EFC: Non trads get screwed!

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LSATfromNC
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Re: EFC: Non trads get screwed!

Postby LSATfromNC » Wed Feb 11, 2009 11:36 am

Made 60k last year and my EFC is only 3500??????

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gpb19
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Re: EFC: Non trads get screwed!

Postby gpb19 » Wed Feb 11, 2009 11:53 am

LSATfromNC wrote:Made 60k last year and my EFC is only 3500??????


Did you itemize deductions? I wonder if that makes a huge difference. Hubby and I weren't able to file a 1040 EZ or A because he has some per diem itemizations we can use since he's a truck driver. But yeah, if you made 60k by yourself, it's completely f'ed up that your EFC is 3500 while mine is 20k.

I think when they ask if either you or your spouse is a dislocated worker, it's just so they can chuckle at your expense, not so they can make any adjustments to your file :?

Oh well. I'll just have a chat with the financial aid people at whatever school I go to and I'm sure it will all work out. I'm not stressed about it, just annoyed.

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angiej
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Re: EFC: Non trads get screwed!

Postby angiej » Wed Feb 11, 2009 11:57 am

I think when they ask if either you or your spouse is a dislocated worker, it's just so they can chuckle at your expense, not so they can make any adjustments to your file :?


I know someone who is a dislocated worker and is getting money to go to school because of it . . . so it might actually mean you are getting less if they assume the government has already given you $?

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gpb19
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Re: EFC: Non trads get screwed!

Postby gpb19 » Wed Feb 11, 2009 12:04 pm

angiej wrote:
I think when they ask if either you or your spouse is a dislocated worker, it's just so they can chuckle at your expense, not so they can make any adjustments to your file :?


I know someone who is a dislocated worker and is getting money to go to school because of it . . . so it might actually mean you are getting less if they assume the government has already given you $?


Hm. If I understand you correctly, that seems really odd. But, it's likely a moot point anyway, as he is planning this week to accept a job driving over the road. The local companies that are hiring are the ones that pay nothing, unfortunately. OTR is more money, but he'll never be home.

Once LS starts it's not like I'd be spending a lot of time with him anyway, right? :(

(Sorry for the thread hijack with my little pity party, please continue with your regularly scheduled EFC rants!)

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angiej
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Re: EFC: Non trads get screwed!

Postby angiej » Wed Feb 11, 2009 12:17 pm

gpb19 wrote:
angiej wrote:
I think when they ask if either you or your spouse is a dislocated worker, it's just so they can chuckle at your expense, not so they can make any adjustments to your file :?


I know someone who is a dislocated worker and is getting money to go to school because of it . . . so it might actually mean you are getting less if they assume the government has already given you $?


Hm. If I understand you correctly, that seems really odd. But, it's likely a moot point anyway, as he is planning this week to accept a job driving over the road. The local companies that are hiring are the ones that pay nothing, unfortunately. OTR is more money, but he'll never be home.

Once LS starts it's not like I'd be spending a lot of time with him anyway, right? :(

(Sorry for the thread hijack with my little pity party, please continue with your regularly scheduled EFC rants!)


It doesn't make sense to me either but he can't seem to qualify for many other grants (Pell, etc.) b/c the government is already paying for $6,000 for his schooling for the disclocated workers program.

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gpb19
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Re: EFC: Non trads get screwed!

Postby gpb19 » Wed Feb 11, 2009 12:42 pm

angiej wrote:It doesn't make sense to me either but he can't seem to qualify for many other grants (Pell, etc.) b/c the government is already paying for $6,000 for his schooling for the disclocated workers program.


Ok, that does make sense for him. But if that's what they are doing, it's even more f'ed up. The form doesn't ask if it's me or my husband who is dislocated, it just wants to know if one of us is. And it's not like I'm going to get federal money to go to LS b/c my huband's trucking job that was tied into the real estate market fell through. :lol:

bigben
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Re: EFC: Non trads get screwed!

Postby bigben » Wed Feb 11, 2009 2:01 pm

CWF V wrote:
bigben wrote:Law school basically does not have financial aid, so everyone just calm down. It's either merit aid or you will be taking out LOANS.


I'm really not trying to be pugnacious, but...

Need-based aid is given to students with low ECs. This money is in the form of a grant; you never need to pay back a grant. Loans = need to pay back; grants = do not need to pay back.

Unlike merit-based aid, need based aid usually cannot be negotiated. The only exception is when you are experiencing an unforeseen hardship: an expensive childbirth, an accident, etc... In those cases, it is possible to have the school's financial aid office re-review your aid package (note: this may only be true for public universities as I have only had this experience with those types of institutions).



Do you personally know of anybody who got financial aid in grants from a law school? I just don't think it happens. I explain why I have this impression here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=58049&p=1241963

LSATfromNC
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Re: EFC: Non trads get screwed!

Postby LSATfromNC » Wed Feb 11, 2009 2:23 pm

bigben wrote:
CWF V wrote:
bigben wrote:Law school basically does not have financial aid, so everyone just calm down. It's either merit aid or you will be taking out LOANS.


I'm really not trying to be pugnacious, but...

Need-based aid is given to students with low ECs. This money is in the form of a grant; you never need to pay back a grant. Loans = need to pay back; grants = do not need to pay back.

Unlike merit-based aid, need based aid usually cannot be negotiated. The only exception is when you are experiencing an unforeseen hardship: an expensive childbirth, an accident, etc... In those cases, it is possible to have the school's financial aid office re-review your aid package (note: this may only be true for public universities as I have only had this experience with those types of institutions).



Do you personally know of anybody who got financial aid in grants from a law school? I just don't think it happens. I explain why I have this impression here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=58049&p=1241963



At a recent admitted students chat it was put out they do give out need based grants, but not very many she said. She stated its for the poorest of the poor, mainly because most students are poor.

bigben
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Re: EFC: Non trads get screwed!

Postby bigben » Wed Feb 11, 2009 2:34 pm

LSATfromNC wrote:
bigben wrote:
CWF V wrote:
bigben wrote:Law school basically does not have financial aid, so everyone just calm down. It's either merit aid or you will be taking out LOANS.


I'm really not trying to be pugnacious, but...

Need-based aid is given to students with low ECs. This money is in the form of a grant; you never need to pay back a grant. Loans = need to pay back; grants = do not need to pay back.

Unlike merit-based aid, need based aid usually cannot be negotiated. The only exception is when you are experiencing an unforeseen hardship: an expensive childbirth, an accident, etc... In those cases, it is possible to have the school's financial aid office re-review your aid package (note: this may only be true for public universities as I have only had this experience with those types of institutions).



Do you personally know of anybody who got financial aid in grants from a law school? I just don't think it happens. I explain why I have this impression here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=58049&p=1241963



At a recent admitted students chat it was put out they do give out need based grants, but not very many she said. She stated its for the poorest of the poor, mainly because most students are poor.


Yeah, it's very rare. I think people got aid in undergrad and assume they will in law school, but it's not even remotely close to being like undergrad.

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angiej
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Re: EFC: Non trads get screwed!

Postby angiej » Wed Feb 11, 2009 2:54 pm

I am deffinetly not expecting to get any need-based aid since I love my full-time job and will continue to work here until the day I need to leave for school (I'm a non-trad undergrad now). But I do hope that I can get some merit based aid, even if it means setting my sights slightly lower.

rainmaker614
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Re: EFC: Non trads get screwed!

Postby rainmaker614 » Wed Feb 11, 2009 3:04 pm

Many people here are very misinformed on the financial aid issue. I'll do my best to resolve some of the issues here...

gpb19: If your husband is a dislocated worker, your EFC is supposed to be 0. This is a given and you shouldn't have any worries. My job works on annual contract and because I'm going to law school, I had to stop working in January. I thought this was really going to screw me because all of my income last year would show, but my FAFSA wouldn't take into account that I would make nothing this year. I was wrong, as all dislocated workers get a 0 EFC regardless of income.

Addressing need based aid- you will only qualify for need based aid if you are significantly disadvantaged or come from a disadvantaged background, not just needy for the year. Almost everyone would qualify for need based aid if they only took into account your immediate income or last years taxes. Most schools will require your parents info to varying degrees (harvard=as long as they're alive, other schools will count them if you are under 25) via needs access or school specific forms. Many schools will take into account your economic background as conveyed in your personal statement too. Contrary to what some people here think, there is a significant amount of need based aid available to people that really deserve it (come from a disadvantaged financial background). Otherwise, you're pretty much just as needy as everyone else and need to take loans.

So if you don't come from a significantly disadvantaged economic background (which is why many schools ask for your parents info even if they have nothing to do with you and haven't given you a dime since middle school) your EFC is essentially meaningless. Stop stressing. Almost everyone will qualify for the full amount of the 8500 for subsidized loans (unless your EFC is over 20k maybe?) and beyond that it won't have an effect on you. The need based aid available isn't for most students, even if they are needy for that school year. Without an EFC of 0 I have trouble understanding how anyone could remotely think they would get need based grants anyways? If you have to worry about your parents being counted for aid or worry about your EFC, you're probably no more needy than 99% of the other people applying to law school (even without an income that year or if you're behind on your bills).

Ultimately, relax your EFC won't hurt you no matter what. Even if you didn't qualify for the 8500 of subsidized (maybe someone with a 30k EFC), I bet you would still qualify for some of that and even the full amount is nothing that will save you a significant amount of money, especially if you plan on taking more than 40k in loans. As for need based aid, just get it out of your head unless you come from a disadvantaged financial background and REALLY are needy.

Hope this helps...

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gpb19
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Re: EFC: Non trads get screwed!

Postby gpb19 » Wed Feb 11, 2009 3:15 pm

Thanks rainmaker. :) I'm really not stressed about the EFC thing at all, because I know it won't matter. I'm just annoyed at the way it's calculated, because it's illogical to me.

But, to clarify - my completed FAFSA definitely says "Yes" about whether hubby or me is a dislocated worker, and it also definitely says my EFC is $20043. We don't own any property other than our home, and we don't have anything additional in assets besides what little is left in our savings account right now.

So again, I realize it means nothing and that I'll be just fine when it comes to getting loans, but it's annoying to see $20043 as my EFC under the circumstances.

rainmaker614
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Re: EFC: Non trads get screwed!

Postby rainmaker614 » Wed Feb 11, 2009 3:27 pm

gpb19 wrote:Thanks rainmaker. :) I'm really not stressed about the EFC thing at all, because I know it won't matter. I'm just annoyed at the way it's calculated, because it's illogical to me.

But, to clarify - my completed FAFSA definitely says "Yes" about whether hubby or me is a dislocated worker, and it also definitely says my EFC is $20043. We don't own any property other than our home, and we don't have anything additional in assets besides what little is left in our savings account right now.

So again, I realize it means nothing and that I'll be just fine when it comes to getting loans, but it's annoying to see $20043 as my EFC under the circumstances.


Something must be up. I had a decent income last year and was expecting maybe a 15k EFC but the dislocated worker factor brought it right to 0. Was your income a significant amount of your household income? Maybe more than your husbands? That's the only thing that would account for you having such a high EFC still.

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gpb19
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Re: EFC: Non trads get screwed!

Postby gpb19 » Wed Feb 11, 2009 3:34 pm

rainmaker614 wrote:
gpb19 wrote:Thanks rainmaker. :) I'm really not stressed about the EFC thing at all, because I know it won't matter. I'm just annoyed at the way it's calculated, because it's illogical to me.

But, to clarify - my completed FAFSA definitely says "Yes" about whether hubby or me is a dislocated worker, and it also definitely says my EFC is $20043. We don't own any property other than our home, and we don't have anything additional in assets besides what little is left in our savings account right now.

So again, I realize it means nothing and that I'll be just fine when it comes to getting loans, but it's annoying to see $20043 as my EFC under the circumstances.


Something must be up. I had a decent income last year and was expecting maybe a 15k EFC but the dislocated worker factor brought it right to 0. Was your income a significant amount of your household income? Maybe more than your husbands? That's the only thing that would account for you having such a high EFC still.


Nope, I took this crappy-paying job in May to get some legal experience, so he made a bit more than me last year, but not by much.

I've quadruple-checked everything, because it makes no sense. My pet theory is that it's because we didn't qualify for 1040EZ or A since we itemized his per diem. Meh. At least it won't hurt me in the long run. Just evidence that the way they calculate EFC is really messed up!

kiwislug
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Re: EFC: Non trads get screwed!

Postby kiwislug » Wed Feb 11, 2009 3:47 pm

ShiftyPig wrote:
kiwislug wrote:At least you have a salary. I made about $6,000 last year but I won't get any aid because my parents make too much money.


If you are pursuing a graduate degree, you do not report your parents' income.


you do for needaccess, and all fafsa gives you are LOANS. There will be no need based scholarship money for me because of my parents.

rainmaker614
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Re: EFC: Non trads get screwed!

Postby rainmaker614 » Wed Feb 11, 2009 3:52 pm

gpb19 wrote:
rainmaker614 wrote:
gpb19 wrote:Thanks rainmaker. :) I'm really not stressed about the EFC thing at all, because I know it won't matter. I'm just annoyed at the way it's calculated, because it's illogical to me.

But, to clarify - my completed FAFSA definitely says "Yes" about whether hubby or me is a dislocated worker, and it also definitely says my EFC is $20043. We don't own any property other than our home, and we don't have anything additional in assets besides what little is left in our savings account right now.

So again, I realize it means nothing and that I'll be just fine when it comes to getting loans, but it's annoying to see $20043 as my EFC under the circumstances.


Something must be up. I had a decent income last year and was expecting maybe a 15k EFC but the dislocated worker factor brought it right to 0. Was your income a significant amount of your household income? Maybe more than your husbands? That's the only thing that would account for you having such a high EFC still.


Nope, I took this crappy-paying job in May to get some legal experience, so he made a bit more than me last year, but not by much.

I've quadruple-checked everything, because it makes no sense. My pet theory is that it's because we didn't qualify for 1040EZ or A since we itemized his per diem. Meh. At least it won't hurt me in the long run. Just evidence that the way they calculate EFC is really messed up!


That would probably account for it. I filed a 1040a and thus didn't itemize.

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dresq
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Re: EFC: Non trads get screwed!

Postby dresq » Wed Feb 11, 2009 4:00 pm

Only non-trads with money and other assets get "screwed." Those of us who are actually poor and need assistance don't. My EFC is right at $2k.

rainmaker614
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Re: EFC: Non trads get screwed!

Postby rainmaker614 » Wed Feb 11, 2009 4:02 pm

dresq wrote:Only non-trads with money and other assets get "screwed." Those of us who are actually poor and need assistance don't. My EFC is right at $2k.


While I do agree with you about those who are actually poor should get assistance and all, your EFC of 2k is essentially no more beneficial than one that is 10k. It is still too much to qualify for need based aid but you will get the full amount of the subsidized stafford loan, which is the same situation as someone that makes significantly more money.

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dresq
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Re: EFC: Non trads get screwed!

Postby dresq » Wed Feb 11, 2009 4:07 pm

rainmaker614 wrote:
dresq wrote:Only non-trads with money and other assets get "screwed." Those of us who are actually poor and need assistance don't. My EFC is right at $2k.


While I do agree with you about those who are actually poor should get assistance and all, your EFC of 2k is essentially no more beneficial than one that is 10k. It is still too much to qualify for need based aid but you will get the full amount of the subsidized stafford loan, which is the same situation as someone that makes significantly more money.

Well, that's wonderful. The only reason my EFC is $2k is because of a few thousand dollars I got when my grandma died. I guess I should have been irresponsible and blown it so that I could qualify for more assistance. I only made $12k last year (and every year for the past 8 years). I don't qualify for aid? Now that's getting screwed.

rainmaker614
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Re: EFC: Non trads get screwed!

Postby rainmaker614 » Wed Feb 11, 2009 4:11 pm

dresq wrote:
rainmaker614 wrote:
dresq wrote:Only non-trads with money and other assets get "screwed." Those of us who are actually poor and need assistance don't. My EFC is right at $2k.


While I do agree with you about those who are actually poor should get assistance and all, your EFC of 2k is essentially no more beneficial than one that is 10k. It is still too much to qualify for need based aid but you will get the full amount of the subsidized stafford loan, which is the same situation as someone that makes significantly more money.

Well, that's wonderful. The only reason my EFC is $2k is because of a few thousand dollars I got when my grandma died. I guess I should have been irresponsible and blown it so that I could qualify for more assistance. I only made $12k last year (and every year for the past 8 years). I don't qualify for aid? Now that's getting screwed.


How old are you? If your younger, your parents info is likely what will matter anyways, not yours. Schools with a significant amount of need based aid to offer usually ask for a Needs Access application or a school specific form that you have to fill out with this info. If your parents are low income too, then you could still be eligible.

Otherwise, how the hell did 12k a year give you a EFC of 2k? Take that grandmah money out of your savings and put it in cardboard box under your bed and report 0 on your FAFSA. It would be the ethical thing to do since your getting screwed like that lol.

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gpb19
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Re: EFC: Non trads get screwed!

Postby gpb19 » Wed Feb 11, 2009 4:12 pm

dresq wrote:Only non-trads with money and other assets get "screwed." Those of us who are actually poor and need assistance don't. My EFC is right at $2k.


TINTCR

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dresq
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Re: EFC: Non trads get screwed!

Postby dresq » Wed Feb 11, 2009 4:22 pm

rainmaker614 wrote:
dresq wrote:
rainmaker614 wrote:
dresq wrote:Only non-trads with money and other assets get "screwed." Those of us who are actually poor and need assistance don't. My EFC is right at $2k.


While I do agree with you about those who are actually poor should get assistance and all, your EFC of 2k is essentially no more beneficial than one that is 10k. It is still too much to qualify for need based aid but you will get the full amount of the subsidized stafford loan, which is the same situation as someone that makes significantly more money.

Well, that's wonderful. The only reason my EFC is $2k is because of a few thousand dollars I got when my grandma died. I guess I should have been irresponsible and blown it so that I could qualify for more assistance. I only made $12k last year (and every year for the past 8 years). I don't qualify for aid? Now that's getting screwed.


How old are you? If your younger, your parents info is likely what will matter anyways, not yours. Schools with a significant amount of need based aid to offer usually ask for a Needs Access application or a school specific form that you have to fill out with this info. If your parents are low income too, then you could still be eligible.

Otherwise, how the hell did 12k a year give you a EFC of 2k? Take that grandmah money out of your savings and put it in cardboard box under your bed and report 0 on your FAFSA. It would be the ethical thing to do since your getting screwed like that lol.


I'm 30, and my parents are middle class. It's irrelevant, though, since I haven't received, nor will I receive any money from them. I'm not going to empty my savings into a box either. If a school or the BAR were to audit my banking records, it would be obvious that I had done that, and I'd like to be admitted to the BAR someday. I know an audit is not likely to happen, but that would not look good. Hopefully I'll get merit aid from one of the schools I actually want to go to. So far I've only got $45k from Michigan, but I don't really want to go there. Crossing my fingers for the scholly I'm up for at Penn and maybe some matching at Berkeley.

huckabees
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Re: EFC: Non trads get screwed!

Postby huckabees » Wed Feb 11, 2009 5:23 pm

dresq wrote:I'm not going to empty my savings into a box either. If a school or the BAR were to audit my banking records, it would be obvious that I had done that, and I'd like to be admitted to the BAR someday. I know an audit is not likely to happen, but that would not look good.


Is the Bar really going to audit your banking records?

I gave substantial "gift" sums to my parents during Christmas as a form of loan repayment to them for undergrad. Is that going to put me at risk for not passing the bar because it is considered "emptying out my bank account" for financial aid reasons?

Clever username
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Re: EFC: Non trads get screwed!

Postby Clever username » Wed Feb 11, 2009 5:29 pm

kiwislug wrote:
ShiftyPig wrote:
kiwislug wrote:At least you have a salary. I made about $6,000 last year but I won't get any aid because my parents make too much money.


If you are pursuing a graduate degree, you do not report your parents' income.


you do for needaccess, and all fafsa gives you are LOANS. There will be no need based scholarship money for me because of my parents.


Some schools require parental information. At least Penn State does, if you want to be considered for any need-based grants.

araiza99
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Re: EFC: Non trads get screwed!

Postby araiza99 » Wed Feb 11, 2009 5:50 pm

You all are worrying for nothing. The obama stimulus check is in the mail :D

Seriously, you guys know if the stimulus will impact us? More subsidized money?




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