Being a Lawyer

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sparty99
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Being a Lawyer

Postby sparty99 » Sun Feb 06, 2011 10:25 pm

Are there any lawyers that actually like their job? I always hear people (at least online) complain about being a lawyer - the hours, the student debt/low paying job, the boring work. They then talk about how they could earn more in consulting or wall-street.

But why do so many people go into law if it sucks so much? The number of people that earn $200k in wall-street is small. Also, those people work long hours and many who went to get a MBA saw the high paying jobs in consulting/investment banking go out the door.

The salary of a lawyer is still one of the highest in America. Therefore I don't understand why everyone acts like it's the worst profession ever. Even if you get laid off as a lawyer, the next day you can start your own law firm.....I would think this is a good thing.

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helloperson
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Re: Being a Lawyer

Postby helloperson » Sun Feb 06, 2011 11:00 pm

Not everyone who goes to law school gets to be a lawyer. Also, you posted this in the wrong forum.

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AreJay711
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Re: Being a Lawyer

Postby AreJay711 » Sun Feb 06, 2011 11:03 pm

I know a partner at a large firm that likes his job but I think a lot of people just go in with the wrong expectation of what being a lawyer is really like and cant afford to quit because of all the loans.

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Veyron
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Re: Being a Lawyer

Postby Veyron » Sun Feb 06, 2011 11:14 pm

You are DEAD wrong about the salary for new grads. Legal salaries appear high because law used to be a lucrative profession and lots of old people who got in at a good time make a good living in the field. For most people, law school is one of the worst possible investments that you can make. About 1/2 of all grads will never use their JD (most because they cannot find a job).

That being said:

Page 38 and 39

http://books.google.com/books?id=x1gjXc ... &q&f=false
Last edited by Veyron on Sun Feb 06, 2011 11:17 pm, edited 3 times in total.

ShakeDemHatersOff
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Re: Being a Lawyer

Postby ShakeDemHatersOff » Sun Feb 06, 2011 11:15 pm

people are just stupid and complain alot

they also are deluded into thinking that they are owed something

if you realize that you are owed nothing in this world and that nothing comes easy....then you won't be one of these whiners

dakatz
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Re: Being a Lawyer

Postby dakatz » Sun Feb 06, 2011 11:18 pm

I'm not going to lie and say that there aren't a bunch of unhappy lawyers. But just keep in mind that most people who enjoy their jobs don't go online to proclaim their joy. So you only ever hear from one side of the coin.

sparty99
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Re: Being a Lawyer

Postby sparty99 » Sun Feb 06, 2011 11:37 pm

I never commented on the specific salaries of law graduates. However, research by the government shows it is lucrative. Or at least decent.

After 9 months, all graduates earn $68,000 on average. Private practice is $108,000. Academic is the lowest at $48,000.

I think $70,000 is a decent salary.

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Veyron
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Re: Being a Lawyer

Postby Veyron » Sun Feb 06, 2011 11:49 pm

sparty99 wrote:I never commented on the specific salaries of law graduates. However, research by the government shows it is lucrative. Or at least decent.

After 9 months, all graduates earn $68,000 on average. Private practice is $108,000. Academic is the lowest at $48,000.

I think $70,000 is a decent salary.


It is. However. After 9 months, the MEAN salary of all grads employed IN THE LEGAL PROFESSION is 68K. Eliminate 1/2 of the grads.

The average grad carries 100k in debt so knock off 10k in payments a year from those that remain. Average salary is now 58k.

NOW, recognize that salary distributions are bi-modal. Market at large firms is 160k. That means that the MAJORITY of the 50% of law school grads who manage to find a legal job in that time period make less than 58K their first year.

Accordingly, the random person going to law school enjoys a 25% > chance of earning above 58K a year. How do you like them apples?


I hope that this elementary statistics lesson has been helpful to you.

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dextermorgan
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Re: Being a Lawyer

Postby dextermorgan » Mon Feb 07, 2011 12:29 am

A lot of people who go into law school don't really want to be lawyers. We call these people idiots.

A lot of lawyers love their jobs. In fact they love their jobs so much they don't go on the internet to complain about how much they hate their job.

Protip: Most of the people who don't really want to become lawyers will exit the profession. Talk to lawyers who have been around a while, they all love it.

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Veyron
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Re: Being a Lawyer

Postby Veyron » Mon Feb 07, 2011 12:31 am

dextermorgan wrote:A lot of people who go into law school don't really want to be lawyers. We call these people idiots.

A lot of lawyers love their jobs. In fact they love their jobs so much they don't go on the internet to complain about how much they hate their job.

Protip: Most of the people who don't really want to become lawyers will exit the profession. Talk to lawyers who have been around a while, they all love it.


Meh, a lot of people complain about what they love. Ever talk to a married man?

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helloperson
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Re: Being a Lawyer

Postby helloperson » Mon Feb 07, 2011 12:46 am

sparty99 wrote:I never commented on the specific salaries of law graduates. However, research by the government shows it is lucrative. Or at least decent.

After 9 months, all graduates earn $68,000 on average. Private practice is $108,000. Academic is the lowest at $48,000.

I think $70,000 is a decent salary.


I am not competing for that salary. My undergraduate degree can get me that salary without three years and $200k debt. I'm competing for the big, $160k salary. That said, money is not the reason I am going into law. I am going into law because I am a fiercely competitive person, and I need a career that gives me a competitive outlet.

I want to be a lawyer, and I want to be the best.

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dextermorgan
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Re: Being a Lawyer

Postby dextermorgan » Mon Feb 07, 2011 12:48 am

Veyron wrote:
dextermorgan wrote:A lot of people who go into law school don't really want to be lawyers. We call these people idiots.

A lot of lawyers love their jobs. In fact they love their jobs so much they don't go on the internet to complain about how much they hate their job.

Protip: Most of the people who don't really want to become lawyers will exit the profession. Talk to lawyers who have been around a while, they all love it.


Meh, a lot of people complain about what they love. Ever talk to a married man?

LSAT review: assumes, without providing justification, that married men love their wives.

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DamnLSAT
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Re: Being a Lawyer

Postby DamnLSAT » Mon Feb 07, 2011 1:23 am

dextermorgan wrote:
Veyron wrote:
dextermorgan wrote:A lot of people who go into law school don't really want to be lawyers. We call these people idiots.

A lot of lawyers love their jobs. In fact they love their jobs so much they don't go on the internet to complain about how much they hate their job.

Protip: Most of the people who don't really want to become lawyers will exit the profession. Talk to lawyers who have been around a while, they all love it.


Meh, a lot of people complain about what they love. Ever talk to a married man?

LSAT review: assumes, without providing justification, that married men love their wives.


+1. Really like this.

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Veyron
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Re: Being a Lawyer

Postby Veyron » Mon Feb 07, 2011 1:28 am

dextermorgan wrote:
Veyron wrote:
dextermorgan wrote:A lot of people who go into law school don't really want to be lawyers. We call these people idiots.

A lot of lawyers love their jobs. In fact they love their jobs so much they don't go on the internet to complain about how much they hate their job.

Protip: Most of the people who don't really want to become lawyers will exit the profession. Talk to lawyers who have been around a while, they all love it.


Meh, a lot of people complain about what they love. Ever talk to a married man?

LSAT review: assumes, without providing justification, that married men love their wives.


Exam review, professors will expect you to make the assumption 9 times out of 10.

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sanjola
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Re: Being a Lawyer

Postby sanjola » Mon Feb 07, 2011 1:44 am

ShakeDemHatersOff wrote:people are just stupid and complain alot

they also are deluded into thinking that they are owed something

if you realize that you are owed nothing in this world and that nothing comes easy....then you won't be one of these whiners

deathviaboredom
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Re: Being a Lawyer

Postby deathviaboredom » Mon Feb 07, 2011 1:56 am

helloperson wrote:
sparty99 wrote:I never commented on the specific salaries of law graduates. However, research by the government shows it is lucrative. Or at least decent.

After 9 months, all graduates earn $68,000 on average. Private practice is $108,000. Academic is the lowest at $48,000.

I think $70,000 is a decent salary.


I am not competing for that salary. My undergraduate degree can get me that salary without three years and $200k debt. I'm competing for the big, $160k salary. That said, money is not the reason I am going into law. I am going into law because I am a fiercely competitive person, and I need a career that gives me a competitive outlet.

I want to be a lawyer, and I want to be the best.


What law school are you going to? I don't want to go there. You're an asshole.

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Veyron
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Re: Being a Lawyer

Postby Veyron » Mon Feb 07, 2011 1:58 am

deathviaboredom wrote:
helloperson wrote:
sparty99 wrote:I never commented on the specific salaries of law graduates. However, research by the government shows it is lucrative. Or at least decent.

After 9 months, all graduates earn $68,000 on average. Private practice is $108,000. Academic is the lowest at $48,000.

I think $70,000 is a decent salary.


I am not competing for that salary. My undergraduate degree can get me that salary without three years and $200k debt. I'm competing for the big, $160k salary. That said, money is not the reason I am going into law. I am going into law because I am a fiercely competitive person, and I need a career that gives me a competitive outlet.

I want to be a lawyer, and I want to be the best.


What law school are you going to? I don't want to go there. You're an asshole.


Whats wrong with:

I want to be the best lawyer I can possibly be and

I want to compete for the best positions available and be well compensated for my work?

Now granted, this poster should under NO circumstances to transactional work, but still.

If the poster had crappy stats I'd probably laugh at him, but he has the numbers to get into a lower T-14 and a BSEE, so I imagine that biglaw is at least in play.

Ignatius Reilly
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Re: Being a Lawyer

Postby Ignatius Reilly » Mon Feb 07, 2011 2:05 am

deathviaboredom wrote:
helloperson wrote:
sparty99 wrote:I never commented on the specific salaries of law graduates. However, research by the government shows it is lucrative. Or at least decent.

After 9 months, all graduates earn $68,000 on average. Private practice is $108,000. Academic is the lowest at $48,000.

I think $70,000 is a decent salary.


I am not competing for that salary. My undergraduate degree can get me that salary without three years and $200k debt. I'm competing for the big, $160k salary. That said, money is not the reason I am going into law. I am going into law because I am a fiercely competitive person, and I need a career that gives me a competitive outlet.

I want to be a lawyer, and I want to be the best.


What law school are you going to? I don't want to go there. You're an asshole.


+1

I'm guessing assholes dont make partner

sparty99
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Re: Being a Lawyer

Postby sparty99 » Mon Feb 07, 2011 2:28 am

Can someone comment on the legal clinics? They sound very interesting and I think they will be good experience when it comes to getting internships/full-time work. I also, long-term, want to start my own private practice and I think some of the clinics will be very helpful in that regard (tax clinics, negotiation).

Does the work in the clinics embody work that I would do as an attorney? Or is it just "brochure fluff."

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Veyron
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Re: Being a Lawyer

Postby Veyron » Mon Feb 07, 2011 2:30 am

sparty99 wrote:Can someone comment on the legal clinics? They sound very interesting and I think they will be good experience when it comes to getting internships/full-time work. I also, long-term, want to start my own private practice and I think some of the clinics will be very helpful in that regard (tax clinics, negotiation).

Does the work in the clinics embody work that I would do as an attorney? Or is it just "brochure fluff."


The clinics perfectly embody the work that you would do as a PI attorney.

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helloperson
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Re: Being a Lawyer

Postby helloperson » Mon Feb 07, 2011 3:02 pm

Ignatius Reilly wrote:
deathviaboredom wrote:
helloperson wrote:
sparty99 wrote:I never commented on the specific salaries of law graduates. However, research by the government shows it is lucrative. Or at least decent.

After 9 months, all graduates earn $68,000 on average. Private practice is $108,000. Academic is the lowest at $48,000.

I think $70,000 is a decent salary.


I am not competing for that salary. My undergraduate degree can get me that salary without three years and $200k debt. I'm competing for the big, $160k salary. That said, money is not the reason I am going into law. I am going into law because I am a fiercely competitive person, and I need a career that gives me a competitive outlet.

I want to be a lawyer, and I want to be the best.


What law school are you going to? I don't want to go there. You're an asshole.


+1

I'm guessing assholes dont make partner


What's with the dickishness? I want to be the best at my job, or, at the very least, ardently strive to be the best. No need for being an asshole, guy.

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reasonable_man
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Re: Being a Lawyer

Postby reasonable_man » Mon Feb 07, 2011 3:15 pm

I love being a lawyer. I worked in the field for almost 2 years before graduating college and then 3 years while in school, so i actually knew something about it before I started practicing. Most people hate it because they go into it expecting things that are just never going to happen and they have an unrealistic expectation of starting and mid-career salary levels.

Ignatius Reilly
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Re: Being a Lawyer

Postby Ignatius Reilly » Mon Feb 07, 2011 3:28 pm

helloperson wrote:
Ignatius Reilly wrote:
deathviaboredom wrote:What law school are you going to? I don't want to go there. You're an asshole.


+1

I'm guessing assholes dont make partner


What's with the dickishness? I want to be the best at my job, or, at the very least, ardently strive to be the best. No need for being an asshole, guy.


because you are one of those ass clowns that gets an inflated sense of self worth from high grades, and makes learning miserable.....at least tht is what i got from the post

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VictrixRapax
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Re: Being a Lawyer

Postby VictrixRapax » Mon Feb 07, 2011 5:35 pm

ShakeDemHatersOff wrote:people are just stupid and complain alot

they also are deluded into thinking that they are owed something

if you realize that you are owed nothing in this world and that nothing comes easy....then you won't be one of these whiners


Exactly. Winners win. Losers whine about lack of jobs, making partner, salaries, etc.

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helloperson
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Re: Being a Lawyer

Postby helloperson » Mon Feb 07, 2011 6:06 pm

Ignatius Reilly wrote:
helloperson wrote:
Ignatius Reilly wrote:
deathviaboredom wrote:What law school are you going to? I don't want to go there. You're an asshole.


+1

I'm guessing assholes dont make partner


What's with the dickishness? I want to be the best at my job, or, at the very least, ardently strive to be the best. No need for being an asshole, guy.


because you are one of those ass clowns that gets an inflated sense of self worth from high grades, and makes learning miserable.....at least tht is what i got from the post


Well, I'm not. If there's one thing I've learned from my undergrad experience, it's that GPA is only a loose reflection of how much someone learned. The class that actually taught me that lesson was Physics II. I thought, "oh, well, college is just about learning, so if I just learn all the material it won't really matter if I don't purchase the online homework courseware for $100, since the homework is just a means to that end!" Got an A on every single test and a 96 on the final, and I got a C in the course. Was my knowledge of that subject better than 95% of the other people in that class? Absolutely, but it really doesn't matter at all.

I love learning and I'm not the asshat who thinks grades are the end all be all of life.

Anyway, I'm sorry I gave you the wrong impression. Yeah, I'll be on a curve with everyone else in the class, but only an insecure fuckwad would try to make other people feel miserable for something as insignificant as grades. Grades are only useful for getting a job right after law school, just like the LSAT is only useful for getting into law school (and apparently MENSA if you were so inclined). Anyone who puts more stock into it than that is a pompous frog.




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