.

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alannak
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Re: Section Stacking?

Postby alannak » Wed Apr 07, 2010 9:52 am

For whatever it's worth, when I visited Rutgers Newark last month, I asked the admissions person about section stacking and she seemed pretty flabbergasted at my question. She said that not only would it be difficult on and unfair to the students, but it would be difficult on and unfair to the professors who would have a much harder time determining grades.

She did also say that Newark arranges its sections to have "diversity" (a big theme I gathered from this school), so in addition to racial and age diversity, some but not all scholarship recipients... so maybe it's just the spirit of this particular school.

But she did make it seem like it would be a ridiculous concept to be carried out anywhere.

gmichaelbluth
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Re: Section Stacking?

Postby gmichaelbluth » Wed Apr 07, 2010 10:08 am

vanwinkle wrote:
jocelyne wrote:anyone know if UCLA does this?


Sadly those bastards WL'd and then rejected me, so I have no experience with their scholarship terms.


UCLA requires a 2.5 GPA to maintain the scholarship. Not sure what the median is, but I don't believe they're known for section stacking.

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BigFatPanda
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Re: Section Stacking?

Postby BigFatPanda » Wed Apr 07, 2010 10:09 am

This is from nativedelta on Catholic University:

Scholarships--around 75% of 1L LSAT/GPA based scholarships are lost after the first year. Yes, you read that right. Catholic stacks most of its scholarship recipients into one or two sections. My writing section, for example has more than half of its people on scholarships as does the other section we are paired with in our classes. There are other classes with almost no scholarship people in them. So what that translates to is that if you stack a section with scholarship people, only 25% of them are going to be able to keep that scholarship by being in the top 25% of the law school class when compared to all the other sections. Therefore, MOST scholarships are lost. What do they do with all this freed-up money? They then redistribute it to the new top 25% of the law school.


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