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Re: T-14 LRAP Overview

Posted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 6:46 pm
by Nebby
Lol

Re: T-14 LRAP Overview

Posted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 6:48 pm
by Rigo
You are being a dick for really no reason Nebby.

Re: T-14 LRAP Overview

Posted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 7:25 pm
by Nebby
I know. Too much caffeine at work makes my irritable. Sorry for being an ass, 2017hopeful.

Re: T-14 LRAP Overview

Posted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 10:24 am
by Thelaw23
Nebby wrote:
20171lhopeful wrote:
Nebby wrote:
cavalier1138 wrote:
Rigo wrote:And please tell me to stfu if I have a completely flawed understanding. I spent hours researching this stuff since I was starting from a zero knowledge baseline (I didn't even know what the word amortization meant), but I could still be missing a fundamental concept.


You're correct about NYU's program. The non-PSLF version is almost exclusively for international work, because that's the main kind of PI that doesn't qualify for PSLF.

Yup.

I was being because I hate answering questions from posters who, had they read the respective LRAP policy, they would find the answer.


Yes, I could have read the whole term section in depth, but it's faster and easier to get a response through these channels, and it was. Next time, feel free not to respond.

Possible but not likely, just like entry level international PI employment

(I'll see myself out now)



:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Re: T-14 LRAP Overview

Posted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 7:35 pm
by Rigo
Bump bc awesome resource.

Re: T-14 LRAP Overview

Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 11:32 am
by brennakate
I'm having a heck of a time understanding the particulars of NYU's LRAP, and was hoping someone could help.

From the website: "The amount of debt qualifying for consideration by the Program (“Qualifying Debt”) is the lesser of: The original principal of the participant’s actual law school loans (“Actual Debt”), as defined above, or an amount equal to three years (six semesters) of the standard student expense budget less aid received and less the student contribution calculated according to NYU’s institutional formula (“Maximum LRAP-Eligible Debt”)"

According to my financial aid package, my "student contribution" is supposed to be ~$45,000 each year. I have almost no assets. Am I correct in my reading of the program, that this ~$135,000 is debt that is NOT eligible for LRAP forgiveness? I've sent two emails to financial aid but have not heard back, and have deposit deadlines from other schools coming up this week.

Also, I'm at a complete loss as to how their calculations indicate that I can swing this money out-of-pocket. The only thing I can think of is that I did not include parental assets on my financial aid application. I understood that this would preclude me from need-based scholarships, but had no idea that this would impact my eligibility for LRAP down the line.

Any insight/feedback y'all could provide is much appreciated!

Re: T-14 LRAP Overview

Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 11:54 am
by Leliana
brennakate wrote:According to my financial aid package, my "student contribution" is supposed to be ~$45,000 each year. I have almost no assets. Am I correct in my reading of the program, that this ~$135,000 is debt that is NOT eligible for LRAP forgiveness? I've sent two emails to financial aid but have not heard back, and have deposit deadlines from other schools coming up this week.

Also, I'm at a complete loss as to how their calculations indicate that I can swing this money out-of-pocket. The only thing I can think of is that I did not include parental assets on my financial aid application. I understood that this would preclude me from need-based scholarships, but had no idea that this would impact my eligibility for LRAP down the line.

Any insight/feedback y'all could provide is much appreciated!


0L here but I was at NYU's LRAP panel during ASW and they confirmed that the "student contribution" amount is not eligible for LRAP.

I think their office is super swamped right now, I haven't had success getting in touch with them via email lately. That does seem really high, though... :?

Re: T-14 LRAP Overview

Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 11:56 am
by Nebby
brennakate wrote:I'm having a heck of a time understanding the particulars of NYU's LRAP, and was hoping someone could help.

From the website: "The amount of debt qualifying for consideration by the Program (“Qualifying Debt”) is the lesser of: The original principal of the participant’s actual law school loans (“Actual Debt”), as defined above, or an amount equal to three years (six semesters) of the standard student expense budget less aid received and less the student contribution calculated according to NYU’s institutional formula (“Maximum LRAP-Eligible Debt”)"

According to my financial aid package, my "student contribution" is supposed to be ~$45,000 each year. I have almost no assets. Am I correct in my reading of the program, that this ~$135,000 is debt that is NOT eligible for LRAP forgiveness? I've sent two emails to financial aid but have not heard back, and have deposit deadlines from other schools coming up this week.

Also, I'm at a complete loss as to how their calculations indicate that I can swing this money out-of-pocket. The only thing I can think of is that I did not include parental assets on my financial aid application. I understood that this would preclude me from need-based scholarships, but had no idea that this would impact my eligibility for LRAP down the line.

Any insight/feedback y'all could provide is much appreciated!

You should call their LRAP person and not wait for email.

Re: T-14 LRAP Overview

Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 2:38 pm
by airwrecka
brennakate wrote:I'm having a heck of a time understanding the particulars of NYU's LRAP, and was hoping someone could help.

From the website: "The amount of debt qualifying for consideration by the Program (“Qualifying Debt”) is the lesser of: The original principal of the participant’s actual law school loans (“Actual Debt”), as defined above, or an amount equal to three years (six semesters) of the standard student expense budget less aid received and less the student contribution calculated according to NYU’s institutional formula (“Maximum LRAP-Eligible Debt”)"

According to my financial aid package, my "student contribution" is supposed to be ~$45,000 each year. I have almost no assets. Am I correct in my reading of the program, that this ~$135,000 is debt that is NOT eligible for LRAP forgiveness? I've sent two emails to financial aid but have not heard back, and have deposit deadlines from other schools coming up this week.

Also, I'm at a complete loss as to how their calculations indicate that I can swing this money out-of-pocket. The only thing I can think of is that I did not include parental assets on my financial aid application. I understood that this would preclude me from need-based scholarships, but had no idea that this would impact my eligibility for LRAP down the line.

Any insight/feedback y'all could provide is much appreciated!


Like Leliana said, at the Admitted Students Days, they confirmed student contribution is INeligible for LRAP. However, I have no idea how they could ever calculate your contribution to be $45000/year! I included my parents' info on the form and I still only had a $5000/year contribution. Definitely call and ask how they came to that number...

Re: T-14 LRAP Overview

Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 3:25 pm
by luckyirish13
brennakate wrote:$45,000 each year.
You sure it wasn't $4,500? The extra zero seems really excessive.

Re: T-14 LRAP Overview

Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 3:52 pm
by brennakate
luckyirish13 wrote:
brennakate wrote:$45,000 each year.
You sure it wasn't $4,500? The extra zero seems really excessive.


Very sure. I feel the same way.

Re: T-14 LRAP Overview

Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 4:09 pm
by Earlskies
Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't prior loans and law school loans get lumped together in PAYE or IBR?

I was looking at Michigan's LRAP and it mentions only covering MLaw loans. How would they differentiate the loans and payments for each?

Re: T-14 LRAP Overview

Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 4:41 pm
by Nebby
Earlskies wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't prior loans and law school loans get lumped together in PAYE or IBR?

I was looking at Michigan's LRAP and it mentions only covering MLaw loans. How would they differentiate the loans and payments for each?

Yes, they get lumped together in PAYE. Assuming the program requires you to get on PAYE, then they will pay the the PAYE monthly rate based on the proportion of law debt to total debt. So if your monthly PAYE bill is $300/month, and 2/3 of your debt is law, then your benefit is $200/month

Re: T-14 LRAP Overview

Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 4:58 pm
by cavalier1138
brennakate wrote:
luckyirish13 wrote:
brennakate wrote:$45,000 each year.
You sure it wasn't $4,500? The extra zero seems really excessive.


Very sure. I feel the same way.


Well, it can't be $4,500, because the lowest annual contribution is $5,000, regardless of income bracket. But I've literally never heard of someone being told their contribution was expected to be $45,000 annually. Are you sure it wasn't $45,000 total ($15,000 a year)? That would be much more in keeping with how they usually calculate the contribution.

Re: T-14 LRAP Overview

Posted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 1:53 pm
by tomgirl
cavalier1138 wrote:
brennakate wrote:
luckyirish13 wrote:
brennakate wrote:$45,000 each year.
You sure it wasn't $4,500? The extra zero seems really excessive.


Very sure. I feel the same way.


Well, it can't be $4,500, because the lowest annual contribution is $5,000, regardless of income bracket. But I've literally never heard of someone being told their contribution was expected to be $45,000 annually. Are you sure it wasn't $45,000 total ($15,000 a year)? That would be much more in keeping with how they usually calculate the contribution.


Because I'm an idiot when it comes to numbers, can someone do a breakdown of CLS vs NYU again? I've read all of the posts on this thread and still feel lost - dummy language would be so, so appreciated!

Re: T-14 LRAP Overview

Posted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 2:06 pm
by Nebby
The shortest answer is that CLS' LRAP is better than NYU

Re: T-14 LRAP Overview

Posted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 5:40 pm
by cavalier1138
Nebby wrote:The shortest answer is that CLS' LRAP is better than NYU


Pretty much this. CLS gives you more flexibility in choosing a payment plan. That's the major difference, but it's an important one.

Re: T-14 LRAP Overview

Posted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 6:07 pm
by Nebby
cavalier1138 wrote:
Nebby wrote:The shortest answer is that CLS' LRAP is better than NYU


Pretty much this. CLS gives you more flexibility in choosing a payment plan. That's the major difference, but it's an important one.

Plus, qualifying debt is all debt incurred to finance your law education up to the maximum amount allowed under CLS' cost of attendance calculation available on its financial aid. For NYU, the qualifying debt is the total cost of attendance debt MINUS an estimated student contribution. I.e., if you pulled out 200k to attend and as part of your initial financial aid package upon admission the school thought you could contribute 5k a year, that means the total covered debt is only 185k. At CLS, it would have been all 200k.

These are little differences, but they matter.

Re: T-14 LRAP Overview

Posted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 6:51 pm
by Kummel
Nebby wrote:
cavalier1138 wrote:
Nebby wrote:The shortest answer is that CLS' LRAP is better than NYU


Pretty much this. CLS gives you more flexibility in choosing a payment plan. That's the major difference, but it's an important one.

Plus, qualifying debt is all debt incurred to finance your law education up to the maximum amount allowed under CLS' cost of attendance calculation available on its financial aid. For NYU, the qualifying debt is the total cost of attendance debt MINUS an estimated student contribution. I.e., if you pulled out 200k to attend and as part of your initial financial aid package upon admission the school thought you could contribute 5k a year, that means the total covered debt is only 185k. At CLS, it would have been all 200k.

These are little differences, but they matter.


Yeah I didn't think 15k minimum was a little difference. Plus NYU has that 20k net asset cap which to me makes zero sense. Though I give NYU props for including 10k bar loan and a 2k computer loan in LRAP, both of which CLS does not cover (though the first two points make CLS LRAP far superior imho).

Re: T-14 LRAP Overview

Posted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 6:58 pm
by cavalier1138
DCfilterDC wrote:
Nebby wrote:
cavalier1138 wrote:
Nebby wrote:The shortest answer is that CLS' LRAP is better than NYU


Pretty much this. CLS gives you more flexibility in choosing a payment plan. That's the major difference, but it's an important one.

Plus, qualifying debt is all debt incurred to finance your law education up to the maximum amount allowed under CLS' cost of attendance calculation available on its financial aid. For NYU, the qualifying debt is the total cost of attendance debt MINUS an estimated student contribution. I.e., if you pulled out 200k to attend and as part of your initial financial aid package upon admission the school thought you could contribute 5k a year, that means the total covered debt is only 185k. At CLS, it would have been all 200k.

These are little differences, but they matter.


Yeah I didn't think 15k minimum was a little difference. Plus NYU has that 20k net asset cap which to me makes zero sense. Though I give NYU props for including 10k bar loan and a 2k computer loan in LRAP, both of which CLS does not cover (though the first two points make CLS LRAP far superior imho).


The net asset cap includes your loans. So you'd have to make a ton of money to hit the mark.

Re: T-14 LRAP Overview

Posted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 7:05 pm
by Kummel
cavalier1138 wrote:
DCfilterDC wrote:
Nebby wrote:
cavalier1138 wrote:
Nebby wrote:The shortest answer is that CLS' LRAP is better than NYU


Pretty much this. CLS gives you more flexibility in choosing a payment plan. That's the major difference, but it's an important one.

Plus, qualifying debt is all debt incurred to finance your law education up to the maximum amount allowed under CLS' cost of attendance calculation available on its financial aid. For NYU, the qualifying debt is the total cost of attendance debt MINUS an estimated student contribution. I.e., if you pulled out 200k to attend and as part of your initial financial aid package upon admission the school thought you could contribute 5k a year, that means the total covered debt is only 185k. At CLS, it would have been all 200k.

These are little differences, but they matter.


Yeah I didn't think 15k minimum was a little difference. Plus NYU has that 20k net asset cap which to me makes zero sense. Though I give NYU props for including 10k bar loan and a 2k computer loan in LRAP, both of which CLS does not cover (though the first two points make CLS LRAP far superior imho).


The net asset cap includes your loans. So you'd have to make a ton of money to hit the mark.


You're thinking year 1. But year 8-10 of LRAP, or even just year 10. Can't put away for a house down payment, can't really accumulate much long-term. Not to mention jointly with your spouse, if applicable.

Re: T-14 LRAP Overview

Posted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 7:36 pm
by cavalier1138
DCfilterDC wrote:
cavalier1138 wrote:
DCfilterDC wrote:
Nebby wrote:
cavalier1138 wrote:
Nebby wrote:The shortest answer is that CLS' LRAP is better than NYU


Pretty much this. CLS gives you more flexibility in choosing a payment plan. That's the major difference, but it's an important one.

Plus, qualifying debt is all debt incurred to finance your law education up to the maximum amount allowed under CLS' cost of attendance calculation available on its financial aid. For NYU, the qualifying debt is the total cost of attendance debt MINUS an estimated student contribution. I.e., if you pulled out 200k to attend and as part of your initial financial aid package upon admission the school thought you could contribute 5k a year, that means the total covered debt is only 185k. At CLS, it would have been all 200k.

These are little differences, but they matter.


Yeah I didn't think 15k minimum was a little difference. Plus NYU has that 20k net asset cap which to me makes zero sense. Though I give NYU props for including 10k bar loan and a 2k computer loan in LRAP, both of which CLS does not cover (though the first two points make CLS LRAP far superior imho).


The net asset cap includes your loans. So you'd have to make a ton of money to hit the mark.


You're thinking year 1. But year 8-10 of LRAP, or even just year 10. Can't put away for a house down payment, can't really accumulate much long-term. Not to mention jointly with your spouse, if applicable.


Unless you're paying the debt down on the non-PSLF plan, that's still not going to be that much of an issue. You'll actually have more debt in year 8 than year 1 under an IBR or PAYE plan.

Re: T-14 LRAP Overview

Posted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 7:41 pm
by Kummel
cavalier1138 wrote:
Unless you're paying the debt down on the non-PSLF plan, that's still not going to be that much of an issue. You'll actually have more debt in year 8 than year 1 under an IBR or PAYE plan.


Ah sorry forgot they require you to be on the PSLF plan.

Re: T-14 LRAP Overview

Posted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 8:17 pm
by Monday
.

Re: T-14 LRAP Overview

Posted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 5:51 am
by cavalier1138
Monday wrote:For the schools that cover employment outside of 501(c)(3) and the government (HYS, Columbia, Michigan, and Penn), it should be noted that the LRAP awards for those graduates will be taxed.

Yale: No supplemental award to offset the taxed amount (the students and alumni's petition to reinstate supplement is currently pending)
Stanford: "To the extent possible, the law school will supplement the LRAP benefit"
Harvard: "In those instances, the LIPP award includes an additional 25% allowance"
Columbia: Nothing. Cue: The Apology of Nebby.
Penn: "The TolLRAP Counselor will review applications for additional assistance based on these tax consequences on a case by case basis"
Michigan: I don't see the LRAP policy online. The FAQs and the PPT do not address this issue.


I'd take Michigan and Penn off the list, since they require IBR, which means it doesn't matter if the school technically covers a non-PSLF job.

And just to clarify the above convo: NYU does have a non-PSLF plan, but you have to do the IBR/PSLF route if you're eligible. I don't know the tax situation for NYU's non-PSLF plan, but since they don't mention it, I think it probably gets added in.