PSLF going forward

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sparkytrainer

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Re: PSLF going forward

Postby sparkytrainer » Wed Dec 20, 2017 4:37 pm

ri.co wrote:
sparkytrainer wrote:
ri.co wrote:I am applying this cycle and have gotten a few acceptances so far (CUNY, Lewis and Clark, UC Irvine). However, my numbers aren't so hot (3.6, 155) so I am expecting skinny FinAid. This whole time I was pinning my bets on PSLF and according to this article even if the PROSPER bill passes it will only affect those who take out loans after 2019. Is this true? Hence, I should probably matriculate at the best-ranked law school that grants me an acceptance this cycle (to ensure I am grandfathered)?

https://www.usnews.com/education/blogs/ ... dent-loans


I would not expect being grandfathered in. The first people eligible under PLSF haven't even had their loans forgiven yet. Relying on PLSF going forward is a total risk.


This is the key part of the article I should have quoted:

Let's say you started borrowing for college prior to 2019. You could still receive a direct loan all the way through 2024, then enter public service, repay your loan for 10 years and still be eligible for forgiveness for the balance in 2034. If, however, you begin borrowing for college in 2019 or later, you would only be eligible for ONE loans and ineligible for PSLF.

So wouldn't there be more of a risk to wait until after 2019?


What I am saying is with republicans in control and them targeting PLSF, its probably unwise to rely on it existing in any form, even if you enroll in school next year.

Nebby

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Re: PSLF going forward

Postby Nebby » Wed Dec 20, 2017 4:41 pm

ri.co wrote:
sparkytrainer wrote:
ri.co wrote:I am applying this cycle and have gotten a few acceptances so far (CUNY, Lewis and Clark, UC Irvine). However, my numbers aren't so hot (3.6, 155) so I am expecting skinny FinAid. This whole time I was pinning my bets on PSLF and according to this article even if the PROSPER bill passes it will only affect those who take out loans after 2019. Is this true? Hence, I should probably matriculate at the best-ranked law school that grants me an acceptance this cycle (to ensure I am grandfathered)?

https://www.usnews.com/education/blogs/ ... dent-loans


I would not expect being grandfathered in. The first people eligible under PLSF haven't even had their loans forgiven yet. Relying on PLSF going forward is a total risk.


This is the key part of the article I should have quoted:

Let's say you started borrowing for college prior to 2019. You could still receive a direct loan all the way through 2024, then enter public service, repay your loan for 10 years and still be eligible for forgiveness for the balance in 2034. If, however, you begin borrowing for college in 2019 or later, you would only be eligible for ONE loans and ineligible for PSLF.

So wouldn't there be more of a risk to wait until after 2019?

It is a risk, but it would be unlikely that any future PSLF repeal would not have a grandfather clause.

ri.co

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Re: PSLF going forward

Postby ri.co » Wed Dec 20, 2017 4:45 pm

Yeah if I am understanding this grandfathering thing correctly I would need to have a loan to be grandfathered in? So if I wait until this bill is passed, then I wouldn't be eligible at all, right? So right now is less risk than waiting?

If anything I just need to make sure I only take loans that are eligible for PSLF right?

Nebby

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Re: PSLF going forward

Postby Nebby » Wed Dec 20, 2017 4:58 pm

ri.co wrote:Yeah if I am understanding this grandfathering thing correctly I would need to have a loan to be grandfathered in? So if I wait until this bill is passed, then I wouldn't be eligible at all, right? So right now is less risk than waiting?

If anything I just need to make sure I only take loans that are eligible for PSLF right?

Yes.

mjones765

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Re: PSLF going forward

Postby mjones765 » Fri Dec 22, 2017 12:14 pm

Quick Question on qualifying employment...

Does being a member of the state legislature qualify? I would think it would but I know that being a member of Congress does not qualify and I can't seem to find the answer anywhere. Anybody know?

Rigo

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Re: PSLF going forward

Postby Rigo » Fri Dec 22, 2017 12:21 pm

mjones765 wrote:Quick Question on qualifying employment...
Does being a member of the state legislature qualify? I would think it would but I know that being a member of Congress does not qualify and I can't seem to find the answer anywhere. Anybody know?

Not an answer, but that's not really a legal position is it?
And are you saying state over federal would count just because way less pay generally?

Nebby

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Re: PSLF going forward

Postby Nebby » Fri Dec 22, 2017 12:31 pm

mjones765 wrote:Quick Question on qualifying employment...

Does being a member of the state legislature qualify? I would think it would but I know that being a member of Congress does not qualify and I can't seem to find the answer anywhere. Anybody know?

No it does not qualify.

Nebby

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Re: PSLF going forward

Postby Nebby » Fri Dec 22, 2017 12:31 pm

Rigo wrote:
mjones765 wrote:Quick Question on qualifying employment...
Does being a member of the state legislature qualify? I would think it would but I know that being a member of Congress does not qualify and I can't seem to find the answer anywhere. Anybody know?

Not an answer, but that's not really a legal position is it?
And are you saying state over federal would count just because way less pay generally?

It doesn't matter if its legal. PSLF isn't just for lawyers. You're confusing PSLF with a LS' LRAP.

Rigo

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Re: PSLF going forward

Postby Rigo » Fri Dec 22, 2017 12:33 pm

Nebby wrote:
Rigo wrote:
mjones765 wrote:Quick Question on qualifying employment...
Does being a member of the state legislature qualify? I would think it would but I know that being a member of Congress does not qualify and I can't seem to find the answer anywhere. Anybody know?

Not an answer, but that's not really a legal position is it?
And are you saying state over federal would count just because way less pay generally?

It doesn't matter if its legal. PSLF isn't just for lawyers. You're confusing PSLF with a LS' LRAP.

Oh true.

mjones765

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Re: PSLF going forward

Postby mjones765 » Fri Dec 22, 2017 3:29 pm

Nebby wrote:
mjones765 wrote:Quick Question on qualifying employment...

Does being a member of the state legislature qualify? I would think it would but I know that being a member of Congress does not qualify and I can't seem to find the answer anywhere. Anybody know?

No it does not qualify.



Where did you get this from? I couldn't find it anywhere

Nebby

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Re: PSLF going forward

Postby Nebby » Fri Dec 22, 2017 4:06 pm

mjones765 wrote:
Nebby wrote:
mjones765 wrote:Quick Question on qualifying employment...

Does being a member of the state legislature qualify? I would think it would but I know that being a member of Congress does not qualify and I can't seem to find the answer anywhere. Anybody know?

No it does not qualify.

Where did you get this from? I couldn't find it anywhere

Common sense and basic legal reasoning skills.

PSLF qualifying employment requires one either work in (1) government, (2) 501(c)(3), or (3) other public interest work satisfying rigorously narrow requirements. An elected official is not the type of "government" position envisioned by the law, which envisions a civil servant, because an elected official is an inherently political position. That is why PSLF excludes members of Congress. For the same reason that members of Congress are excluded, a member of state legislature would likely be excluded because it is also an inherently political position. Therefore, it's likely that DOE would not certify a member of state legislature as qualifying employment. Furthermore, the qualifying employment must be "full time" and only 10 states have full time legislatures. So even if it was qualifying, it only would be so in those 10 states.

The contrary argument would be that, because the law does not specify members of state legislature but does specify members of Congress, then Congress did not intend to exclude members of state legislatures.

RedPurpleBlue

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Re: PSLF going forward

Postby RedPurpleBlue » Fri Dec 22, 2017 11:45 pm

Nebby wrote:
mjones765 wrote:
Nebby wrote:
mjones765 wrote:Quick Question on qualifying employment...

Does being a member of the state legislature qualify? I would think it would but I know that being a member of Congress does not qualify and I can't seem to find the answer anywhere. Anybody know?

No it does not qualify.

Where did you get this from? I couldn't find it anywhere

Common sense and basic legal reasoning skills.

PSLF qualifying employment requires one either work in (1) government, (2) 501(c)(3), or (3) other public interest work satisfying rigorously narrow requirements. An elected official is not the type of "government" position envisioned by the law, which envisions a civil servant, because an elected official is an inherently political position. That is why PSLF excludes members of Congress. For the same reason that members of Congress are excluded, a member of state legislature would likely be excluded because it is also an inherently political position. Therefore, it's likely that DOE would not certify a member of state legislature as qualifying employment. Furthermore, the qualifying employment must be "full time" and only 10 states have full time legislatures. So even if it was qualifying, it only would be so in those 10 states.

The contrary argument would be that, because the law does not specify members of state legislature but does specify members of Congress, then Congress did not intend to exclude members of state legislatures.


I find the contrary argument to be far more compelling. It doesn't seem like a stretch to say that the original legislation could have intended to exclude members of Congress because they make $174,000, and PSLF is meant for people who would be making far less while serving the public. Many state legislators pull in $50,000-$60,000/yr., and that seems much more like the income level that PSLF is trying to provide relief to.

Nebby

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Re: PSLF going forward

Postby Nebby » Sat Dec 23, 2017 12:25 am

"far more compelling" is a stretch but this has been a fun, albeit pointless, thought experiment

haus

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Re: PSLF going forward

Postby haus » Sat Dec 23, 2017 11:05 am

RedPurpleBlue wrote:that seems much more like the income level that PSLF is trying to provide relief to.

You should recall that PSLF is tied to income based repayment plans, so those making more money will pay more towards their loans, thus receiving less relief.

Law School Native

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Re: PSLF going forward

Postby Law School Native » Thu Jan 11, 2018 4:40 pm

Do you guys think serving my tribal government would count towards PSLF?

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A. Nony Mouse

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Re: PSLF going forward

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Thu Jan 11, 2018 5:14 pm


Law School Native

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Re: PSLF going forward

Postby Law School Native » Thu Jan 11, 2018 6:04 pm


Excellent! Thanks for the tip!

mjones765

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Re: PSLF going forward

Postby mjones765 » Mon Jan 22, 2018 10:12 am

Nebby wrote:
mjones765 wrote:
Nebby wrote:
mjones765 wrote:Quick Question on qualifying employment...

Does being a member of the state legislature qualify? I would think it would but I know that being a member of Congress does not qualify and I can't seem to find the answer anywhere. Anybody know?

No it does not qualify.

Where did you get this from? I couldn't find it anywhere

Common sense and basic legal reasoning skills.

PSLF qualifying employment requires one either work in (1) government, (2) 501(c)(3), or (3) other public interest work satisfying rigorously narrow requirements. An elected official is not the type of "government" position envisioned by the law, which envisions a civil servant, because an elected official is an inherently political position. That is why PSLF excludes members of Congress. For the same reason that members of Congress are excluded, a member of state legislature would likely be excluded because it is also an inherently political position. Therefore, it's likely that DOE would not certify a member of state legislature as qualifying employment. Furthermore, the qualifying employment must be "full time" and only 10 states have full time legislatures. So even if it was qualifying, it only would be so in those 10 states.

The contrary argument would be that, because the law does not specify members of state legislature but does specify members of Congress, then Congress did not intend to exclude members of state legislatures.




Your common sense and basic legal reasoning skills were incorrect, by the way.

From the fedloan servicing webpage..."NOTE: Service as an elected member of the United States Congress (a U.S. Senator or Representative) does not qualify. Congressional staff members and state legislators (and their staff) may qualify, except for any period of time that they are employed by a political campaign."

https://myfedloan.org/borrowers/special-programs/pslf

Nebby

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Re: PSLF going forward

Postby Nebby » Mon Jan 22, 2018 10:37 am

mjones765 wrote:
Nebby wrote:
mjones765 wrote:
Nebby wrote:
mjones765 wrote:Quick Question on qualifying employment...

Does being a member of the state legislature qualify? I would think it would but I know that being a member of Congress does not qualify and I can't seem to find the answer anywhere. Anybody know?

No it does not qualify.

Where did you get this from? I couldn't find it anywhere

Common sense and basic legal reasoning skills.

PSLF qualifying employment requires one either work in (1) government, (2) 501(c)(3), or (3) other public interest work satisfying rigorously narrow requirements. An elected official is not the type of "government" position envisioned by the law, which envisions a civil servant, because an elected official is an inherently political position. That is why PSLF excludes members of Congress. For the same reason that members of Congress are excluded, a member of state legislature would likely be excluded because it is also an inherently political position. Therefore, it's likely that DOE would not certify a member of state legislature as qualifying employment. Furthermore, the qualifying employment must be "full time" and only 10 states have full time legislatures. So even if it was qualifying, it only would be so in those 10 states.

The contrary argument would be that, because the law does not specify members of state legislature but does specify members of Congress, then Congress did not intend to exclude members of state legislatures.




Your common sense and basic legal reasoning skills were incorrect, by the way.

From the fedloan servicing webpage..."NOTE: Service as an elected member of the United States Congress (a U.S. Senator or Representative) does not qualify. Congressional staff members and state legislators (and their staff) may qualify, except for any period of time that they are employed by a political campaign."

https://myfedloan.org/borrowers/special-programs/pslf

"may"

mjones765

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Re: PSLF going forward

Postby mjones765 » Mon Jan 22, 2018 10:50 am

Nebby wrote:
mjones765 wrote:
Nebby wrote:
mjones765 wrote:
Nebby wrote:
mjones765 wrote:Quick Question on qualifying employment...

Does being a member of the state legislature qualify? I would think it would but I know that being a member of Congress does not qualify and I can't seem to find the answer anywhere. Anybody know?

No it does not qualify.

Where did you get this from? I couldn't find it anywhere

Common sense and basic legal reasoning skills.

PSLF qualifying employment requires one either work in (1) government, (2) 501(c)(3), or (3) other public interest work satisfying rigorously narrow requirements. An elected official is not the type of "government" position envisioned by the law, which envisions a civil servant, because an elected official is an inherently political position. That is why PSLF excludes members of Congress. For the same reason that members of Congress are excluded, a member of state legislature would likely be excluded because it is also an inherently political position. Therefore, it's likely that DOE would not certify a member of state legislature as qualifying employment. Furthermore, the qualifying employment must be "full time" and only 10 states have full time legislatures. So even if it was qualifying, it only would be so in those 10 states.

The contrary argument would be that, because the law does not specify members of state legislature but does specify members of Congress, then Congress did not intend to exclude members of state legislatures.




Your common sense and basic legal reasoning skills were incorrect, by the way.

From the fedloan servicing webpage..."NOTE: Service as an elected member of the United States Congress (a U.S. Senator or Representative) does not qualify. Congressional staff members and state legislators (and their staff) may qualify, except for any period of time that they are employed by a political campaign."

https://myfedloan.org/borrowers/special-programs/pslf

"may"


haha ok dude



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