GI Bill Yellow Ribbon Program

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dapoetic1
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Re: GI Bill Yellow Ribbon Program

Postby dapoetic1 » Mon Apr 13, 2009 6:45 pm

Krys987 wrote:
If you're an undergrad then it doesn't matter if you're taking 12 hours a semester or 22 hours a semsest the tuition is the exact same
.

This is absolutely not true. Each school I've attended (undergrad, 3 different states) charges per tuition hour regardless of full time or part time. Some even charge more for over 18 hours.


I can't and shouldn't speak for every school in the country. But for most public undergraduate schools and in this case the public school is all that matters if you're an undergrad attending full time there is a flat rate for tuition.
Usually once you reach full time status there isn't a difference between a full time student taking 12 hours and a student taking more hours.

My ultimate point is that VA is not just going to be shelling out money because you're a law student taking 16 hours and your school charges $1500 per credit. They're only going to pay up to the cap of the highest in-state undergrad tuition...however that is determined. Even by VA's own explanation they recognize that 12 hours/semester is typically considered to be full-time status. I wasn't attempting to genralize every undergrad program I just wanted to keep it simple

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Rotor
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Re: GI Bill Yellow Ribbon Program

Postby Rotor » Mon Apr 13, 2009 6:47 pm

Great link. I'd like to hear it straight from the horse's mouth (va.gov), but it looks to be good info.

For everyone's benefit: beware, though. It gives an average BAH value. Not sure how it was calculated, but BAH will be based on where you go to school. Just go to

http://www.defensetravel.dod.mil/perdiem/bah.html

and enter the zip for your campus to find the E-5 with dependents rate that you'll actually get.

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Rotor
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Re: GI Bill Yellow Ribbon Program

Postby Rotor » Mon Apr 13, 2009 6:52 pm

dapoetic1 wrote:
Krys987 wrote:
If you're an undergrad then it doesn't matter if you're taking 12 hours a semester or 22 hours a semsest the tuition is the exact same
.

This is absolutely not true. Each school I've attended (undergrad, 3 different states) charges per tuition hour regardless of full time or part time. Some even charge more for over 18 hours.


I can't and shouldn't speak for every school in the country. But for most public undergraduate schools and in this case the public school is all that matters if you're an undergrad attending full time there is a flat rate for tuition.
Usually once you reach full time status there isn't a difference between a full time student taking 12 hours and a student taking more hours.

My ultimate point is that VA is not just going to be shelling out money because you're a law student taking 16 hours and your school charges $1500 per credit. They're only going to pay up to the cap of the highest in-state undergrad tuition...however that is determined. Even by VA's own explanation they recognize that 12 hours/semester is typically considered to be full-time status. I wasn't attempting to genralize every undergrad program I just wanted to keep it simple


Dapoetic: Our back-and-forth has helped me understand the program better and I appreciate it, but ultimately it was the generalization that fueled some of my misunderstanding of what you were saying. That's why I was asking for citations/references. (Note: the Federal Register entry discussing the bill that I posted the link to yesterday listed 14 hours as the FT standard unless a lower one is set by the institution for all students.)

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dapoetic1
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Re: GI Bill Yellow Ribbon Program

Postby dapoetic1 » Mon Apr 13, 2009 7:14 pm

I agree the back-n-forth has definitely helped me delve in and understand my benefits.
When I first saw the new bill I was cluless about how they worked. I couldn't separate tuition benefits from fees and housing.
I've also been able to talk to a 'live' person about VA benefits and that helped to clarify a few questions.
the bad thing is that NOTHING is set in stone yet. Although I was assured that Aug 1 benefits would start and that they're still shooting for May 1 to start accepting applications.
Aside from that the monetary amounts are not 100% yet because many schools still don't have their final 2009-10 numbers and because a lot of schools see what Texas, Oregon and Illinois did to increase their fees schools are starting to take a second look at how they can get the VA to pay higher rates by increasing their maximums. Which could also mean more schools would be willing to participate in YRP b/c they would have to pay less if their tuition and fees that VA paid were higher.

I definitley appreciate all the links and info I'm getting from you guys here sharing what you know.

LSATfromNC
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Re: GI Bill Yellow Ribbon Program

Postby LSATfromNC » Mon Apr 13, 2009 11:06 pm

War, absolute war, read the comments! People will always find something to complain about, I'm happy for anything extra I get! http://military-education.military.com/ ... tions.html

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Rotor
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Re: GI Bill Yellow Ribbon Program

Postby Rotor » Tue Apr 14, 2009 12:53 am

LSATfromNC wrote:War, absolute war, read the comments! People will always find something to complain about, I'm happy for anything extra I get! http://military-education.military.com/ ... tions.html

+1

And half of what they spout is flat out wrong. Wife will get half in divorce? No. Legislation specifically prohibits assignment of the GI Bill as marital property. Someone with 22 years has to do 4 more to transfer to dependents. Again no. Eligibility is run by DOD for retention purposes, but even so I think all services have grandfathered in anyone over 20 as of 1 Aug. For Navy, 16-19 years only have to commit enough years to get to 20 to qualify (like they are leaving anyway...ha). I esp liked the one that said the $ was put away for the member and when it doesn't get used the gov gets rich on it. This may be true for unused MGIB 1200/1800, but the rest is budgeted every year. Congress can't keep their hands off Social Security...do they really think a pot of money overflowing with their education account?

Thanks to all in here. We may not know every detail yet (neither does VA)! But at least we engage brain before keyboard!

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dapoetic1
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Re: GI Bill Yellow Ribbon Program

Postby dapoetic1 » Tue Apr 14, 2009 11:40 am

Those comments are ridiculous!!! They should sign of for TLS and check out this thread :)

Question: Anybody know if the BAH they pay us counts af outside financial aid? Meaning if we're getting $1000/month does that mean that they assume we have $9k/academic year and therefore are eligible for $9k less in financial aid to cover living expenses?

I know with the old (chapter 30) mgib they monthly amount paid to the member could not be considered in the financial aid because it was paid directly to the member and not the school. And I know the tuition payments are paid directly to the school but the BAH is paid directly to the student. So I'm assuming that they can't use that against you, but I haven't seen any specific guidance on whether or not the BAH lowers the total you can get in federal loans.

LSATfromNC
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Re: GI Bill Yellow Ribbon Program

Postby LSATfromNC » Tue Apr 14, 2009 12:07 pm

dapoetic1 wrote:Those comments are ridiculous!!! They should sign of for TLS and check out this thread :)

Question: Anybody know if the BAH they pay us counts af outside financial aid? Meaning if we're getting $1000/month does that mean that they assume we have $9k/academic year and therefore are eligible for $9k less in financial aid to cover living expenses?

I know with the old (chapter 30) mgib they monthly amount paid to the member could not be considered in the financial aid because it was paid directly to the member and not the school. And I know the tuition payments are paid directly to the school but the BAH is paid directly to the student. So I'm assuming that they can't use that against you, but I haven't seen any specific guidance on whether or not the BAH lowers the total you can get in federal loans.


I wouldn't think so. I think BAH is treated just like regular income, only tax free :)

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Rotor
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Re: GI Bill Yellow Ribbon Program

Postby Rotor » Tue Apr 14, 2009 12:28 pm

I don't remember the FAFSA well enough to remember whether it asks you for other untaxed income or not. If not, I don't see how they would know about it. (Need Access is another story. I seem to remember the question there... :( )

Even if they were to somehow capture it, wouldn't it only count against you up to the student budget amount for housing (assuming BAH > Student Budget)? Not sure how that would work, but it just seems wrong to have the school say we're expecting you to pay $10,000 for housing, but because you get a $12,000 housing allowance, we'll count all of that in your expected contribution....

I think in my rush to complete Need Access by the deadline, I think I included everything. After seeing my EFC( :shock: ), I'm thinking I should have perhaps just gone with the tuition bit and claimed plausible deniability when audited. 8)

LSATfromNC
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Re: GI Bill Yellow Ribbon Program

Postby LSATfromNC » Tue Apr 14, 2009 12:35 pm

Rotor wrote:I don't remember the FAFSA well enough to remember whether it asks you for other untaxed income or not. If not, I don't see how they would know about it. (Need Access is another story. I seem to remember the question there... :( )

Even if they were to somehow capture it, wouldn't it only count against you up to the student budget amount for housing (assuming BAH > Student Budget)? Not sure how that would work, but it just seems wrong to have the school say we're expecting you to pay $10,000 for housing, but because you get a $12,000 housing allowance, we'll count all of that in your expected contribution....

I think in my rush to complete Need Access by the deadline, I think I included everything. After seeing my EFC( :shock: ), I'm thinking I should have perhaps just gone with the tuition bit and claimed plausible deniability when audited. 8)


I think it does count against your EFCI; however, with a fair amount of certainty, I do not believe it will affect your COA. Again, this is just my thought. If I was not at work I would call a school and ask.

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dapoetic1
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Re: GI Bill Yellow Ribbon Program

Postby dapoetic1 » Tue Apr 14, 2009 12:38 pm

ok...I just needed to do a quick sanity check.
Too many schools are unfamiliar with GI Bill and can't give definite answers. I've talked to a couple of fin-aid directors that don't even know we get a housing stipend from the post 9-11 GIB. So it's definitely not something they're looking for.

I have a house in a state where I don't currently live, and where I'm not going to school (thanks to mass, mulitiple, PCS-es). It would be great to be able to use my GIB housing to pay for my extra house, car, etc, and use federal loans to pay for an apt. near school. But if they were going to screw me and tell me that I wasn't eligible for federal aid to cover living expenses because I was getting a BAH I was going to go ape $h*T

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Rotor
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Re: GI Bill Yellow Ribbon Program

Postby Rotor » Tue Apr 14, 2009 12:48 pm

dapoetic1 wrote:ok...I just needed to do a quick sanity check.
Too many schools are unfamiliar with GI Bill and can't give definite answers. I've talked to a couple of fin-aid directors that don't even know we get a housing stipend from the post 9-11 GIB. So it's definitely not something they're looking for.

I have a house in a state where I don't currently live, and where I'm not going to school (thanks to mass, mulitiple, PCS-es). It would be great to be able to use my GIB housing to pay for my extra house, car, etc, and use federal loans to pay for an apt. near school. But if they were going to screw me and tell me that I wasn't eligible for federal aid to cover living expenses because I was getting a BAH I was going to go ape $h*T


I think you'll be OK, except if it pushes your EFC closer than 20,500 to the COA. In that case, I think you'll not qualify for the total amount of federal loans and will have to get GRADPlus to cover the rest? (At least this is the way I'm expecting to have to go since as I stand now COA-EFC=~20,000. But with potential reductions for medical and appealing for in-state rate, I probably won't qualify for much more than the subsidized loans. I don't know what crack addict thinks that basing contributions on an income I will no longer have is right, but it is what it is. Things will improve for 2L because I'll be making much less...how oxymoronic.

joensaras
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Re: GI Bill Yellow Ribbon Program

Postby joensaras » Tue Apr 14, 2009 11:23 pm

joehad7 wrote:
Rotor wrote:
joehad7 wrote:Notre Dame IS participating in the YRP. Go Irish!


Damn...I hate having something to actually LIKE about them :lol:

Any idea if they're going to YRP everyone? Select few? Some % less than 100%?


Not sure.


Where did you find this information? I've been hounding finaid since I sent in my seat deposit. I've also been worried that the school might participate in the YRP for undergrad but not grad. Thanks.

LSATfromNC
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Re: GI Bill Yellow Ribbon Program

Postby LSATfromNC » Wed Apr 15, 2009 3:48 pm

Anyone notice whats going on in the fees section? Many states max fees have raised considerably! Any speculation on what it means? Hell Colorado now covers $43,035.00 and Wisconsin is over 30,000.

illmal
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Re: GI Bill Yellow Ribbon Program

Postby illmal » Wed Apr 15, 2009 4:03 pm

I think the schools and the states are still trying to wrap their head around the program, so I think it will be a couple of months before they really know what they are doing. Beside the difficulty of anticipating how the VA is going to finalize the implementation of the program, budgetary constraints mean that schools won't have as much financial flexibility and are afraid to get roped into anything that might obligate them to allocate money somewhere. Though it's pretty much impossible, I would try to avoid riding the roller-coaster as these rates go up and down. It will be a while yet before things are nailed down.

joensaras
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Re: GI Bill Yellow Ribbon Program

Postby joensaras » Wed Apr 15, 2009 4:40 pm

:x
Last edited by joensaras on Thu Apr 16, 2009 3:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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dapoetic1
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Re: GI Bill Yellow Ribbon Program

Postby dapoetic1 » Wed Apr 15, 2009 8:03 pm

LSATfromNC wrote:Anyone notice whats going on in the fees section? Many states max fees have raised considerably! Any speculation on what it means? Hell Colorado now covers $43,035.00 and Wisconsin is over 30,000.



Yes. I have an article on what happened. When I find it I'll post.
Bottom line
VA gave each school/state the flexibility to determine the maximum amount an undergrad (resident) could potentially pay at their school in tuition and fees separately.
Some schools offer programs that include flight training, deep sea diving, and flying to the moon apparently (not really, but close).

The chart that's out now is the 3rd revision or so. The first time a school realized that a student enrolled in Aviation studies might technically have to pay $30k in fees they made that their max. Well...after a few schools caught on they realized they were being way to conservative with their own numbers and went searching deeper into what some of their more expensive undergrad major are. It's all perfectly legal and works on your behalf and here's why...

If a school says they maximum amount of tuition could potentially be $15,000 then VA has to pay you up to that much, and the same with fees. If the fees at one school could get as high as $30k then VA has to pay up to that amount. If your tuition is just a few thousand over what VA will pay schools are more likely to participate in Yellow Ribbon, because, they won't have to dish out as much money because according to the max tuition/fees VA will be picking up a large majority of the costs.

If you notice Texas has a max charge of $1300 but the max tuition in Texas is only about $7k--and UT is the most expensive state school but they used a very specialized undergrad program in engineering (I think) to come up with the max tuition.

So while the fees may seem completely ridiculous understand that those are the highest fees in a few obscure majors but it works to your benefit.

EDIT: found the link and it actually addresses Colorado specifically
http://www.insidehighered.com/news/2009/04/09/gi

alveron
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Re: GI Bill Yellow Ribbon Program

Postby alveron » Wed Apr 15, 2009 10:00 pm

dapoetic1 wrote:
Krys987 wrote:
If you're an undergrad then it doesn't matter if you're taking 12 hours a semester or 22 hours a semsest the tuition is the exact same
.

This is absolutely not true. Each school I've attended (undergrad, 3 different states) charges per tuition hour regardless of full time or part time. Some even charge more for over 18 hours.


I can't and shouldn't speak for every school in the country. But for most public undergraduate schools and in this case the public school is all that matters if you're an undergrad attending full time there is a flat rate for tuition.
Usually once you reach full time status there isn't a difference between a full time student taking 12 hours and a student taking more hours.

My ultimate point is that VA is not just going to be shelling out money because you're a law student taking 16 hours and your school charges $1500 per credit. They're only going to pay up to the cap of the highest in-state undergrad tuition...however that is determined. Even by VA's own explanation they recognize that 12 hours/semester is typically considered to be full-time status. I wasn't attempting to genralize every undergrad program I just wanted to keep it simple


I am not so sure about your last point. I decided to sit down and read the actual regulation and found this:

(b) Maximum amounts payable for training at more than one-half time. An individual, other than one on active duty, who is pursuing a program of education at more than one-half time (at a rate of pursuit greater than 50 percent) and who—

(1) Is enrolled at an institution of higher learning located in the United States, or at a branch of such institution that is located outside the United States, may receive—

(i) A lump sum amount for established charges paid directly to the institution of higher learning for the entire quarter, semester, or term, as applicable. The amount payable will be the sum of the lower amount of tuition as determined in paragraph (b)(1)(i)(A) and the lower amount of fees as determined in paragraph (b)(1)(i)(B) of this section.

(A) The amount of tuition payable is the lesser of—

( 1 ) The actual amount of tuition charged by the institution of higher learning; or

( 2 ) The maximum amount of tuition regularly charged per credit hour to full-time undergraduate in-State students by the public institution of higher learning having the highest rate of regularly-charged tuition per credit hour in the State in which the individual is enrolled or, if the individual is enrolled at a branch located outside the United States, in the State where the main campus of the institution of higher learning is located,
multiplied by the number of credit hours in which the individual is enrolled.

(B) The amount of fees payable is the lesser of—

( 1 ) The actual amount of fees charged by the institution of higher learning; or

( 2 ) The maximum amount of fees regularly charged full-time undergraduate in-State students in a term, quarter, or semester by the public institution of higher learning having the highest rate of regularly-charged fees in a term, quarter, or semester in the State in which the individual is enrolled or, if the individual is enrolled at a branch located outside the United States, in the State where the main campus of the institution of higher learning is located.


As the bold red text states, they will multiply the rate per hour and the number of hours you are enrolled. If that is more than what you are being charged, they will simply pay what you are being charged. The fees section (the right hand column of that silly chart I refresh everyday) is not the max tuition per term but rather just the max fees like you were saying before. I just wanted to clarify that I believe the Max Tuition allowed is calculated by credit hour on an individual basis rather than the flat fee like IAVA believes (I believe they are the ones who published that spreadsheet you posted). The only section that talks about a flat full time rate (based on 24 credit hours) is posted below and refers only to the book stipend.

(iii) An amount for books, supplies, equipment, and other educational costs (referred to as the “book stipend”) payable as a lump sum for each quarter, semester, or term. The maximum amount payable to an eligible individual with remaining entitlement is based on pursuit of twenty-four credit hours (the minimum number of credit hours generally considered to be full-time training at the undergraduate level for an academic year). An individual may receive an amount for each credit hour pursued up to twenty-four credit hours (or the equivalent number of credit hours if enrollment is reported in clock hours) in a single academic year. The lump sum payment for each quarter, semester, or term is equal to—

(A) $41.67 ($1,000 divided by 24 credit hours); multiplied by—

(B) The number of credit hours (or the equivalent number of credit hours if enrollment is reported in clock hours) taken by the individual in the quarter, semester, or term, up to a cumulative total of twenty-four credit hours for the academic year.


I hope I am not rehashing anything that has been discussed before but I am pretty sure I didn't see anything on the thread about it.

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dapoetic1
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Re: GI Bill Yellow Ribbon Program

Postby dapoetic1 » Wed Apr 15, 2009 11:52 pm

Obviously what you posted is accurate.
The problem isn't how they're going to determine what to pay it's what the maximum amount is.

Everything you read/posted is in regards to undergraduate education. If you're an undergrad then they're going to mulitiply the amount of credits you take by the max per credit rate and either pay that or just pay the max tuition

But for law school, and private schools that's not going to be the case. Just because you're taking 16 credits doesn't mean they're going to pay however much it cost for you to take 16 credits. The reason is because 16 law school credits is going to be much more than 16 undergrad credits and you're going o hit the tution cap for the state. It's really not about how many credits you take in law school. If you're a full time student the tuition for law school is going to be more than the state tuition for undergrad. So the most you can get while you're in law school is the max tuition for that state. All the numbers that VA is using and telling you to multiply your max credit charge by the number of credits you're taking can really only apply if the max amount charged is going to be under the overall cap. Law school tuition will undoubtedly be over the overall cap because of the extaordinarily high cost of the per credit or full time rate.

Bottom line: if you're an undergrad add up your credits and the per credit charge and you'll get it if you're at a public school. If you're a law student just expect the max tutition.

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Rotor
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Re: GI Bill Yellow Ribbon Program

Postby Rotor » Thu Apr 16, 2009 12:25 am

alveron wrote:
dapoetic1 wrote:
Krys987 wrote:
If you're an undergrad then it doesn't matter if you're taking 12 hours a semester or 22 hours a semsest the tuition is the exact same
.

This is absolutely not true. Each school I've attended (undergrad, 3 different states) charges per tuition hour regardless of full time or part time. Some even charge more for over 18 hours.


I can't and shouldn't speak for every school in the country. But for most public undergraduate schools and in this case the public school is all that matters if you're an undergrad attending full time there is a flat rate for tuition.
Usually once you reach full time status there isn't a difference between a full time student taking 12 hours and a student taking more hours.

My ultimate point is that VA is not just going to be shelling out money because you're a law student taking 16 hours and your school charges $1500 per credit. They're only going to pay up to the cap of the highest in-state undergrad tuition...however that is determined. Even by VA's own explanation they recognize that 12 hours/semester is typically considered to be full-time status. I wasn't attempting to genralize every undergrad program I just wanted to keep it simple


I am not so sure about your last point. I decided to sit down and read the actual regulation and found this:

(b) Maximum amounts payable for training at more than one-half time. An individual, other than one on active duty, who is pursuing a program of education at more than one-half time (at a rate of pursuit greater than 50 percent) and who—

(1) Is enrolled at an institution of higher learning located in the United States, or at a branch of such institution that is located outside the United States, may receive—

(i) A lump sum amount for established charges paid directly to the institution of higher learning for the entire quarter, semester, or term, as applicable. The amount payable will be the sum of the lower amount of tuition as determined in paragraph (b)(1)(i)(A) and the lower amount of fees as determined in paragraph (b)(1)(i)(B) of this section.

(A) The amount of tuition payable is the lesser of—

( 1 ) The actual amount of tuition charged by the institution of higher learning; or

( 2 ) The maximum amount of tuition regularly charged per credit hour to full-time undergraduate in-State students by the public institution of higher learning having the highest rate of regularly-charged tuition per credit hour in the State in which the individual is enrolled or, if the individual is enrolled at a branch located outside the United States, in the State where the main campus of the institution of higher learning is located,
multiplied by the number of credit hours in which the individual is enrolled.

(B) The amount of fees payable is the lesser of—

( 1 ) The actual amount of fees charged by the institution of higher learning; or

( 2 ) The maximum amount of fees regularly charged full-time undergraduate in-State students in a term, quarter, or semester by the public institution of higher learning having the highest rate of regularly-charged fees in a term, quarter, or semester in the State in which the individual is enrolled or, if the individual is enrolled at a branch located outside the United States, in the State where the main campus of the institution of higher learning is located.


As the bold red text states, they will multiply the rate per hour and the number of hours you are enrolled. If that is more than what you are being charged, they will simply pay what you are being charged. The fees section (the right hand column of that silly chart I refresh everyday) is not the max tuition per term but rather just the max fees like you were saying before. I just wanted to clarify that I believe the Max Tuition allowed is calculated by credit hour on an individual basis rather than the flat fee like IAVA believes (I believe they are the ones who published that spreadsheet you posted). The only section that talks about a flat full time rate (based on 24 credit hours) is posted below and refers only to the book stipend.

(iii) An amount for books, supplies, equipment, and other educational costs (referred to as the “book stipend”) payable as a lump sum for each quarter, semester, or term. The maximum amount payable to an eligible individual with remaining entitlement is based on pursuit of twenty-four credit hours (the minimum number of credit hours generally considered to be full-time training at the undergraduate level for an academic year). An individual may receive an amount for each credit hour pursued up to twenty-four credit hours (or the equivalent number of credit hours if enrollment is reported in clock hours) in a single academic year. The lump sum payment for each quarter, semester, or term is equal to—

(A) $41.67 ($1,000 divided by 24 credit hours); multiplied by—

(B) The number of credit hours (or the equivalent number of credit hours if enrollment is reported in clock hours) taken by the individual in the quarter, semester, or term, up to a cumulative total of twenty-four credit hours for the academic year.


I hope I am not rehashing anything that has been discussed before but I am pretty sure I didn't see anything on the thread about it.

It is a bit of a rehash, but that's OK, b/c it's a confusing part of the law. For a long time, I was 100% onboard with your interpretation of the regulation. However, after much banging my head against the wall debating with dapoetic ( :) ), I went back to the original text in the legislation (not just the regulations) and found this in Title V of the 2008 Appropriations Act:

Sec. 3313(c)(1)(A):``(A) An amount equal to the established charges for the program of education, except that the amount payable under this subparagraph may not exceed the maximum amount of established charges regularly charged in-State students for full-time pursuit of approved programs of education for undergraduates by the public institution of higher education offering approved programs of education for undergraduates in the State in which the individual is enrolled that has the highest rate of regularly-charged established charges for such programs of education among all public institutions of higher education in such State offering such programs of education.


The bolded section is key. Many states actually cap the amount that full time students pay and since as shown above, "the amount payable may not exceed the maximum . . . charges regularly charged in-State students for full time pursuit . . . ."

Now, if you happen to be in a state that has no such cap, your interpretation would be correct. But in a quick review of states of schools where I applied, have attended in the past or paid tuition for my wife, all of them had caps-- even one my wife went to where I know for a fact I paid for every freekin credit hour two years ago. :evil: Far from exhaustive, I know, but enough to bring me around to dapoetic's side as the general rule and have yet to find an exception (though other posts suggest they are out there).

edit: typos

alveron
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Re: GI Bill Yellow Ribbon Program

Postby alveron » Thu Apr 16, 2009 12:43 am

Rotor wrote:It is a bit of a rehash, but that's OK, b/c it's a confusing part of the law. For a long time, I was 100% onboard with your interpretation of the regulation. However, after much banging my head against the wall debating with dapoetic ( :) ), I went back to the original text in the legislation (not just the regulations) and found this in Title V of the 2008 Appropriations Act:

Sec. 3313(c)(1)(A):``(A) An amount equal to the established charges for the program of education, except that the amount payable under this subparagraph may not exceed the maximum amount of established charges regularly charged in-State students for full-time pursuit of approved programs of education for undergraduates by the public institution of higher education offering approved programs of education for undergraduates in the State in which the individual is enrolled that has the highest rate of regularly-charged established charges for such programs of education among all public institutions of higher education in such State offering such programs of education.


The bolded section is key. Many states actually cap the amount that full time students pay and since as shown above, "the amount payable may not exceed the maximum . . . charges regularly charged in-State students for full time pursuit . . . ."

Now, if you happen to be in a state that has no such cap, your interpretation would be correct. But in a quick review of states of schools where I applied, have attended in the past or paid tuition for my wife, all of them had caps-- even one my wife went to where I know for a fact I paid for every freekin credit hour two years ago. :evil: Far from exhaustive, I know, but enough to bring me around to dapoetic's side as the general rule and have yet to find an exception (though other posts suggest they are out there).

edit: typos

Ah, I was wondering if the flat-rate theory was on paper. It will be interesting to see how this all plays out, tbh. Thanks for sharing that with me. At least we are getting practice at what we will be doing for 3 years. Either way, I am doing my initial financial planning based on a flat-rate system since it equals less money and any other money would just be bonus.

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Rotor
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Re: GI Bill Yellow Ribbon Program

Postby Rotor » Thu Apr 16, 2009 1:25 am

alveron wrote:Ah, I was wondering if the flat-rate theory was on paper. It will be interesting to see how this all plays out, tbh. Thanks for sharing that with me. At least we are getting practice at what we will be doing for 3 years. Either way, I am doing my initial financial planning based on a flat-rate system since it equals less money and any other money would just be bonus.


Definitely the safe way to go. I was doing some preliminary planning, estimating 15 hours etc. until I realized that UCs don't technically charge in state tuition (all lumped in fees) so I won't get anything on my invoice that says "tuition"...only fees (huge fees...). C'est la vie.

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dapoetic1
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Re: GI Bill Yellow Ribbon Program

Postby dapoetic1 » Thu Apr 16, 2009 1:34 am

Well said Rotor :D

I'm not trying to rain on anyone's parade. But I definitely don't want people thinking that they're going to take 16 credits and get $900 (or whatever is being paid in that state) for all 16 credits--that's probably not going to happen.
I would rather people find out now that they're probably only going to get on average about $8k/semester (that' just a rough estimate that I made us just now not based on any actual math just a few numbers in my head) than for people to think the VA is going to start writing checks for $15k/semester because that's what it's going to cost the students.

The best we can hope for is for all school's to go back and look at some specific undergrad programs that may end up being very expensive for an undergrad and have them submit the highest fee possible to VA.

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dapoetic1
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Re: GI Bill Yellow Ribbon Program

Postby dapoetic1 » Thu Apr 16, 2009 1:38 am

Rotor wrote:
alveron wrote:Ah, I was wondering if the flat-rate theory was on paper. It will be interesting to see how this all plays out, tbh. Thanks for sharing that with me. At least we are getting practice at what we will be doing for 3 years. Either way, I am doing my initial financial planning based on a flat-rate system since it equals less money and any other money would just be bonus.


Definitely the safe way to go. I was doing some preliminary planning, estimating 15 hours etc. until I realized that UCs don't technically charge in state tuition (all lumped in fees) so I won't get anything on my invoice that says "tuition"...only fees (huge fees...). C'est la vie.



I just kind of realized what you were referring to. Too bad Cali (I assume that's the UC you meant) doesn't have fees set as high as Colorado or Oregon--you would be GOLDEN!!!!

And gibill2008.org does have the chart of the most expensive schools in each state. If you want a good flat rate to go on you can find out which school is the most and then just see how much ugrad tuition is there for full time residents. It's a great resource for figuring out budgets.

LSATfromNC
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Re: GI Bill Yellow Ribbon Program

Postby LSATfromNC » Thu Apr 16, 2009 8:16 am

dapoetic1 wrote:Well said Rotor :D

I'm not trying to rain on anyone's parade. But I definitely don't want people thinking that they're going to take 16 credits and get $900 (or whatever is being paid in that state) for all 16 credits--that's probably not going to happen.
I would rather people find out now that they're probably only going to get on average about $8k/semester (that' just a rough estimate that I made us just now not based on any actual math just a few numbers in my head) than for people to think the VA is going to start writing checks for $15k/semester because that's what it's going to cost the students.

The best we can hope for is for all school's to go back and look at some specific undergrad programs that may end up being very expensive for an undergrad and have them submit the highest fee possible to VA.


I can only speak from my experience, at my school you paid for 15 credits, there were no extra charges if you exceeded that threshold. However, they did cap the amount of credits you could be enrolled in based off your GPA. I actually made it a point to take as many classes as I could to save money, I usually took 18-21 credits at a time.




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