Top Law Schools

A. Nony Mouse wrote:Trump has actually proposed improving repayment plans (forgiveness after a shorter period), so he's not philosophically opposed. Not that that necessarily governs what Republicans collectively will do, of course.

If my loan could be forgiven in 4 years, that'd be great.

If Trump's daughter is actually going to HLS next year, that's probably a good sign for PSLF. He wouldn't want her to be hated by 13.6% of her classmates. Protecting his daughters' popularity will be an important part of his public policy.

(I wish I was joking. This administration is going to be really weird.)

The top five schools aren't really where the credit risk is in terms of getting paid back. If we move back to a system of private lender origination, the clear positive ROI degrees will be rewarded while the more tenuous degrees will get crushed. Any cap on Grad Plus for HLS will probably get filled in by Sofi at probably better rates than the government offers now

Given the past week and a half, I am apt to reconsider relying on PSLF.

tag

Earlskies wrote:Given the past week and a half, I am apt to reconsider relying on PSLF.

You guys, seriously. Sure, maybe there's a chance it doesn't happen, but this issue is a giant chunk of fresh meat on a silver platter just waiting for Trump to take and show off to his populist constituents. His supporters would love him to pull the rug out from under a bunch of civil servants, lawyers and teachers.

I'm correct in my understanding that PSLF and LRAP are separate, right? LRAP is usually provided by the school whereas PSLF is federal, correct?

brinicolec wrote:I'm correct in my understanding that PSLF and LRAP are separate, right? LRAP is usually provided by the school whereas PSLF is federal, correct?

Yes

haus wrote:

brinicolec wrote:I'm correct in my understanding that PSLF and LRAP are separate, right? LRAP is usually provided by the school whereas PSLF is federal, correct?

Yes

Yes*

*Except some schools integrate their LRAP plan to work with the promise of PSLF. So their LRAP program just helps you meet IBR payments, not pay down your actual loan. Some of the schools doing this (mainly the ones in the T14 who had LRAP programs prior to PSLF existing) would be able to switch back to the pure LRAP program should Congress do anything to get rid of PSLF, but a number of schools only have an LRAP program because they don't have to do anything beyond helping with IBR payments.

cavalier1138 wrote:

haus wrote:

brinicolec wrote:I'm correct in my understanding that PSLF and LRAP are separate, right? LRAP is usually provided by the school whereas PSLF is federal, correct?

Yes

*Except some schools integrate their LRAP plan to work with the promise of PSLF. So their LRAP program just helps you meet IBR payments, not pay down your actual loan. Some of the schools doing this (mainly the ones in the T14 who had LRAP programs prior to PSLF existing) would be able to switch back to the pure LRAP program should Congress do anything to get rid of PSLF, but a number of schools only have an LRAP program because they don't have to do anything beyond helping with IBR payments.

And some schools such as Georgetown only cover the lesser 10% of income PAYE plan and ask you to file separately for taxes so they don't have to pay more, then they cover the cost of the LRAP through raising tuition on their classes every year. Law schools financing their LRAP programs this way will have almost no assistance if the federal govt clamps down on Grad Plus and PSLF because private lenders won't want to lend the last $100,000

studentloanplanner wrote:

cavalier1138 wrote:

haus wrote:

brinicolec wrote:I'm correct in my understanding that PSLF and LRAP are separate, right? LRAP is usually provided by the school whereas PSLF is federal, correct?

Yes

*Except some schools integrate their LRAP plan to work with the promise of PSLF. So their LRAP program just helps you meet IBR payments, not pay down your actual loan. Some of the schools doing this (mainly the ones in the T14 who had LRAP programs prior to PSLF existing) would be able to switch back to the pure LRAP program should Congress do anything to get rid of PSLF, but a number of schools only have an LRAP program because they don't have to do anything beyond helping with IBR payments.

And some schools such as Georgetown only cover the lesser 10% of income PAYE plan and ask you to file separately for taxes so they don't have to pay more, then they cover the cost of the LRAP through raising tuition on their classes every year. Law schools financing their LRAP programs this way will have almost no assistance if the federal govt clamps down on Grad Plus and PSLF because private lenders won't want to lend the last $100,000

So do you think that Georgetown would have to rid of LRAP completely if the federal government rid of PSLF?

brinicolec wrote:

studentloanplanner wrote:

cavalier1138 wrote:

haus wrote:

brinicolec wrote:I'm correct in my understanding that PSLF and LRAP are separate, right? LRAP is usually provided by the school whereas PSLF is federal, correct?

Yes

*Except some schools integrate their LRAP plan to work with the promise of PSLF. So their LRAP program just helps you meet IBR payments, not pay down your actual loan. Some of the schools doing this (mainly the ones in the T14 who had LRAP programs prior to PSLF existing) would be able to switch back to the pure LRAP program should Congress do anything to get rid of PSLF, but a number of schools only have an LRAP program because they don't have to do anything beyond helping with IBR payments.

And some schools such as Georgetown only cover the lesser 10% of income PAYE plan and ask you to file separately for taxes so they don't have to pay more, then they cover the cost of the LRAP through raising tuition on their classes every year. Law schools financing their LRAP programs this way will have almost no assistance if the federal govt clamps down on Grad Plus and PSLF because private lenders won't want to lend the last $100,000

So do you think that Georgetown would have to rid of LRAP completely if the federal government rid of PSLF?

QTNA!! Georgetown is completely off my list if their LRAP is in such a fragile position. LRAP is my only saving grace. Without a solid LRAP, it's regional school for me for sure.

brinicolec wrote: So do you think that Georgetown would have to rid of LRAP completely if the federal government rid of PSLF?

They'll have an LRAP probably but it would cover a fraction of the tuition burden. In the absence of PSLF their program right now covers about $3,000 a year for the average person. That's like a 5% off coupon for your tuition, which doesn't move the needle at all

Earlskies wrote:Given the past week and a half, I am apt to reconsider relying on PSLF.

Isn't it weird to go into debt counting on loan forgiveness?

pyramidenergy888 wrote:

Earlskies wrote:Given the past week and a half, I am apt to reconsider relying on PSLF.

Isn't it weird to go into debt counting on loan forgiveness?

Isn't it weird to put your money in banks, counting on the FDIC to cover you in the event the bank collapses?

PSLF is a federal program, and the government has made a series of guarantees to students who want to enter the public service field. It's not unreasonable or weird to count on that, and even though this Congress may try to gut the program, I highly doubt that students who took out loans when those promises were made are going to be affected. It was already mentioned above, but your promissory notes for student loans have language addressing PSLF, so it would be an uphill battle for the government to claim they weren't going to allow those students to qualify for it through public service.

pyramidenergy888 wrote:

Earlskies wrote:Given the past week and a half, I am apt to reconsider relying on PSLF.

Isn't it weird to go into debt counting on loan forgiveness?

Why would it be weird?

The interesting thing is that this time last year, we were very worried about the future of PSLF. The president - for the third time in 3 years - proposed a budget capping the loans recognized by FPSLF at $57,500. Last year, this week, the House budget committee agreed using the White House language, "to protect against institutional practices that may further increase student indebtedness, while ensuring the program provides sufficient
relief for students committed to public service;
Fortunately the President did not push, and Congress did not act on that part of the budget. This year we, maybe, have Reauthorization. Perhaps? this President and Congress will adhere to the master calendar provisions, so unlikely any change for borrowers in 2017-18.

A. Nony Mouse wrote:

pyramidenergy888 wrote:

Earlskies wrote:Given the past week and a half, I am apt to reconsider relying on PSLF.

Isn't it weird to go into debt counting on loan forgiveness?

Why would it be weird?

Because PSLF is not a guarantee when you take out loans, it's a guarantee only when you start working. So someone who is a 0L and wants to rely on PSLF basically has to pray for 3 years that the current administration is not going to pull the rug out from under them. It's a very risky move to take because there is no guarantee as a 0L even though a lot of students attending top schools who wish to do PI rely on this as their only source of financial relief in the future.

Stylnator wrote:

A. Nony Mouse wrote:

pyramidenergy888 wrote:

Earlskies wrote:Given the past week and a half, I am apt to reconsider relying on PSLF.

Isn't it weird to go into debt counting on loan forgiveness?

Why would it be weird?

Because PSLF is not a guarantee when you take out loans, it's a guarantee only when you start working. So someone who is a 0L and wants to rely on PSLF basically has to pray for 3 years that the current administration is not going to pull the rug out from under them. It's a very risky move to take because there is no guarantee as a 0L even though a lot of students attending top schools who wish to do PI rely on this as their only source of financial relief in the future.

I get that it's risky. I don't get why it's weird, unless you consider risky synonymous with weird.

(To the extent that it's a guarantee of anything: PSLF is actually in the promissory note you take out when you take out loans, it doesn't get triggered only once you start working. To the extent it's not guaranteed: you're not actually "on" PSLF until you've done the 120 payments and apply for forgiveness. Until then you're on a income-based plan, working in qualifying employment, with the intent of applying for forgiveness.)

A. Nony Mouse wrote:

pyramidenergy888 wrote:

Earlskies wrote:Given the past week and a half, I am apt to reconsider relying on PSLF.

Isn't it weird to go into debt counting on loan forgiveness?

Why would it be weird?

Because you're taking out a loan with the knowledge that you're not going to pay it back and rely on forgiveness. Thought that was kind of self evident.

pyramidenergy888 wrote:

A. Nony Mouse wrote:

pyramidenergy888 wrote:

Earlskies wrote:Given the past week and a half, I am apt to reconsider relying on PSLF.

Isn't it weird to go into debt counting on loan forgiveness?

Why would it be weird?

Because you're taking out a loan with the knowledge that you're not going to pay it back and rely on forgiveness. Thought that was kind of self evident.

The incentive is specifically to encourage people to take specific courses of action, such as acquire a graduate degree and offer your services to organizations that might otherwise have difficulty competing for the talents of someone with this background.

Long before PSLF variations of the theme were used by communities to encourage young people to go to medical school and return to work in their underserved communities. The Military has also used variations of this model.

As with any deal, their are risk and trade offs that need to be considered.

pyramidenergy888 wrote:

A. Nony Mouse wrote:

pyramidenergy888 wrote:

Earlskies wrote:Given the past week and a half, I am apt to reconsider relying on PSLF.

Isn't it weird to go into debt counting on loan forgiveness?

Why would it be weird?

Because you're taking out a loan with the knowledge that you're not going to pay it back and rely on forgiveness. Thought that was kind of self evident.

If you can get it to work, doing so seems rational to me, not weird.

A. Nony Mouse wrote:

pyramidenergy888 wrote:

A. Nony Mouse wrote:

pyramidenergy888 wrote:

Earlskies wrote:Given the past week and a half, I am apt to reconsider relying on PSLF.

Isn't it weird to go into debt counting on loan forgiveness?

Why would it be weird?

Because you're taking out a loan with the knowledge that you're not going to pay it back and rely on forgiveness. Thought that was kind of self evident.

If you can get it to work, doing so seems rational to me, not weird.

Shouldn't you only take out loans if you can pay them back?

Not if the government is willing to forgive them for you.

When we're conditioned to be debt averse, taking on greater debt (even though you ideally won't be paying it back) can feel weird because it's going against our natural instincts.