GI Bill Yellow Ribbon Program Forum

[dapoetic1]

Using the state of IL as an example, it seems that some on here are saying that annual tuition benefits would be $17530. This info seems to be pulled from the VA website listing benefit amounts. However, gibill2008.org also has a graph that leads me to believe that benefits would be $9742......

Does anyone have any insight to the why they differ? and better yet which is accurate?

Both totals are correct the problem is that the VA leaves it up to the individual states to determine how much the most expensive in-state undergrad tuition/fees are. In Illinois the University of Illinois at Chicago has the most expensive program at $9k, however each school can use any undergrad program to determine the cost. So they can use say a 5 or 6 year nursing or architecture program that comes out to be a lot more than a standard Arts and Sciences degree program and use that. It's the same way in Tennessee, Ohio, Texas and Iowa. The cost they've listed are not the same as their most expensive "general" full time undergrad curriculum. That's why the numbers keep changing and are so inconsistent.
Personally I would go by whatever is posted to the VA website. It's the only official source for VA benefits and it does get updated very regularly. I've seen 3 or 4 different maximus quoted since the beginning of the year. As different schools sign up for the program and start getting the details I would expect the numbers to start changing as they finalize the details. But since VA is the one writing the check I would stick to their (ever-changing) info.
hth

[Rotor]

does anyone else feel really happy that we veterans get to take advantage of something like this? every time i think of the fact that a good chunk of my law school will be paid for, it makes me smile. thank you, FDR for passing the original gi bill, and thank you 2007 congress for passing the new one!

YES! Without this bill, I'd be doing contract work in Afghanistan to support my family. Now I can afford to reach a goal I set for myself a long time ago. Whatever else Senator Webb does, he has my gratitude for making this bill into law.

Anyone who doesn't is an ingrate! I was never a fan of Webb's since he gave a speech at the Naval Academy when he was SECNAV. However, nearly everything he's touched as my junior senator has been pretty decent and his GI Bill is making my transition much less stressful.

[Krys987]

I just want to point out one important factor on the state by state payout chart:

http://www.military.com/money-for-schoo ... -fee-rates

the left side column is the "per credit hour" rate. As in, that's the tuition they pay. For example:

In the state of Alabama they will pay $243 PER CREDIT HOUR (x15 = $3645). As I'm reading it, this is entirely seperate from the next column.

The right side column is for the maximum school related fees per state. It is entirely seperate from the tuition rate.

Otherwise in a state such as Arizona, for example, the $424.00 max charge would make NO sense alongside $490 max per credit hour.

Make sense? Don't pay so much attention to that right side column unless you're planning on some field that requires INSANE fees (like somewhere in illinois apparently)

If i'm reading this wrong, by all means point it out, but this is how I understand this chart. If all they'll pay in Arizona is really $424 max, that seems completely out of whack....

[dapoetic1]

I just want to point out one important factor on the state by state payout chart:

http://www.military.com/money-for-schoo ... -fee-rates

the left side column is the "per credit hour" rate. As in, that's the tuition they pay. For example:

In the state of Alabama they will pay $243 PER CREDIT HOUR (x15 = $3645). As I'm reading it, this is entirely seperate from the next column.

The right side column is for the maximum school related fees per state. It is entirely seperate from the tuition rate.

Otherwise in a state such as Arizona, for example, the $424.00 max charge would make NO sense alongside $490 max per credit hour.

Make sense? Don't pay so much attention to that right side column unless you're planning on some field that requires INSANE fees (like somewhere in illinois apparently)

If i'm reading this wrong, by all means point it out, but this is how I understand this chart. If all they'll pay in Arizona is really $424 max, that seems completely out of whack....

Sort of.
The per credit hour (left column) is only a factor if you're attending a school part time which for VA purposes is 11 credit hours or less. If you are full time (12 credit hours or more) there is a flat fee. The right side represent the flat fee for tuition and other associated fees that are mandatory fees of full time students. A lot of schools don't make PT students pay certain fees.

[Krys987]

so in arizona they won't pay more than less the part time per credit rate?

I don't really get much of an opportunity to call the VA line, but clarification would be great, especially in the instance of Arizona. That doesn't make any sense at all.

edit: nah. that really can't be correct. i'll call when i get a chance, but i'm willing to bet the "max fees" really is for fees, and independent of the max tuition.

[dapoetic1]

so in arizona they won't pay more than less the part time per credit rate?

I don't really get much of an opportunity to call the VA line, but clarification would be great, especially in the instance of Arizona. That doesn't make any sense at all.

If you go to school part time, say you take 10 credit hours then they will pay ($225x10) or $2250 towards your tuition.
However if you attend full time and take 12 credit hours and anything over this they will pay $6,630. That's because full time tuition and fees is $225x12+all other Full time fees.

Does this making a little more sense?

EDIT: the per credit hour fees is the max at the most expensive school which I believe is U of A. If you attend a school at say Arizona State and their per credit hour rate is only $200 (just an example) then VA will pay $200 x number of credit hours 1-11(for PT), otherwise it's a max of $6,630 at this school too.

[Krys987]

that isn't really what i'm asking at all.

i'll find answers, no worries.

[joehad7]

This week's Air Force Times (and likely the Army, Navy, and Marine versions) has a very helpful breakdown of the tuition and fees offered per state, including totals for each state. The article helped clarify the difference between max tuition and max fees covered.

[LSATfromNC]

This week's Air Force Times (and likely the Army, Navy, and Marine versions) has a very helpful breakdown of the tuition and fees offered per state, including totals for each state. The article helped clarify the difference between max tuition and max fees covered.

Can anyone find this online?

[rtg1281]

This week's Air Force Times (and likely the Army, Navy, and Marine versions) has a very helpful breakdown of the tuition and fees offered per state, including totals for each state. The article helped clarify the difference between max tuition and max fees covered.

care to share some of this info with the rest of us. I dont really feel like subscribing to the online versions of the "Service" Times and would rather not stop at the PX on the way home.

[Rotor]

This week's Air Force Times (and likely the Army, Navy, and Marine versions) has a very helpful breakdown of the tuition and fees offered per state, including totals for each state. The article helped clarify the difference between max tuition and max fees covered.

Can anyone find this online?

I found a link, but it's behind their subscription required password. (I refuse to subscribe to yet another website that I don't NEED to...)

If you have a subscription you should be able to find it. The link is coded and doesn't come up properly with a cut/paste so you'll have to do it the old-fashioned way (Internet pre-2003 or so... ) and track it down yourself.

[Krys987]

I wrote to the FAQ to get definitive clarification, but the site itself seems to say the same thing i was trying to say/ask (from http://www.gibill.va.gov/GI_Bill_Info/C ... ribbon.htm)

Question: What portion of tuition and fees charges will be considered under the Yellow Ribbon Program?

Answer: The difference of the amount charged to the student and what has been paid by VA as educational assistance.

The following steps are provided to determine the difference for one student:

1. Student’s enrolled credit hours reported by the institution to the VA x Maximum Credit Hour Charge for the State = Maximum Tuition Payable

2. Compare the Maximum Tuition Payable with the amount charged the student. VA will pay the institution the lesser amount

3. Compare the Maximum Single Term Fees for your State with what you have charged the student. VA will pay the institution the lesser amount.

4. Add the amounts VA has paid for tuition and fees and compare that with the total amount charged to the student. Institution charges that exceed what has already been paid by VA are the difference that could be applied to the Yellow Ribbon Program.

5. Determine how much of the difference, up to one-half of that amount, that the institution will agree to cover with funds of the institution and the VA will match that amount.

Example: The student enrolled in 12 credit hours during the Fall term and the institution charged the student $5,000 for tuition and $1,200 in fees. The Maximum Charge Per Credit Hour for the State = $250 and the Maximum Fees for a single term = $1,000:
(note the fees and tuition are listed seperately, just like the preliminary table!)

1. 12 credit hours x $250 = $3,000 - VA will pay $3,000 of the $5,000 tuition charged

2. VA will pay $1,000 of the $1,200 fees charged (fees != tuition)

3. VA has paid $4,000 of the $6,200 charged the student. $2,200 could be applied to the Yellow Ribbon Program

4. If the institution fully participates, it would agree to cover $1,100 of this amount and VA will make another payment to the institution for $1,100.

So, column 2 is NOT a total of allowable charges based on column 1. The two are seperate. Apparently some states just have some really insane fees for certain majors at the undergrad level (cough, illinois).

[nukelaloosh]

If you attend a school that does "flat rate" tuition (i.e. Texas who charges $11999/semester for in-state) do they still pay by the credit hour?

If $1333 is the max coverage per credit hour that would make UT free to in-state vets.

In fact, it would exactly cover the maximum tuition for out of state students (at 15 credit hours/semester).

[dapoetic1]

If they're going to separate Full-time Tuition from Mandatory fees associated with Full-time Tuition that could turn out to be a lot more costly for some.
Some schools give a very, very low rate for tuition but they charge 3 times as much in certain "educational fees", which according to VA would not be covered.

Some in-state schools actually have free tuition for residents, but they charge instiutional fees that can be tens of thousands of dollars and wouldn't be covered.
They have to do a better job of spelling out the details.
If your school doesn't participate in YRB you could end up paying just as much as public schools even as a resident as you would private schools.

[Rotor]

Well that is making a little more sense (and I'm happy to see the CA number went up a bit! I was hoping it would after reading an article yesterday about tuition at UG going up 10% for next year).

The thing I'm wondering is with Berkeley, it lists in-state all as "fees" and out-of-state as "non-resident tuition and fees". Couldn't find a breakout for in-state (which is what the VA goes by).

So, I wonder if that would mean I'd qualify for the credit hours*$254 PLUS the $6586.54 per term (PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE) or if $6586.54 is going to be the cap since that's how UCB classifies their charges?

The way I read the VA explanation I think both (again PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE), but 13K+books+housing ain't too shabby.

(dapoetic, your note posted before mine, but it boils down to the same question. Let's hope for a positive clarification)

[Krys987]

the school does not have to participate in YRP in order for you to attend. the school only has to participate if the educational benefit will not cover the total cost of a semester (using one term examples).

if the YRP will cover the cost (because the cost is less than the highest in state tuition) then it's a non issue.

if the cost is greater than highest in state tuition, this is when you need to know if they are participating.

if the school will participate, they are effectively waiving some portion of their fee at their expense. whatever portion of their own fee they will waive, the GI Bill will go above and beyond the in state cap and match.

so, just like in the example:

college A charges $5k for a semester. it's a private school in a state where the highest in state is $3k.

GI Bill pays 3k. college A says "ok we won't be dicks, man, we'll give you a grand and participate in YRP for you!"
GI Bill pays an additional 1k as per YRP.
You have the 5k for CREDIT HOUR TUITION.

Fees is the same exact scenario. GI Bill has a cap based on the highest in state fees. They'll cover up to that amount, YRP participation or not. If there is still a balance beyond their coverage, you can ask the school to waive a portion for the same matching scenario.

TL;DR - YRP participation isn't necessarily required (however you still have to think of all of this in Undergrad terms as it is intended. For grad school you can pretty much still expect to pay the difference).

[joehad7]

If you attend a school that does "flat rate" tuition (i.e. Texas who charges $11999/semester for in-state) do they still pay by the credit hour?

If $1333 is the max coverage per credit hour that would make UT free to in-state vets.

In fact, it would exactly cover the maximum tuition for out of state students (at 15 credit hours/semester).

I'm now starting to really regret my UT rejection. With a 3.57/167, I was right on the cusp. I wonder if they'd reconsider my case if I wrote them an LOCI.

[Krys987]

well asking the VA by email was a dead end. my response was pretty much canned and that the chart is preliminary and nothing is set until august 2009.

in other words, they don't freaking know yet either.

[AndyB617]

so heres a question....has anyone on here participated in the GI bill at all before? i did it for a year with my OJT training, but when i found out that this new GI Bill came into effect I stopped so i could use it. now, if any of you have used the old gi bill, you know that it is such a pain in the ASS to get your money. it literally takes months to get your first check, and you have to call them on the last day of each month to "verify your enrollment". has anyone heard if it's still gonna be like this? or are they planning on streamlining the process and making it a lot easier? i'd like to hope for the latter, but knowing the government, it's probably the former. any thoughts?

[Cole S. Law]

so heres a question....has anyone on here participated in the GI bill at all before? i did it for a year with my OJT training, but when i found out that this new GI Bill came into effect I stopped so i could use it. now, if any of you have used the old gi bill, you know that it is such a pain in the ASS to get your money. it literally takes months to get your first check, and you have to call them on the last day of each month to "verify your enrollment". has anyone heard if it's still gonna be like this? or are they planning on streamlining the process and making it a lot easier? i'd like to hope for the latter, but knowing the government, it's probably the former. any thoughts?

I'm hoping that most of the hassle will be on the financial aid people.

[Rotor]

so heres a question....has anyone on here participated in the GI bill at all before? i did it for a year with my OJT training, but when i found out that this new GI Bill came into effect I stopped so i could use it. now, if any of you have used the old gi bill, you know that it is such a pain in the ASS to get your money. it literally takes months to get your first check, and you have to call them on the last day of each month to "verify your enrollment". has anyone heard if it's still gonna be like this? or are they planning on streamlining the process and making it a lot easier? i'd like to hope for the latter, but knowing the government, it's probably the former. any thoughts?

I'm hoping that most of the hassle will be on the financial aid people.

+1

I was very happy about the pay directly to school clause for this reason.

Now, the books & housing?? We'll see.

[dapoetic1]

so heres a question....has anyone on here participated in the GI bill at all before? i did it for a year with my OJT training, but when i found out that this new GI Bill came into effect I stopped so i could use it. now, if any of you have used the old gi bill, you know that it is such a pain in the ASS to get your money. it literally takes months to get your first check, and you have to call them on the last day of each month to "verify your enrollment". has anyone heard if it's still gonna be like this? or are they planning on streamlining the process and making it a lot easier? i'd like to hope for the latter, but knowing the government, it's probably the former. any thoughts?

I'm hoping that most of the hassle will be on the financial aid people.

+1

I was very happy about the pay directly to school clause for this reason.

Now, the books & housing?? We'll see.

I agree. The tuition assistance program for AD seems to be more hassle free than the monthly mailed checks from VA. Essentially with TA the school just gets a 3rd party agreement that the student is not responsible for a certain portion of the money. So they stop bugging you and they go directly to the funding source. I'm glad they're not mailing us checks anymore. They screwed me by paying me in December and then a year later telling me I owed them money because my last day of class was Dec. 14th so I didn't go the "entire month" and therefore owed them back the entire amount--RAT BASTARDS tried to F-up my credit. I got harassed for 2 weeks trying to get a security clearance because they thought I tried to defraud the government.
...sorry for the tirade.
But I think this process will be mostly between VA and the school since it goes directly to them for tuition. Now...if we only knew how much is going to them for tuition.????

[Rotor]

I got a bunch of good info from the most recent Navy Times. I posted a summary on the generic GI Bill thread here: http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 8#p1367688

It was more appropriate there, but wanted to make sure those who have been contributing to this thread saw it too.

(Joehad...thanks for pointing me in that direction!)

[joehad7]

I got a bunch of good info from the most recent Navy Times. I posted a summary on the generic GI Bill thread here: http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 8#p1367688

It was more appropriate there, but wanted to make sure those who have been contributing to this thread saw it too.

(Joehad...thanks for pointing me in that direction!)

No problem. Thanks for taking the time to summarize all that was in the article. I dropped in on a GI Bill briefing at my base education center today; as I had assumed, they simply rehashed all of the information that was already available.

FWIW, the director of fin aid at WUSTL informed me that they should have better facts and figures for the New GI Bill by next month.

[Cole S. Law]

Went to an ASD today and asked the financial aid rep about Yellow Ribbon. She stated that they will not be participating this year due to the lack of specifics from VA. They may participate next year if the program is explained more clearly. She indicated that most graduate schools she knows of are thinking the same way. Has anyone heard of a school that is participating for certain?