Negotiating out of UVA Forum

[FishstickIII]

Hey everybody!

I received a large scholarship at UVA and I'm incredibly grateful, but I'm not sure it's the best fit for me. I hate softball and beer, and while I'm not crazy anti social, I prefer (infrequent) smaller group things over partying (medical condition prevents me from drinking). Everything I just wrote was among a list of characteristics of an individual who might not like UVA lol (on that law school video YouTube channel). If I had to pick an ideal law school environment, I'd probably go with UChi (which seems to be the exact opposite of UVA).

Is this something to be concerned about or should I just suck it up for three years? What should my negotiation strategy be if I want to avoid UVA but they offered the best scholarship by far?

No preferences on location and I'm interested in PI.

Numbers (ranged for anonymity):

LSAT 173-176, GPA 3.6-3.7

UVA: 135,000-145,000
Mich: 120,000
Duke: 80,0000-90,0000
Berkeley: unknown (but probably not amazing if mylsn is any indication)
Columbia: 45,000-60,000 (guess)
Northwestern: unknown
UCLA: 70,000-80,000
WUSTL: 150,000-160,000

Waiting on admissions decisions from: UChi (likely waitlist), Harvard, Stanford, NYU

Michigan is obviously the closest but they frequently seem unwilling to negotiate. I'm afraid if I go to them too soon, they'll shut me down and I'll be forced to go to UVA. Again, I'd be grateful for this outcome, but I'm not too eager to attend a school with a culture completely opposed to my personality (did it for undergrad and it wasn't the best). Thanks!

[UVA2B]

I think your fears about the culture are a bit overblown, and you shouldn't let the 0L misrepresentation of UVA as just drinking culture and softball dissuade you from considering it. The student body is sufficiently large where you can/will find people with similar interests and social setting desires. Will there be some people who love softball and regularly go to bar review? Sure, but I doubt that's even unique to UVA. You just won't hang out with them or befriend them outside the classroom setting. But everyone is friendly and respectful of people's relative comfort with participating in some of the more drink heavy events (Foxfield, bar review, to a lesser extent softball).

PM me if you have other questions about life at UVA, but I think you should at minimum do ASW or a visit to get a sense of the culture at UVA, because I think you'll find it slightly different than you might feel right now. If UVA is your best cost option of those you've listed, it should absolutely be your first choice. You can make UVA what you want it to be.

ETA: obviously love a softball is more unique to UVA, speaking to drinking culture mostly

[FishstickIII]

I think your fears about the culture are a bit overblown, and you shouldn't let the 0L misrepresentation of UVA as just drinking culture and softball dissuade you from considering it. The student body is sufficiently large where you can/will find people with similar interests and social setting desires. Will there be some people who love softball and regularly go to bar review? Sure, but I doubt that's even unique to UVA. You just won't hang out with them or befriend them outside the classroom setting. But everyone is friendly and respectful of people's relative comfort with participating in some of the more drink heavy events (Foxfield, bar review, to a lesser extent softball).

PM me if you have other questions about life at UVA, but I think you should at minimum do ASW or a visit to get a sense of the culture at UVA, because I think you'll find it slightly different than you might feel right now. If UVA is your best cost option of those you've listed, it should absolutely be your first choice. You can make UVA what you want it to be.

ETA: obviously love a softball is more unique to UVA, speaking to drinking culture mostly

Thanks for the response! I am attending ASW and I definitely like many aspects of UVA. It's still my first choice despite my concerns about the culture. I'll on a few specific questions. Thanks!!

[dianersg]

Hey everybody!

I received a large scholarship at UVA and I'm incredibly grateful, but I'm not sure it's the best fit for me. I hate softball and beer, and while I'm not crazy anti social, I prefer (infrequent) smaller group things over partying (medical condition prevents me from drinking). Everything I just wrote was among a list of characteristics of an individual who might not like UVA lol (on that law school video YouTube channel). If I had to pick an ideal law school environment, I'd probably go with UChi (which seems to be the exact opposite of UVA).

Is this something to be concerned about or should I just suck it up for three years? What should my negotiation strategy be if I want to avoid UVA but they offered the best scholarship by far?

No preferences on location and I'm interested in PI.

Numbers (ranged for anonymity):

LSAT 173-176, GPA 3.6-3.7

UVA: 135,000-145,000
Mich: 120,000
Duke: 80,0000-90,0000
Berkeley: unknown (but probably not amazing if mylsn is any indication)
Columbia: 45,000-60,000 (guess)
Northwestern: unknown
UCLA: 70,000-80,000
WUSTL: 150,000-160,000

Waiting on admissions decisions from: UChi (likely waitlist), Harvard, Stanford, NYU

Michigan is obviously the closest but they frequently seem unwilling to negotiate. I'm afraid if I go to them too soon, they'll shut me down and I'll be forced to go to UVA. Again, I'd be grateful for this outcome, but I'm not too eager to attend a school with a culture completely opposed to my personality (did it for undergrad and it wasn't the best). Thanks!

I also received my largest scholarship from UVA and feel it is the best school for me in terms of my employment goals and location. The only concern I have is the culture as well, as I also don't drink and am not "fratty" at all. I have a feeling that, just as other posters have said, there will be people who do not match with the stereotypical UVA student. I am planning to attend ASW and get a feel for the other students, so just know that there are others making the same decision!

[SeewhathappensLarry]

There is so much to do here besides softball and drinking-related events. I hate softball, rarely go to drinking events, and I love it here. I really do not think it can be described as fratty. It sounds silly to me to avoid a law school that gave you the most money based on a TLS 0L impression that doesn't have much basis in fact.

[Future Ex-Engineer]

Not super helpful, but I'd kill to have your UVA scholarship. Michigan offered us the same amount, and I got more from WUSTL, but significantly less than UVA. Can we trade?

[ZVBXRPL]

My 3L friend at UVA is a family man of religion and doesn't drink at all. Has only great things to say about UVA.

[Nebby]

Go to UVA you dolt

[FishstickIII]

There is so much to do here besides softball and drinking-related events. I hate softball, rarely go to drinking events, and I love it here. I really do not think it can be described as fratty. It sounds silly to me to avoid a law school that gave you the most money based on a TLS 0L impression that doesn't have much basis in fact.

Thanks for the response! I am attending ASW and I definitely like many aspects of UVA. It's still my first choice despite my concerns about the culture

This was largely meant to be a negotiation thread. I'd only attend UVA if it offered the most money, so I'm trying to see if there's a strategy for getting more money from another school like Michigan. Never said I would decline UVA for an inferior offer.

[BlendedUnicorn]

Go to UVA you dolt

Though I guess maybe Mich is defensible if you want to end up in the MidBest?

For what it's worth I drank plenty of beer and played a lot of IM sports including softball at Chicago.

[FishstickIII]

Hey everybody!

I received a large scholarship at UVA and I'm incredibly grateful, but I'm not sure it's the best fit for me. I hate softball and beer, and while I'm not crazy anti social, I prefer (infrequent) smaller group things over partying (medical condition prevents me from drinking). Everything I just wrote was among a list of characteristics of an individual who might not like UVA lol (on that law school video YouTube channel). If I had to pick an ideal law school environment, I'd probably go with UChi (which seems to be the exact opposite of UVA).

Is this something to be concerned about or should I just suck it up for three years? What should my negotiation strategy be if I want to avoid UVA but they offered the best scholarship by far?

No preferences on location and I'm interested in PI.

Numbers (ranged for anonymity):

LSAT 173-176, GPA 3.6-3.7

UVA: 135,000-145,000
Mich: 120,000
Duke: 80,0000-90,0000
Berkeley: unknown (but probably not amazing if mylsn is any indication)
Columbia: 45,000-60,000 (guess)
Northwestern: unknown
UCLA: 70,000-80,000
WUSTL: 150,000-160,000

Waiting on admissions decisions from: UChi (likely waitlist), Harvard, Stanford, NYU

Michigan is obviously the closest but they frequently seem unwilling to negotiate. I'm afraid if I go to them too soon, they'll shut me down and I'll be forced to go to UVA. Again, I'd be grateful for this outcome, but I'm not too eager to attend a school with a culture completely opposed to my personality (did it for undergrad and it wasn't the best). Thanks!

I also received my largest scholarship from UVA and feel it is the best school for me in terms of my employment goals and location. The only concern I have is the culture as well, as I also don't drink and am not "fratty" at all. I have a feeling that, just as other posters have said, there will be people who do not match with the stereotypical UVA student. I am planning to attend ASW and get a feel for the other students, so just know that there are others making the same decision!

Yeah the culture is definitely not a deal breaker for me but I would take an offer from Michigan or Berk if they matched (which is why I created the thread). I'll be at ASW as well so I'm sure I'll see you around! Good luck with your decision!

[FishstickIII]

Go to UVA you dolt

Lolz never said I wouldn't. Just wanted to see if it would be feasible (anecdotally) to get Michigan or Berk to match. Hence the presence of this post on the finances board. Would never take an inferior offer.

[FishstickIII]

Go to UVA you dolt

Though I guess maybe Mich is defensible if you want to end up in the MidBest?

For what it's worth I drank plenty of beer and played a lot of IM sports including softball at Chicago.

I'm mostly interested in anecdotal accounts of getting mich to match. I'm not interested in taking an inferior offer. Just giving context for why I wouldn't take UVA outright.

[FishstickIII]

Not super helpful, but I'd kill to have your UVA scholarship. Michigan offered us the same amount, and I got more from WUSTL, but significantly less than UVA. Can we trade?

Hmmm tempting but hard pass haha. Have you considered negotiating with Michigan?

[BlendedUnicorn]

Go to UVA you dolt

Though I guess maybe Mich is defensible if you want to end up in the MidBest?

For what it's worth I drank plenty of beer and played a lot of IM sports including softball at Chicago.

I'm mostly interested in anecdotal accounts of getting mich to match. I'm not interested in taking an inferior offer. Just giving context for why I wouldn't take UVA outright.

Fair enough. And admissions officers tend to believe their own propaganda about "school culture" and other things that don't exist so including some version of your original spiel (focusing more on why school x would be a good fit for you and less on why UVA isn't) in your negotiations might be a good play. Just know that most law students treat law schools as fungible goods so you're going to be getting a very similar mix of people at every school with small marginal differences.

[FishstickIII]

Go to UVA you dolt

Though I guess maybe Mich is defensible if you want to end up in the MidBest?

For what it's worth I drank plenty of beer and played a lot of IM sports including softball at Chicago.

I'm mostly interested in anecdotal accounts of getting mich to match. I'm not interested in taking an inferior offer. Just giving context for why I wouldn't take UVA outright.

Fair enough. And admissions officers tend to believe their own propaganda about "school culture" and other things that don't exist so including some version of your original spiel (focusing more on why school x would be a good fit for you and less on why UVA isn't) in your negotiations might be a good play. Just know that most law students treat law schools as fungible goods so you're going to be getting a very similar mix of people at every school with small marginal differences.

That's a good idea! I think that would be especially helpful with Berk. Thanks!

And yeah I'm not too attached to the idea of culture at most schools. UVA just seemed to have an especially strong culture that also seemed to be completely opposed to my personality. Though I'm going to ASW with an open mind and I'm happy to be proven wrong (and I'm going to UVA unless I get a better offer so I might as well be happy about it!).

[20170322]

Go to UVA you dolt

Though I guess maybe Mich is defensible if you want to end up in the MidBest?

For what it's worth I drank plenty of beer and played a lot of IM sports including softball at Chicago.

I'm mostly interested in anecdotal accounts of getting mich to match. I'm not interested in taking an inferior offer. Just giving context for why I wouldn't take UVA outright.

Fair enough. And admissions officers tend to believe their own propaganda about "school culture" and other things that don't exist so including some version of your original spiel (focusing more on why school x would be a good fit for you and less on why UVA isn't) in your negotiations might be a good play. Just know that most law students treat law schools as fungible goods so you're going to be getting a very similar mix of people at every school with small marginal differences.

That's a good idea! I think that would be especially helpful with Berk. Thanks!

And yeah I'm not too attached to the idea of culture at most schools. UVA just seemed to have an especially strong culture that also seemed to be completely opposed to my personality. Though I'm going to ASW with an open mind and I'm happy to be proven wrong (and I'm going to UVA unless I get a better offer so I might as well be happy about it!).

Have you visited yet? I was concerned about the culture of UVA based on this board, but then I got there and it was super friendly and academic. I think the t14's are all very similar, so this board tries to play up minor differences to distinguish them.

[FishstickIII]

Go to UVA you dolt

Though I guess maybe Mich is defensible if you want to end up in the MidBest?

For what it's worth I drank plenty of beer and played a lot of IM sports including softball at Chicago.

I'm mostly interested in anecdotal accounts of getting mich to match. I'm not interested in taking an inferior offer. Just giving context for why I wouldn't take UVA outright.

Fair enough. And admissions officers tend to believe their own propaganda about "school culture" and other things that don't exist so including some version of your original spiel (focusing more on why school x would be a good fit for you and less on why UVA isn't) in your negotiations might be a good play. Just know that most law students treat law schools as fungible goods so you're going to be getting a very similar mix of people at every school with small marginal differences.

That's a good idea! I think that would be especially helpful with Berk. Thanks!

And yeah I'm not too attached to the idea of culture at most schools. UVA just seemed to have an especially strong culture that also seemed to be completely opposed to my personality. Though I'm going to ASW with an open mind and I'm happy to be proven wrong (and I'm going to UVA unless I get a better offer so I might as well be happy about it!).

Have you visited yet? I was concerned about the culture of UVA based on this board, but then I got there and it was super friendly and academic. I think the t14's are all very similar, so this board tries to play up minor differences to distinguish them.

No not yet, but I'm going to ASW! I read some of the "UVA students taking questions" threads and they played up aspects of the "culture" I felt meh about, so your point about distinguishing the schools is probably correct. However, I won't know for sure until I get there. Like I said above, I'm definitely going to ASW with an open mind, but in the meantime, I wanted to develop a strategy to see if Michigan could potentially match or exceed UVA (just in case). Regardless, I know this is a purely financial decision. Thanks for the comment, I'm sure my experience will be similar to yours!

[20170322]

Go to UVA you dolt

Though I guess maybe Mich is defensible if you want to end up in the MidBest?

For what it's worth I drank plenty of beer and played a lot of IM sports including softball at Chicago.

I'm mostly interested in anecdotal accounts of getting mich to match. I'm not interested in taking an inferior offer. Just giving context for why I wouldn't take UVA outright.

Fair enough. And admissions officers tend to believe their own propaganda about "school culture" and other things that don't exist so including some version of your original spiel (focusing more on why school x would be a good fit for you and less on why UVA isn't) in your negotiations might be a good play. Just know that most law students treat law schools as fungible goods so you're going to be getting a very similar mix of people at every school with small marginal differences.

That's a good idea! I think that would be especially helpful with Berk. Thanks!

And yeah I'm not too attached to the idea of culture at most schools. UVA just seemed to have an especially strong culture that also seemed to be completely opposed to my personality. Though I'm going to ASW with an open mind and I'm happy to be proven wrong (and I'm going to UVA unless I get a better offer so I might as well be happy about it!).

Have you visited yet? I was concerned about the culture of UVA based on this board, but then I got there and it was super friendly and academic. I think the t14's are all very similar, so this board tries to play up minor differences to distinguish them.

No not yet, but I'm going to ASW! I read some of the "UVA students taking questions" threads and they played up aspects of the "culture" I felt meh about, so your point about distinguishing the schools is probably correct. However, I won't know for sure until I get there. Like I said above, I'm definitely going to ASW with an open mind, but in the meantime, I wanted to develop a strategy to see if Michigan could potentially match or exceed UVA (just in case). Regardless, I know this is a purely financial decision. Thanks for the comment, I'm sure my experience will be similar to yours!

I'll be at ASW as well. PM me if you want a non frat asshat to chill with. It'll be a good time, regardless of your final decision.

[FishstickIII]

I'll be at ASW as well. PM me if you want a non frat asshat to chill with. It'll be a good time, regardless of your final decision.

Haha I definitely will! Thanks for the offer!

[saf18hornet]

You guys must be reading too many threads with K-JD 0L's. Do you really think the top priority of law students is frat hopping on weekends?