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Re: I was charged with a felony as a HS student. Is writing my PS on this experience a terrible idea?

Posted: Thu Mar 24, 2016 5:45 pm
by Tls2016
rpupkin wrote:
Tls2016 wrote:You absolutely need to delete all the personal information in your posts. You should have done it earlier.
In case you don't understand, adcomms read these forums and are able to match applicants with posts. You have made yourself easy to identify. This won't help you and could hurt you with schools where you aren't required to disclose.

OP is not an applicant this cycle. I don't see what's so imprudent about him leaving his posts here for a few days while he collects advice.

Obviously OP agrees. My opinion is it is imprudent to so fully identify yourself in association with a tricky C&F issue on a public forum. Nothing OP is doing is improving the chances of admission with his "shoe-in" numbers at Harvard.

Re: I was charged with a felony as a HS student. Is writing my PS on this experience a terrible idea?

Posted: Thu Mar 24, 2016 5:45 pm
by ms9
rpupkin wrote:
Tls2016 wrote:You absolutely need to delete all the personal information in your posts. You should have done it earlier.
In case you don't understand, adcomms read these forums and are able to match applicants with posts. You have made yourself easy to identify. This won't help you and could hurt you with schools where you aren't required to disclose.

OP is not an applicant this cycle. I don't see what's so imprudent about him leaving his posts here for a few days while he collects advice.


That's a much easier one :)

Admissions officers at a number of schools sign on daily and search their school name. Let's assume for a second that has happened. Let's also assume OP doesn't change their username. What if OP said something that simply intrigues an ADComm, who then checks in on OP's profile from time to time to see what OP is posting. These are just things people applying wouldn't want -- especially because this is a rather interesting thread.n At the most recent admissions conference I attended, one school said they were able to reverse engineer over 10% of their applicant pool from TLS. They mentioned many examples, for example someone's TLS name is also their gamil address, eg: SleepyKitty47@gmail.com

I certainly do not think the OP has said anything to offend anyone. But it's hard to know what other people find offensive or intriguing or not. Heck, I say things like "I don't think you have a great chance at the T10 with your 2.0 and 152 LSAT, so you really shouldn't use my firm if that is what you are saying you want us to do for you" and I get hate for 10 straight days." Life.

Re: I was charged with a felony as a HS student. Is writing my PS on this experience a terrible idea?

Posted: Thu Mar 24, 2016 5:53 pm
by catch20two
Admissions officers at a number of schools sign on daily and search their school name. Let's assume for a second that has happened. Let's also assume OP doesn't change their username. What if OP said something that simply intrigues an ADComm, who then checks in on OP's profile from time to time to see what OP is posting. These are just things people applying wouldn't want -- especially because this is a rather interesting thread.n At the most recent admissions conference I attended, one school said they were able to reverse engineer over 10% of their applicant pool from TLS. They mentioned many examples, for example someone's TLS name is also their gamil address, eg: SleepyKitty47@gmail.com

I certainly do not think the OP has said anything to offend anyone. But it's hard to know what other people find offensive or intriguing or not. Heck, I say things like "I don't think you have a great chance at the T10 with your 2.0 and 152 LSAT, so you really shouldn't use my firm if that is what you are saying you want us to do for you" and I get hate for 10 straight days." Life.


I'll note that this is a throwaway account that I made the same day I made this post. I'll never use it again, of course, for the reasons you mentioned. But for now, I feel that the advice I'm getting here is more than valuable enough to outweigh the infinitesimal risk that Harvard, without me disclosing this incident to them, will be able to link my random application to this post. Heck, I haven't even said where I'm from or how long ago this was. I could be a 30 year-old married man from Cleveland, or I could be a 22 year-old college student in San Jose. There's simply not enough info here to connect my application unless I disclose it there in the first place.

Thanks again for all of your advice. I truly appreciate it!

Re: I was charged with a felony as a HS student. Is writing my PS on this experience a terrible idea?

Posted: Thu Mar 24, 2016 5:56 pm
by ms9
catch20two wrote:
Admissions officers at a number of schools sign on daily and search their school name. Let's assume for a second that has happened. Let's also assume OP doesn't change their username. What if OP said something that simply intrigues an ADComm, who then checks in on OP's profile from time to time to see what OP is posting. These are just things people applying wouldn't want -- especially because this is a rather interesting thread.n At the most recent admissions conference I attended, one school said they were able to reverse engineer over 10% of their applicant pool from TLS. They mentioned many examples, for example someone's TLS name is also their gamil address, eg: SleepyKitty47@gmail.com

I certainly do not think the OP has said anything to offend anyone. But it's hard to know what other people find offensive or intriguing or not. Heck, I say things like "I don't think you have a great chance at the T10 with your 2.0 and 152 LSAT, so you really shouldn't use my firm if that is what you are saying you want us to do for you" and I get hate for 10 straight days." Life.


I'll note that this is a throwaway account that I made the same day I made this post. I'll never use it again, of course, for the reasons you mentioned. But for now, I feel that the advice I'm getting here is more than valuable enough to outweigh the infinitesimal risk that Harvard, without me disclosing this incident to them, will be able to link my random application to this post. Heck, I haven't even said where I'm from or how long ago this was. I could be a 30 year-old married man from Cleveland, or I could be a 22 year-old college student in San Jose. There's simply not enough info here to connect my application unless I disclose it there in the first place.

Thanks again for all of your advice. I truly appreciate it!


good call!

Also, don't use "SleepyKitty47" when you make a new account.

Re: I was charged with a felony as a HS student. Is writing my PS on this experience a terrible idea?

Posted: Thu Mar 24, 2016 6:19 pm
by to116
Dont know which schools you're targeting but I think this sounds like it could be interesting. That being said, maybe save it for the schools that are known to be more liberal (ie/ NYU, Yale)?

Re: I was charged with a felony as a HS student. Is writing my PS on this experience a terrible idea?

Posted: Thu Mar 24, 2016 6:25 pm
by A. Nony Mouse
to116 wrote:Dont know which schools you're targeting but I think this sounds like it could be interesting. That being said, maybe save it for the schools that are known to be more liberal (ie/ NYU, Yale)?

Did you read anything else in this thread?

Re: I was charged with a felony as a HS student. Is writing my PS on this experience a terrible idea?

Posted: Thu Mar 24, 2016 6:53 pm
by rpupkin
to116 wrote:Dont know which schools you're targeting but I think this sounds like it could be interesting. That being said, maybe save it for the schools that are known to be more liberal (ie/ NYU, Yale)?

Good point. NYU and YLS are known for their pro-embezzlement faculties.

Re: I was charged with a felony as a HS student. Is writing my PS on this experience a terrible idea?

Posted: Thu Mar 24, 2016 7:00 pm
by rpupkin
MikeSpivey wrote:At the most recent admissions conference I attended, one school said they were able to reverse engineer over 10% of their applicant pool from TLS.

If true, I'll just note that it's odd--actually, it's downright creepy--for a school to "reverse engineer" as many applicants as the school can from TLS. I can certainly understand an adcomm browsing TLS and recognizing a distinctive applicant profile. But systematically matching as many applicants as possible to TLS profiles? In addition to being unduly invasive, it's also unfair--I'm sure there are false positives.

Re: I was charged with a felony as a HS student. Is writing my PS on this experience a terrible idea?

Posted: Thu Mar 24, 2016 7:16 pm
by Clearly
I've had adcomms tell me my username before lol. Its certainly creepy, but it does happen.

Re: I was charged with a felony as a HS student. Is writing my PS on this experience a terrible idea?

Posted: Thu Mar 24, 2016 8:07 pm
by jrass
rpupkin wrote:
MikeSpivey wrote:At the most recent admissions conference I attended, one school said they were able to reverse engineer over 10% of their applicant pool from TLS.

If true, I'll just note that it's odd--actually, it's downright creepy--for a school to "reverse engineer" as many applicants as the school can from TLS. I can certainly understand an adcomm browsing TLS and recognizing a distinctive applicant profile. But systematically matching as many applicants as possible to TLS profiles? In addition to being unduly invasive, it's also unfair--I'm sure there are false positives.

I'd imagine most of the engineering is fueled by boredom.

Re: I was charged with a felony as a HS student. Is writing my PS on this experience a terrible idea?

Posted: Thu Mar 24, 2016 8:21 pm
by Tls2016
jrass wrote:
rpupkin wrote:
MikeSpivey wrote:At the most recent admissions conference I attended, one school said they were able to reverse engineer over 10% of their applicant pool from TLS.

If true, I'll just note that it's odd--actually, it's downright creepy--for a school to "reverse engineer" as many applicants as the school can from TLS. I can certainly understand an adcomm browsing TLS and recognizing a distinctive applicant profile. But systematically matching as many applicants as possible to TLS profiles? In addition to being unduly invasive, it's also unfair--I'm sure there are false positives.

I'd imagine most of the engineering is fueled by boredom.

It can't take that long given they have all the applicants info in front of them. Probably helps them know more about the student and their likelihood of attending.

Re: I was charged with a felony as a HS student. Is writing my PS on this experience a terrible idea?

Posted: Thu Mar 24, 2016 8:37 pm
by FlanAl
Exposing my naivete but the fact that juvenile records are considered for C&F is really disturbing to me. Given the trend in juvenile law lately (Miller etc.) I would sincerely hope that this changes in the future. What's the point of even having juvenile court? Looking back on this, maybe you were a minor charged as an adult? In any case, still messed up that you have to deal with this.

I have a different take on this than anyone else in the thread but I think it could be useful. Depending on the jurisdiction you live in maybe your family did need to hire a private attorney for you to have good representation. But any one of the professors/adcomms who is going to have sympathy for this as a personal statement is also going to have ties to a public defenders office or be very sympathetic to the work that they do. If the theme is "I didn't do anything, my parents hired a real lawyer and my case got dismissed, let me come to Harvard to do M&A when I graduate" I really don't think that it plays that well. If your desire is to help people that found themselves in your situation then I would suggest that you save this experience for your public defender interviews. Maybe, also use it to forge a relationship with Dershowitz (if he's still there). Unless your move is 100% criminal defense and you have the experience (investigator internships etc.) to back it up I don't think it's worth the risk. This could also work well if you wanted to be a prosecutor but again, the narrative needs to be, "this happened and since that day I've been doing what I can to make sure other people don't have the same experience etc."

Re: I was charged with a felony as a HS student. Is writing my PS on this experience a terrible idea?

Posted: Thu Mar 24, 2016 8:40 pm
by A. Nony Mouse
Just a comment that he didn't say he was a juvenile. He said he was in high school. There are plenty of 18 year olds in high school.

Re: I was charged with a felony as a HS student. Is writing my PS on this experience a terrible idea?

Posted: Thu Mar 24, 2016 8:42 pm
by rpupkin
A. Nony Mouse wrote:Just a comment that he didn't say he was a juvenile. He said he was in high school. There are plenty of 18 year olds in high school.

Actually, OP did say that he was 17 at the time.

Re: I was charged with a felony as a HS student. Is writing my PS on this experience a terrible idea?

Posted: Thu Mar 24, 2016 8:44 pm
by lacrossebrother
Based on the prevailing view in this thread that arrest discrimination is real, you should definitely write the essay and use it to apply to some reaches, and not so subtly add to the essay how you're very glad the EEOC and states are taking a harder look at this type of thing now, and that you want to help with that.

Re: I was charged with a felony as a HS student. Is writing my PS on this experience a terrible idea?

Posted: Thu Mar 24, 2016 8:56 pm
by rpupkin
lacrossebrother wrote:Based on the prevailing view in this thread that arrest discrimination is real, you should definitely write the essay and use it to apply to some reaches, and not so subtly add to the essay how you're very glad the EEOC and states are taking a harder look at this type of thing now, and that you want to help with that.

What are "reaches" for an applicant who is above the 75th percentile for both GPA and LSAT at Harvard?

Re: I was charged with a felony as a HS student. Is writing my PS on this experience a terrible idea?

Posted: Thu Mar 24, 2016 9:00 pm
by A. Nony Mouse
rpupkin wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:Just a comment that he didn't say he was a juvenile. He said he was in high school. There are plenty of 18 year olds in high school.

Actually, OP did say that he was 17 at the time.

Oh, my apologies, OP, I missed that. I was going off the line in the OP about being old enough to be an adult in the eyes of the law for criminal proceedings. It makes it sound like he was at least charged as an adult (which I think would be fair game for questions on LS apps).

Re: I was charged with a felony as a HS student. Is writing my PS on this experience a terrible idea?

Posted: Thu Mar 24, 2016 9:02 pm
by orangered
rpupkin wrote:
lacrossebrother wrote:Based on the prevailing view in this thread that arrest discrimination is real, you should definitely write the essay and use it to apply to some reaches, and not so subtly add to the essay how you're very glad the EEOC and states are taking a harder look at this type of thing now, and that you want to help with that.

What are "reaches" for an applicant who is above the 75th percentile for GPA and LSAT at Harvard?


Yale? And it sounds like he has the perfect 250 topic! And to lacrossebrother: I agree, he should write about the arrest discrimination he encountered on TLS.

Re: I was charged with a felony as a HS student. Is writing my PS on this experience a terrible idea?

Posted: Thu Mar 24, 2016 9:03 pm
by ms9
rpupkin wrote:
lacrossebrother wrote:Based on the prevailing view in this thread that arrest discrimination is real, you should definitely write the essay and use it to apply to some reaches, and not so subtly add to the essay how you're very glad the EEOC and states are taking a harder look at this type of thing now, and that you want to help with that.

What are "reaches" for an applicant who is above the 75th percentile for both GPA and LSAT at Harvard?


He was joking from the get go.

This thread has gotten way too serious. So this is for everyone: https://twitter.com/SpiveyConsult/statu ... 2539939841

Re: I was charged with a felony as a HS student. Is writing my PS on this experience a terrible idea?

Posted: Thu Mar 24, 2016 9:06 pm
by lacrossebrother
MikeSpivey wrote:
rpupkin wrote:
lacrossebrother wrote:Based on the prevailing view in this thread that arrest discrimination is real, you should definitely write the essay and use it to apply to some reaches, and not so subtly add to the essay how you're very glad the EEOC and states are taking a harder look at this type of thing now, and that you want to help with that.

What are "reaches" for an applicant who is above the 75th percentile for both GPA and LSAT at Harvard?


He was joking from the get go.

This thread has gotten way too serious. So this is for everyone: https://twitter.com/SpiveyConsult/statu ... 2539939841

You had to pimp your Twitter? Couldn't just post the picture?

Re: I was charged with a felony as a HS student. Is writing my PS on this experience a terrible idea?

Posted: Thu Mar 24, 2016 9:09 pm
by ms9
lacrossebrother wrote:
MikeSpivey wrote:
rpupkin wrote:
lacrossebrother wrote:Based on the prevailing view in this thread that arrest discrimination is real, you should definitely write the essay and use it to apply to some reaches, and not so subtly add to the essay how you're very glad the EEOC and states are taking a harder look at this type of thing now, and that you want to help with that.

What are "reaches" for an applicant who is above the 75th percentile for both GPA and LSAT at Harvard?


He was joking from the get go.

This thread has gotten way too serious. So this is for everyone: https://twitter.com/SpiveyConsult/statu ... 2539939841

You had to pimp your Twitter? Couldn't just post the picture?


I could if I knew how.

Re: I was charged with a felony as a HS student. Is writing my PS on this experience a terrible idea?

Posted: Thu Mar 24, 2016 9:10 pm
by lacrossebrother
:lol: ok fair

Re: I was charged with a felony as a HS student. Is writing my PS on this experience a terrible idea?

Posted: Thu Mar 24, 2016 9:10 pm
by rpupkin
MikeSpivey wrote:
rpupkin wrote:
lacrossebrother wrote:Based on the prevailing view in this thread that arrest discrimination is real, you should definitely write the essay and use it to apply to some reaches, and not so subtly add to the essay how you're very glad the EEOC and states are taking a harder look at this type of thing now, and that you want to help with that.

What are "reaches" for an applicant who is above the 75th percentile for both GPA and LSAT at Harvard?


He was joking from the get go.

This thread has gotten way too serious. So this is for everyone: https://twitter.com/SpiveyConsult/statu ... 2539939841

Yeah, whatever. Do you have leaks from the 2018 USNWR rankings yet?

Re: I was charged with a felony as a HS student. Is writing my PS on this experience a terrible idea?

Posted: Thu Mar 24, 2016 9:12 pm
by ms9
rpupkin wrote:
MikeSpivey wrote:
rpupkin wrote:
lacrossebrother wrote:Based on the prevailing view in this thread that arrest discrimination is real, you should definitely write the essay and use it to apply to some reaches, and not so subtly add to the essay how you're very glad the EEOC and states are taking a harder look at this type of thing now, and that you want to help with that.

What are "reaches" for an applicant who is above the 75th percentile for both GPA and LSAT at Harvard?


He was joking from the get go.

This thread has gotten way too serious. So this is for everyone: https://twitter.com/SpiveyConsult/statu ... 2539939841

Yeah, whatever. Do you have leaks from the 2018 USNWR rankings yet?


Yale #1. 47 way tie at #2.

Re: I was charged with a felony as a HS student. Is writing my PS on this experience a terrible idea?

Posted: Fri Mar 25, 2016 3:54 pm
by jrass
FlanAl wrote:Exposing my naivete but the fact that juvenile records are considered for C&F is really disturbing to me. Given the trend in juvenile law lately (Miller etc.) I would sincerely hope that this changes in the future. What's the point of even having juvenile court? Looking back on this, maybe you were a minor charged as an adult? In any case, still messed up that you have to deal with this.

I have a different take on this than anyone else in the thread but I think it could be useful. Depending on the jurisdiction you live in maybe your family did need to hire a private attorney for you to have good representation. But any one of the professors/adcomms who is going to have sympathy for this as a personal statement is also going to have ties to a public defenders office or be very sympathetic to the work that they do. If the theme is "I didn't do anything, my parents hired a real lawyer and my case got dismissed, let me come to Harvard to do M&A when I graduate" I really don't think that it plays that well. If your desire is to help people that found themselves in your situation then I would suggest that you save this experience for your public defender interviews. Maybe, also use it to forge a relationship with Dershowitz (if he's still there). Unless your move is 100% criminal defense and you have the experience (investigator internships etc.) to back it up I don't think it's worth the risk. This could also work well if you wanted to be a prosecutor but again, the narrative needs to be, "this happened and since that day I've been doing what I can to make sure other people don't have the same experience etc."

It's illegal for employers to consider it. Obviously if it wasn't there'd be a disparate impact on any group likelier to be falsely accused of a crime. I imagine with C&F it's more about a pattern. If someone had one dismissed shoplifting charge, and a guilty shoplifting charge, the dismissed one could be the difference in denial where as if there was only the dismissed charge it'd be a non-factor. With employment there's a more limited set if spots - if 2 people are similar and one was wrongly accused of a felony they're probably f'd. With C&F just because it raises eyebrows doesn't mean there's an adverse reaction.