Advice? Not good. Got something? Say it.

(Personal Statement Examples, Advice, Critique, . . . )
seacow
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Advice? Not good. Got something? Say it.

Postby seacow » Fri Jul 20, 2012 10:07 pm

Sorry to be overflowing the board here with new topics. But I just had an epiphany.

If you have something to say: just say it. Don't overthink it and have it be so complex and convoluted that it loses that original freshness. A PS/DS should be (is) the opportunity for the adcomm to get to know you. It's your five-minute interview, as I saw in a recent post.

I have a great DS; my writing of that will be quick. My PS will be slightly more difficult but it will likewise not be overworked.

Keep it fresh and keep those original ideas in mind. Be critical and seek advice, but don't think you got to include everything about you ever.


...And if you don't have anything to say, I got nothing for you. Sorry. :)

seacow
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Re: Advice? Not good. Got something? Say it.

Postby seacow » Fri Jul 20, 2012 10:07 pm

(Please tell me if I am completely wrong)

thederangedwang
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Re: Advice? Not good. Got something? Say it.

Postby thederangedwang » Fri Jul 20, 2012 10:43 pm

so you're giving/regurgitating advice on something you havent done yet?

Edit: ah, i see, this thread is in response to people calling you out in this thread here,

viewtopic.php?f=18&t=188811#p5724319

word of advice, prob dont give advice on stuff you havent done yet. And you're wrong. Listen to Kwais

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Nova
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Re: Advice? Not good. Got something? Say it.

Postby Nova » Fri Jul 20, 2012 11:24 pm

Image

seacow
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Re: Advice? Not good. Got something? Say it.

Postby seacow » Fri Jul 20, 2012 11:33 pm

Ah I see your "ah I see" was put in for d-bag effect.

D-Bag city.

This is a discussion forum not a "let's sit in my ivory tower" forum. Your comment is weak sauce.

But seriously, explain to me how I'm wrong.


Also, the fact that you got into Harvard doesn't mean you are an expert on this. In fact, nothing in that link you provide proves that you know anything about a PS. You've wrote one? I have too.

thederangedwang
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Re: Advice? Not good. Got something? Say it.

Postby thederangedwang » Fri Jul 20, 2012 11:37 pm

seacow wrote:Ah I see your "ah I see" was put in for d-bag effect.

D-Bag city.

This is a discussion forum not a "let's sit in my ivory tower" forum. Your comment is weak sauce.

But seriously, explain to me how I'm wrong.


Also, the fact that you got into Harvard doesn't mean you are an expert on this. In fact, nothing in that link you provide proves that you know anything about a PS. You've wrote one? I have too.

if you tried reading my lsn profile, which you clearly glanced at, maybe you would know why i think (along with basically everybody else in that other thread) your approach is wrong.

But i get my lsn is kinda long, long story short, my ps was well received by adcomms and it was the type Kwais advocated.

Look dude. The fact of the matter is you havent even gone through this process and even though TLS is a bit unrepresentative, the fact that numerous people have told you that your approach to the PS is wrong should mean something.

Edit: specific reasons for why you're wrong was already said by Kwais..but you simply pushed back against it..so whatever.

seacow
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Re: Advice? Not good. Got something? Say it.

Postby seacow » Fri Jul 20, 2012 11:51 pm

thederangedwang wrote:
seacow wrote:Ah I see your "ah I see" was put in for d-bag effect.

D-Bag city.

This is a discussion forum not a "let's sit in my ivory tower" forum. Your comment is weak sauce.

But seriously, explain to me how I'm wrong.


Also, the fact that you got into Harvard doesn't mean you are an expert on this. In fact, nothing in that link you provide proves that you know anything about a PS. You've wrote one? I have too.

if you tried reading my lsn profile, which you clearly glanced at, maybe you would know why i think (along with basically everybody else in that other thread) your approach is wrong.

But i get my lsn is kinda long, long story short, my ps was well received by adcomms and it was the type Kwais advocated.

Look dude. The fact of the matter is you havent even gone through this process and even though TLS is a bit unrepresentative, the fact that numerous people have told you that your approach to the PS is wrong should mean something.

Edit: specific reasons for why you're wrong was already said by Kwais..but you simply pushed back against it..so whatever.



How do you know your PS was well-received? Just wondering.

Also, quit asserting things. A lot of people thought that poster's PS was bad for the reasons I presented. It's not the case that "basically everyone disagreed" and I am not "simply pushing back against it."

Ugh. This is immaterial. Stop being a d-bag and feeding into this hyper-elitism that goes on here. Listen to people who have lower numbers.




OK. Immaterial. Now, tell me where I am wrong. I have a DS, LOR, and a resume that will speak to my kindness, curiousity, resiliency etc. I've framed them to do so. Now, why, in my PS, should I not solely focus on my interest in law?

I get it. If you are wealthy/your dad is an attorney/you don't have softs that suggest your congeniality, you might want to express the sorts of things you advocate. However, if you are from Mobile, Alabama and you have spent the past two years working in an orphanage in Ecuador, need you really to talk about how nice of a person you are? You should use the PS to explain your interest in law.

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PaulKriske
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Re: Advice? Not good. Got something? Say it.

Postby PaulKriske » Fri Jul 20, 2012 11:53 pm

seacow wrote:
thederangedwang wrote:
seacow wrote:Ah I see your "ah I see" was put in for d-bag effect.

D-Bag city.

This is a discussion forum not a "let's sit in my ivory tower" forum. Your comment is weak sauce.

But seriously, explain to me how I'm wrong.


Also, the fact that you got into Harvard doesn't mean you are an expert on this. In fact, nothing in that link you provide proves that you know anything about a PS. You've wrote one? I have too.

if you tried reading my lsn profile, which you clearly glanced at, maybe you would know why i think (along with basically everybody else in that other thread) your approach is wrong.

But i get my lsn is kinda long, long story short, my ps was well received by adcomms and it was the type Kwais advocated.

Look dude. The fact of the matter is you havent even gone through this process and even though TLS is a bit unrepresentative, the fact that numerous people have told you that your approach to the PS is wrong should mean something.

Edit: specific reasons for why you're wrong was already said by Kwais..but you simply pushed back against it..so whatever.



How do you know your PS was well-received? Just wondering.

Also, quit asserting things. A lot of people thought that poster's PS was bad for the reasons I presented. It's not the case that "basically everyone disagreed" and I am not "simply pushing back against it."

Ugh. This is immaterial. Stop being a d-bag and feeding into this hyper-elitism that goes on here. Listen to people who have lower numbers.




OK. Immaterial. Now, tell me where I am wrong. I have a DS, LOR, and a resume that will speak to my kindness, curiousity, resiliency etc. I've framed them to do so. Now, why, in my PS, should I not solely focus on my interest in law?

I get it. If you are wealthy/your dad is an attorney/you don't have softs that suggest your congeniality, you might want to express the sorts of things you advocate. However, if you are from Mobile, Alabama and you have spent the past two years working in an orphanage in Ecuador, need you really to talk about how nice of a person you are? You should use the PS to explain your interest in law.



you sound like your ps blows.

seacow
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Re: Advice? Not good. Got something? Say it.

Postby seacow » Fri Jul 20, 2012 11:56 pm

PaulKriske wrote:

you sound like your ps blows.


What does this even mean? And why would you say it?

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PaulKriske
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Re: Advice? Not good. Got something? Say it.

Postby PaulKriske » Sat Jul 21, 2012 12:00 am

seacow wrote:
PaulKriske wrote:

you sound like your ps blows.


What does this even mean? And why would you say it?



do you understand what immaterial means? and you shouldn't insult those who take your shit OP seriously and provide feedback.

seacow
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Re: Advice? Not good. Got something? Say it.

Postby seacow » Sat Jul 21, 2012 12:11 am

PaulKriske wrote:
seacow wrote:
PaulKriske wrote:

you sound like your ps blows.


What does this even mean? And why would you say it?



do you understand what immaterial means? and you shouldn't insult those who take your shit OP seriously and provide feedback.


Mostly. I was trying to say "it doesn't matter" but I was trying to use a big word so my words would carry more weight. Did I use it correctly?

See how meta I'm being now? Sarcastically appealing to your great knowledge of T3-ness. That surely makes my presents here viable now.

See how meta I'm being now?




And nothing in any of the above remarks qualifies as feedback.

D-bag land.

thederangedwang
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Re: Advice? Not good. Got something? Say it.

Postby thederangedwang » Sat Jul 21, 2012 12:11 am

seacow wrote:How do you know your PS was well-received? Just wondering.

Also, quit asserting things. A lot of people thought that poster's PS was bad for the reasons I presented. It's not the case that "basically everyone disagreed" and I am not "simply pushing back against it."

Ugh. This is immaterial. Stop being a d-bag and feeding into this hyper-elitism that goes on here. Listen to people who have lower numbers.

OK. Immaterial. Now, tell me where I am wrong. I have a DS, LOR, and a resume that will speak to my kindness, curiousity, resiliency etc. I've framed them to do so. Now, why, in my PS, should I not solely focus on my interest in law?

I get it. If you are wealthy/your dad is an attorney/you don't have softs that suggest your congeniality, you might want to express the sorts of things you advocate. However, if you are from Mobile, Alabama and you have spent the past two years working in an orphanage in Ecuador, need you really to talk about how nice of a person you are? You should use the PS to explain your interest in law.


1) Did you not read my LSN profile? I got feedback from the Deans of Georgetown, NYU, and Harvard. On my acceptance letter for NYU and Gtown, the deans hand wrote me a note saying how they enjoyed reading my statement. The harvard dean mentioned how she "enjoyed reading my PS" when she was doing the interview with me.

2) I was referring to you. EVERYBODY in that other thread said that the advice you were giving out was wrong. I was referring to this statement.

seacow wrote:I also think you should scrap it and start over. Most fundamentally, a PS should explain why you'll be a great lawyer. This only says you are a responsible and decent person. These traits suggest you'll be a good lawyer, but only implicitly.

Perhaps a shortened version of this could serve as a good DS?


Everything that is bolded is wrong. I was referring to this statement when I said that you should take something away from the fact that even though tls is unrepresentative sample, you should listen when TLS overwhelmingly suggests something. In this case, TLS posters have overwhelmingly said that this particularly piece of advice that you offered is flat out wrong. So you should listen

3) I really cant offer you any more reasons other than the reasons Kwais stated in the other thread. A PERSONAL statement is supposed to be PERSONAL. About you, who you are as a person..your characteristics, personality, etc. It is NOT called a Statement of Purpose or Statement of Intent for a reason. Just think about that. Why do they call it the PS and not a Statement of Interest/Purpose/Intent? The answer is simple and obvious. They want you to have a chance to showcase who you are, not why you are going to law school or what your dreams are. They want the answer to the question of WHO ARE YOU?

4) Stop being such a butthurt pussy. TLS can be a rough place, but for godsakes its an internet forum. Even though we can and will be d-bags, that doesnt mean the advice we are giving is wrong. FOCUS on the substance, not the delivery. If you think the tone of the advice we give is too harsh for you, then whatever. But you need to understand, just cause we're d-bags and the tone of our voice is too harsh for your sweet sensitive pussy, doesnt mean what we say is wrong and it certainly doesnt mean you should ignore our advice.

Like I said, focus on what we say, not the manner of which we say it.

Edit: and stop with all this faux elitism crap. Im not talking like this cuz i got into harvard, im talking like cuz you seem to be rejecting advice from people more expierienced than you.

I mean honestly, dude, you have not even gone through this process yet. For god sakes its arrogant of you to think you know more than the many TLSusers, me included, who have gone through this process and recieved feedback

seacow
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Re: Advice? Not good. Got something? Say it.

Postby seacow » Sat Jul 21, 2012 12:37 am

OK, OK. Great points. This has been really instructive. Thinking about just making my DS my PS and leaving it like that.


But one final point: Why would I want to listen to someone whose feedback is: your an arrogant asshole and you're wrong. If you are here to exude success, Harvardness, and digital sexual attraction from lurking females, then continue the d-bag-ness. But if you are here for instructive purposes, explain yourself and why you're right, otherwise no one is going to listen to a dude who communicates in such a manner.

Oh and cheers for calling me gay for arguing my points. Are you serious, bro? So weak! I hope you grow up at Harvard.

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Nova
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Re: Advice? Not good. Got something? Say it.

Postby Nova » Sat Jul 21, 2012 12:39 am

seacow wrote: D-bag land.


You are way off

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kwais
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Re: Advice? Not good. Got something? Say it.

Postby kwais » Sat Jul 21, 2012 12:42 am

I would add that people's interest in law changes, especially because it is often initially based on some naive things like the time that your next door neighbor got deported and you were outraged or the time you did a 1 week mission trip to Southeast Asia and realized that there is injustice in the world, or the teacher in UG who illuminated Plato for you.

Writing about these things is not only unpersuasive but often counterproductive if you come off as someone who is unrealistic.

You talk about adcomms not wanting people to drop out. True. You know who is at risk for dropping out? The kid who went to law school to change immigration policy in this country. I like law school very much but I would've been crushed by the reality of it if I did not have more moderate expectations for the law, the profession and my place in it.

I too got some good feedback on my PS from adcomms and it was because it was different. It was because after reading 39 of your kind of PS, they read something that was not like that.

In the end, I do not think we are that far apart on this issue. I agree that in the end of the essay the reader should feel that you want to be in law school and that you'll do well, but the path to get there simply does not have to be a straight line.

seacow
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Re: Advice? Not good. Got something? Say it.

Postby seacow » Sat Jul 21, 2012 12:55 am

kwais wrote:I would add that people's interest in law changes, especially because it is often initially based on some naive things like the time that your next door neighbor got deported and you were outraged or the time you did a 1 week mission trip to Southeast Asia and realized that there is injustice in the world, or the teacher in UG who illuminated Plato for you.

Writing about these things is not only unpersuasive but often counterproductive if you come off as someone who is unrealistic.

You talk about adcomms not wanting people to drop out. True. You know who is at risk for dropping out? The kid who went to law <a class="inlineAdmedialink" href="#">school</a> to change immigration policy in this country. I like law school very much but I would've been crushed by the reality of it if I did not have more moderate expectations for the law, the profession and my place in it.

I too got some good feedback on my PS from adcomms and it was because it was different. It was because after reading 39 of your kind of PS, they read something that was not like that.

In the end, I do not think we are that far apart on this issue. I agree that in the end of the essay the reader should feel that you want to be in law school and that you'll do well, but the path to get there simply does not have to be a straight line.


Excellent points. Awesome.

Really going to take this heart and seriously consider morphing my DS into a PS.

Thanks for chiming in.

thederangedwang
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Re: Advice? Not good. Got something? Say it.

Postby thederangedwang » Sat Jul 21, 2012 9:36 am

seacow wrote:OK, OK. Great points. This has been really instructive. Thinking about just making my DS my PS and leaving it like that.


But one final point: Why would I want to listen to someone whose feedback is: your an arrogant asshole and you're wrong. If you are here to exude success, Harvardness, and digital sexual attraction from lurking females, then continue the d-bag-ness. But if you are here for instructive purposes, explain yourself and why you're right, otherwise no one is going to listen to a dude who communicates in such a manner.

Oh and cheers for calling me gay for arguing my points. Are you serious, bro? So weak! I hope you grow up at Harvard.

Well like I said, just cause someone talks like a d-bag or is one doesnt mean they're wrong or that their advice is any less valuable. Indeed, if you decide not to listen to my advice simply because of my tone or who you believe me to be, you are actually committing a LSAT style logical fallacy. You should listen to us simply because we are offering you advice on how not to make typical mistakes. I already explained myself why I think I'm right. The Personal Statement is supposed to be personal, it is not a statement of intent/purpose/interest.

Having said that, its important to answer the question of why you are going to law school. If you tell a great story that leaves the reader wondering, ok he's a great story teller but i still dont know why he wants to go to law school instead of becoming a published author, then you have failed. However, that does not mean devoting your entire PS in an explicit fashion to answering this question. A subtle or implicit connection is all that is needed.

Also, I never called you gay, referenced gayness, or questioned your sexuality in any way. I called you a sensitive pussy. If you think that means "gay" then you have got some issues.

On a different note, please consider buying this book

http://www.amazon.com/The-Ivey-Guide-Sc ... 745&sr=1-1

She devotes an entire chapter to writing PS. The advice is good. And maybe hearing it for the former dean of Uchi could convince you.

seacow
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Re: Advice? Not good. Got something? Say it.

Postby seacow » Sat Jul 21, 2012 11:31 am

thederangedwang wrote:
seacow wrote:OK, OK. Great points. This has been really instructive. Thinking about just making my DS my PS and leaving it like that.


But one final point: Why would I want to listen to someone whose feedback is: your an arrogant asshole and you're wrong. If you are here to exude success, Harvardness, and digital sexual attraction from lurking females, then continue the d-bag-ness. But if you are here for instructive purposes, explain yourself and why you're right, otherwise no one is going to listen to a dude who communicates in such a manner.

Oh and cheers for calling me gay for arguing my points. Are you serious, bro? So weak! I hope you grow up at Harvard.

Well like I said, just cause someone talks like a d-bag or is one doesnt mean they're wrong or that their advice is any less valuable. Indeed, if you decide not to listen to my advice simply because of my tone or who you believe me to be, you are actually committing a LSAT style logical fallacy. You should listen to us simply because we are offering you advice on how not to make typical mistakes. I already explained myself why I think I'm right. The Personal Statement is supposed to be personal, it is not a statement of intent/purpose/interest.

Having said that, its important to answer the question of why you are going to law school. If you tell a great story that leaves the reader wondering, ok he's a great story teller but i still dont know why he wants to go to law school instead of becoming a published author, then you have failed. However, that does not mean devoting your entire PS in an explicit <a class="inlineAdmedialink" href="#">fashion</a> to answering this question. A subtle or implicit connection is all that is needed.

Also, I never called you gay, referenced gayness, or questioned your sexuality in any way. I called you a sensitive pussy. If you think that means "gay" then you have got some issues.

On a different note, please consider buying this book

http://www. class="inlineAdmedialink" href="#">amazon</a>.com/The-Ivey-Guide-School-Admissions/dp/0156029790/ref=la_B001IGO93O_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1342877745&sr=1-1

She devotes an entire chapter to writing PS. The advice is good. And maybe hearing it for the former dean of Uchi could convince you.


I'm already convinced. It's pretty clear I'm mostly wrong here. After looking at my CV, UG major, etc. the question begs why I want to become a lawyer. But as you said, I think it may be better to deal with this implicitly in my PS, rather than devoting the entire PS to it.


To be clear, I wasn't committing an LSAT-style logical fallacy because I didn't lose to your d-bag-ery. Many people communicate in here in a d-bag-ery fashion. Many of them same people don't know what they are talking about. It happens that you do. And you had to prove it.

You absolutely referenced my gayness - or at least questioned my masculinity, which is quite a lame thing to do just because I am arguing my points. It's even lamer you do this over TLS.


Seriously, though. Thank you for taking time to talk this out with me. It helped me a lot.

thederangedwang
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Re: Advice? Not good. Got something? Say it.

Postby thederangedwang » Sat Jul 21, 2012 11:38 am

Yep. Anytime. Feel free to post your PS draft when you're done so we can review it and tell you how it sucks. :wink:

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CorkBoard
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Re: Advice? Not good. Got something? Say it.

Postby CorkBoard » Sat Jul 21, 2012 2:03 pm

Why did you need to start an entire thread for this?




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