Asking for more money, did I do it wrong? Forum

[HolleeB]

Any suggestions on what to do next?

Loyola Financial Aid Office,
 
I want to thank you for your acceptance as well as the gracious offer of $96,000.  While I am still considering other establishments I would like to affirm that because of its location, ranking, and practical training, Loyola is one of my preferred choices, and my likely pursuit.  I have visited your campus and found it friendly and charming.  Being in downtown LA means your close to where I plan on moving when I return from my sabbatical.  In 2012 you were on the cusp of becoming a tier 1 establishment, and I had hopes that you will be by the time I graduate.  Your interest in teaching both practically and classically makes me excited to learn, and grateful for the skill set I will leave with.
 
I do have a few concerns however.  I am aware of the recent drop in ranking, as well as what ways the scoring has changed.  Employment rates are a very important aspect I am considering when I made my final decision.  Being placed at 68, leaves me less hopeful that I will be graduating from a “Tier One” school, and make employment that much more difficult than if I am accepted and attend a tier one school.
 
I have received a full-scholarship to Chapman University, and while their ranking isn’t as high as yours, the idea of leaving law school debt free is very appealing.  I have not yet heard back from Southwestern although I’m likely also getting accepted with a decent scholarship as well.  While you outrank these establishments in many ways, finances are still a large concern of mine, one of which they are currently remedying.
 
I was curious as to know if there was any way to increase the scholarship amount.  Is there a way to remove the stipulation as well?  I don’t suspect that I will fall below the top 45% however I don’t want a year’s tuition riding on that.  Either or both of these things would my decision process a lot easier.
I would be happy to pay my seat deposit to demonstrate the seriousness of my interest.  Please let me know if you have any questions.
 
Thank you,


Re:


Ms. B,
 
Congratulations, on receiving our highest partial offer!  We are pleased to count you among this select group.  (We cannot change your award nor the renewal criteria.)
 
Let us know if you have any other questions?

[dirtrida2]

Seems like they wouldn't negotiate either way... but yes, I think you did it wrong.

Casually bashing the schools ranking and/or employment numbers is never a good idea.

[06162014123]

.

[dirtrida2]

Ill share with you mine:

Dear XXXXX,

I was excited to receive your acceptance phone-call last week, awarding me an annual scholarship of $XX,XXX, as XXXXX School of Law remains one of my top choices. However, as I do not anticipate being eligible for need based grants, the availability of merit aid will be an important factor in my decision. I am writing to request a possible reconsideration of my award; here are my current options.

XXXXXX School - $XX,XXX a year | $XX,XXX yearly tuition | XX Stipulation.
XXXXXX School - $XX,XXX a year | $XX,XXX yearly tuition | XX Stipulation.

I understand that there are limited funds and I am grateful for any consideration that the admissions committee can give to my request. While I have been awarded a very generous scholarship, I also understand the high costs of living accompanied with city-life. Unfortunately, unlike XXXXX School, I would not have the luxury of commuting from home. While I love the area and the schools XXXXX law reputation, it is imperative that I heavily base my admissions decision off the total cost of attendance. I am, very much looking forward to visiting the school as soon as I can afford to take some time off work. I just acquired a new position at XXXXX; I am working there as an office admin while also maintaining my law internship. If the right pieces fall into place, I would find great enjoyment in becoming a XXXXX law student.

I appreciate your time and thank you for your assistance,

Sincerely,
XXXX XXXXXXXX

[LittleTree]

Yeah, I think you went about it very poorly. You have typos, you bash their school, and you cite rankings as though they're equivalent to employment numbers but don't actually just cite those. If employment and debt are a big deal, tell the dean how much debt you'd be graduating with and what might make it reasonable. If I had read this letter, as a dean, I would have been pissed because it boils down to "I think your school is bad so give me more money."

Instead, your letter should make a case for why the school IS a good fit for you and why you think their specific program/setting/whatever really makes it the place you want to be. Think of how much more inclined this dean and his fin. aid committee would be to help you out if the letter read came across as "hey bro I love your school and I really want to end up here but because of a bunch of other factors including this full ride I got at chapman I'm getting pulled in another direction. Look man, I seriously love you and my specific skill set of XYZ crap is gonna make your school bomb and your programs of XYZ are gonna make me shine. We're a match made in heaven - please I need more money."

I think the most important part of the letter is that it should be genuine. I'm not the best writer in the world, but I was always taught to be genuine and make a point. When I read

"While I am still considering other establishments I would like to affirm that because of its location, ranking, and practical training, Loyola is one of my preferred choices, and my likely pursuit. I have visited your campus and found it friendly and charming. Being in downtown LA means your close to where I plan on moving when I return from my sabbatical. In 2012 you were on the cusp of becoming a tier 1 establishment, and I had hopes that you will be by the time I graduate. Your interest in teaching both practically and classically makes me excited to learn, and grateful for the skill set I will leave with."

I end up thinking that all that is just boiler plate, soundbite crap.

This is just my two cents and I wish you the best of luck -- the truly genuine approach has really worked for me when negotiating. I think the deans like to be treated like people every once in a while.

As a little aside, call and ask if you can speak to the dean or to someone in the financial aid committee. If you have a strong, genuine reason for wanting but also DESERVING more money then it should be easy to make on the phone and, I think, much more persuasive.

GOOD LUCK!

[canarykb]

I'm impressed with the self restraint of the person responding to your email. Do you think they are unaware of their drop in rankings? Do you think they actually care about your analysis of their school vs. the others?

dirtrida2 basically got it right. These emails should be short, clear, and polite. You should 1) Express your strong interest in attending the school 2) State that finances are an important to you 3) Let them know your other offers 4) Thank them for their time. Anything else is just wasting the admin's time (and most likely annoying them in the process).

ETA: I'm not speaking as someone who has negotiated for money myself, but from the perspective of working as an admin asst. and dealing with people's self important emails.

[HolleeB]

yikes! I really thought I was being formal, but I can totally see the bitchiness in it now.

Is there a next step, or am I kind of SOL for doing so badly with the first go of it?

[dirtrida2]

yikes! I really thought I was being formal, but I can totally see the bitchiness in it now.

Is there a next step, or am I kind of SOL for doing so badly with the first go of it?

SOL

Doesn't seem like they are willing to negotiate anyhow.

[slawww]

With all due respect, that was awful. You essentially insulted their school, and you expected them to give you more money?

[dirtrida2]

With all due respect, that was awful. You essentially insulted their school, and you expected them to give you more money?

+1

"Being placed at 68, leaves me less hopeful that I will be graduating from a “Tier One” school, and make employment that much more difficult than if I am accepted and attend a tier one school."

Dafuq? lol.

[Hutz_and_Goodman]

Poorly written and insulting. A scholarship negotiation request should be a) well written b) flattering of the school c) explaining why you want to go to their school d) explaining other financial offers that are better but that school is not as appealing e) listing, without bragging, a couple of qualities not evident from your application that you bring to their school.

If the OP isn't a joke, this is really a bad example, and you're lucky they didn't withdraw the offer.

[Hutz_and_Goodman]

Loyola Financial Aid Office,

I want to thank you for your acceptance as well as the gracious offer of $96,000. While I am still considering other establishments (wtf, a law school is not an establishment) I would like to affirm that because of its location, ranking, and practical training, Loyola is one of my preferred choices (no, not one of, your top choice), and my likely pursuit. I have visited your campus and found it friendly (a campus cannot be friendly, a person or animal can be (living creature)) and charming. Being in downtown LA means your (you're) close to where I plan on moving when I return from my sabbatical. (note: you have just taken an entire year to travel and not work, and you are asking them to give you more money) In 2012 you were on the cusp of becoming a tier 1 establishment, and I had hopes that you will be by the time I graduate. (wtf wtf wtf) Your interest in teaching both practically and classically makes me excited to learn, and grateful for the skill set I will leave with.(you are writing this an administrator; that person doesn't teach)

I do have a few concerns however. I am aware of the recent drop in ranking, as well as what ways the scoring has changed. Employment rates are a very important aspect I am considering when I made my final decision. Being placed at 68, leaves me less hopeful that I will be graduating from a “Tier One” school, and make employment that much more difficult than if I am accepted and attend a tier one school. (wtf wtf wtf this whole paragraph)

I have received a full-scholarship to Chapman University, and while their ranking isn’t as high as yours, the idea of leaving law school debt free is very appealing. I have not yet heard back from Southwestern although I’m likely also getting accepted with a decent scholarship as well. While you outrank these establishments in many ways, finances are still a large concern of mine, one of which they are currently remedying. (this is the only paragraph that is not horribly bad)

I was curious as to know if there was any way to increase the scholarship amount. (poorly written; also note: you give them absolutely no reason to do this, except that you want it. what are you offering them? why do they want you as a student) Is there a way to remove the stipulation as well? I don’t suspect that I will fall below the top 45% however I don’t want a year’s tuition riding on that. (lol, based on what reasons?) Either or both of these things would my decision process a lot easier.
I would be happy to pay my seat deposit to demonstrate the seriousness of my interest. Please let me know if you have any questions.

Thank you,

[JaviSTB]

Loyola Financial Aid Office,

I want to thank you for your acceptance as well as the gracious offer of $96,000. While I am still considering other establishments (wtf, a law school is not an establishment) I would like to affirm that because of its location, ranking, and practical training, Loyola is one of my preferred choices (no, not one of, your top choice), and my likely pursuit. I have visited your campus and found it friendly (a campus cannot be friendly, a person or animal can be (living creature)) and charming. Being in downtown LA means your (you're) close to where I plan on moving when I return from my sabbatical. (note: you have just taken an entire year to travel and not work, and you are asking them to give you more money) In 2012 you were on the cusp of becoming a tier 1 establishment, and I had hopes that you will be by the time I graduate. (wtf wtf wtf) Your interest in teaching both practically and classically makes me excited to learn, and grateful for the skill set I will leave with.(you are writing this an administrator; that person doesn't teach)

I do have a few concerns however. I am aware of the recent drop in ranking, as well as what ways the scoring has changed. Employment rates are a very important aspect I am considering when I made my final decision. Being placed at 68, leaves me less hopeful that I will be graduating from a “Tier One” school, and make employment that much more difficult than if I am accepted and attend a tier one school. (wtf wtf wtf this whole paragraph)

I have received a full-scholarship to Chapman University, and while their ranking isn’t as high as yours, the idea of leaving law school debt free is very appealing. I have not yet heard back from Southwestern although I’m likely also getting accepted with a decent scholarship as well. While you outrank these establishments in many ways, finances are still a large concern of mine, one of which they are currently remedying. (this is the only paragraph that is not horribly bad)

I was curious as to know if there was any way to increase the scholarship amount. (poorly written; also note: you give them absolutely no reason to do this, except that you want it. what are you offering them? why do they want you as a student) Is there a way to remove the stipulation as well? I don’t suspect that I will fall below the top 45% however I don’t want a year’s tuition riding on that. (lol, based on what reasons?) Either or both of these things would my decision process a lot easier.
I would be happy to pay my seat deposit to demonstrate the seriousness of my interest. Please let me know if you have any questions.

Thank you,

+1 Seriously OP, when negotiating for more money, you're not supposed to make it superficial or an attack at the school. What everyone has said above is true. When requesting more aid think of the two cliche phrases, "don't bite the hand that feeds you," and "you can attract more flies with honey..."

Furthermore, your whole letter reeks of just deciding to go to a LS based on its ranking, or possible ranking. It doesn't deal with any reason why you want to attend Loyola. The person that responded to you acted more professional than probably most people would have after reading that negotiation letter.

[IAFG]

Had to check date on OP for potential April Fools hijinks.

[Emma.]

Had to check date on OP for potential April Fools hijinks.

Lol. Pretty amazing.

[JaviSTB]

Had to check date on OP for potential April Fools hijinks.

and yet, it was before April fools, I guess there are people who are just bad at negotiating.

[WahooLaw24]

Of possibly even more concern here is the fact that OP seems way too interested in whether Loyola cracks the top 50 in US News.

[Big Dog]

Employment rates are a very important aspect I am considering when I made my final decision.

This statement (and par) was probably the killer. Instead of telling them what is wrong with their school (so they need to buy you with more money), extoll their virtues and why it is a good fit for you. Then, cover the COA part. btw: you don't need to tell them that city life is expensive, as if they don't know -- it comes across as insulting.

I have received a full-scholarship to Chapman University, and while their ranking isn’t as high as yours,

Mistake to mention rankings. It makes you look like a prestige-whore. That sentence would be fine without the parenthetical. If you haven't heard from SW, don't be so arrogant as to assume free money.

While you outrank these establishments in many ways, finances are still a large concern of mine, one of which they are currently remedying.

Huh? What is up with 'establishment'? And who is remedying what? This sentence makes no sense, and is unclear. Is SW remedying your concerns? Are the finances remedying themselves?

[BigZuck]

A strong arm "your school has fallen in the rankings, the other higher ranked schools I have been accepted to have better job prospects, give me more money or I will withdraw" tactic has worked for at least one TLSer at a T18 school this cycle. Depends on the school/person reading the letter.

But agreed, the OP probably should not have gone about it this way.

[TheNextAmendment]

Not only are you extremely lucky they didn't rescind their scholarship offer to you...you are lucky they didn't take back their entire acceptance offer. You sir, are blessed.

edit- madam

[toothbrush]

ugh. I skimmed your letter then read the deans and went " wow what an ass". then i read some comments. then i read the whole letter you wrote.

wow.

[qwertyboard]

this should be a sticky... how NOT to ask for more money.

[RELIC]

This whole letter made me -

[Purplebook]

My favorite part is "In 2012 you were on the cusp of becoming a tier 1 establishment, and I had hopes that you will be by the time I graduate."

[whereskyle]

Dear OP, I'm sorry you're getting bashed. They didn't withdraw the offer, so it's all good! This sort of mistake is the source of a lesson. That is all.