University of Virginia School of Law 2011

(housing, friendships, future exams, all things 2011)
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MissVirginia
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Re: University of Virginia School of Law 2011

Postby MissVirginia » Tue Jun 17, 2008 10:28 am

greygoose wrote:
CaptainDirtyBird wrote:Hey did anyone else get a PM from vamel threatening to out them like this is the mercer thread or am I the only one?
wow, if this is true, this person is intense. sexist jokes and written threats are all forms of harassment. you would think someone who argued so fervently against these pictures would understand this.
"intense"- maybe. But "threat"? "harassment"? I don't think sharing the real name of someone on an internet message board where there is no presumption of anonymity can reasonably be construed as harassment. Nor do I think vamel saying s/he would do so is even a "threat"- what would be the perceived injury? I also think it's in poor taste to suggest s/he was "delusional" for sharing that s/he was offended by the remarks. vamel is clearly taking the "jokes" of earlier pages a lot more seriously than you all are, but if you are comfortable with what you've posted and stand behind it- who cares if someone announces your real name? If that makes you uncomfortable, I think it suggests you should've been a little more prudent and discerning in what you decided to post in the first place.

Personally, if vamel is real, I have a lot of empathy. I have often been in settings where an arguably racist/sexist/whatever remark was made (often in jest and without malice), and I was too punk too speak up even though it made me exceedingly uncomfortable. I didn't want to isolate myself even further by interjecting to say that something was inappropriate or offensive, so I said nothing. I always feel horrible afterwards. True, we have to pick our battles, but every silence lulls our companions into a false sense of security that their remarks are ok. So when those awkward moments arise and I don't have the courage to pipe up, I'm often appreciative of a vamel-like person who chimes in just to say "hey, not cool guys".

Don't be confused by the lack of objection to the questionable comments/pictures; I am certain other long-time lurkers and even regular posters were displeased, but just scrolled on by before vamel spoke up. I just wouldn't want you to think that because no one else who frequently participates in the thread objected, that no one else was offended. A few of the most regular contributors who were conspicuously silent on this issue were folks who were very bothered but didn't want to make themselves an outcast by piping up. Law school is just high school all over again.

Nipplehead may have the best take: if your idea of a rockin' good time is incomplete without a good dose of well-meaning misogyny, then perhaps vamel is not who you want to party with. But in terms of our future classmates and colleagues, I welcome those who are bold enough to speak up when they perceive a wrong, especially those times when I wind up being the one looking awkwardly away in silence and wishing it'd could've been me who spoke up. And even when I'm not at all offended (like now)- it's good to be reminded to be sensitive to the perceptions of others. We can thank vamel for his/her input without chastising him/her for not sharing your sense of humor or appreciation of good-natured, but occasionally risque, ribbing. Right?

That said, I don't think the remarks or pictures were that big of a deal. I also think that since Courtenay says she reads these boards regularly, that alone would be enough for me to refrain from memorializing in a venue as public and permanent as the internet a statement I wouldn't want to be held accountable for later. There's no un-ringing a bell. Of vamel vs. the defender of the water cooler picture: who would feel more awkward if asked about their contribution to the thread over lunch with Courtenay? If neither, then it's all good.

If you wouldn't be embarrassed for the admissions office to see that, then you shouldn't waste a precious moment worrying about vamel "outing" you. We're all (mostly) grown folks here. If you think vamel should "get a life" or "lighten up", then the least you can do is be man/woman enough not to call foul when s/he says s/he's going to hold you accountable by attaching the author's name to the remarks you're so fervently explaining/ dismissing/ defending. Posting those photos (or laughing, or playing along with the banter...) doesn't make you a sexist- but it should make you prepared to anticipate that some of your classmates may object. That's fair, right?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Now back to Hemingway- about whom I am blissfully ignorant. So... hypothetically... *cough*... embarrassingly... if I'd never read a single word of Hemingway and I'd like to do so in the summer before law school, where should I start?

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J-Rod
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Re: University of Virginia School of Law 2011

Postby J-Rod » Tue Jun 17, 2008 11:15 am

MissVirginia wrote:If you wouldn't be embarrassed for the admissions office to see that, then you shouldn't waste a precious moment worrying about vamel "outing" you. We're all (mostly) grown folks here. If you think vamel should "get a life" or "lighten up", then the least you can do is be man/woman enough not to call foul when s/he says s/he's going to hold you accountable by attaching the author's name to the remarks you're so fervently explaining/ dismissing/ defending. Posting those photos (or laughing, or playing along with the banter...) doesn't make you a sexist- but it should make you prepared to anticipate that some of your classmates may object. That's fair, right?


By all means I think it is fair. That is why I respectfully laid out my position on this issue in my responses.

Wow . . . this has all gotten very intense.

Do I think there is a need to report anyone. No. Am I going to apologize for the images I posted. No. I have already removed them. I stated my case in this thread, replied to Vamel's responses, and I thought this discussion would be over. I did not attack the personal character of Vamel, or that of anyone else who got involved in this discussion. Insinuations were made against my own character, but I have no problem defending myself. The people who know me can attest to my true character much more than one post I made on an internet forum. If someone is still offended, the issue should be resolved privately. These images were posted in mockery and jest, and are in no way indicative of anyone's true beliefs in this thread. They are in fact the exact opposite, hence their sarcastic intent.

I feel the the discussion of this topic in this thread itself should end here. Vamel, if you still have a problem with me personally, or would like to continue this conversation, please feel free to PM me.

greygoose
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Re: University of Virginia School of Law 2011

Postby greygoose » Tue Jun 17, 2008 11:31 am

SgtBilko wrote:F that. Willie got sabotaged, railroaded, and just done wrong.

I am a very unhappy Mets Fan. Check out Buster Olney's blog for more on what a piece of shit Omar Minaya and the Front office is....http://insider.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?entryID=3448037&name=olney_buster


i would have been more content on removing both minaya and randolph. however, the former will find his way out by the end of the season if the team doesn't perform better. randolph might be a dignified manager, but he just can't coach. the met's seemingly just give up in the later innings, from my recollection, i don't remember them rallying for a win after trailing past the 6-7th innings. it's the manager's responsibility to motivate the players. he might have been thrown under the bus, but it's no different for any other manager. i felt it was time to do this and we'll clean house again at the end of the season.

greygoose
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Re: University of Virginia School of Law 2011

Postby greygoose » Tue Jun 17, 2008 11:39 am

MissVirginia wrote:
greygoose wrote:
CaptainDirtyBird wrote:Hey did anyone else get a PM from vamel threatening to out them like this is the mercer thread or am I the only one?
wow, if this is true, this person is intense. sexist jokes and written threats are all forms of harassment. you would think someone who argued so fervently against these pictures would understand this.
"intense"- maybe. But "threat"? "harassment"? I don't think sharing the real name of someone on an internet message board where there is no presumption of anonymity can reasonably be construed as harassment. Nor do I think vamel saying s/he would do so is even a "threat"- what would be the perceived injury? I also think it's in poor taste to suggest s/he was "delusional" for sharing that s/he was offended by the remarks. vamel is clearly taking the "jokes" of earlier pages a lot more seriously than you all are, but if you are comfortable with what you've posted and stand behind it- who cares if someone announces your real name? If that makes you uncomfortable, I think it suggests you should've been a little more prudent and discerning in what you decided to post in the first place.

Personally, if vamel is real, I have a lot of empathy. I have often been in settings where an arguably racist/sexist/whatever remark was made (often in jest and without malice), and I was too punk too speak up even though it made me exceedingly uncomfortable. I didn't want to isolate myself even further by interjecting to say that something was inappropriate or offensive, so I said nothing. I always feel horrible afterwards. True, we have to pick our battles, but every silence lulls our companions into a false sense of security that their remarks are ok. So when those awkward moments arise and I don't have the courage to pipe up, I'm often appreciative of a vamel-like person who chimes in just to say "hey, not cool guys".

Don't be confused by the lack of objection to the questionable comments/pictures; I am certain other long-time lurkers and even regular posters were displeased, but just scrolled on by before vamel spoke up. I just wouldn't want you to think that because no one else who frequently participates in the thread objected, that no one else was offended. A few of the most regular contributors who were conspicuously silent on this issue were folks who were very bothered but didn't want to make themselves an outcast by piping up. Law school is just high school all over again.

Nipplehead may have the best take: if your idea of a rockin' good time is incomplete without a good dose of well-meaning misogyny, then perhaps vamel is not who you want to party with. But in terms of our future classmates and colleagues, I welcome those who are bold enough to speak up when they perceive a wrong, especially those times when I wind up being the one looking awkwardly away in silence and wishing it'd could've been me who spoke up. And even when I'm not at all offended (like now)- it's good to be reminded to be sensitive to the perceptions of others. We can thank vamel for his/her input without chastising him/her for not sharing your sense of humor or appreciation of good-natured, but occasionally risque, ribbing. Right?

That said, I don't think the remarks or pictures were that big of a deal. I also think that since Courtenay says she reads these boards regularly, that alone would be enough for me to refrain from memorializing in a venue as public and permanent as the internet a statement I wouldn't want to be held accountable for later. There's no un-ringing a bell. Of vamel vs. the defender of the water cooler picture: who would feel more awkward if asked about their contribution to the thread over lunch with Courtenay? If neither, then it's all good.

If you wouldn't be embarrassed for the admissions office to see that, then you shouldn't waste a precious moment worrying about vamel "outing" you. We're all (mostly) grown folks here. If you think vamel should "get a life" or "lighten up", then the least you can do is be man/woman enough not to call foul when s/he says s/he's going to hold you accountable by attaching the author's name to the remarks you're so fervently explaining/ dismissing/ defending. Posting those photos (or laughing, or playing along with the banter...) doesn't make you a sexist- but it should make you prepared to anticipate that some of your classmates may object. That's fair, right?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Now back to Hemingway- about whom I am blissfully ignorant. So... hypothetically... *cough*... embarrassingly... if I'd never read a single word of Hemingway and I'd like to do so in the summer before law school, where should I start?



i am glad you shared those sentiments. i agree on many, but not all points. i think this facet of the discussion is ready to die off.

as for hemingway, he's not for everyone. my favorite would be The Old Man and the Sea, the winner of the '53 Nobel Prize. His classics include:

The Sun Also Rises
A Farewell to Arms
For Whom the Bell Tolls

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MissVirginia
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Re: University of Virginia School of Law 2011

Postby MissVirginia » Tue Jun 17, 2008 12:26 pm

Thanks for the rec. Nobel Prize is as good a place to start as any. I had a BN gift certificate from forever ago that just got put to good use: used copy of The Old Man and the Sea for less than a dollar, and picked up Getting to Maybe while I was there. I love free shipping. Anyone else planning on giving Maybe a glance before August?

Speaking of prep this summer... anyone doing LawPreview / PLS study guide/ CLEO or anything? I'll be at CLEO AIE in Atlanta.

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aguyingeorgia
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Re: University of Virginia School of Law 2011

Postby aguyingeorgia » Tue Jun 17, 2008 12:30 pm

And, at long last, the guy that hasn't posted in this thread for awhile...

To my dearest Vamel:

I won't say your points are without merit. Such things could well come to bear in terms of becoming employed, staying employed, and in general maybe aren't the best posts to make.

All of that said, I feel fairly confident posting this response regarding your future classmates. They are fun people, and I highly doubt any of them were attempting to be sexist. Rather, I'd say that they enjoy laughing at random things, and like so many others on this board have developed a sense of kinship and comraderie with their fellow posters in this thread, and thus feel comfortable sharing outlandish and random thing to illicit a chuckle, with the understanding that a reasonable and prudent person reading this board wouldn't make vast assumptions about their character and beliefs based on a few links.

But then, I can't argue with your point. They aren't the smartest things to post, but having communicated with many in this thread via this message board, and several beyond, I can find no malice in their ways.

If you building mountains out of molehills for the sake of causing a ruckus, or to threaten people in a roundabout manner, then I suggest you take your mountains out of molehills building to Iowa and other places and build something to hold the raging river back.

If you are merely giving a caveat to your future classmates about being wary of what they post, then I have no problem with that. I would applaud your efforts, though encourage you that a private message seems to work better than a public chastisement with threats of flogging.

However, if you are making threats to out people, rest assured you can be outted as well, no matter how anonymous you may think you are being. For some reason, the scene in the movie where the townspeople are headed to Frankenstein's castle with torches is in my head.

All of that said, bear two things in mind.

1. Any thing you post can be traced back to you. Always be certain that you would be willing to have your name along side of your post, most especially when it comes from posting questionable content that may offend or cause questions about your own character.

2. Ducks are trying to take over the world. Be wary. What have you done today to stop this from happening? Think about it.

vamel
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Re: University of Virginia School of Law 2011

Postby vamel » Tue Jun 17, 2008 12:46 pm

Because I have been accused of threatening CaptainDirtyBird, I have posted the PM that I sent to the poster. It quotes a previous public comment that he made about me.

I would think so but look how long they were lurking...to lecture us. More likely she is going to be that one person next year who will make law review b/c the only people who won't offend her is her cats and her emasculated boyfriend.



1. Thanks for your vote for me for law review.
2. Especially when you attack someone, you need to check your subject-verb agreement. That's a hanging curveball.
3. The world isn't (name of school attended)- and the sooner you realize that, the easier life will be for you.


He had previously written that he went to a school that had almost no women. A quick search of facebook and a small amount of knowledge of the demographics of American colleges and universities led me to draw a conclusion. I did not threaten him - my intention was to tell him that the world outside of his male-dominated school can be very different. In fact, I don't see how my response could be seen as threatening. I am happy to post his reply to my message - provided I get his permission.
Last edited by vamel on Tue Jun 17, 2008 10:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Da Stain
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Re: University of Virginia School of Law 2011

Postby Da Stain » Tue Jun 17, 2008 12:56 pm

Uhm, ignore the bottom part:

--ImageRemoved--

vamel
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Re: University of Virginia School of Law 2011

Postby vamel » Tue Jun 17, 2008 1:02 pm

Agreed! I too want to return to Gossip Girls, GTA4 (has anyone discussed this yet?), and a return to the Woodlands vs. Ivy Gardens debate!

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Re: University of Virginia School of Law 2011

Postby CaptainDirtyBird » Tue Jun 17, 2008 1:03 pm

For the record, this is me being serious :| :lol: (okay not too serious):

I don't have a problem with anything I said being relayed to the administration...I said it and I stand by it. It doesn't nescessarily follow; however, that I would say those things in certain company. My pre-adolescent sister, my mother, and grandmother probably wouldn't appreciate the humor - so I wouldn't say these things in front of them because it would be hurtful and insensitive, not because I find the material objectionable and wouldn't want to get spanked. This thread has its own character, one marked by whimsey and a collegial amount of self-deprecation and deprecation of others. Vamel came into this like Donny into a conversation which he didn't understand, and started rebuking people. Had her tone not been so goddamn self superior (Wow...) - I wouldn't think her Waltering to be deserved.

Ironically, I got hosed out of two jobs right out of undergrad because during my time there I was a vocal opponent of honest to god sexism and racism on campus (a freak of six degrees of seperation which will be told one day to much laughter over some beers in October). So to have personally gotten hosed for saying things which pissed off influential alumni and contacts because it reflected poorley upon my school, and now to hear that I'm some sort of bigot (and have someone threaten to out me like a hall monitor) because I find the humor in a statement which derives its hilarity from two place: one, the person who agrees with the sentiment; two, the people who think that the author is serious...its all a little absurd.

Edit: Now read your other posts about how easy it is to pick us out of a facebook group and see how it plays "I know who you are."
Edit: If all you meant was that you think I have a skewed view, than we can agree to disagree.
Last edited by CaptainDirtyBird on Tue Jun 17, 2008 1:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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J-Rod
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Re: University of Virginia School of Law 2011

Postby J-Rod » Tue Jun 17, 2008 1:13 pm

vamel wrote:Agreed! I too want to return to Gossip Girls, GTA4 (has anyone discussed this yet?), and a return to the Woodlands vs. Ivy Gardens debate!



Gossip Girl sucks. GTA4 rules. And the Woodlands dominates all.

And seriously people, let this shit go or I'm gonna lock the thread

CaptainDirtyBird
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Re: University of Virginia School of Law 2011

Postby CaptainDirtyBird » Tue Jun 17, 2008 1:16 pm

J-Rod wrote:
vamel wrote:Agreed! I too want to return to Gossip Girls, GTA4 (has anyone discussed this yet?), and a return to the Woodlands vs. Ivy Gardens debate!



Gossip Girl sucks. GTA4 rules. And the Woodlands dominates all.

And seriously people, let this shit go or I'm gonna lock the thread


Agreed. I'll play nice and as a token of reconcilliation: I'll watch whatever gossip girl is if vamel agress to watch entourage.

satchelGD
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Re: University of Virginia School of Law 2011

Postby satchelGD » Tue Jun 17, 2008 1:29 pm

alright everyone, you can come out again, it's safe.

greygoose
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Re: University of Virginia School of Law 2011

Postby greygoose » Tue Jun 17, 2008 1:33 pm

here's your lock J-Rod:

Image

i hope you are all deeply offended, because this was my intent.

i was hoping for fist cuffs over this past argument...now back to lame tv-shows. *yawn :P

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J-Rod
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Re: University of Virginia School of Law 2011

Postby J-Rod » Tue Jun 17, 2008 1:51 pm

does anyone else feel like giving up golf now that we know a healthy golf world can't beat a crippled Tiger?

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aguyingeorgia
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Re: University of Virginia School of Law 2011

Postby aguyingeorgia » Tue Jun 17, 2008 2:03 pm

I feel like a warm cup of cocoa, cuddled up with a good book, as I watch the snow gently fall outside.


:?: Ducks run the golf world.

CaptainDirtyBird
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Re: University of Virginia School of Law 2011

Postby CaptainDirtyBird » Tue Jun 17, 2008 2:06 pm

Nope. Thats what dominence is about. Jordan wins NBA finals games with the flu. Alexsandr Karelin (perhaps the most dominant Olympian ever) won a Gold medal with broken ribs. John Elway scrambled for a Super Bowl win with the ACLs fo a 90 year old man. Big Brown won the Triple Stakes with a broken hoof...oh shit, I forgot. 50 bucks down the damn drain.

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aguyingeorgia
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Re: University of Virginia School of Law 2011

Postby aguyingeorgia » Tue Jun 17, 2008 2:18 pm

So who is having a cook-out the first two weeks of August for me to crash?

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MissVirginia
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Re: University of Virginia School of Law 2011

Postby MissVirginia » Tue Jun 17, 2008 2:24 pm

aguyingeorgia wrote:So who is having a cook-out the first two weeks of August for me to crash?
I am so confused (that's nothing new)- but are you coming to Virginia instead of NYU or you just planning on chilling in Charlottesville later this summer?

greygoose wrote:i hope you are all deeply offended, because this was my intent. i was hoping for fist cuffs over this past argument...now back to lame tv-shows. *yawn*
"fist cuffs"?! :D

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J-Rod
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Re: University of Virginia School of Law 2011

Postby J-Rod » Tue Jun 17, 2008 3:00 pm

aguyingeorgia wrote:So who is having a cook-out the first two weeks of August for me to crash?



You'll be crashing at the most badass UVA townhouse ever! Woodlands baby! You, me, nip, bun, goose, and others will party, hunt ducks, etc.!

greygoose
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Re: University of Virginia School of Law 2011

Postby greygoose » Tue Jun 17, 2008 3:02 pm

MissVirginia wrote:
aguyingeorgia wrote:So who is having a cook-out the first two weeks of August for me to crash?
I am so confused (that's nothing new)- but are you coming to Virginia instead of NYU or you just planning on chilling in Charlottesville later this summer?

greygoose wrote:i hope you are all deeply offended, because this was my intent. i was hoping for fist cuffs over this past argument...now back to lame tv-shows. *yawn*
"fist cuffs"?! :D


hahah, yea i grew up in an affluent suburb...i have no street creds...


GO CELTICS!

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nipplehead
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Re: University of Virginia School of Law 2011

Postby nipplehead » Tue Jun 17, 2008 3:04 pm

CaptainDirtyBird wrote:Nope. Thats what dominence is about. Jordan wins NBA finals games with the flu. Alexsandr Karelin (perhaps the most dominant Olympian ever) won a Gold medal with broken ribs. John Elway scrambled for a Super Bowl win with the ACLs fo a 90 year old man. Big Brown won the Triple Stakes with a broken hoof...oh shit, I forgot. 50 bucks down the damn drain.


is Karelin the dude who lost to Gardner? USA! USA!

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gladiator
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Re: University of Virginia School of Law 2011

Postby gladiator » Tue Jun 17, 2008 3:14 pm

greygoose wrote:
MissVirginia wrote:
aguyingeorgia wrote:So who is having a cook-out the first two weeks of August for me to crash?
I am so confused (that's nothing new)- but are you coming to Virginia instead of NYU or you just planning on chilling in Charlottesville later this summer?

greygoose wrote:i hope you are all deeply offended, because this was my intent. i was hoping for fist cuffs over this past argument...now back to lame tv-shows. *yawn*
"fist cuffs"?! :D


hahah, yea i grew up in an affluent suburb...i have no street creds...


GO CELTICS!


Let's call it upper middle class not affluent.

shadowfish
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Re: University of Virginia School of Law 2011

Postby shadowfish » Tue Jun 17, 2008 3:17 pm

greygoose wrote:
MissVirginia wrote:Now back to Hemingway- about whom I am blissfully ignorant. So... hypothetically... *cough*... embarrassingly... if I'd never read a single word of Hemingway and I'd like to do so in the summer before law school, where should I start?



i am glad you shared those sentiments. i agree on many, but not all points. i think this facet of the discussion is ready to die off.

as for hemingway, he's not for everyone. my favorite would be The Old Man and the Sea, the winner of the '53 Nobel Prize. His classics include:

The Sun Also Rises
A Farewell to Arms
For Whom the Bell Tolls

I think "blissful" is the most important word in MissVirginia's original post.
If you do have to read Hemingway, do NOT read The Sun Also Rises. That book is what gave me such an abysmally low opinion of him. That and Across the River and Into the Trees (which, fortunately, I remember very little of).
If you're okay with hearing about the boring exploits of a self-pitying man (besides going to the bar, he doesn't do much), his infatuation with an insipid woman, and his other pathetic woes, by all means, read The Sun Also Rises.
I'll admit - the part when he went fishing and went to Pamphlona (sp?) were okay. But all of everything before that was horrible and deserved no less than death.
Yes, I am bitter that this is considered fine literature when more well-deserving books from the same era are probably being ignored. I wouldn't know, though, because nobody reprints anything that's not considered a classic! >:S

Thanks for the recs, OldBlue! I've read most of those, but I'll check out A Hero of Our Time and Barbarians at the Gate.
I'll also second the rec for A Civil Action. That was some incredible non-fiction.

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MissVirginia
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Re: University of Virginia School of Law 2011

Postby MissVirginia » Tue Jun 17, 2008 3:21 pm

greygoose wrote:
MissVirginia wrote:
greygoose wrote:i hope you are all deeply offended, because this was my intent. i was hoping for fist cuffs over this past argument...now back to lame tv-shows. *yawn*
"fist cuffs"?! :D
hahah, yea i grew up in an affluent suburb...i have no street creds...

GO CELTICS!
Ha, I'm not questioning your street cred- just your spelling. :wink:

And go Celtics indeed. I made a pretty dumb bet this morning that I instantly regretted- the problem is that it was with a 10 year old so there are "NO TAKE BACKS" according to him. I bet him $20 that the Celtics finish it off tonight... so if they lose I owe him $20, but if they win... the only place the kid could get $20 to pay up is from me. Hopefully Boston does a better job of finishing things up than I do at making wagers.




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