Negotiating a "final offer"

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chichi1992
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Negotiating a "final offer"

Postby chichi1992 » Wed Mar 29, 2017 2:06 pm

Hi All--I just got a very, very small scholarship bump from Notre Dame ($6K total--so basically nothing). About ten minutes later, I got a $15K bump from BU.

I have Chicago/Notre Dame/Irish/deep Catholic (more in the "cultural" than "religious" sense...) ties, so ND would definitely be a better fit for me. When I submitted my scholarship appeal form to ND two weeks ago, I listed my full ride to Iowa and close-to-full-ride to Minnesota. There were only spaces to list two school, and previously, my BU and ND scholarships were basically the same, so I didn't bother submitting a follow-up e-mail with my BU details.

ND's e-mail said that this is their "final offer"--but I think I've read in other threads that there's really no such thing as a final offer. Should I follow up with ND with my new BU offer, or is that overkill? I'm also planning on attending ND's ASD this weekend--do you think it would make sense to thank ND for the small bump, inform them of my new BU offer, and then express my interest in discussing in person this weekend?

saf18hornet
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Re: Negotiating a "final offer"

Postby saf18hornet » Wed Mar 29, 2017 2:57 pm

chichi1992 wrote:Hi All--I just got a very, very small scholarship bump from Notre Dame ($6K total--so basically nothing). About ten minutes later, I got a $15K bump from BU.

I have Chicago/Notre Dame/Irish/deep Catholic (more in the "cultural" than "religious" sense...) ties, so ND would definitely be a better fit for me. When I submitted my scholarship appeal form to ND two weeks ago, I listed my full ride to Iowa and close-to-full-ride to Minnesota. There were only spaces to list two school, and previously, my BU and ND scholarships were basically the same, so I didn't bother submitting a follow-up e-mail with my BU details.

ND's e-mail said that this is their "final offer"--but I think I've read in other threads that there's really no such thing as a final offer. Should I follow up with ND with my new BU offer, or is that overkill? I'm also planning on attending ND's ASD this weekend--do you think it would make sense to thank ND for the small bump, inform them of my new BU offer, and then express my interest in discussing in person this weekend?


I think there is something to be said for negotiating in person. Try to schedule a sit down with someone and do your sweet talking in that manner. If you really want to attend ND, tell them why and give them a scholly number that would make you sign an acceptance right then and there.

cavalier1138
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Re: Negotiating a "final offer"

Postby cavalier1138 » Wed Mar 29, 2017 5:01 pm

Where do you want to work after graduating? Your cultural roots mean fuck-all when it comes to getting a job.

JustWannaGraduate
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Re: Negotiating a "final offer"

Postby JustWannaGraduate » Wed Mar 29, 2017 7:49 pm

cavalier1138 wrote:Where do you want to work after graduating? Your cultural roots mean fuck-all when it comes to getting a job.


Dude, is your objective on these forums just to tell as many people as possible that they're dumb? You're really just being unhelpful most of the time. Try and keep some of your unnecessary opinions to yourself.

lawpotato
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Re: Negotiating a "final offer"

Postby lawpotato » Wed Mar 29, 2017 8:47 pm

JustWannaGraduate wrote:
cavalier1138 wrote:Where do you want to work after graduating? Your cultural roots mean fuck-all when it comes to getting a job.


Dude, is your objective on these forums just to tell as many people as possible that they're dumb? You're really just being unhelpful most of the time. Try and keep some of your unnecessary opinions to yourself.


+1

cavalier1138
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Re: Negotiating a "final offer"

Postby cavalier1138 » Wed Mar 29, 2017 9:00 pm

JustWannaGraduate wrote:
cavalier1138 wrote:Where do you want to work after graduating? Your cultural roots mean fuck-all when it comes to getting a job.


Dude, is your objective on these forums just to tell as many people as possible that they're dumb? You're really just being unhelpful most of the time. Try and keep some of your unnecessary opinions to yourself.


Actually, I asked you a fairly important question. These schools aren't likely to negotiate much further with one another, because if you want to work in Boston, you'll go to BU, and if you want to work in the Midwest, you'll go to ND. That's a decision you need to make, because it's more important than whether you're getting $5k more in scholarship from one school or whether you feel some bullshit "cultural connection" to a school.

Law school isn't undergrad part 2. It's a professional school, and things like "fit" are much less important than where you want to work after graduation and what field you want to work in. If that offends you, oh well. I tried.

Edit: didn't realize you were some weird 0L trying to unnecessarily clog up a thread. This advice applies equally to you, though. So please, think of your future instead of your precious little feelings.

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lawdawg69
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Re: Negotiating a "final offer"

Postby lawdawg69 » Wed Mar 29, 2017 9:15 pm

cavalier1138 wrote:
JustWannaGraduate wrote:
cavalier1138 wrote:Where do you want to work after graduating? Your cultural roots mean fuck-all when it comes to getting a job.


Dude, is your objective on these forums just to tell as many people as possible that they're dumb? You're really just being unhelpful most of the time. Try and keep some of your unnecessary opinions to yourself.


Actually, I asked you a fairly important question. These schools aren't likely to negotiate much further with one another, because if you want to work in Boston, you'll go to BU, and if you want to work in the Midwest, you'll go to ND. That's a decision you need to make, because it's more important than whether you're getting $5k more in scholarship from one school or whether you feel some bullshit "cultural connection" to a school.

Law school isn't undergrad part 2. It's a professional school, and things like "fit" are much less important than where you want to work after graduation and what field you want to work in. If that offends you, oh well. I tried.

Edit: didn't realize you were some weird 0L trying to unnecessarily clog up a thread. This advice applies equally to you, though. So please, think of your future instead of your precious little feelings.


I bet you are a joy to work with.

JustWannaGraduate
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Re: Negotiating a "final offer"

Postby JustWannaGraduate » Wed Mar 29, 2017 9:19 pm

lawdawg69 wrote:
cavalier1138 wrote:
JustWannaGraduate wrote:
cavalier1138 wrote:Where do you want to work after graduating? Your cultural roots mean fuck-all when it comes to getting a job.


Dude, is your objective on these forums just to tell as many people as possible that they're dumb? You're really just being unhelpful most of the time. Try and keep some of your unnecessary opinions to yourself.


Actually, I asked you a fairly important question. These schools aren't likely to negotiate much further with one another, because if you want to work in Boston, you'll go to BU, and if you want to work in the Midwest, you'll go to ND. That's a decision you need to make, because it's more important than whether you're getting $5k more in scholarship from one school or whether you feel some bullshit "cultural connection" to a school.

Law school isn't undergrad part 2. It's a professional school, and things like "fit" are much less important than where you want to work after graduation and what field you want to work in. If that offends you, oh well. I tried.

Edit: didn't realize you were some weird 0L trying to unnecessarily clog up a thread. This advice applies equally to you, though. So please, think of your future instead of your precious little feelings.


I bet you are a joy to work with.


:mrgreen:

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UVA2B
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Re: Negotiating a "final offer"

Postby UVA2B » Wed Mar 29, 2017 9:46 pm

cavalier1138 wrote:
JustWannaGraduate wrote:
cavalier1138 wrote:Where do you want to work after graduating? Your cultural roots mean fuck-all when it comes to getting a job.


Dude, is your objective on these forums just to tell as many people as possible that they're dumb? You're really just being unhelpful most of the time. Try and keep some of your unnecessary opinions to yourself.


Actually, I asked you a fairly important question. These schools aren't likely to negotiate much further with one another, because if you want to work in Boston, you'll go to BU, and if you want to work in the Midwest, you'll go to ND. That's a decision you need to make, because it's more important than whether you're getting $5k more in scholarship from one school or whether you feel some bullshit "cultural connection" to a school.

Law school isn't undergrad part 2. It's a professional school, and things like "fit" are much less important than where you want to work after graduation and what field you want to work in. If that offends you, oh well. I tried.

Edit: didn't realize you were some weird 0L trying to unnecessarily clog up a thread. This advice applies equally to you, though. So please, think of your future instead of your precious little feelings.


It may have been unsolicited, but cavalier is making a good point. If OP wants Chicago, ND or UIUC makes infinitely more sense than BU, and even though they may be peer schools in rankings, the financial officers are likely to be aware of this, meaning negotiations are likely done. If your goals include Chicago, and you're pretty set on that as OP mentioned, ND should be your target (assuming you don't have NU or Chicago on the table), and negotiations are likely to hit a wall because BU will negotiate all day about schools like BC or even arguably Fordham. But at a certain point, ND and BU negotiations will break down because their placement is too dispersed to make them offer up more money for someone clearly not committed to practicing in their region of influence.

Negotiations are about leverage, and you've likely hit a wall with that leverage because both schools are protecting their funds for those who truly want to be in their respective region.

JustWannaGraduate
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Re: Negotiating a "final offer"

Postby JustWannaGraduate » Thu Mar 30, 2017 12:37 am

cavalier1138 wrote:
JustWannaGraduate wrote:
cavalier1138 wrote:Where do you want to work after graduating? Your cultural roots mean fuck-all when it comes to getting a job.


Dude, is your objective on these forums just to tell as many people as possible that they're dumb? You're really just being unhelpful most of the time. Try and keep some of your unnecessary opinions to yourself.


Actually, I asked you a fairly important question. These schools aren't likely to negotiate much further with one another, because if you want to work in Boston, you'll go to BU, and if you want to work in the Midwest, you'll go to ND. That's a decision you need to make, because it's more important than whether you're getting $5k more in scholarship from one school or whether you feel some bullshit "cultural connection" to a school.

Law school isn't undergrad part 2. It's a professional school, and things like "fit" are much less important than where you want to work after graduation and what field you want to work in. If that offends you, oh well. I tried.

Edit: didn't realize you were some weird 0L trying to unnecessarily clog up a thread. This advice applies equally to you, though. So please, think of your future instead of your precious little feelings.


I'm sorry man. Your wise thoughts mean so much to me. I NEED to listen to people like you more. Please keep giving me advice. You are someone I look up to and strive to be

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luckyirish13
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Re: Negotiating a "final offer"

Postby luckyirish13 » Thu Mar 30, 2017 12:42 am

Can we all get back to chichi's question? I don't know enough to answer but I think it's an important question.

JustWannaGraduate
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Re: Negotiating a "final offer"

Postby JustWannaGraduate » Thu Mar 30, 2017 1:25 am

UVA2B wrote:
cavalier1138 wrote:
JustWannaGraduate wrote:
cavalier1138 wrote:Where do you want to work after graduating? Your cultural roots mean fuck-all when it comes to getting a job.


Dude, is your objective on these forums just to tell as many people as possible that they're dumb? You're really just being unhelpful most of the time. Try and keep some of your unnecessary opinions to yourself.


Actually, I asked you a fairly important question. These schools aren't likely to negotiate much further with one another, because if you want to work in Boston, you'll go to BU, and if you want to work in the Midwest, you'll go to ND. That's a decision you need to make, because it's more important than whether you're getting $5k more in scholarship from one school or whether you feel some bullshit "cultural connection" to a school.

Law school isn't undergrad part 2. It's a professional school, and things like "fit" are much less important than where you want to work after graduation and what field you want to work in. If that offends you, oh well. I tried.

Edit: didn't realize you were some weird 0L trying to unnecessarily clog up a thread. This advice applies equally to you, though. So please, think of your future instead of your precious little feelings.


It may have been unsolicited, but cavalier is making a good point. If OP wants Chicago, ND or UIUC makes infinitely more sense than BU, and even though they may be peer schools in rankings, the financial officers are likely to be aware of this, meaning negotiations are likely done. If your goals include Chicago, and you're pretty set on that as OP mentioned, ND should be your target (assuming you don't have NU or Chicago on the table), and negotiations are likely to hit a wall because BU will negotiate all day about schools like BC or even arguably Fordham. But at a certain point, ND and BU negotiations will break down because their placement is too dispersed to make them offer up more money for someone clearly not committed to practicing in their region of influence.

Negotiations are about leverage, and you've likely hit a wall with that leverage because both schools are protecting their funds for those who truly want to be in their respective region.


No doubt that regional schools are regional schools. But it's asinine to think that you can't use another peer school regardless of region to negotiate other offers - just the other day I used an offer from a peer school in the Midwest to increase GW's offer significantly.

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Pomeranian
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Re: Negotiating a "final offer"

Postby Pomeranian » Thu Mar 30, 2017 1:43 am

chichi1992 wrote:
I have Chicago/Notre Dame/Irish/deep Catholic (more in the "cultural" than "religious" sense...) ties, so ND would definitely be a better fit for me.


Or you could just join a church or get involved with a campus ministry instead.

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chichi1992
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Re: Negotiating a "final offer"

Postby chichi1992 » Thu Mar 30, 2017 4:39 am

saf18hornet wrote:
chichi1992 wrote:Hi All--I just got a very, very small scholarship bump from Notre Dame ($6K total--so basically nothing). About ten minutes later, I got a $15K bump from BU.

I have Chicago/Notre Dame/Irish/deep Catholic (more in the "cultural" than "religious" sense...) ties, so ND would definitely be a better fit for me. When I submitted my scholarship appeal form to ND two weeks ago, I listed my full ride to Iowa and close-to-full-ride to Minnesota. There were only spaces to list two school, and previously, my BU and ND scholarships were basically the same, so I didn't bother submitting a follow-up e-mail with my BU details.

ND's e-mail said that this is their "final offer"--but I think I've read in other threads that there's really no such thing as a final offer. Should I follow up with ND with my new BU offer, or is that overkill? I'm also planning on attending ND's ASD this weekend--do you think it would make sense to thank ND for the small bump, inform them of my new BU offer, and then express my interest in discussing in person this weekend?


I think there is something to be said for negotiating in person. Try to schedule a sit down with someone and do your sweet talking in that manner. If you really want to attend ND, tell them why and give them a scholly number that would make you sign an acceptance right then and there.


Thanks! This is what I have decided to do. Hopefully offering to discuss in person will help.

cavalier1138
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Re: Negotiating a "final offer"

Postby cavalier1138 » Thu Mar 30, 2017 5:37 am

JustWannaGraduate wrote:No doubt that regional schools are regional schools. But it's asinine to think that you can't use another peer school regardless of region to negotiate other offers - just the other day I used an offer from a peer school in the Midwest to increase GW's offer significantly.


So in other words, you disagree with me about negotiation leverage, but I'm the asshole for also providing input on the OP's overall decision, which should be based on where they want to work, not on "culture"?

Yes, I'm clearly the one in the wrong here, and I'm glad that you hijacked this thread.

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UVA2B
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Re: Negotiating a "final offer"

Postby UVA2B » Thu Mar 30, 2017 7:52 am

JustWannaGraduate wrote:
UVA2B wrote:
cavalier1138 wrote:
JustWannaGraduate wrote:
cavalier1138 wrote:Where do you want to work after graduating? Your cultural roots mean fuck-all when it comes to getting a job.


Dude, is your objective on these forums just to tell as many people as possible that they're dumb? You're really just being unhelpful most of the time. Try and keep some of your unnecessary opinions to yourself.


Actually, I asked you a fairly important question. These schools aren't likely to negotiate much further with one another, because if you want to work in Boston, you'll go to BU, and if you want to work in the Midwest, you'll go to ND. That's a decision you need to make, because it's more important than whether you're getting $5k more in scholarship from one school or whether you feel some bullshit "cultural connection" to a school.

Law school isn't undergrad part 2. It's a professional school, and things like "fit" are much less important than where you want to work after graduation and what field you want to work in. If that offends you, oh well. I tried.

Edit: didn't realize you were some weird 0L trying to unnecessarily clog up a thread. This advice applies equally to you, though. So please, think of your future instead of your precious little feelings.


It may have been unsolicited, but cavalier is making a good point. If OP wants Chicago, ND or UIUC makes infinitely more sense than BU, and even though they may be peer schools in rankings, the financial officers are likely to be aware of this, meaning negotiations are likely done. If your goals include Chicago, and you're pretty set on that as OP mentioned, ND should be your target (assuming you don't have NU or Chicago on the table), and negotiations are likely to hit a wall because BU will negotiate all day about schools like BC or even arguably Fordham. But at a certain point, ND and BU negotiations will break down because their placement is too dispersed to make them offer up more money for someone clearly not committed to practicing in their region of influence.

Negotiations are about leverage, and you've likely hit a wall with that leverage because both schools are protecting their funds for those who truly want to be in their respective region.


No doubt that regional schools are regional schools. But it's asinine to think that you can't use another peer school regardless of region to negotiate other offers - just the other day I used an offer from a peer school in the Midwest to increase GW's offer significantly.


Maybe the point wasn't sufficiently clear. I'm not saying ND won't negotiate with a BU offer. My point was that, at a certain point, ND will know to stop negotiating with that applicant after they've already dipped at the well once with other peer schools. They do this all the time, and they know how to allocate discounts to maximize returns.

It's always worth a shot absent explicit direction that no more aid will be given, but I'm just saying that the chances of negotiation success go down precipitously the less leverage you have (and negotiating successfully previously with other peer offers does reduce your leverage from a practical perspective).

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chichi1992
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Re: Negotiating a "final offer"

Postby chichi1992 » Thu Mar 30, 2017 9:26 am

Thanks all for your input. To clarify, I wouldn't be choosing ND because it's a good cultural fit (although I can see how my original post could be interpreted that way). I was trying to express that I have a large Chicago-based family and connections in the city who may be able to help with jobs & internships if necessary. I have a safety net in the Chicago area that I would not have anywhere else.

That being said, I don't really know (or care) where I want to end up geographically. I have lived in New York, D.C., Los Angeles, a small town in Illinois, and several cities abroad. I don't have any special affinity for Chicago, but I like the city well enough. My long-term S/O is going to school on the east coast, and his family lives out west. I think I would be fine living anywhere.

BU would currently leave me with less debt, which is why it's in the running (about $30K less, but I may not utilize my full loan eligibility at ND, so the actual delta might be less). I am going to try negotiating with Notre Dame using my updated BU offer, understanding that it may not work out. From everything I've read in this thread and others, I think Notre Dame would be a better decision for me because of my family ties and the safety net I have in Chicago. Every school that I am seriously considering is a "regional" school, and I am not delusional about my job prospects. The Midwest is probably my least risky option.

Thanks again for your responses! (Both on and off topic :) )




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