55%-60% scholarship at Loyola or Chicago-Kent; worth it?

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chicagoburger
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Re: 55%-60% scholarship at Loyola or Chicago-Kent; worth it?

Postby chicagoburger » Tue Mar 21, 2017 11:30 pm

UVA2B wrote:

The reason you need to have some semblance of an idea is because for the biggest sector of hiring, private firm work, happens after 1L year when you've only taken doctrinal courses with possibly one or two classes in your desired or interested field. These classes will do NOTHING to help you figure out what area of law you want to practice. You're not going to read a Contracts decision from 1910 and magically realize, "Yes! Corporate firm work! It all makes sense now!" That's complete lunacy.



You are feeling salty, aren't you? Discard your personal attack bs, let's go to your so called logic above.

If 1L is too busy with standard courses that one can't find his interest in law, maybe senior year in college is too busy for the LSAT too?
Let's go to Junior year, oh sorry, we have to focus on grades and shit... Undoubtedly, one should find tremendous love of law school in freshman because that's when the school offers the most career guidance for legal profession.

You stop pretending to be lecturing with your ridiculous logic.

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Clemenceau
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Re: 55%-60% scholarship at Loyola or Chicago-Kent; worth it?

Postby Clemenceau » Tue Mar 21, 2017 11:35 pm

Don't do it.

If you think its gonna be 80k-90k in debt, it will almost certainly end up being 6 figures when you graduate. Everyone lowballs it.

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UVA2B
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Re: 55%-60% scholarship at Loyola or Chicago-Kent; worth it?

Postby UVA2B » Tue Mar 21, 2017 11:50 pm

chicagoburger wrote:
UVA2B wrote:

The reason you need to have some semblance of an idea is because for the biggest sector of hiring, private firm work, happens after 1L year when you've only taken doctrinal courses with possibly one or two classes in your desired or interested field. These classes will do NOTHING to help you figure out what area of law you want to practice. You're not going to read a Contracts decision from 1910 and magically realize, "Yes! Corporate firm work! It all makes sense now!" That's complete lunacy.



You are feeling salty, aren't you? Discard your personal attack bs, let's go to your so called logic above.

If 1L is too busy with standard courses that one can't find his interest in law, maybe senior year in college is too busy for the LSAT too?
Let's go to Junior year, oh sorry, we have to focus on grades and shit... Undoubtedly, one should find tremendous love of law school in freshman because that's when the school offers the most career guidance for legal profession.

You stop pretending to be lecturing with your ridiculous logic.


Are you really this purposefully dunce?

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zot1
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Re: 55%-60% scholarship at Loyola or Chicago-Kent; worth it?

Postby zot1 » Wed Mar 22, 2017 12:26 am

chicagoburger wrote:
UVA2B wrote:

The reason you need to have some semblance of an idea is because for the biggest sector of hiring, private firm work, happens after 1L year when you've only taken doctrinal courses with possibly one or two classes in your desired or interested field. These classes will do NOTHING to help you figure out what area of law you want to practice. You're not going to read a Contracts decision from 1910 and magically realize, "Yes! Corporate firm work! It all makes sense now!" That's complete lunacy.



You are feeling salty, aren't you? Discard your personal attack bs, let's go to your so called logic above.

If 1L is too busy with standard courses that one can't find his interest in law, maybe senior year in college is too busy for the LSAT too?
Let's go to Junior year, oh sorry, we have to focus on grades and shit... Undoubtedly, one should find tremendous love of law school in freshman because that's when the school offers the most career guidance for legal profession.

You stop pretending to be lecturing with your ridiculous logic.


Lol you make no sense.

RedPurpleBlue
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Re: 55%-60% scholarship at Loyola or Chicago-Kent; worth it?

Postby RedPurpleBlue » Wed Mar 22, 2017 1:24 am

Clemenceau wrote:Don't do it.

If you think its gonna be 80k-90k in debt, it will almost certainly end up being 6 figures when you graduate. Everyone lowballs it.


To add on to this OP, I did the math, and it would cost you $128k if you had a 60% tuition scholarship at Loyola. That includes the mandatory fees, discounted tuition, room, and board. This excludes health insurance costs, personal costs, and transportation costs, which add up to ~$7k in Loyola's loan estimates. If you needed those loans, Loyola would cost $150k at a 50% chance to become a lawyer. You don't want to have that kind of debt hanging over your head at a law school with those sorts of odds of actually becoming a lawyer, especially if you end up having to go back to your sales job. You would have missed out on $50k/yr. for 3yrs. + increased $150k worth of debt. Sure, maybe you don't want to do sales, but you need to figure out what you want to do before you commit yourself to some graduate field "because why not." You also need to go to a law school that gives you a better than 50% shot at being a lawyer. Take some time off rom school and work at your decent paying sales job while studying rigorously for the LSAT until you can get to a point where Loyola is free or you can go to a school that actually gives you a decent shot at practicing for a reasonable price.

cavalier1138
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Re: 55%-60% scholarship at Loyola or Chicago-Kent; worth it?

Postby cavalier1138 » Wed Mar 22, 2017 5:46 am

chicagoburger wrote: OP has every reason to excel given his choice matches his goals.


What goals?

rzzza
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Re: 55%-60% scholarship at Loyola or Chicago-Kent; worth it?

Postby rzzza » Sun Mar 26, 2017 10:10 am

Thanks for the advice guys. A few more questions:

I had my offer raised by Kent to match Loyola's. I'm getting about $80,000 from both schools. Should I wait till the April 15th seat deposit deadline to try coming back at Loyola to ask them to raise their scholarship offer to beat Kent's? I've seen some people say its better to wait till after the seat deposit deadlines to negotiate because schools might have more money. I'm afraid it might be too late.

Also I've been reading up on some new fields of work for attorneys in something called 'E-discovery', I was wondering how viable of a specialty that is for students to focus on.

cavalier1138
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Re: 55%-60% scholarship at Loyola or Chicago-Kent; worth it?

Postby cavalier1138 » Sun Mar 26, 2017 10:42 am

rzzza wrote:Thanks for the advice guys. A few more questions:

I had my offer raised by Kent to match Loyola's. I'm getting about $80,000 from both schools. Should I wait till the April 15th seat deposit deadline to try coming back at Loyola to ask them to raise their scholarship offer to beat Kent's? I've seen some people say its better to wait till after the seat deposit deadlines to negotiate because schools might have more money. I'm afraid it might be too late.

Also I've been reading up on some new fields of work for attorneys in something called 'E-discovery', I was wondering how viable of a specialty that is for students to focus on.


You should not go to law school.

And I love the idea of focusing on e-discovery. A lawyer focusing on the field that's supposed to destroy the need for junior associates. Awesome. Anyway, you can't focus on that during school, and you'd need a really strong tech background to get involved with any of the companies doing the work.

But seriously, don't go. I don't know why you're so sold on the idea of going to a mediocre school for three years, studying a field you have no real interest in, taking on a stupid amount of debt, and graduating into a job that pays less than what your currently earn, making you completely incapable of realistically servicing that debt. And to cap it all off, you're doing it because you can't think of anything better to do with your time.

Imagine if you were reading your own posts from another person's perspective, but make them about medical school instead of law school. Would you think that person was making a good decision?

rzzza
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Re: 55%-60% scholarship at Loyola or Chicago-Kent; worth it?

Postby rzzza » Sun Mar 26, 2017 10:57 am

cavalier1138 wrote:
rzzza wrote:Thanks for the advice guys. A few more questions:

I had my offer raised by Kent to match Loyola's. I'm getting about $80,000 from both schools. Should I wait till the April 15th seat deposit deadline to try coming back at Loyola to ask them to raise their scholarship offer to beat Kent's? I've seen some people say its better to wait till after the seat deposit deadlines to negotiate because schools might have more money. I'm afraid it might be too late.

Also I've been reading up on some new fields of work for attorneys in something called 'E-discovery', I was wondering how viable of a specialty that is for students to focus on.


You should not go to law school.

And I love the idea of focusing on e-discovery. A lawyer focusing on the field that's supposed to destroy the need for junior associates. Awesome. Anyway, you can't focus on that during school, and you'd need a really strong tech background to get involved with any of the companies doing the work.

But seriously, don't go. I don't know why you're so sold on the idea of going to a mediocre school for three years, studying a field you have no real interest in, taking on a stupid amount of debt, and graduating into a job that pays less than what your currently earn, making you completely incapable of realistically servicing that debt. And to cap it all off, you're doing it because you can't think of anything better to do with your time.

Imagine if you were reading your own posts from another person's perspective, but make them about medical school instead of law school. Would you think that person was making a good decision?


The situation is a bit different. Med schools is harder than law school. If you can get into med school and your skill set aligns with medical practice, I'd say shoot for the stars yo. Why would someone just be a sales guy all their life just because they're already in that position and its easier to stay there? People leaving medical school leave with way more debt than I'm looking at anyway. Everyone has debt. Everyone who isn't the intellectual elite has to pay debt back for graduate degrees. It's gotta be like the top 1% that even get offered full rides to ivy league schools. And a lot of you guys are basically saying don't pursue a graduate degree unless you're one of those people. At least that's the message that I'm inferring.

I'm looking for example at the people in the illinois state senate. I don't see any ivy league law school grads. I see a guy who graduated from John Marshall and a lady that graduated from Northern Illinois University. Two of the lowest ranked schools in the state. And these people are now writing legislation.

So to me its whatever, I'm sick of the law school scaremongering.

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UVA2B
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Re: 55%-60% scholarship at Loyola or Chicago-Kent; worth it?

Postby UVA2B » Sun Mar 26, 2017 11:02 am

So you weren't actually looking for advice, just confirmation that you're making a good life decision? Ask people who are afraid to tell you the truth. You won't get that here.

rzzza
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Re: 55%-60% scholarship at Loyola or Chicago-Kent; worth it?

Postby rzzza » Sun Mar 26, 2017 11:06 am

UVA2B wrote:So you weren't actually looking for advice, just confirmation that you're making a good life decision? Ask people who are afraid to tell you the truth. You won't get that here.


I'm looking for advice but instead of people telling me that I should reverse course I'm looking for people to advise me on the best route to take assuming law school is a given. Reversing course is not an option for me. So please advise me on how I could 1) negotiate the least amount of debt and 2) maximize my time in school so that I know what fields are the best/worst to look into. I was already told that international, sports law and e-discovery are not things I should look to specialize in. That was helpful.

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UVA2B
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Re: 55%-60% scholarship at Loyola or Chicago-Kent; worth it?

Postby UVA2B » Sun Mar 26, 2017 11:11 am

rzzza wrote:
UVA2B wrote:So you weren't actually looking for advice, just confirmation that you're making a good life decision? Ask people who are afraid to tell you the truth. You won't get that here.


I'm looking for advice but instead of people telling me that I should reverse course I'm looking for people to advise me on the best route to take assuming law school is a given. Reversing course is not an option for me. So please advise me on how I could 1) negotiate the least amount of debt and 2) maximize my time in school so that I know what fields are the best/worst to look into. I was already told that international, sports law and e-discovery are not things I should look to specialize in. That was helpful.


1. Get a better LSAT. That's how you negotiate most effectively. You need leverage in negotiating, and the way you get leverage is make yourself more desirable to them.

2. Once you limit debt to a minimum at these schools, meet small firm attorneys in the area, ask them what they do/what their day to day practice is like. It'll probably be some mixture of personal injury, divorce and family law, criminal (on the PD side), with a smattering of other generally simple matters.

If none of the above interests you, realize you almost assuredly made a huge mistake because other types of law are all but closed off to you from these schools. At that point, maybe you'll understand everything we're telling you.

cavalier1138
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Re: 55%-60% scholarship at Loyola or Chicago-Kent; worth it?

Postby cavalier1138 » Sun Mar 26, 2017 11:19 am

rzzza wrote:
UVA2B wrote:So you weren't actually looking for advice, just confirmation that you're making a good life decision? Ask people who are afraid to tell you the truth. You won't get that here.


I'm looking for advice but instead of people telling me that I should reverse course I'm looking for people to advise me on the best route to take assuming law school is a given. Reversing course is not an option for me. So please advise me on how I could 1) negotiate the least amount of debt and 2) maximize my time in school so that I know what fields are the best/worst to look into. I was already told that international, sports law and e-discovery are not things I should look to specialize in. That was helpful.


In order of quality, here's the advice:

1. Don't go to law school. Grow up and quit it with the "reversing course is not an option for me" bullshit.

2. Retake the LSAT and get a better score. Either don't take on debt for this idiotic scheme, or give yourself a chance to make enough money to pay it off.

3. Go to one of these schools at the price you've been offered. Get a $45k-a-year job (if you get a job as a lawyer at all). Be miserable in a field you don't like for years to come as you struggle to pay off your debt. Occasionally post here as a cautionary tale to other 0Ls who are absolutely convinced that law school is a great fallback option for people with nothing better to do.

rzzza
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Re: 55%-60% scholarship at Loyola or Chicago-Kent; worth it?

Postby rzzza » Sun Mar 26, 2017 11:29 am

UVA2B wrote:
rzzza wrote:
UVA2B wrote:So you weren't actually looking for advice, just confirmation that you're making a good life decision? Ask people who are afraid to tell you the truth. You won't get that here.


I'm looking for advice but instead of people telling me that I should reverse course I'm looking for people to advise me on the best route to take assuming law school is a given. Reversing course is not an option for me. So please advise me on how I could 1) negotiate the least amount of debt and 2) maximize my time in school so that I know what fields are the best/worst to look into. I was already told that international, sports law and e-discovery are not things I should look to specialize in. That was helpful.


1. Get a better LSAT. That's how you negotiate most effectively. You need leverage in negotiating, and the way you get leverage is make yourself more desirable to them.

2. Once you limit debt to a minimum at these schools, meet small firm attorneys in the area, ask them what they do/what their day to day practice is like. It'll probably be some mixture of personal injury, divorce and family law, criminal (on the PD side), with a smattering of other generally simple matters.

If none of the above interests you, realize you almost assuredly made a huge mistake because other types of law are all but closed off to you from these schools. At that point, maybe you'll understand everything we're telling you.


My LSAT score and uGPA is already higher than either of these school's median. By a point or two, but still higher. What kind of applicants are they looking to offer full rides to?

Would it be a good or bad idea to say in my negotiations with them that minimizing debt is very important to me and that schools like dePaul or NIU have offered me full rides. Or would they not care or take offense to that since those schools are not similarly ranked, even though they have similar JD required employment rates for grads?

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UVA2B
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Re: 55%-60% scholarship at Loyola or Chicago-Kent; worth it?

Postby UVA2B » Sun Mar 26, 2017 11:43 am

Get above their 75th LSAT to maximize scholarships.

You can always ask and they'll probably say no if they don't consider the schools peers. I have no idea who these schools consider as peers, so just ask and see what they say.

Lastly, and I will never stop saying this in cases like yours, really think about the type of law you'll be practicing coming out of these schools (assuming you get a JD required job at all), because you're essentially guaranteeing your best outcome as small firm work and non-competitive criminal law work. If those things don't interest you, you shouldn't be going to law school.

rzzza
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Re: 55%-60% scholarship at Loyola or Chicago-Kent; worth it?

Postby rzzza » Sun Mar 26, 2017 12:11 pm

UVA2B wrote:Get above their 75th LSAT to maximize scholarships.

You can always ask and they'll probably say no if they don't consider the schools peers. I have no idea who these schools consider as peers, so just ask and see what they say.

Lastly, and I will never stop saying this in cases like yours, really think about the type of law you'll be practicing coming out of these schools (assuming you get a JD required job at all), because you're essentially guaranteeing your best outcome as small firm work and non-competitive criminal law work. If those things don't interest you, you shouldn't be going to law school.


Alright, cool thanks.

So is it better to negotiate after the first seat deposit deadline or before? I've seen people say both. I've seen people say its not a good idea because submitting multiple seat deposits might anger the schools and make them pull your scholarship offers. And I've also seen people claim that law schools will have more money in the pool to offer students after the deadline has passed, so they're more amenable to negotiations. I don't see any way to negotiate after the deadline without submitting multiple deposits though.

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UVA2B
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Re: 55%-60% scholarship at Loyola or Chicago-Kent; worth it?

Postby UVA2B » Sun Mar 26, 2017 12:23 pm

rzzza wrote:
UVA2B wrote:Get above their 75th LSAT to maximize scholarships.

You can always ask and they'll probably say no if they don't consider the schools peers. I have no idea who these schools consider as peers, so just ask and see what they say.

Lastly, and I will never stop saying this in cases like yours, really think about the type of law you'll be practicing coming out of these schools (assuming you get a JD required job at all), because you're essentially guaranteeing your best outcome as small firm work and non-competitive criminal law work. If those things don't interest you, you shouldn't be going to law school.


Alright, cool thanks.

So is it better to negotiate after the first seat deposit deadline or before? I've seen people say both. I've seen people say its not a good idea because submitting multiple seat deposits might anger the schools and make them pull your scholarship offers. And I've also seen people claim that law schools will have more money in the pool to offer students after the deadline has passed, so they're more amenable to negotiations. I don't see any way to negotiate after the deadline without submitting multiple deposits though.


It doesn't matter, negotiate when you have things to negotiate with. If you have better offers, go to them with it. If you don't, ask nicely because of how important this financial decision is for your future. There doesn't have to be etiquette in negotiating, only balances in power. If you don't have any leverage, they won't budge before, during, or after when seat deposits are due.

And please, for the love of all that is holy, take my last piece of advice seriously, because as it stands, you're considering going into six figures of debt to ultimately make $45k/year in the best, most likely case. That's financial suicide and you will be crushed by that debt without any recourse for the rest of your life. Your credit will go to hell if you default on your loans. You won't be able to create any sort of financial freedom because that debt will be hanging around your neck. Your life will be miserable, and you have no idea if you'll even like this career. Do you really want to throw caution to the wind on a career you very well might hate that could lead you down a path of financial ruin? You can reason with yourself all you want that this is a decision that's already been made and you're definitely going to one of these schools, but that's just not true. You don't have to perform financial hari kari because your job right now bores you. That's what you're doing taking on $100k+ of debt to get the jobs Kent or Loyola will more than likely get you (if you get a JD required job at all).

Please tell me this rationale makes sense to you. Please tell me you're considering how potentially dire you're making your financial situation in doing this, and that you don't want to saddle yourself with that much debt for a job that won't service the debt. If you want to be that cavalier with being under the crushing weight of debt you can't pay off, then pick whichever school appeals to you most, because it really doesn't matter. But never forget that you were vehemently and thoroughly warned about the implications of the decision you're considering.

rzzza
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Re: 55%-60% scholarship at Loyola or Chicago-Kent; worth it?

Postby rzzza » Sun Mar 26, 2017 12:42 pm

UVA2B wrote:
rzzza wrote:
UVA2B wrote:Get above their 75th LSAT to maximize scholarships.

You can always ask and they'll probably say no if they don't consider the schools peers. I have no idea who these schools consider as peers, so just ask and see what they say.

Lastly, and I will never stop saying this in cases like yours, really think about the type of law you'll be practicing coming out of these schools (assuming you get a JD required job at all), because you're essentially guaranteeing your best outcome as small firm work and non-competitive criminal law work. If those things don't interest you, you shouldn't be going to law school.


Alright, cool thanks.

So is it better to negotiate after the first seat deposit deadline or before? I've seen people say both. I've seen people say its not a good idea because submitting multiple seat deposits might anger the schools and make them pull your scholarship offers. And I've also seen people claim that law schools will have more money in the pool to offer students after the deadline has passed, so they're more amenable to negotiations. I don't see any way to negotiate after the deadline without submitting multiple deposits though.


It doesn't matter, negotiate when you have things to negotiate with. If you have better offers, go to them with it. If you don't, ask nicely because of how important this financial decision is for your future. There doesn't have to be etiquette in negotiating, only balances in power. If you don't have any leverage, they won't budge before, during, or after when seat deposits are due.

And please, for the love of all that is holy, take my last piece of advice seriously, because as it stands, you're considering going into six figures of debt to ultimately make $45k/year in the best, most likely case. That's financial suicide and you will be crushed by that debt without any recourse for the rest of your life. Your credit will go to hell if you default on your loans. You won't be able to create any sort of financial freedom because that debt will be hanging around your neck. Your life will be miserable, and you have no idea if you'll even like this career. Do you really want to throw caution to the wind on a career you very well might hate that could lead you down a path of financial ruin? You can reason with yourself all you want that this is a decision that's already been made and you're definitely going to one of these schools, but that's just not true. You don't have to perform financial hari kari because your job right now bores you. That's what you're doing taking on $100k+ of debt to get the jobs Kent or Loyola will more than likely get you (if you get a JD required job at all).

Please tell me this rationale makes sense to you. Please tell me you're considering how potentially dire you're making your financial situation in doing this, and that you don't want to saddle yourself with that much debt for a job that won't service the debt. If you want to be that cavalier with being under the crushing weight of debt you can't pay off, then pick whichever school appeals to you most, because it really doesn't matter. But never forget that you were vehemently and thoroughly warned about the implications of the decision you're considering.


I understand the risk and thanks for your warnings. My parents want me to go to law school and I want to make them happy before they...die of old age. They've had law school set on their brains for me for years and they just won't understand at all if I tell them I'm scared of the debt and decide not to pursue any higher education at all and stick with the sales thing. To them an attorney is a more proud occupation than a salesman is. Debt is a reality for any type of education in this country, be it undergrad or post-grad degrees. Debt is unavoidable (unless you're the elite 1% and either have parents pay for everything or get offered full rides) so I just view this 60k-70k of debt as the price that's paid for admission.

I've been told till I'm blue in the face not to go to law school, that its a terrible investment and I'll most likely end up destitute and living behind a dumpster somewhere if I decide to go to law school. My parents understand NONE OF THIS. They still think law school is a golden ticket to a $100k a year job. They'll be terribly, terribly disappointed if I decline law school and I'd rather live with 70k of student loan debt than to see them disappointed. This is my last chance to make something of my self. Nothing else is an option. I'm not going to be a doctor, I'm not going to business school. I'm terrible at math. It's either law school or inside sales for the rest of my life. I'd rather take a gamble to get that J.D. next to my name on the ol' resume.

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Re: 55%-60% scholarship at Loyola or Chicago-Kent; worth it?

Postby criminaltheory » Sun Mar 26, 2017 12:56 pm

If you can't stand up to your parents, how are you going to be an effective advocate for anyone else?

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Re: 55%-60% scholarship at Loyola or Chicago-Kent; worth it?

Postby cavalier1138 » Sun Mar 26, 2017 12:56 pm

Just one last try:

OP, doing this to please your parents means that literally every single reason you have for wanting to attend law school is terrible. You have actually listed all of the worst possible reasons for forcing yourself to get a graduate degree you don't want or need: perceived resume boost, pleasing parents, nothing better to do.

You are, I assume, no longer relying on your parents to support you. If they can't be happy without you having a JD, then they're just not that great at the whole parenting thing, but I'm betting that they're probably pretty decent at it, which means they just want you to be happy. Regardless of whether you're accurately reading their minds, you cannot base this decision on that. I promise you that you will regret it for years to come.

This is an objectively bad career move for you. Please take some time to be objective about it, because it's clear you've wrapped yourself up in your idea of getting a JD and your idea of what your parents want for you. You're literally throwing your life away because of your misconceptions.

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Johann
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Re: 55%-60% scholarship at Loyola or Chicago-Kent; worth it?

Postby Johann » Sun Mar 26, 2017 1:28 pm

rzzza wrote:Thanks for the advice guys. A few more questions:

I had my offer raised by Kent to match Loyola's. I'm getting about $80,000 from both schools. Should I wait till the April 15th seat deposit deadline to try coming back at Loyola to ask them to raise their scholarship offer to beat Kent's? I've seen some people say its better to wait till after the seat deposit deadlines to negotiate because schools might have more money. I'm afraid it might be too late.

Also I've been reading up on some new fields of work for attorneys in something called 'E-discovery', I was wondering how viable of a specialty that is for students to focus on.


e-discovery and data privacy are going to be hot areas of the law now and into the future. but e-discovery is basically just managing large productions. if a company has to produce every document concerning X, the e-discovery aspect is how to find all those documents within a company's records and then turn those over to the other side. so there's usually an e-discovery person within the company in-house side, and a large outside vendor usually produces the docs and searches for the hits (doc review, which sucks). some law firms are starting to in-house the production work becuase its lucrative, so they are hiring paralegal type roles that specialize in this. e-discovery will definitely provide lots of jobs for the years to come, but its also not really a legal niche if that makes sense.

data privacy on the flip side is an actual legal niche. lots of big 4 companies are getting into data privacy advising. know a couple people in this area and its legit - lots of room for advancement because its a new area, clients pay their bills, more advising/consulting and less paper pushing.

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Johann
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Re: 55%-60% scholarship at Loyola or Chicago-Kent; worth it?

Postby Johann » Sun Mar 26, 2017 1:37 pm

UVA2B wrote:
rzzza wrote:
UVA2B wrote:Get above their 75th LSAT to maximize scholarships.

You can always ask and they'll probably say no if they don't consider the schools peers. I have no idea who these schools consider as peers, so just ask and see what they say.

Lastly, and I will never stop saying this in cases like yours, really think about the type of law you'll be practicing coming out of these schools (assuming you get a JD required job at all), because you're essentially guaranteeing your best outcome as small firm work and non-competitive criminal law work. If those things don't interest you, you shouldn't be going to law school.


Alright, cool thanks.

So is it better to negotiate after the first seat deposit deadline or before? I've seen people say both. I've seen people say its not a good idea because submitting multiple seat deposits might anger the schools and make them pull your scholarship offers. And I've also seen people claim that law schools will have more money in the pool to offer students after the deadline has passed, so they're more amenable to negotiations. I don't see any way to negotiate after the deadline without submitting multiple deposits though.


It doesn't matter, negotiate when you have things to negotiate with. If you have better offers, go to them with it. If you don't, ask nicely because of how important this financial decision is for your future. There doesn't have to be etiquette in negotiating, only balances in power. If you don't have any leverage, they won't budge before, during, or after when seat deposits are due.

And please, for the love of all that is holy, take my last piece of advice seriously, because as it stands, you're considering going into six figures of debt to ultimately make $45k/year in the best, most likely case. That's financial suicide and you will be crushed by that debt without any recourse for the rest of your life. Your credit will go to hell if you default on your loans. You won't be able to create any sort of financial freedom because that debt will be hanging around your neck. Your life will be miserable, and you have no idea if you'll even like this career. Do you really want to throw caution to the wind on a career you very well might hate that could lead you down a path of financial ruin? You can reason with yourself all you want that this is a decision that's already been made and you're definitely going to one of these schools, but that's just not true. You don't have to perform financial hari kari because your job right now bores you. That's what you're doing taking on $100k+ of debt to get the jobs Kent or Loyola will more than likely get you (if you get a JD required job at all).

Please tell me this rationale makes sense to you. Please tell me you're considering how potentially dire you're making your financial situation in doing this, and that you don't want to saddle yourself with that much debt for a job that won't service the debt. If you want to be that cavalier with being under the crushing weight of debt you can't pay off, then pick whichever school appeals to you most, because it really doesn't matter. But never forget that you were vehemently and thoroughly warned about the implications of the decision you're considering.


just so OP knows, legal salaries do increase if you stay in the law industry. people that make 45k at graduation usually can get ~10k raises per year until they settle in the 75k-120k range at which point the leaps up requires/is dependent on your book of business. (after the JD study says 50% of TTT grads make 100k or more if they're still in the legal industry after 10 years). there are also debt repayment plans (PAYE, REPAYE) that cap your annual loan payments to 10% of (your salary - 17k). so they can service the debt for the first few years if they last in the industry.

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Johann
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Re: 55%-60% scholarship at Loyola or Chicago-Kent; worth it?

Postby Johann » Sun Mar 26, 2017 1:40 pm

rzzza wrote:
I've been told till I'm blue in the face not to go to law school, that its a terrible investment and I'll most likely end up destitute and living behind a dumpster somewhere if I decide to go to law school. My parents understand NONE OF THIS. They still think law school is a golden ticket to a $100k a year job. They'll be terribly, terribly disappointed if I decline law school and I'd rather live with 70k of student loan debt than to see them disappointed. This is my last chance to make something of my self. Nothing else is an option. I'm not going to be a doctor, I'm not going to business school. I'm terrible at math. It's either law school or inside sales for the rest of my life. I'd rather take a gamble to get that J.D. next to my name on the ol' resume.


best of luck man. bust your ass 1L (50 hour weeks including the 15 hours of class) at loyola for law review and network your ass off at events. do lots of externships your 2l and 3l years for that sweet govt life.

rzzza
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Joined: Wed Mar 15, 2017 9:42 pm

Re: 55%-60% scholarship at Loyola or Chicago-Kent; worth it?

Postby rzzza » Sun Mar 26, 2017 1:52 pm

JohannDeMann wrote:
rzzza wrote:
I've been told till I'm blue in the face not to go to law school, that its a terrible investment and I'll most likely end up destitute and living behind a dumpster somewhere if I decide to go to law school. My parents understand NONE OF THIS. They still think law school is a golden ticket to a $100k a year job. They'll be terribly, terribly disappointed if I decline law school and I'd rather live with 70k of student loan debt than to see them disappointed. This is my last chance to make something of my self. Nothing else is an option. I'm not going to be a doctor, I'm not going to business school. I'm terrible at math. It's either law school or inside sales for the rest of my life. I'd rather take a gamble to get that J.D. next to my name on the ol' resume.


best of luck man. bust your ass 1L (50 hour weeks including the 15 hours of class) at loyola for law review and network your ass off at events. do lots of externships your 2l and 3l years for that sweet govt life.


Thx man. Could you tell me more about this data privacy area of practice? Or maybe you can post a link to some other site that explains it more. What classes should I look into taking in 2L and 3L that might help me in this niche. I'm interested in pursuing an area of law thats actually growing rather than one that's stagnating or dying.

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Johann
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Re: 55%-60% scholarship at Loyola or Chicago-Kent; worth it?

Postby Johann » Sun Mar 26, 2017 1:56 pm

rzzza wrote:
JohannDeMann wrote:
rzzza wrote:
I've been told till I'm blue in the face not to go to law school, that its a terrible investment and I'll most likely end up destitute and living behind a dumpster somewhere if I decide to go to law school. My parents understand NONE OF THIS. They still think law school is a golden ticket to a $100k a year job. They'll be terribly, terribly disappointed if I decline law school and I'd rather live with 70k of student loan debt than to see them disappointed. This is my last chance to make something of my self. Nothing else is an option. I'm not going to be a doctor, I'm not going to business school. I'm terrible at math. It's either law school or inside sales for the rest of my life. I'd rather take a gamble to get that J.D. next to my name on the ol' resume.


best of luck man. bust your ass 1L (50 hour weeks including the 15 hours of class) at loyola for law review and network your ass off at events. do lots of externships your 2l and 3l years for that sweet govt life.


Thx man. Could you tell me more about this data privacy area of practice? Or maybe you can post a link to some other site that explains it more. What classes should I look into taking in 2L and 3L that might help me in this niche. I'm interested in pursuing an area of law thats actually growing rather than one that's stagnating or dying.


http://www.pwc.com/us/en/risk-assurance ... ivacy.html

1L classes are set. 2L id take fed tax for sure and anything else heavily regulation based - healthcare law classes. not sure their complete course offerings, but im happy to discuss via pm in the future. just knock 1L out of the park - that's your only concern first year.




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